Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Tuesday, February 26, 2008

RE: [AlpacaTalk] Colors

Good Evening Amy Jo and List,

I also like appaloosas as they often are tied with the various grays in
herd inheritance. Many of the rose grays which are "pink" based have appy
type stippling or spots, especially in suris. Condor is a very well known
appy suri boy who throws all types of spots and dots as are Gunsmoke,
Baranoff, Doc Riley, Prince Graystone, etc. and a number of other well known
studs whose grays make them famous.

I like all the lovely colors and do seek them out when I am working in the
grays. Black, maroon, fawn and all shades of grey and appy have an
interplay that we do not yet fully understand. Until we know much more
about it.I'd be loathe to breed it out of the national herd.

Just like the "dreaded" BEWS..which have the most spectacularly lovely
fleeces both in suri and in huacaya..there may be an interplay of many
sought after qualities that we DON'T want to remove.so we need to keep all
of our colors.and if you breed for grey you are going to get some of these
other things in the mix.

Best Regards,

Allison

From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Heather Zeleny
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 8:09 PM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Colors

I'd say darks (blacks and maroons) and greys are your best bets. Given
the current phobia against pintos and other fancies, unless you are one
of those breeders who doesn't care about the prevailing marketing
winds, they should be avoided if possible. Of course, sometimes pintos
or other fancies do have a way of popping up in your herd unexpectedly.
We were told once early in our breeding career, to "hide" our pinto,
because we didn't want it to get out that we had "that" on our farm.

And personally, I also breed for blacks, maroons, and rose greys. :)

Heather

On Feb 26, 2008, at 9:34 AM, AmyJoLabbe@aol.com
<mailto:AmyJoLabbe%40aol.com> wrote:

> We are still getting ready to build our herd. Cant even call it a
> herd, it
> will be so small. We have decided on 6 females to start.
>
> Color questions....what is most desirable for sale? What color babies
> are
> selling best? That is if quality to quality the animals are
> identical, what
> color will sell best.
>
> Also, at some point we would like to consider gaining a stud or two.
> Are
> there more desirable colors should we have a mixed herd of females?
> So far my
> son has said he wants and all black and my daughter a light fawn. We
> are
> figuring two whites. My favorite are the greys and the patterned. So
> maybe one of
> those too. Considering all the colors, what would be the ideal male
> color in
> order to produce marketable babies and fiber?
>
>
>
> **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
>
> (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-
> campos-duffy/
> 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Colors

I'd say darks (blacks and maroons) and greys are your best bets. Given
the current phobia against pintos and other fancies, unless you are one
of those breeders who doesn't care about the prevailing marketing
winds, they should be avoided if possible. Of course, sometimes pintos
or other fancies do have a way of popping up in your herd unexpectedly.
We were told once early in our breeding career, to "hide" our pinto,
because we didn't want it to get out that we had "that" on our farm.

And personally, I also breed for blacks, maroons, and rose greys. :)

Heather

On Feb 26, 2008, at 9:34 AM, AmyJoLabbe@aol.com wrote:

> We are still getting ready to build our herd. Cant even call it a
> herd, it
> will be so small. We have decided on 6 females to start.
>
> Color questions....what is most desirable for sale? What color babies
> are
> selling best? That is if quality to quality the animals are
> identical, what
> color will sell best.
>
> Also, at some point we would like to consider gaining a stud or two.
> Are
> there more desirable colors should we have a mixed herd of females?
> So far my
> son has said he wants and all black and my daughter a light fawn. We
> are
> figuring two whites. My favorite are the greys and the patterned. So
> maybe one of
> those too. Considering all the colors, what would be the ideal male
> color in
> order to produce marketable babies and fiber?
>
>
>
> **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
>
> (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-
> campos-duffy/
> 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: CDT

And as a matter of fact, I believe there is NO vaccine for botulism.
Period.

Heather

On Feb 25, 2008, at 10:05 PM, Heather Zeleny wrote:

> By the way, Botulism protection IS NOT obtained through CT&T vaccine.
> How many times do I have to go through this?
>
> On Feb 24, 2008, at 9:51 PM, All American Alpacas wrote:
>
> >
> > Ever heard of botulism? It's a clostridium bacteria.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] re: CDT

I do agree, Rachelle. But sometimes you come across a vet like ours,
who is of the mind that he'll do what his client wants. If the client
wants strong allopathic medical regime, he'll do it. Or is they want,
like us, as little pharma as possible, he'll do that too. We do resort
to allopathic medicine when it's obvious that's what's required, but it
is not always required.

So certainly follow your vet's advice... or your naturopath's advice,
etc.

Heather

Heather Zeleny
West Wind Alpacas
Eugene, OR

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
http://www.westwindalpacas.com/
http://www.alpacanation.com/westwind.asp
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join

On Feb 26, 2008, at 8:45 AM, Wyatt Black wrote:

> Personally here's what I do:
> Whatever my vet tells me to! I don't take other breeders words as
> gospel, and apply their husbandry practices to my herd. (no disrespect
> meant to Jan D., I have great respect for her wisdom and experience)
> The reason I don't do that, is because there are vastly differing
> practices for immunization that are totally dependant on where you are
> located geographically.
> What works for one breeder in CA, may be completely inappropriate for
> someone in GA for example.
> That goes for worming protocols, vaccinations, feeding regimens, etc.
>
> My advice would be to check with your camelid experienced, local
> veterinarian before making any final decisions.
> I am not a vet (don't I wish!!).
> Slainte~
> Rachelle
>
> Black Magic Alpaca Ranch
> Honesty, Integrity, Quality
> Wyatt & Rachelle Black
> P.O. Box 457
> 6500 Digier Road
> Lebec, CA
> 93243
> (661-248-6568)
> wyattblack@earthlink.net
> http://pasturemusings.blogspot.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] New Alpacas here.

We have had our alpacas with oak trees in the pastures with absolutely
no problems, males or females. I have no information about black
locust. Deer, however, are a major consideration. On another property,
we had liver fluke problems so we had to close off all but the top
pastures close to the barn. In other areas, meningeal worm is a problem
if you have white tail deer.

We have 5' 2x4 no-climb fencing. If you have deer coming into your
pastures, you might really want to invest in 8 or 10' deer fencing for
your perimeters, or perhaps guard dogs. We found that deer did not come
into pastures where our alpacas had sufficient density, but higher
density means higher demand on your pasture. And if you rotate
pastures, then you have times when a fallow pasture is open for deer
traffic.

I hope someone will answer your questions about the black locust.
Honestly, I didn't know it was toxic.

Heather

Heather Zeleny
West Wind Alpacas
Eugene, OR

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
http://www.westwindalpacas.com/
http://www.alpacanation.com/westwind.asp
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join

On Feb 26, 2008, at 8:16 AM, treuil73 wrote:

> Hello there, we are in the process of getting Alpacas. Not for
> breeding but just for fiber. We have a lot of deer here and was
> wondering how do you get rid of/make sure that there are no parasites
> existing that would harm the animals in their designated area? Also, I
> have been looking at the VERY long list of plants that are toxic to
> Alpacas, is it just one accorn or a number of them if grazed on? Also
> with the black locusts...is it the tree or the leaves? I am sorry if
> this has been asked a lot. If possible please direct me to the
> archives. Thank you everyone for your time,
>
> Nichol Treuil in Mississippi

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Colors

You are very welcome!

Bluest Skies
Jennifer

--- AmyJoLabbe@aol.com wrote:

> Jennifer
>
> thanks for that answer. I keep forgetting that by
> bettering a female alot of
> times people are refering to her fiber. I keep
> thinking conformation and
> bite.
>
>
> Amy
>
>
>
> **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch
> video on AOL Living.
>
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
> 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Colors

Jennifer

thanks for that answer. I keep forgetting that by bettering a female alot of
times people are refering to her fiber. I keep thinking conformation and
bite.


Amy

**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Colors

What you write with regards to conformation is spot
on. And in a perfect world you would want to use the
perfect male... But the perfect male isn't perfect for
every dam. When we are speaking of fleece improvements
we have much more leeway.

We have suris so are considering lock styles, density,
fineness and above all LUSTER when making our choices.
Occasionally I will go to a dense male who isn't quite
(paper thin differences here) as lustrous for my very
lustrous girl that could use some density. The
inheritance on fleece is FAR greater than that of
conformation. We can see huge fleece improvements in a
single generation.

When purchasing in most instances your new girls will
come with breedings. Ask if those can be
interchangeable. Say you buy a girl from ranch A whose
stud is a better match for the girl you buy from ranch
B. The ideal would be to have the first round of
breedings included in your first purchases so you will
have some time to look for your stud. The learning
curve is quite steep (something I love about life!)
and what you love today may not be your style a year
from now. Give yourself the time and space to learn
what it is you like and want before shopping for your
stud. Visit shows and ranches to see a large variety
of alpacas and ask the ranches you buy from what their
ultimate breeding to the girls would be. They will
prolly have a large amount of insite to the genetics
and the best possibilities for the girls.

Bluest Skies
Jennifer
Aero Ranch Suri Alpacas
Browns Valley CA

--- AmyJoLabbe@aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 2/26/2008 1:20:18 PM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> jpowers@bentstarproject.org writes:
>
> As to herdsires, a fabulous fawn has the
> possibility
> of producing nearly any color and a high
> probability
> of throwing improvements.
>
>
> Thanks for the answers. I think you hit it on the
> head for me above. Fawn is
> the color I was looking for, not the color itself
> but what color offered me
> the greatest variety considering the variety of
> colors of females I will soon
> have.
>
> We are probably doing it backwards, because we have
> all picked out favorite
> colors and now are shopping for what we would
> consider the best female we can
> afford. But considering the whole house likes
> different colors, we know
> eventually we will have to pick the ideal male. Now
> it would be hard to pick out
> the ideal male for each female - as with only 6-8
> females we cant have a
> different sire for each. (we are just starting out).
> Now but this thought comes
> to mind....
>
> We currently breed horses (for 15+ years). Both for
> sport, show and race. We
> dont pick our stallions based on the conformation of
> the mare. As in if you
> have a mare with a long back, you dont breed to a
> stallion with a short back.
> Because genetically horses do not obtain 50/50 genes
> on the back. You would
> actually end us with either a short backed or long
> backed foal. The foal
> either gets the sires back gene or the mothers.
> Same thing with leg conformation.
> if you have a mare over at the knee you need to
> breed to a stallion with
> perfect legs (now in my book ALL stallions should
> have perfect legs) There is no
> middle. So in chosing sires for our mares, we
> consider pedigree, race/show
> records, disposition but conformation is always
> based on the "ideal"
> conformation standards.
>
> So why wouldnt you pick an alpaca sire that is close
> to perfect in every
> way, period?
>
>
> Amy
> (ps again, BRAND new to alpacas)
>
>
>
> **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch
> video on AOL Living.
>
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
> 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Colors


In a message dated 2/26/2008 1:20:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jpowers@bentstarproject.org writes:

As to herdsires, a fabulous fawn has the possibility
of producing nearly any color and a high probability
of throwing improvements.

Thanks for the answers. I think you hit it on the head for me above. Fawn is
the color I was looking for, not the color itself but what color offered me
the greatest variety considering the variety of colors of females I will soon
have.

We are probably doing it backwards, because we have all picked out favorite
colors and now are shopping for what we would consider the best female we can
afford. But considering the whole house likes different colors, we know
eventually we will have to pick the ideal male. Now it would be hard to pick out
the ideal male for each female - as with only 6-8 females we cant have a
different sire for each. (we are just starting out). Now but this thought comes
to mind....

We currently breed horses (for 15+ years). Both for sport, show and race. We
dont pick our stallions based on the conformation of the mare. As in if you
have a mare with a long back, you dont breed to a stallion with a short back.
Because genetically horses do not obtain 50/50 genes on the back. You would
actually end us with either a short backed or long backed foal. The foal
either gets the sires back gene or the mothers. Same thing with leg conformation.
if you have a mare over at the knee you need to breed to a stallion with
perfect legs (now in my book ALL stallions should have perfect legs) There is no
middle. So in chosing sires for our mares, we consider pedigree, race/show
records, disposition but conformation is always based on the "ideal"
conformation standards.

So why wouldnt you pick an alpaca sire that is close to perfect in every
way, period?


Amy
(ps again, BRAND new to alpacas)

**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Colors

Color is always a fun topic...
We have found that no matter the color, quality is
always the most marketable. And as the market is
fickle the wisest thing to do is go for what YOU like
and work to produce the best possible improvements.

Patterns can be at a disadvantage as some folks
poo-poo them as not being good for a fiber industry
but all one has to do is investigate Jacob Sheep to
learn that is far from true.

Go for what attracts YOU. Also keep in mind that
breeding for specific colors is very tricky and hit an
miss. If you have a program built around improving
rather than specific colors (though say an emphasis on
darks) you will find a higher success rate and easier
marketability.

As to herdsires, a fabulous fawn has the possibility
of producing nearly any color and a high probability
of throwing improvements. It gets down to the
specifics of what your girls need by way of
improvements. Remember the hardest thing to improve is
conformation and bites, the easiest is fleece.

Have fun!

Bluest Skies
Jennifer Powers
Aero Ranch Suri Alpacas
Browns Valley CA

--- AmyJoLabbe@aol.com wrote:

> We are still getting ready to build our herd. Cant
> even call it a herd, it
> will be so small. We have decided on 6 females to
> start.
>
> Color questions....what is most desirable for sale?
> What color babies are
> selling best? That is if quality to quality the
> animals are identical, what
> color will sell best.
>
> Also, at some point we would like to consider
> gaining a stud or two. Are
> there more desirable colors should we have a mixed
> herd of females? So far my
> son has said he wants and all black and my daughter
> a light fawn. We are
> figuring two whites. My favorite are the greys and
> the patterned. So maybe one of
> those too. Considering all the colors, what would be
> the ideal male color in
> order to produce marketable babies and fiber?
>
>
>
>
>
> **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch
> video on AOL Living.
>
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
> 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

__._,_.___
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RE: [AlpacaTalk] Colors

Color is a personal preference. I have a preference for grey and black!
White is easiest to dye, but it depends where you are going to focus your
market. As for studs, again, personal preference. You can have a stud with
many ribbons, but the shows may have been small. You could get an
outstanding male with no ribbons but unbelievable fiber! When you breed,
check the genealogy of both parents - check their colors of their offspring.
You can always try for a certain color, but you never know what you are
going to get!

Linda Lachanski

Pic A Paca Dreams Alpaca Farm

Delanson, NY

From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of AmyJoLabbe@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 12:35 PM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Colors

We are still getting ready to build our herd. Cant even call it a herd, it
will be so small. We have decided on 6 females to start.

Color questions....what is most desirable for sale? What color babies are
selling best? That is if quality to quality the animals are identical, what
color will sell best.

Also, at some point we would like to consider gaining a stud or two. Are
there more desirable colors should we have a mixed herd of females? So far
my
son has said he wants and all black and my daughter a light fawn. We are
figuring two whites. My favorite are the greys and the patterned. So maybe
one of
those too. Considering all the colors, what would be the ideal male color in

order to produce marketable babies and fiber?

**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du
ffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
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