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Friday, January 09, 2009

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: silver spot vs white spot

Ah ha! Thanks a ton, that makes so much more sense to me. We've only been
breeding for pintos for four years and are 50% pinto out of 4 crias. I
think that's very good considering everyone else's production rates. I was
always told to breed a multi to a solid and I'm not doing that anymore, it has
only been producing solids for us. We are breeding our brown /w multi suri girl
this spring to a light fawn.

Susan

In a message dated 1/9/2009 5:51:40 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
alpacas@bellsouth.net writes:

Hi Susan,

Thanks for your compliments on my blog!

I don't have the percentages but I believe that the pintos are
considered to have the dark spotting gene. I have a male who has white
and dark spot genetics. Yet he has shown in fawn...weird stuff these
colors alpacas have. lol!

So I would look at the base color of your pinto or multi and if it's
white then you have to determine what kind of white it is, dilute,
white spot, or white dominant. White is more complicated. I guess the
pintos and multis are more difficult to get? Probably because many
genes are involved in the process.

If your pinto has a darker base color then you probably don't have to
worry about the BEW. However if the base color is white then consider
it to be a white animal and you will risk BEW when breeding to the
animals with white spots on the extremities.

I'd better stop. I'm confusing myself now. I got in over my head with
multis. :)

Katy

Katy Spears
Fairhope Alpacas
_alpacas@bellsouth.alp_ (mailto:alpacas@bellsouth.net)
www.alpacafarmgirl.www.alpa

--- In _AlpacaTalk@yahoogroAlpacaT_ (mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com) ,
LunarStruck@, Luna
>
> Katy - read your blog, good job! Do you know the percentage of BEW
crias
> that will be born to a white spot bred to a multi or pinto? We have
been
> breeding for pintos/multis but have only been getting solids from a
TB with white
> spot to multi and pinto females with lots of white. Thanks,
>
> Susan Olson
> Alpaca Loco
> Riverside, CA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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posted by Chaddo at 8:52 PM 0 comments

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[AlpacaTalk] Re: silver spot vs white spot

Hi Susan,

Thanks for your compliments on my blog!

I don't have the percentages but I believe that the pintos are
considered to have the dark spotting gene. I have a male who has white
and dark spot genetics. Yet he has shown in fawn...weird stuff these
colors alpacas have. lol!

So I would look at the base color of your pinto or multi and if it's
white then you have to determine what kind of white it is, dilute,
white spot, or white dominant. White is more complicated. I guess the
pintos and multis are more difficult to get? Probably because many
genes are involved in the process.

If your pinto has a darker base color then you probably don't have to
worry about the BEW. However if the base color is white then consider
it to be a white animal and you will risk BEW when breeding to the
animals with white spots on the extremities.

I'd better stop. I'm confusing myself now. I got in over my head with
multis. :)

Katy

Katy Spears
Fairhope Alpacas
alpacas@bellsouth.net
www.alpacafarmgirl.com

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, LunarStruck@... wrote:
>
> Katy - read your blog, good job! Do you know the percentage of BEW
crias
> that will be born to a white spot bred to a multi or pinto? We have
been
> breeding for pintos/multis but have only been getting solids from a
TB with white
> spot to multi and pinto females with lots of white. Thanks,
>
> Susan Olson
> Alpaca Loco
> Riverside, CA

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posted by Chaddo at 5:51 PM 0 comments

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] halter training cria

Ah! Good question! No, we only leave halters on while we're working
with them. We feed pellets in the stalls, so we can keep them locked
in while they're eating and getting used to halters. Then, after
feeding time, or their first "halter on pouting time", we take the
halter off and let them go.

We use Zephyr halters which can be adjusted and fitted as necessary.
The noseband should come up on the bridge of the nose rather close to
the eyes, and the back band should be tight.

When they're in full fleece it can be difficult to get the halter on
tight enough, especially with untrained animals. Of course you don't
want them so tight that they're painful or constricting. I leave just
a few fingers room in there. You want them very snug, especially when
lead training starts.

Heather

On Jan 9, 2009, at 11:45 AM, Lysa Grant wrote:

> So, are you suggesting that once I get the halters on, just leave them
> on for a few days?
>
> Does it matter if the halters a bit loose? I ordered alpaca halter,
> but still they seem a little loose.
>
> Thanks
> Lysa
>

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posted by Chaddo at 11:54 AM 0 comments

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] halter training cria

So, are you suggesting that once I get the halters on, just leave them
on for a few days?

Does it matter if the halters a bit loose? I ordered alpaca halter,
but still they seem a little loose.

Thanks
Lysa

On Jan 9, 2009, at 2:34 PM, Heather Zeleny wrote:

> I'd say it's never too late to halter train, and definitely with the
> older rescues or imports, the gentle approach is the only way to go.
> We always start with a few or several sessions of just putting the
> halter on to let them get used to the feel. We often do this at
> feeding time. At first, they cush and pout, and for the first couple
> of days, they refuse to eat their pellets. But eventually, they
> accept it, because they have no choice. :) And nothing "bad" happens
> to them with the halter on. After they behave normally with the
> halter on, then we start the lead training.
>
> The later in age that the training starts, the longer it takes, and
> we have far more tantrums and fits with the older ones. But it's not
> a lost cause! Slow and gentle is the key.
>
> Heather
>
> On Jan 9, 2009, at 11:03 AM, Lysa Grant wrote:
>
> > Would you say the same advice would go for adult rescues?
> >
> > My 2 boys probably have never had halters. I hate chasing them into
> > the stall and locking them
> > in and then trying to get halters on as I figure the act of getting
> > them locked in the stall is
> > trauma enough, yet I really need to get them friendly.
> >
> > Currently they are free to roam day and night in barn and around
> > pasture.
> > They eat well and are stand offish but not too frightened.
> >
> > Lysa
> > jim thorpe, PA
> >
>
>


------------------------------------

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posted by Chaddo at 11:45 AM 0 comments

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] halter training cria

I'd say it's never too late to halter train, and definitely with the
older rescues or imports, the gentle approach is the only way to go.
We always start with a few or several sessions of just putting the
halter on to let them get used to the feel. We often do this at
feeding time. At first, they cush and pout, and for the first couple
of days, they refuse to eat their pellets. But eventually, they
accept it, because they have no choice. :) And nothing "bad" happens
to them with the halter on. After they behave normally with the
halter on, then we start the lead training.

The later in age that the training starts, the longer it takes, and
we have far more tantrums and fits with the older ones. But it's not
a lost cause! Slow and gentle is the key.

Heather

On Jan 9, 2009, at 11:03 AM, Lysa Grant wrote:

> Would you say the same advice would go for adult rescues?
>
> My 2 boys probably have never had halters. I hate chasing them into
> the stall and locking them
> in and then trying to get halters on as I figure the act of getting
> them locked in the stall is
> trauma enough, yet I really need to get them friendly.
>
> Currently they are free to roam day and night in barn and around
> pasture.
> They eat well and are stand offish but not too frightened.
>
> Lysa
> jim thorpe, PA
>

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posted by Chaddo at 11:34 AM 0 comments

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] halter training cria

Would you say the same advice would go for adult rescues?

My 2 boys probably have never had halters. I hate chasing them into
the stall and locking them
in and then trying to get halters on as I figure the act of getting
them locked in the stall is
trauma enough, yet I really need to get them friendly.

Currently they are free to roam day and night in barn and around
pasture.
They eat well and are stand offish but not too frightened.

Lysa
jim thorpe, PA

On Jan 9, 2009, at 1:04 PM, Heather Zeleny wrote:

> Oh definitely put the halter on and keep her in a stall or at least
> an area where she can be caught again to remove it. Leave the alter
> on for 15-20 minutes and just let her get used to the feel of it.
> Repeat this every day for a few days. Next, put a lead on the halter
> and actually start halter training as you'd train a dog to walk. Be
> very gentle. I've found that being nice and not reprimanding unwanted
> behavior, only rewarding wanted behavior (Skinner training?) really
> works better than trying to "break" an alpaca. In fact, a heavy
> handed approach only makes some of them more wild, like my Kallista.
>
> I started halter training the young crias exactly because my
> Kallista, who spent her first week at OSU, needed to be weighed daily
> after she came home. When she reached 30 lbs, it became rather
> difficult to carry her and her wildly kicking legs to the barn where
> the scale is, going through 2 gates. SO I said, alright little girl,
> you're coming with me on your own 4 feet! And that's all there was to
> it. She had no choice except to walk with me to the barn, and she
> learned how to "load" into the chute where we keep the scale.
>
> When I say halter train, I mean halter train! :)
>
> The wild crias will calm down with early halter training, and the
> friendly crias will be even easier to handle with early halter
> training. When babies are babies, they are learning 100% of the time.
> If they learn that haltering and walking on a lead is part of life
> early on, training is much easier and takes far less time than older
> weanlings who have already learned most of what they need,m to be an
> alpaca. Then halter training is this awful new thing that isn't right
> and they need to escape at all costs!
>
> Heather
>
> On Jan 9, 2009, at 6:37 AM, houckj@aol.com wrote:
>
> > <<I'd start halter training right away, though. Once she's trained a
> > bit, she'll be much easier to handle and won't be fearful of you.
> > And, quite often, after they trained when young, they're quite
> > friendly and don't mind physical contact. We use dot be completely
> > hands-off the babies except for vitamins and only really necessary
> > things. Then when we tried halter training at 4-6 months, they were
> > wild animals! And if you wait longer than that, forget it!
> >
> > Heather>>>>
> >
> > Can you be more specific about what you mean by halter "training"?
> > After I put a halter on her (oh boy I can't wait) then what?
> >
> > I am wiping her eye with a very diluted golden seal and it is
> looking
> > much better today, not so crusty, but still weepy.
> >
> > Speaking of white spots, this baby is solid black black black with
> one
> > tiny little tuft of white (dad is a blue) on her neck. I don't
> care -
> > its a GIRL and she's still alive on Day 11 - WOOHOO.
> >
> > Warmly, Janice
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


------------------------------------

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posted by Chaddo at 11:03 AM 0 comments

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] halter training cria

Oh definitely put the halter on and keep her in a stall or at least
an area where she can be caught again to remove it. Leave the alter
on for 15-20 minutes and just let her get used to the feel of it.
Repeat this every day for a few days. Next, put a lead on the halter
and actually start halter training as you'd train a dog to walk. Be
very gentle. I've found that being nice and not reprimanding unwanted
behavior, only rewarding wanted behavior (Skinner training?) really
works better than trying to "break" an alpaca. In fact, a heavy
handed approach only makes some of them more wild, like my Kallista.

I started halter training the young crias exactly because my
Kallista, who spent her first week at OSU, needed to be weighed daily
after she came home. When she reached 30 lbs, it became rather
difficult to carry her and her wildly kicking legs to the barn where
the scale is, going through 2 gates. SO I said, alright little girl,
you're coming with me on your own 4 feet! And that's all there was to
it. She had no choice except to walk with me to the barn, and she
learned how to "load" into the chute where we keep the scale.

When I say halter train, I mean halter train! :)

The wild crias will calm down with early halter training, and the
friendly crias will be even easier to handle with early halter
training. When babies are babies, they are learning 100% of the time.
If they learn that haltering and walking on a lead is part of life
early on, training is much easier and takes far less time than older
weanlings who have already learned most of what they need,m to be an
alpaca. Then halter training is this awful new thing that isn't right
and they need to escape at all costs!

Heather

On Jan 9, 2009, at 6:37 AM, houckj@aol.com wrote:

> <<I'd start halter training right away, though. Once she's trained a
> bit, she'll be much easier to handle and won't be fearful of you.
> And, quite often, after they trained when young, they're quite
> friendly and don't mind physical contact. We use dot be completely
> hands-off the babies except for vitamins and only really necessary
> things. Then when we tried halter training at 4-6 months, they were
> wild animals! And if you wait longer than that, forget it!
>
> Heather>>>>
>
> Can you be more specific about what you mean by halter "training"?
> After I put a halter on her (oh boy I can't wait) then what?
>
> I am wiping her eye with a very diluted golden seal and it is looking
> much better today, not so crusty, but still weepy.
>
> Speaking of white spots, this baby is solid black black black with one
> tiny little tuft of white (dad is a blue) on her neck. I don't care -
> its a GIRL and she's still alive on Day 11 - WOOHOO.
>
> Warmly, Janice

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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posted by Chaddo at 10:04 AM 0 comments

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] BEW

I wouldn't rush to geld. BEW is not a defect. In Australia, they have
had BEW Grand Champions. There is nothing in the AOBA show rules
regarding eye color, Blue eyes is not a fault in the show ring.

Heather

On Jan 9, 2009, at 5:50 AM, Wendy Edwards wrote:

> i had my first BEW born this summer from a white sire with only
> white in his pedigree and a white dam - the cria is white with a
> bit of light fawn freckling on his ears, has beautiful fibre,
> conformation - everything i am breeding for but has blue eyes and
> will have to be gelded.
>
> this was the last thing i was expecting from this breeding.
> Wendy
> DeamWeaver Alpacas
> BC
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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posted by Chaddo at 9:54 AM 0 comments

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: silver spot vs white spot

My DRG Avatar son when bred to a light fawn produced a light fawn
with amazing fleece. Bred to my dominant TB, she aborted twins at 96
days. One was probably going to be grey, the other, black. I bred her
back Penumbra so Scirocco will have to wait another year for more crias.

Everything regarding the white/white spot/grey/BEW issue is theory.
Much of what that university professor states is his opinion and not
borne out by the numbers.

Maroon is certainly linked to grey. MAroons throw grey all the time,
we have a maroon girl on the farm who is the product of two silver
greys. My maroon sire is from a fawn and rose grey. Bred to thatr
maroon girl, they produced a TB cria with white fibers at the tip of
her tail and edges of her ears and chin.

In my opinion, going by my many years of art and design training,
maroon is a red base color covering black. Or is it black base color
with red covering? HOwever you want to look at it, it's all the same
to me.

I'm personally not afraid a bit of BEW. I acknowledge the risk of
deafness. Also, we had one here to breed to my maroon boy, and her
reproductive organs were very underdeveloped, and she was 3 years old
at the time. I can't say whether that is related to her being BEW.
But, BEW are grey factories, you get grey almost all the time from
breeding them to any solid color.

Heather

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posted by Chaddo at 9:51 AM 0 comments

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[AlpacaTalk] Re: Merry Morning - eye problem

Hi Janice, great to hear she's gaining--and nicely too! That's
probably why you can't get anything out of mom, Merry's sucked her dry :)

My little boy's eye was sort of runny (not goopey, though)and crusty
(in the corner) for a month or so when he was 3-4 weeks old. It didn't
seem to interfere with his sight at all and cleared up on its own. I
know the wind does it to me--but I get to wash my face ;) If your
worried, look to see if there is anything visible (scratch, hay) and
if not, I'd just give it time unless it gets worse.

Morgen
Dreamwood Farm
Claverack, NY
--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@...> wrote:
>
> Glad to hear the cria is doing well! And even if you don't have a
> scale, you can keep track of her body score. If her spine starts
> feeling bony, and you can feel her ribs easily, then it's time to
> start taking bottle feeding seriously! If their body score is good,
> and energy is good, nothing to worry about!
>
> Her eye issue is probably just "one of those things." Goopy eyes are
> nothing unusual especially for animals that live outside. If you can,
> flushing it out with an eye wash wouldn't hurt. Maybe some eye
> ointment available at any feed store or local vet.
>
> I'd start halter training right away, though. Once she's trained a
> bit, she'll be much easier to handle and won't be fearful of you.
> And, quite often, after they trained when young, they're quite
> friendly and don't mind physical contact. We use dot be completely
> hands-off the babies except for vitamins and only really necessary
> things. Then when we tried halter training at 4-6 months, they were
> wild animals! And if you wait longer than that, forget it!
>
> Heather
>
>
> On Jan 8, 2009, at 2:23 PM, houckj@... wrote:
>
> > An update and thanks to you all that have written with suggestions.
> > She
> > is doing well weight wise. I finally realized I did indeed have a
> > professional doctor scale in my office - duh and started getting an
> > accurate weight on her Monday. She fights tooth and nail and is quite
> > strong, she has kicked over everything in my office.
> > Mon - 18.5#
> > Tues - 19#
> > Wed - 19 1/4 #
> > Thur - 20#!!!
> >
> > After sruggling to get her to take sustenance from a bottle or
> > syringe I
> > finally got 2 oz in her on Mon at Day 7. That is when I realized I did
> > have a good accurate scale. so decided to just monitor her weight and
> > not stress her, mama, and myself out unless she was losing weight. I
> > can't count the 20# that I thought she weighed when she was born as
> > that
> > was on an old bathroom scale in the barn - not terribly accurate.
> >
> > So now I am finally feeling pretty confident this girl is going to
> > make
> > it :-). She sure is feisty I'll say that for her. And I cannot get a
> > drop of milk out of mom, but Merry must be! I have added a 3rd meal to
> > mom in the middle of the day of alfalfa pellets. And am just leaving
> > them be except for the middle of the day catching to carry into my
> > office - she struggles all the way across the yard and has nearly
> > escaped my arms several times, so I probably will only continue to
> > weight her daily for another couple of days and then maybe 2x week
> > for a
> > bit longer. It sure is reassuring to see those pounds go up :-).
> >
> > Now the only problem is her eye. I noticed yesterday it was tearing a
> > little bit, nothing bad. Today is crusted up pretty bad and running.
> > What should I do? I don't have any eye meds here and can't afford the
> > vet that we used when my Allie's eye was severely scratched this
> > summer.
> > All the meds I used on her are gone. I did use a very dilute
> > goldenseal on Allie as well as the vet meds, so that is the only
> > thing I
> > can think of, but I don't think this is an infection? More like an
> > irritation? Or perhaps a little scratch. Don't know. But don't want
> > it to crust up and shut on her. It has been VERY windy here the past
> > few days with a LOT of rain. 10" in the past 3 days on top of 15" in
> > Dec - it is a mud pit here, everything is a mess. And the wind has
> > been
> > gusting up to 50 mph. Very easily could have debris blown into her
> > eye.
> > She does lay in the hay a good portion of the time while mom is eating
> > or just hanging out, so I am thinking a piece of hay could have stuck
> > her in the eye. If there is a med or rememdy you can suggest I could
> > call the vet and ask if I could come pick it up, she would probably be
> > agreeable to that - maybe. Or perhaps just wipe it out with a warm
> > compress?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Janice
>
>
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posted by Chaddo at 8:32 AM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] BEW

There was a really interesting article about blue eye genetics in Alpaca magazine 3 issues ago. Just thought I'd throw that out there....

Steve!

On Jan 9, 2009, at 10:00 AM, "Wendy Edwards" <wendy.edwards@shaw.ca> wrote:

from what i've read and what i've been told, a white blue-eyed male can't be used in a breeding program.

Wendy
DreamWeaver Alpacas
BC
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Weisgrau/Staghorn Valley Alpacas
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 6:21 AM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] BEW

Why does he have to be gelded?

--
Jerry Weisgrau & Judy Phaff
Staghorn Valley Alpacas
Serendipity Farm
Delanson, NY 12053
(518) 895-2415
alpacas@staghornvalley.com
www.staghornvalley.com

Bringing the Alpaca Lifestyle to
New York's Capital
Region

-------------- Original message from "Wendy Edwards" <wendy.edwards@shaw.ca>: --------------

i had my first BEW born this summer from a white sire with only white in his pedigree and a white dam - the cria is white with a bit of light fawn freckling on his ears, has beautiful fibre, conformation - everything i am breeding for
> but has blue eyes and will have to be gelded.
>
> this was the last thing i was expecting from this breeding.
> Wendy
> DeamWeaver Alpacas
> BC
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and
> civility.Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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posted by Chaddo at 7:13 AM 0 comments