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Thursday, May 01, 2008

RE: [AlpacaTalk] fleece stat averages

Hi Emaly,

I'm happy with a 2 lb skirted fleece for a yearling..remembering that finer
micron fleeces weigh less.

Now, overall weight of a fully developed male alpaca fleece should be near
the 5 lb or more..unskirted, whole fleece.but skirted blanket might only be
3.5 or 4.depends on who is skirting the fleece!

I know that some folks brag of 8 and 10 lb fleeces..but I always think that
animal must be 45 microns and have the hoof trimmings included. LOL!

Seriously, I think most folks are happy to see 5+ lbs of firsts on a large,
finely fleeced male who is very dense.
Once again, get Ian to chime in and you will learn lots more than I can tell
you.

Allison E. Moss-Fritch

New Moon Alpacas

Santa Clara, CA

408/248-3581

http://www.newmoonalpacas.com

From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Emaly Leak
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:21 PM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] fleece stat averages

That was exactly what I was looking for, thanks. I understand that many
people geld their males because their fiber isn't quite up to par for
breeding standards, but I hope I can find one that was gelded for other
reasons. Any thoughts on shearing weights? I didn't measure our fleeces
when they were shorn last year, so I don't have a good reference. What do
most people expect to get from a yearling or two-year old huacaya each year?

Emaly Leak

Autumn Hill Llamas & Fiber

llamapyr25@earthlink.net <mailto:llamapyr25%40earthlink.net>

www.autumnhillllamas.com <http://www.autumnhillllamas.com/>

Fairland, IN

Llamas, Alpacas, German Angora Rabbits, and Fiber Items

Female & Male Llamas For Sale

Outside Breedings available to ALSA Halter Champion Male

_____

From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ]
On
Behalf Of Stardust Alpacas
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 7:15 PM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] fleece stat averages

Hi Emaly,

Well, of course gelding depends on many factors like
conformation, microns, etc...but microns are probably
a large factor. Some people say that gelding keeps the
microns lower, but I have heard that running up and
down the fence stresses the males and keeps the micron
lower. It all depends on who you talk to.

We are having most of our 1 year old males in the last
few years around 17 microns and rarely over 20. For
some reason, our yearling girls are about 20 microns,
but we did have one at 17. We feed them a bit more
since they will need extra for pregnancy, which may
account for the higher micron?

We have 3 year old males at 17-20 microns and 5 year
olds at 21 microns.

Fleece mills like animals that are between 20-25
microns. It is easier on the equipment. Below 20
breaks and is hard to work with, so the finer fleece
is better for hand spinners. The most important thing
is to have the fiber sorted according to microns since
a typical blanket can vary in microns as many as 5
microns or more. Crimp style affects the processing,
so the more uniform the crimp is the easier to
process.

Grid samples are good when selecting an animal, so if
the fiber is selected from many areas of the blanket
and the microns are all about the same, then you know
your animal is uniform. This is important when
choosing breeding stock so that the offspring are also
uniform...but for a gelding, it is only important to
make that particular fleece quicker and easier to
process.

I am sorry if this sounds school marmy to you, but I
don't know what you know and don't know.

Stephanie
Stardust Alpacas
Creswell, OR
--- Emaly Leak <llamapyr25@earthlin <mailto:llamapyr25%40earthlink.net>
k.net> wrote:

> I am on the search for a new fiber alpaca, and want
> to make sure that I'm
> getting the best fleeced animal that I can find.
> What would you estimate to
> be averages for a fleece shorn at 1 year old, 2
> years old, & 3 years old?
> What about microns at each year? Even rough
> estimates would be greatly
> appreciated- I don't know much about the particulars
> of alpaca fleece! For
> reference, this would be for a gelded white huacaya
> male (I know color can
> make a difference in microns). Thanks for any
> information you can share.
>
>
>
> Emaly Leak
>
> Autumn Hill Llamas & Fiber
>
> llamapyr25@earthlin <mailto:llamapyr25%40earthlink.net> k.net
>
> www.autumnhillllamas.com
> <http://www.autumnhi <http://www.autumnhillllamas.com/> llllamas.com/>
>
> Fairland, IN
>
> Llamas, Alpacas, German Angora Rabbits, and Fiber
> Items
>
> Female & Male Llamas For Sale
>
> Outside Breedings available to ALSA Halter Champion
> Male
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

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posted by Chaddo at 11:10 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

RE: [AlpacaTalk] fleece stat averages

Hi Emaly,

I asked Ian Watt a question about the fiber stats.averages, etc. He told me
the fiber stats should be finer in a white than for the colors.with an
expectation of progressively less fineness (adding a micron per color) as
you move from white, beige, fawns, browns, grays to the blacks. So, you
might want to see a 14 micron white for a top quality weanling.but the same
quality might be a 17 micron black at the same age. They just have not
progressed as much with keeping micron counts in colored animals as fine as
the whites, probably because of the South American emphasis on whites over
all other colors in their original breeding programs before we imported to
USA.

Ian also told me that the "benchmark" year is the tui or second cutting
fleece. While we all enjoy the very buttery, fine cria fleeces.it is that
second fleece that is more accurately indicative of the animal's overall
ability to have a fine, dense fleece.

We look for a Standard of Deviation around 4.0 and expect to have it stay
under 5 if we are going to buy that animal who is just coming into maturity.
I also like to see a Coefficient of Variation which remains under 19..and
frequently you will see that number be higher the first year, then less as
the animal matures to the second year. It is the variation which will give
an overall feeling of softness and non-scratchiness to a fleece which may
not be as fine as your hand tells you it is. If the fleece has very
little variation, the micron may not be as low as the overall quality feel
makes you believe, so having the whole fleece be consistent is almost the
most important characteristic. There is an interplay between the two
numbers so if one rises, the other falls somewhat. If you have a very old
animal with lots of fibers over 30 micron.the CV gets LESS.because the whole
animal is coarse, so the variation is small!

Also, as the animal ages, having a low variation over all the fleece makes
even the coarser fleeces seem to have a nicer feel. Prickles come from
feeling coarser fibers next to soft ones. When we are looking at breeding
stock I like to see histogram figures over several years and I look more for
a small but consistent "decay" in the figures as the micron count creeps up
with maturity and pregnancy. If there is a sudden "blow out" of micron
count or either SD or CV.then look to outside factors to see if there were
stressors to explain the sudden degradation of the fleece.if a Mom has an
exceptionally greedy cria..then her own fiber stats may show some extra
losses.but those can be explained by that added stress. On the other hand,
if a herdsire suddenly jumps in his micron count and his numbers decay.but
he's not suddenly tripling his time on herdsire row. maybe he's not the
right animal for your breeding program!

Ian is a really wonderful mentor..you should ask him also for more
information..I'm merely repeating his wisdom.and adding what little I've
learned.

We were truly blessed this winter when one of our new crias was a solid bay
black girl with a starting micron count of only 15.3.we doubt it will last,
but it is extremely fine for a dark cria and if she even comes close at a
year..it will be worth watching her closely. I hope you have even more luck
than that!

Best Regards,

Allison

From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Emaly Leak
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 2:45 PM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] fleece stat averages

I am on the search for a new fiber alpaca, and want to make sure that I'm
getting the best fleeced animal that I can find. What would you estimate to
be averages for a fleece shorn at 1 year old, 2 years old, & 3 years old?
What about microns at each year? Even rough estimates would be greatly
appreciated- I don't know much about the particulars of alpaca fleece! For
reference, this would be for a gelded white huacaya male (I know color can
make a difference in microns). Thanks for any information you can share.

Emaly Leak

Autumn Hill Llamas & Fiber

llamapyr25@earthlink.net <mailto:llamapyr25%40earthlink.net>

www.autumnhillllamas.com <http://www.autumnhillllamas.com/>

Fairland, IN

Llamas, Alpacas, German Angora Rabbits, and Fiber Items

Female & Male Llamas For Sale

Outside Breedings available to ALSA Halter Champion Male

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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posted by Chaddo at 11:06 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Advertising posts

Hehe, yes, my audacity knows no bounds! What nerve!

But seriously, I really do ask that we all refrain from posting alpacas for sale or hire. Ellie Winslow asks me every time I have make one of these posts if it's ok for her announce her seminars here. And I have always told her that I feel her books and seminars are more of a service to all of us, because we can all benefit from her knowledge. Just as we can all benefit from neo-natal clinics, Marty McGee clinincs, and many people feel Steve Hull's seminars are useful... etc. Of course, discussion about my thoughts and your thoughts on this topics are welcome.

But please, don't posts ads for alpacas for sale or hire on this goup. And, as I'm sure you all know, I have even accidentally posted a sale ad here myself. But please remove those when you do it!

Best,
Heather

-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela Hunter [mailto:peakprez@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:44 AM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Advertising posts

WHAT? No fines?! What kind of group moderator are you??? ;)

~Pamela Hunter

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Heather Zeleny <
alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> Please, let's keep this group limited to alpaca discussion, rather than
> an alpaca sales list. We have plenty of lists set up for that purpose
> already. I'm not about to impose fines fro people who do accidentally
> posts sales ads here, but please remove them if you do post a sales ad
> on this group.
>
> Thanks,
> Heather
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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posted by Chaddo at 7:19 PM 0 comments