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Thursday, November 13, 2008

Re: [AlpacaTalk] A new thread put on your thinking caps and let your imaginations fly!!!

I have a what if, too!

What if membership dues for AOBA were structured like they are for....
say.... the National Cattlemen's Beef Association (since there's been a
beef group model out there already).
1-50 head = $50
51-100 head = $80
101-250 head = $120
251-500 head = $200
501-1000 head = $300 + fair share*
1001-1500 head = $450 + fair share*
1501 & up = $600 + fair share*
Fair share is an additional fee of $.20 per cow/calf, $.10 per stocker

Maybe our AOBA dues should be more of a sliding scale. Say:
1-50 head = $50
51-100 head = $100
101-250 head = $250
251-500 head = $500
501-1000 head = $1000
1001-1500 head = $1500
1501 & up = $3000
I wonder how or if that would change the total dues remitted to AOBA? I
could definitely live with $50 annual dues, especially if it included
show division membership. In fact, I think show division membership
ought to be included with any farm membership. Do away with that as a
separate fee altogether.

I also think that leads should be available to all members after 30
days no matter what your level of membership. And the "little guy"
should not have to pay double for leads!

Participation in the FRG should also be on a sliding scale. All
opportunities should be on a sliding scale for fees! Of course many of
us, no matter how low the cost, will never be able to afford 10 or more
pages of advertising in the Herdsire edition. And we probably won't
have that many sires to market, either!

AOBA can definitely do a lot to make it easier for more members to
participate in the marketing opportunities.

Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Creswell, OR

541.895.0964

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
http://www.whitelotusalpacas.com
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join

On Nov 13, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Allison Moss-Fritch wrote:

>
>
> I'm up for a calm game of "What if".
>
> What if I were on the AOBA Marketing Committee..
>
> I would like to offer a smorgasbord of services.some very pricy and
> some
> quite inexpensive..aimed at different sizes and ages of farm...each
> bundle
> of services designed to help these small or large farms sell to their
> appropriate size and location market. Maybe a 4 state package of only
> those
> names of people who have asked to see alpacas.as leads within 50
> miles of
> point X .where a very small, very new farm is making its start.
>
> I would like to see some services developed to support new breeders,
> whether
> they are multipliers, seedstock growers, or breeders. Perhaps there
> could
> be some "scholarships" offered both to national and local AOBA
> certified
> shows..by "lottery" a winner farm could be chosen. Categories for
> farms in
> business less than X years or having only X or less alpacas.
>
> I would like to see where larger farms might choose a few very new or
> very
> small farms and nominate them to receive some "free or discount"
> services..like a couple of show entries and a pen for the nicest
> newbie farm
> that has not yet shown.a "gift of AOBA" and the mentor farm or farms
> that
> will host and assist them with their first show.
>
> I just might like to see each show choose blind, from a business card
> pool,
> for instance, a small and a large farm as "queen and/or king" of the
> show.
> Maybe they get a banner by ringside.and everyone who puts in a
> business card
> pays $5.00 to the pool to buy the sponsorship. Monies going to help
> defray
> show costs.
>
> See..there are ways to help even the smallest and newest farms.as
> well as
> the larger more established ones.and without playing favorites or
> costing a
> mint.
>
> I would love to see a farm offer to bring its most recent alpaca
> purchasing
> farm to a show..and share a pen for that newest animal...with a
> Banner for
> their pen as a "new owner gift". There are other ways one could
> support
> smaller or youger farms.and there are ways that don't hurt, might
> help the
> older, more established farms.
>
> I still think that any "established or large" farm that fails to see
> the
> connection between new alpaca purchasers and feeder farms (new,
> small, or
> young) to support their sales.is being shortsighted.
>
> New or Small farms need some services tailored to fit their needs and
> pocket
> books.and those sales can still be a good support to AOBA's marketing
> energies.
>
> AND YES>.it would help us if the AOBA BOD spent some
> effort/time/budget in
> building a brand that was recognizable by the consuming public .so
> that the
> name "AMERICAN ALPACA EXCELLENCE" (or whatever.CERTIFIED AMERICAN
> ALPACA
> FIBER, for that matter.) meant to the buying public that they were
> buying a
> dependable American grown/ made product line that meant top quality
> at a
> fair value.
>
> And, no, that does not mean alpacas as meat.
>
> Allison Moss-Fritch

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[AlpacaTalk] A new thread put on your thinking caps and let your imaginations fly!!!



I'm up for a calm game of "What if".

What if I were on the AOBA Marketing Committee..

I would like to offer a smorgasbord of services.some very pricy and some
quite inexpensive..aimed at different sizes and ages of farm...each bundle
of services designed to help these small or large farms sell to their
appropriate size and location market. Maybe a 4 state package of only those
names of people who have asked to see alpacas.as leads within 50 miles of
point X .where a very small, very new farm is making its start.

I would like to see some services developed to support new breeders, whether
they are multipliers, seedstock growers, or breeders. Perhaps there could
be some "scholarships" offered both to national and local AOBA certified
shows..by "lottery" a winner farm could be chosen. Categories for farms in
business less than X years or having only X or less alpacas.

I would like to see where larger farms might choose a few very new or very
small farms and nominate them to receive some "free or discount"
services..like a couple of show entries and a pen for the nicest newbie farm
that has not yet shown.a "gift of AOBA" and the mentor farm or farms that
will host and assist them with their first show.

I just might like to see each show choose blind, from a business card pool,
for instance, a small and a large farm as "queen and/or king" of the show.
Maybe they get a banner by ringside.and everyone who puts in a business card
pays $5.00 to the pool to buy the sponsorship. Monies going to help defray
show costs.

See..there are ways to help even the smallest and newest farms.as well as
the larger more established ones.and without playing favorites or costing a
mint.

I would love to see a farm offer to bring its most recent alpaca purchasing
farm to a show..and share a pen for that newest animal...with a Banner for
their pen as a "new owner gift". There are other ways one could support
smaller or youger farms.and there are ways that don't hurt, might help the
older, more established farms.

I still think that any "established or large" farm that fails to see the
connection between new alpaca purchasers and feeder farms (new, small, or
young) to support their sales.is being shortsighted.

New or Small farms need some services tailored to fit their needs and pocket
books.and those sales can still be a good support to AOBA's marketing
energies.

AND YES>.it would help us if the AOBA BOD spent some effort/time/budget in
building a brand that was recognizable by the consuming public .so that the
name "AMERICAN ALPACA EXCELLENCE" (or whatever.CERTIFIED AMERICAN ALPACA
FIBER, for that matter.) meant to the buying public that they were buying a
dependable American grown/ made product line that meant top quality at a
fair value.

And, no, that does not mean alpacas as meat.

Allison Moss-Fritch

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Sent to Alpaca site...held, not posted by site...

Oh my dear Lord.? I can't believe people are trying to insinuate that anyone is pushing a meat adjenda with the "certified angus beef" analogy used in that Blast.??

Several years ago I volunteered to help out AFCNA in whatever way I could.? The thing they "assigned" me was working on the "Alpaca Mark", which was modeled after Australia's Wool Mark.? Has anyone heard of Wool Mark?? I surely hadn't.? If AOBA had put "Create a national end production marketing? program similar to Wool Mark"? people would have said - what the h*ll is wool mark?? They put a marketing program every American can relate to and they still get grief.

AOBA is damned if they do, and damned if they don't.?

Heidi Christensen
WingNut Farm Alpacas
Graham WA
(253) 846-2168 or (253) 592-0200
www.wingnut-alpacas.com

-----Original Message-----
From: libby@alpacafarm.com
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:22 pm
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Sent to Alpaca site...held, not posted by site...

Heather,

Look at the bottom of the e-mail blast re: Affiliate Congress. It's
tucked away at the bottom of that e-mail with no mention of the subject in
the subject line. You can read it there.

Libby

Libby Forstner
Magical Farms, Inc.
Litchfield Ohio
(330)667-3233

Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com>
Sent by: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
11/13/2008 11:00 AM
Please respond to
AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com

To
AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
cc

Subject
Re: [AlpacaTalk] Sent to Alpaca site...held, not posted by site...

I can't believe it, Allison, but I guess I missed that eblast. I got
the one about shutting down the affiliate congress, was there a new
one?

As far as the meat references go, well did everyone know that their
beloved Ian Watt (now AOBA board member) has long been a proponent of
an alpaca meat industry in Australia, and also feels that there should
be one in the US?

Just asking.
Heather

On Nov 13, 2008, at 12:46 AM, Allison Moss-Fritch wrote:

>
>
> Hello all,
>
> First off.I like Satsuma Tangerines if anyone is throwing something.
>
> WHOA folks..back down from DEFCOM 000!
>
> While I too am somewhat surprised by the short "Blast".from the
> B.O.D., I
> see it as well within their chartered duties to plan and then execute
> that
> plan. They are a new BOD; we should accord them a chance to show us
> what
> they have in mind. I am in favor of giving them a fair chance to get
> things going. I would appreciate a little more public discussion just
> because feelings are running unnaturally high and have been the last
> few
> years.even if the BOD knows where they are going, ample notice to the
> membership is never a wasted keystroke.
>
> I don't have enough information on what went into the plan yet to
> evaluate
> whether it shows or does not show the input which was programmed.
> What we
> have is a conclusion or summary.does not tell us where it came
> from.and only
> is a map to where it intends to go.
>
> As for the "like Angus Beef"..I think, in context, that this is
> supposed
> only to demonstrate a branding of a greater quality product being
> marketed
> within a larger market..like "Pure Lambswool" is marketed within the
> International Wool Markets.
>
> The unappetizing idea of well BBQ'd alpaca is unfortunate.but I
> believe,
> unintentional.
>
> I have been involved in a meat industry in my youth. No sane person
> markets
> their older animals as meat..even in a meat market situation those
> older
> animals are what is called "cutter/canner".and it is the lowest grade
> of
> meat production. It is usually intended to lessen a loss on an
> otherwise
> untenable financial situation for the shepherd in a shorter lived
> species
> where the older animal is not producing, is eating, is failing and
> cannot be
> made into a viable business.so goes to slaughter.
>
> Actual meat animals are usually immature males or geldings. (very
> early
> gelded) and slaughtered before 18 months because older "sexed" meat
> has an
> unpleasant strong taste. If you have a 1000 lb steer, it is a young
> animal..if you have a 2,500 lb bull that now is not producing.you have
> either a lot of salami or a lot of dog food!
>
> We have a market for our cria and tui fleece animals.even males.and
> they can
> be in fiber herds for several years thereafter. So as a practical
> matter.there is not a market that can compete with their value as
> fiber
> animals when they are young.and they don't taste like much old. As a
> practicality, that limits the "meat market".and I would not worry
> much about
> it with this BOD notwithstanding the idea that at some time we might
> have to
> mature into a market that realized some animals might indeed end up
> in the
> slaughter house. That is a reality even now for a very few animals,
> unfortunately. It is not however, nor is it likely to become in the
> near
> future.a thriving competitive meat market in older, alpacas.
>
> Now, let us please settle down and let the BOD have a chance to
> "flesh out"
> their ideas (not BBQ them, mind you).we elected them and we need to
> give
> them a chance to do what it is that they have been elected to do.
> That will
> take time---and yes, it takes a plan of where they intend to go.
>
> I do think that they have a very full plate of items that need tending
> to..and they know it. Restoring the trust level of the membership, as
> we
> can see, is a critical goal on that plate. I would like to see us
> back down
> from ATOM and BRAVO back to CHARLIE or DUFUS levels of alarm. We have
> lived
> too long under the maudlin fear mongering of our own minds----time
> for 3
> deep breaths and the mantra: "This ..*&#$%*(*&)($%#@ is not worth our
> first
> heart attack"
>
> I don't like the feeling that our membership is becoming a pack of
> pit bulls
> with tetanus! So.I'm trying a little levity! Come on folks, first the
> deep
> breaths.then LAUGH!!!!
>
> Allison Moss-Fritch
>
> New Moon Alpacas
>
> Santa Clara, CA
>
> http://www.newmoonalpacas.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Old Boys Club

Bitching. Is that as rude as you can be? I'm sure you've got better
stuff in you.

Please, by all means everyone, be as demeaning as possible to those who
voice concern and dissatisfaction with organization that are members
of.

What do you all find so terrible about actually talking about problems
in an organization and trying to create change? You are all really
starting to piss me off. Rosa Parks was tired ad refused to go to the
back of the bus. She should have just shut up and given her seat to
that white businessman half her age. Cesar Chavez should have just shut
up and stopped complaining. All those migrant farm workers should have
just, what gone back to Mexico? Who'd pick your grapes then?

I AM A MEMBER OF AOBA! I CAN SPEAK ABOUT WHAT I FEEL IS WRONG WITH
AOBA! I CAN DO MY PART IN MY OWN WAY TO CREATE A CHANGE FOR THE BETTER,
FOR A FAIRER SYSTEM TO BENEFIT ALL MEMBERS!

If you don't like it, don't read it. Stick your head in the sand. Be
satisfied with the taking away of benefits every year. Don't answer
your AOBA polls. Move to Stepford.

Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Creswell, OR

541.895.0964

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
http://www.whitelotusalpacas.com
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join

On Nov 13, 2008, at 7:07 PM, Radched@aol.com wrote:

>
> People are upset about how things are run in AOBA and talk about the
> Aussie's forming a second group because of the same reasons.? But all
> people in the US do is bi*ch on yahoo groups.? I?can find absolutely
> no way?that can be productive.
>
> If someone wants to form a "Small Farm?Alpaca Breeders Association",
> let me know.? I still will keep my AOBA membership because I choose to
> be a member of the Ideal Alpaca Community - but I would be a member if
> I happen to have the cash around.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Old Boys Club


People are upset about how things are run in AOBA and talk about the Aussie's forming a second group because of the same reasons.? But all people in the US do is bi*ch on yahoo groups.? I?can find absolutely no way?that can be productive.

If someone wants to form a "Small Farm?Alpaca Breeders Association", let me know.? I still will keep my AOBA membership because I choose to be a member of the Ideal Alpaca Community - but I would be a member if I happen to have the cash around.

Heidi Christensen
WingNut Farm Alpacas
Graham WA
(253) 846-2168 or (253) 592-0200
www.wingnut-alpacas.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael A. Morack <mam2@wi.rr.com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 7:16 am
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Old Boys Club

I think people are well aware of what "Old Boy's Club" means. I think
what people are attempting to tell you that there are some people
disposed to controlling others - that is their nature. There are
those who are working to make this a great industry for everyone -
especially the smaller farms. I think what people are trying to tell
you is to focus on those who are working for the industry and how we
can improve the industry for all members regardless of size.

Let me state an example: Ideal Alpacas! Entry fee - ownership in an
Alpaca that carries the pedigree of one of many males used to improve
the herd along with a web site to display and conduct business. If you
don't like the entry fees in one promotion look for another rather
than tear down the honest efforts of some to succeed, ooorr, create a
new one that you think will work better.

The reason for this post is one more attempt to help you see the high
road and find an approach that makes you successful rather than
attempting control over a group that have developed a very successful
program - sounds like you have.

If you have issues with AOBA, then send AOBA your constructive
criticism with possible alternate ideas that they may implement. Let's
develop a live let live appraoch and target those things that keep
this industry moving ahead for everyone.

This approach is difficult for some persons because it begiles their
nature, but then we can all learn and improve. Let's try it.

Michael
Michael and Margery A. Morack
Greenbriar Farm
Waukesha, WI
262.970.9633
MAM2@wi.rr.com

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@...>
wrote:
>
> It seems that people for some reason don't know anymore what the "Old
> Boy's Club" or network is. It does not refer to the pioneers in a
> field, it does not refer to "good ole boys". The Old Boy's Club is seen
> as closed network who control business and do business amongst
> themselves.
>
> Remember those commercials recently about the bankers sitting at the
> huge mahogany desk, with the small business man asking for a loan? He
> was about 6 inches high... Remember that commercial? The distinguished
> white haired banker flicked the small business owner into the
> wastebin...
>
> That is the Old Boy's Club. And that is how many of us small breeders
> feel the alpaca industry is.
>
>
> On Nov 12, 2008, at 6:57 AM, Michael A. Morack wrote:
>
> > I want to take a moment to thank the older members of the Alpaca
> > Community and some insight into why.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Sent to Alpaca site...held, not posted by site...

Hi Allison,
I can't and won't disagree with anything you've said here, except that
I read with my own eyes, a post on another group in which Ian himself
admitted to pushing for an alpaca meat market in Australia, and feel
sit is appropriate for the northern hemisphere as well.

We do have one cria pelt. And while I feel technically confident to
skin an animal, when it came down to skinning one of my own who died, I
couldn't do it. /and since I couldn't bear to drive a skinned carcass
to OSU for necropsy, he went with his skin on. Others we've lost, we've
elected to bury, skin on. A yearling we sheared and left to be reduced
to bones for our chiropractor friend who works on our alpacas. It's a
tough decision though, because it really is nice stuff and I don[t feel
it disrespects them in the least.

Heather

On Nov 13, 2008, at 5:53 PM, Allison Moss-Fritch wrote:

> Hi Heather,
>
> Actually, when I have talked with Ian, he is in favor of people
> realizing
> that, at some time in the future, there will come a time when keeping
> your
> lost cria's hide won't make you into an outcast. And, knowing how
> lovely
> some of those sadly lost crias coat's have been, I do see what he's
> saying.
> I would not make it into a part of my income.but I might keep a "cria
> coat"
> a lost friend won't be using.to remind me of my lost friend!
>
> Alpaca meat..the crias and their fleeces would be appropriate for
> meat..from
> a meat industry point of view..but since they are much MORE valuable
> as
> fiber animals with the ultra fine cria and tui fleeces...the meat
> market
> would make for an income loss for a farmer.not gain. In other
> words..these
> young , more edible animals are much more valuable alive than on a
> BBQ.
>
> Turning older animals into meat..would flood only the salami
> market..it is
> sexed meat.too rank for human consumption. Some animals, in some
> places .a
> very few, do end up as dog's meat. But since that must compete with
> the
> cheaper to buy and slaughter horse older cow market..we are too
> expensive
> and can't compete..we won't be popular with the slaughter
> houses..we're too
> expensive. So it is not a market reality..just something used to stir
> up
> the electorate.
>
> So we are much wiser just not to take the bait. Anyway...a careful
> reading
> of the "certified Angus Beef" comment...shows it was in favor of
> creating a
> recognizable brand for American Alpaca Fiber products.not for BBQ'd
> alpaca!
>
> Allison

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Sent to Alpaca site...held, not posted by site...

Allison,

I think you are right in most of what you say. However, I like to see the
whole picture and would like to read exactly what they have in mind. It
seems strange to me that there are no minutes to read on the website
regarding their discussion or voting.

As for Ian, he is only one board member. I would like to hear from the
others on this subject.

Shirley Dillon

Alpacas of Gemini Farm
Basking Ridge, NJ 07920

www.alpacanation.com/geminifarm.asp
908-647-2995

----- Original Message -----
From: "Allison Moss-Fritch" <aemoss17@comcast.net>
To: <AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 8:53 PM
Subject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] Sent to Alpaca site...held, not posted by site...

> Hi Heather,
>
>
>
>
>
> Actually, when I have talked with Ian, he is in favor of people realizing
> that, at some time in the future, there will come a time when keeping your
> lost cria's hide won't make you into an outcast. And, knowing how lovely
> some of those sadly lost crias coat's have been, I do see what he's
> saying.
> I would not make it into a part of my income.but I might keep a "cria
> coat"
> a lost friend won't be using.to remind me of my lost friend!
>
>
>
> Alpaca meat..the crias and their fleeces would be appropriate for
> meat..from
> a meat industry point of view..but since they are much MORE valuable as
> fiber animals with the ultra fine cria and tui fleeces...the meat market
> would make for an income loss for a farmer.not gain. In other
> words..these
> young , more edible animals are much more valuable alive than on a BBQ.
>
>
>
> Turning older animals into meat..would flood only the salami market..it is
> sexed meat.too rank for human consumption. Some animals, in some places
> .a
> very few, do end up as dog's meat. But since that must compete with the
> cheaper to buy and slaughter horse older cow market..we are too expensive
> and can't compete..we won't be popular with the slaughter houses..we're
> too
> expensive. So it is not a market reality..just something used to stir up
> the electorate.
>
>
>
>
>
> So we are much wiser just not to take the bait. Anyway...a careful
> reading
> of the "certified Angus Beef" comment...shows it was in favor of creating
> a
> recognizable brand for American Alpaca Fiber products.not for BBQ'd
> alpaca!
>
>
>
> Allison
>

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Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

RE: [AlpacaTalk] Sent to Alpaca site...held, not posted by site...

I think it was an accident..no one would intentionally inflame folks against
what they were doing..and I think this was an unfortunate.but unintentional
example.

After all.we do have some folks radar set to "rabid" levels at the moment!

Allison Moss-Fritch

From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Heather Zeleny
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:38 AM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Sent to Alpaca site...held, not posted by site...

Oh, never mind. I have my email client set to NOT load images as they
can be viruses or other bag things in disguise, and I didn't click
"Load Images" on this email, I didn't realize that it might have
content in it.

It is intertesting that they chose "Certified Angus Beef" to use as an
example for their marketing model. I mean, why not "Milk" or eggs, or
cotton, or any other successful industry marketing group? There are
very many people in North America who are very much against an alpaca
meat industry, and to choose a meat co-op model is inflammatory all on
its own. Mind boggling.

Heather

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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