Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Monday, November 10, 2008

[AlpacaTalk] More on show fees

Since it was questioned, let's talk more about fees at AOBA nationals
and aoba affiliate shows stalling and entry fees.

So I do not know what entry fees for halter and fleece are at nationals
this year, but I'll make a guess based on past years' fees and say
they're at least $50 per alpaca. Stalling fees are double what most
affiliate and regional shows charge.

Oregon Flock and Fiber has alpacas, I believe halter show, and for sure
fleece show. I couldn't find info on the alpaca show, since the show
has passed, but I did find forms for the llama portion. Both llama and
alpacas at OFFF are ALSA shows with ALSA judges, not FFA or what have
you, Billy Bob from down the road judges.
OFFF
Stalls: $20 per night (Friday, Saturday)
Halter entry $20
Walking fleece class $15 ($20 at show)
Non-ALSA member fee $30
ALSA animal fee $5 per animal

ALSA National Champion Alpaca
Stalling: $65 includes electricity and bedding
Farm display booth $45
ALSA non-member fee $30
Halter class: $36
Walking fleece class $25
Shorn fleece class $25

I do know that renting facilities is expensive. Our small affiliate is
struggling with that. We have a fleece show, will be adding a spin-off
for 2009, and we have available alpaca pens, farm display booths, and
vendor booths. Our show is held in late June, so we don't hold a halter
show. It's tough timing and maybe we need to look at changing our
dates! But there are reasons we hold it on the 3rd weekend in June in
Eugene, at the fairgrounds.

So anyway, there's a start for those who say alpaca shows just have to
cost what they do. Because that argument just doesn't hold water. The
ALSA Nationals halter and fleece fees are in line with smaller local
AOBA affiliate shows, and stalls are half what I've seen from most
affiliates. All I know is what I see.

Heather

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posted by Chaddo at 11:36 PM 0 comments

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Let them eat cake.

Don,
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I never implied that AOBA set affiliate
sponsored show stalling fees. I am fairly confident that AOBA sets the
fees for Nationals, though.

Right right right...whatever, not making money. I saw the annual
reports (for some reason my fingers typed "preposterous" instead of
"report" the first time around!). Looks like they were always making
money to me.

I have seen many livestock shows that were not county fairs with
stalling fees of $25 and entry fees of $15, and some of those shows pay
premiums, too! As a matter of fact, I have seen an alpaca show with
ALSA judges with $25 or $50 stalling fees and $25 entry fees. It was
held in a mid-western state in 2007 or 2008. You will not find in the
AOBA site, of course. It wasn't the triple crown, I'm pretty sure it
was in Missouri or maybe Kansas...

Most of our AOBA certified judges are not making a living judging
shows. I would raise a huge stink if I thought that our show fees were
paying salaries for a judging system that was created by... Ok, I'll
stop right there. No, the AOBA judges have real jobs. There aren't
enough shows to support all of the judges.

I am also an unpaid volunteer, and I am trying to find ways to make our
very small AOBA certified show more accessible to more breeders, while
increasing our fundraising net totals for our affiliate.

Please at least criticise what I really said.

Heather

On Nov 10, 2008, at 10:26 PM, Don Stanwyck wrote:

> Heather:
>
> As a recent affiliate board member and (until last week) a member of
> the
> Affiliate Congress, I want to correct a few minor errors in your post.
>
> 1) Stall fees and show entry fees are set by the show sponsor (local
> affiliate), not by AOBA. As one who has helped create a budget for a
> show,
> I assure you that most shows in our industry charge over $200/stall
> because
> their cost structures require that just to cover expenses.
>
> 2) The federal government required AOBA to spin off the for-profit
> organization, not because they were making money (they weren't), but
> because
> of the kinds of activities they were involved in and how they related
> to the
> charter. I think there are those who were closer to the action on
> this who
> can provide more detailed comment if you need it.
>
> 3) I've never seen a livestock show where the stall fees were $25
> other
> than my local county fair - and it didn't have to lease the
> facilities, pay
> judges, etc., because the fairgrounds had already been paid for by my
> taxes
> and the judges were 4H volunteers, not trained, certified, judges who
> make
> their livings judging shows.
>
> I agree that the alpaca industry has long been centered around the
> idea that
> alpaca farmers had money to spend. That was part of the image many
> people
> bought into when they bought their alpacas. After all, sell a $30,000
> alpaca and you can cover a lot of show stall fees, advertisements and
> sponsorships. Most of us have never sold an alpaca for $30,000 (or
> anything
> close to it) but we may well have paid that much for one, so now for
> us the
> prices seem rather out of line because reality is setting in.
>
> As an AOBA member you d0 have every right to complain. Please make
> sure
> your complaints are based on facts, not rumors, and that you direct
> them to
> the ears of the AOBA board members. They have been elected to guide
> our
> organization, and they need to hear from every member that has an
> opinion
> about how things are going. But don't get too hard on them - they
> serve as
> unpaid volunteers who do what they do because they believe in this
> industry.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Don Stanwyck
>
> Carnation, WA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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posted by Chaddo at 10:46 PM 0 comments

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RE: [AlpacaTalk] Let them eat cake.

Heather:

As a recent affiliate board member and (until last week) a member of the
Affiliate Congress, I want to correct a few minor errors in your post.

1) Stall fees and show entry fees are set by the show sponsor (local
affiliate), not by AOBA. As one who has helped create a budget for a show,
I assure you that most shows in our industry charge over $200/stall because
their cost structures require that just to cover expenses.

2) The federal government required AOBA to spin off the for-profit
organization, not because they were making money (they weren't), but because
of the kinds of activities they were involved in and how they related to the
charter. I think there are those who were closer to the action on this who
can provide more detailed comment if you need it.

3) I've never seen a livestock show where the stall fees were $25 other
than my local county fair - and it didn't have to lease the facilities, pay
judges, etc., because the fairgrounds had already been paid for by my taxes
and the judges were 4H volunteers, not trained, certified, judges who make
their livings judging shows.

I agree that the alpaca industry has long been centered around the idea that
alpaca farmers had money to spend. That was part of the image many people
bought into when they bought their alpacas. After all, sell a $30,000
alpaca and you can cover a lot of show stall fees, advertisements and
sponsorships. Most of us have never sold an alpaca for $30,000 (or anything
close to it) but we may well have paid that much for one, so now for us the
prices seem rather out of line because reality is setting in.

As an AOBA member you d0 have every right to complain. Please make sure
your complaints are based on facts, not rumors, and that you direct them to
the ears of the AOBA board members. They have been elected to guide our
organization, and they need to hear from every member that has an opinion
about how things are going. But don't get too hard on them - they serve as
unpaid volunteers who do what they do because they believe in this industry.

Thanks,

Don Stanwyck

Carnation, WA

From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Heather Zeleny
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:25 PM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Let them eat cake.

Oh for goodness sake, I would not ban someone for disagreeing with me!
You must have me confused with someone else! ;>

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I won't try to suppress
anyone's point of view. I don't know if you were a member here last
year when I was actually threatened by someone, and had all manner of
horrible thing said to and about me. I never banned any of those
people.

I'm sorry that you think my words and attitude sound like sour grapes.
As an AOBA member, I have every right to complain about the way its
run. There are those who have said to others that they have no right to
complain if they aren't even a member. So which is it, take my ball and
play by myself, or work to change the way things are?

I don't begrudge those rich folks their money, but the regressive
pricing scheme that AOBA presents to us little fishes just makes it
that much harder for us to compete. $5k for ILA? Pocket change to
those big guys. But for some people, it's 10-25% of their entire gross
annual income. Not so many of us have that kind of cash lying around.
$1500-5000 more for the AOBA "benefactor" program. Per year. Again,
pocket change for some, a major portion of one;s monthly income for
others. $795 for FRG? One week's pay, or possibly closer to two weeks
pay for some. Sour grapes?

I'm not disenfranchised, I'm an activist. Always have been. I look at
unfairness and speak out against it. Why on earth does AOBA need to
spin off a for profit corporation if they are in such dire need of
funds? They can't be that broke if they're making too much money to
qualify as a non-profit... It just doesn't add up.

People write to me all the time privately and tell me what's on their
minds. I am by no means the only person who is dissatisfied with the
status quo. I have seen benefits whittled away over the years, and with
these "Benefactor" membership levels, what everyone used to have access
to, now only those fat cats can grasp. I say it's not right! AOBA is
OURS! Those benefits they keep taking away are OURS!

To answer your question as to why I bother being an AOBA member, well I
am the fleece show superintendent for our local affiliate. I can't do
that volunteer job unless I shell out the $125 AOBA farm membership
plus the $50 Show Division membership, plus my affiliate dues. I pay
$250 for the opportunity to spend countless hours without pay to put on
the fleece show. :) But I enjoy doing it, and I get a lot of pride in
doing it. Is is worth that $250? Obviously, because I pay it!

That's another thing that really makes me angry about AOBA's greed. The
non-show division member fee per show! I mean really, does it really
cost AOBA $75 per show per breeder for them to enter an AOBA sanctioned
show? $25 per show is much more reasonable, and people could enter more
shows if they have limited funds.

My sarcasm about the stalling rates at Nationals? Well, at other
livestock shows, stalls are $25. Entry fees are $15. How is the same
stall worth so much more money simply because it's occupied by an
alpaca? I do not see it.

I think it's pretty sad, when someone has a legitimate complaint, they
are told to shut up and stop causing trouble. If you don't like it,
leave. Well I'm sorry but I can't do that. I am a member, and I do have
a say!

Heather

On Nov 10, 2008, at 8:53 PM, Patti Jennings wrote:

> Heather
> I am not an "active" participant of this group; I have been reading it
> with interest over several months. I have watched this particular
> discussion and previous similar ones can no longer remain silent.
> Heather, I realize that this is "Your" group. You certainly have the
> right to express your opinion because you do 'own' (for lack of a
> better word) the group. However

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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posted by Chaddo at 10:26 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Let them eat cake.

Oh for goodness sake, I would not ban someone for disagreeing with me!
You must have me confused with someone else! ;>

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I won't try to suppress
anyone's point of view. I don't know if you were a member here last
year when I was actually threatened by someone, and had all manner of
horrible thing said to and about me. I never banned any of those
people.

I'm sorry that you think my words and attitude sound like sour grapes.
As an AOBA member, I have every right to complain about the way its
run. There are those who have said to others that they have no right to
complain if they aren't even a member. So which is it, take my ball and
play by myself, or work to change the way things are?

I don't begrudge those rich folks their money, but the regressive
pricing scheme that AOBA presents to us little fishes just makes it
that much harder for us to compete. $5k for ILA? Pocket change to
those big guys. But for some people, it's 10-25% of their entire gross
annual income. Not so many of us have that kind of cash lying around.
$1500-5000 more for the AOBA "benefactor" program. Per year. Again,
pocket change for some, a major portion of one;s monthly income for
others. $795 for FRG? One week's pay, or possibly closer to two weeks
pay for some. Sour grapes?

I'm not disenfranchised, I'm an activist. Always have been. I look at
unfairness and speak out against it. Why on earth does AOBA need to
spin off a for profit corporation if they are in such dire need of
funds? They can't be that broke if they're making too much money to
qualify as a non-profit... It just doesn't add up.

People write to me all the time privately and tell me what's on their
minds. I am by no means the only person who is dissatisfied with the
status quo. I have seen benefits whittled away over the years, and with
these "Benefactor" membership levels, what everyone used to have access
to, now only those fat cats can grasp. I say it's not right! AOBA is
OURS! Those benefits they keep taking away are OURS!

To answer your question as to why I bother being an AOBA member, well I
am the fleece show superintendent for our local affiliate. I can't do
that volunteer job unless I shell out the $125 AOBA farm membership
plus the $50 Show Division membership, plus my affiliate dues. I pay
$250 for the opportunity to spend countless hours without pay to put on
the fleece show. :) But I enjoy doing it, and I get a lot of pride in
doing it. Is is worth that $250? Obviously, because I pay it!

That's another thing that really makes me angry about AOBA's greed. The
non-show division member fee per show! I mean really, does it really
cost AOBA $75 per show per breeder for them to enter an AOBA sanctioned
show? $25 per show is much more reasonable, and people could enter more
shows if they have limited funds.

My sarcasm about the stalling rates at Nationals? Well, at other
livestock shows, stalls are $25. Entry fees are $15. How is the same
stall worth so much more money simply because it's occupied by an
alpaca? I do not see it.

I think it's pretty sad, when someone has a legitimate complaint, they
are told to shut up and stop causing trouble. If you don't like it,
leave. Well I'm sorry but I can't do that. I am a member, and I do have
a say!

Heather

On Nov 10, 2008, at 8:53 PM, Patti Jennings wrote:

> Heather
> I am not an "active" participant of this group; I have been reading it
> with interest over several months.  I have watched this particular
> discussion and previous similar ones can no longer remain silent. 
> Heather, I realize that this is "Your" group.  You certainly have the
> right to express your opinion because you do 'own' (for lack of a
> better word) the group.  However

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posted by Chaddo at 9:25 PM 0 comments

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Let them eat cake.

Heather
I am not an "active" participant of this group; I have been reading it with interest over several months.  I have watched this particular discussion and previous similar ones can no longer remain silent.  Heather, I realize that this is "Your" group.  You certainly have the right to express your opinion because you do 'own' (for lack of a better word) the group.  However…in the interest of a truly better industry and encouraging new farms and overall excitement about the Alpaca Industry as a whole, I believe you are doing a great disservice. Many people (like me) joined this group as we were getting into the industry or researching it.  We look for information that, combined with others, will help us make sound decisions regarding the care, health and wellbeing of our herd as well as the business of alpacas. 
It would appear based on your remarks that you have been disenfranchised at some point in time by AOBA; Alpacanation; the "good ole boys"; and all others associated with said organizations.  Your sarcastic comments regarding the price of the stalls at AOBA sounded more like sour grapes that someone who wants to work to promote the industry and the alpaca community as a whole.  If you are so sure that the aforementioned associations and business are simply greedy and do not use the funds to promote the industry, then why in the world would you subject yourself to the torture of belonging to an organization you despise so much?  If the "good ole boys" and Big farms are the thorn in your side, why not just ignore them rather than torment yourself and trying making others feel your disdain by your remarks.  Many of us, whether we have personally done business with them or not, respect the Big Farms and good ole boys, because they ARE Big and
successful and have been in the business a long time. 
Heather, you express so many wonderful ideas and experiences.  I, as have many others, have enjoyed and learned from you, but when you waste so much time and energy trying to bad mouth the Big Farms, AOBA, the good ole boys etc, you lose your credibility and sound  petty and jealous; rather than the intelligent, kind person you appear to be  on most occaisions.
There are many avenues for marketing, buying and selling alpacas.  What is right and good for one person may be totally wrong for another.  But that should be their decision and discovery.  When people ask for assistance here, one would assume that they want experiences and recommendations based on facts not JUST negativity.  The good news to this is that in spite of the economic scares being thrown around, there are still many good business opportunities.  Alpacas happen to be one where the reward is more than simply financial. 
Success breeds competition.  There are many new organizations and opportunities for breeders of all sizes.  Everyday breeders are looking and creating new marketing tools to promote the industry I would love to hear the "experiences" of those who have used some of these organizations and venues.  NOT just a complaint of the price and personnel. 
Something is only expensive if it doesn't work!  $225 for a stall is peanuts IF it works and exceeds the expectations of those who pay the price.  But never pay $1 or $225 and put nothing else into it and expect great rewards.  We have to do our part as well.   
 Many reading this may have never participated in a discussion (like I was until tonight).  I accept the fact that I might be totally off base and am willing to take that chance and accept the comments and criticisms as they come.  I am not trying to insult you, Heather.  You do a remarkable job keeping this group going and interesting.  A much better job that most.  It is my sincere hope that you accept my comments in the manner in which I intend them:   Constructive discussion in an effort to improve the overall heath and attitudes of the alpaca industry.
Thank you for the opportunity to express my thoughts.  If you ban me for my comments so be it. 
Patti Jennings
WillowBend Alpaca Farm
Forreston, IL
patti@willowbendalpaca.com

--- On Tue, 11/11/08, Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com> wrote:

From: Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com>
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Let them eat cake.
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 1:13 AM


Wooooo! Looky what came in the inbox this afternoon!

Pre-Sale Stall registration until Dec 19 is ONLY $225 per stall! Which
can house 2 animals.

On or after Jan 12, price is $275.

I have no idea how much it might cost between Dec 19 and Jan 12.

And they just don't understand why membership and participation is
down, and so many shows have been cancelled.

AOBA, the membership has no bread!

Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Creswell, OR

541.895.0964

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
http://www.whitelot usalpacas. com
http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ AlpacaTalk/ join


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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posted by Chaddo at 8:53 PM 0 comments

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Let them eat cake.

Oh yes, I love alpacas is the brainchild of the leader of the old boy's
club. If you don't have $5k in addition to participating in the FRG and
Herdsire edition of Alpacas Magazine, forget it. And if you don't do
the FRG, you have to wait 45 days or something to buy leads at 3 times
the price that the breeders with deep pockets have to pay. That is the
most regressive pricing scheme, it really makes me bitter and angry.
Make the poor people pay 3 or 4 times as much as the rich guys! Ya!

To us little guys, it looks like "they" just want all the money and all
the business. So, I choose to participate in a different playground. I
do business with small, local breeders. I have contacts and
acquaintances across the country, and have actually done some business
cross-country, now that I think of it. :) And I prefer it that way.
Every animal I've sold is loved by its new family, as much as I've
loved them. I am so glad they weren't bought by some mega-farm where
they're identified by a number tag.

I haven't had much luck selling on AlpacaNation, I believe that they
could surely lower their rates for farm accounts by now. They rake in
so much money from all of those banner ads with weekly and monthly
rotations, and those ads are not cheap, even the cheap ones! I don't
know if AlpacaStreet is producing any better results. The best response
I get is from AlpacaMarket yahoo group. And that's free!

I keep saying the economy has got to improve at some point. :) Doesn't
it? And we can be sure that we will get new breeders thanks to
increased exposure from free things like the WSJ article.

Heather

On Nov 10, 2008, at 6:03 PM, Gary & Maryann Simpson wrote:

> Heather:
>
> Are you a member of I Love Alpacas?
> I called & it's like $5,000 a year. Is anybody else here on there?
> I was wondering if the benefit was worth the money.
> Also is anybody having any luck with Alpaca Street?
> I see a little traffic from there, but not that much.
> I'm less than a year into this, but I have some opinions.
> The main opinion is that the growth in the industry is going to
> come from new people, not existing farms.
> So marketing most anything except breedings to existing farms is
> not very effective.
>
> I have some ideas that I would like to get some feedback on, but
> would like to hear from some of the people here first on the above.
> Thanks,
> Gary Simpson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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posted by Chaddo at 7:05 PM 0 comments

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Let them eat cake.

Hi Gary,

The first web site I ever visited was I Love Alpacas, and I ended up buying from one of the farms listed.? The only reason it was the first site I visited was it was the ad I saw on TV (not an AOBA ad) after I read something about alpacas in the local newspaper.? But I have noticed that the farms listed in my region have decreased since the first time I visited it in 2004.? I also haven't seen an ILA ad in a long time.? I still would love to be on the listing, but 5K is a big chunk of change for me.? But the point of it (from what I have read from both Libby and Jerry) is to have it a smaller community of about 100 farms.

Basically I see all advertising as good advertising.? To be a part of a 100 farm group is a good thing in my opinion - I just can't justify it at this point because I basically don't have anything to sell.

Heidi Christensen
WingNut Farm Alpacas
Graham WA
(253) 846-2168 or (253) 592-0200
www.wingnut-alpacas.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary & Maryann Simpson <info1@tri-valleyalpacas.com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 6:03 pm
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Let them eat cake.

Heather:

Are you a member of I Love Alpacas?
I called & it's like $5,000 a year. Is anybody else here on there?
I was wondering if the benefit was worth the money.
Also is anybody having any luck with Alpaca Street?
I see a little traffic from there, but not that much.
I'm less than a year into this, but I have some opinions.
The main opinion is that the growth in the industry is going to
come from new people, not existing farms.
So marketing most anything except breedings to existing farms is
not very effective.

I have some ideas that I would like to get some feedback on, but
would like to hear from some of the people here first on the above.
Thanks,
Gary Simpson

----- Original Message -----
From: Heather Zeleny
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:13 PM
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Let them eat cake.

Wooooo! Looky what came in the inbox this afternoon!

Pre-Sale Stall registration until Dec 19 is ONLY $225 per stall! Which
can house 2 animals.

On or after Jan 12, price is $275.

I have no idea how much it might cost between Dec 19 and Jan 12.

And they just don't understand why membership and participation is
down, and so many shows have been cancelled.

AOBA, the membership has no bread!

Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Creswell, OR

541.895.0964

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
http://www.whitelotusalpacas.com
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join

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posted by Chaddo at 6:56 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Let them eat cake.

Heather:

Are you a member of I Love Alpacas?
I called & it's like $5,000 a year. Is anybody else here on there?
I was wondering if the benefit was worth the money.
Also is anybody having any luck with Alpaca Street?
I see a little traffic from there, but not that much.
I'm less than a year into this, but I have some opinions.
The main opinion is that the growth in the industry is going to
come from new people, not existing farms.
So marketing most anything except breedings to existing farms is
not very effective.

I have some ideas that I would like to get some feedback on, but
would like to hear from some of the people here first on the above.
Thanks,
Gary Simpson

----- Original Message -----
From: Heather Zeleny
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 8:13 PM
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Let them eat cake.

Wooooo! Looky what came in the inbox this afternoon!

Pre-Sale Stall registration until Dec 19 is ONLY $225 per stall! Which
can house 2 animals.

On or after Jan 12, price is $275.

I have no idea how much it might cost between Dec 19 and Jan 12.

And they just don't understand why membership and participation is
down, and so many shows have been cancelled.

AOBA, the membership has no bread!

Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Creswell, OR

541.895.0964

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
http://www.whitelotusalpacas.com
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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posted by Chaddo at 6:03 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

[AlpacaTalk] Let them eat cake.

Wooooo! Looky what came in the inbox this afternoon!

Pre-Sale Stall registration until Dec 19 is ONLY $225 per stall! Which
can house 2 animals.

On or after Jan 12, price is $275.

I have no idea how much it might cost between Dec 19 and Jan 12.

And they just don't understand why membership and participation is
down, and so many shows have been cancelled.

AOBA, the membership has no bread!

Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Creswell, OR

541.895.0964

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
http://www.whitelotusalpacas.com
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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Join Mod. Central

stay connected.

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posted by Chaddo at 5:13 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Beet Pulp

That's correct, the beet pulp(BP) I'm using IS shredded NOT pellet form.   My recollection from past posts is that the shredded is ok to feed dry.  Have I misunderstood??   Also, my initial question had to do w/ the molasses....is the small amout of molasses in shredded BP a concern for alpacas?   Then, if anyone else is using SHREDDED form....what amount are you giving to prego/lactating moms OR for weight gain.
Possibly 1/8 cup is not enough to do any good.   thanks for your replies.

P.S.  I hope no one takes offense at the all caps.  It's used for clarification only,
not as "cyberspace yelling".
 
Deb Weideman --  Just Hmmmin' Along
Eagle Wing Acres,LLC
www.alpacanation.com/eaglewingacres.asp
Pray for our Nation....God answers "knee"mail

________________________________
From: "Radched@aol.com" <Radched@aol.com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 5:55:51 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Beet Pulp

The beet pulp Deb is talking about is shredded as opposed to the pellets.? I have never seen the shredded stuff, but understand it doesn't swell up as much (at all?) like the pellets do.

I get the pellets and just put them in a bucket and bring them in the house to soak overnight.? Don't use hot water, and actually tried hot water to see if it would shorten the soak time.? I looked after 4 hours and it still was "pellety" so just do it overnight.

Heidi Christensen
WingNut Farm Alpacas
Graham WA
(253) 846-2168 or (253) 592-0200
www.wingnut- alpacas.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Rademacher <chuck@alpacafarm. co.nz>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:14 am
Subject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Beet Pulp

Hi Deb,

Steve or Ruthanne will probably comment, but I would be very concerned about
feeding beet pulp to alpacas without soaking it first. Try soaking a sample
and you will see how much it swells up when water has been added. I think
it could be quite harmful to your alpacas to have their feed swell up so
much after they eat it.

I realise that you've been feeding it without soaking for years with no
problems. Feeding such a small quantity (1/8 cup) may be the reason you've
had no problems.

Everyone should be careful to not leave un-soaked beet pulp or pellets where
alpacas can get into it.

All the best,

Chuck Rademacher
Kaipara Pines Alpaca Stud
2247 South Head Road, RD 1
Helensville, New Zealand 0874
Phone: 09-420-2133 Mobile: 027-204-9406

www.alpacafarm. co.nz

-----Original Message-----
From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com]On
Behalf Of DEBORAH WEIDEMAN
Sent: Tuesday, 11 November 2008 7:52 a.m.
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Beet Pulp

I've used beet pulp(BP) for a few yrs.now..... I've used the shredded w/
some molasses and have never soaked it. The BP is mixed directly into the
pellets, so that each serving probably gets about 1/8 cup of dried shredded
BP. However, w/ colder weather now, I will consider the warm water soaking,
but what a hassle hauling hot water from the house. Has anyone tried the
"water bucket HEATERS"?? (not just the "de-icers"). I think they are
suppose to actually "heat" the water not just keep it from freezing??
Another question I have is, if molasses is used in other ruminant feeds,
like for cattle, sheep....why is it unhealthy for alpacas? Of course,
anything in excess can be a no-no, but is there really that much molasses in
beet pulp?? As you can probably already figure out, the beet pulp I get
locally & readily, HAS molasses in it....should I discontinue feeding it??

Deb Weideman -- Just Hmmmin' Along
Eagle Wing Acres,LLC
www.alpacasofeaglew ingacres. com
Pray for our Nation....God answers "knee"mail

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Allison Moss-Fritch <aemoss17@comcast. net>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 9, 2008 3:01:03 PM
Subject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Beet Pulp

Hi List,

Steve Hull says that Beet pulp is great stuff..however, he and Dr. Ruth
both
warn against using molasses added products on alpacas who don't digest the
sugar like a horse would. So.for the pacas.plain beet pulp, added slowly
to
the diet as Laurel reminds us..is the very best way to use this nice
stuff!

Allison Moss-Fritch

New Moon Alpacas

Santa Clara, CA

From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@ yahoogro ups.com] On
Behalf Of BaileysFjords@ aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 7:57 AM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Beet Pulp

Hello,

We use beet pulp daily for our aged Fjord stallion who has had problems
over
the last couple of years keeping weight on.? We have had so much success
with this that we now supplement our sheep and last year, our Angora goats
(before I sold the herd of goats), with it during the winter.? We also use
beet pulp mash for our ewes during their last days of pregnancy and right
after labor to help warm them up quickly.?

We use however much beet pulp we have designated per animal-making sure it
is the kind that has molasses added-then cover it with extremely hot water
to where one can see the water barely covering the beet pulp.? We stir it
a
few times and let it sit for at least 1/2 hour to hour, then top dress it
with whatever grain is being fed to each animal.? For example, with our
aged
stallion and the ewes, they would get a cup of grain, not pellets, plus
some
broken up alfafa cubes-just a few, for taste.? Our stallion this year
cannot
eat?the cubes well, so we went to an alfafa powder.? We turn the bucket
over
into the feed pan so the grain and alfafa is on the bottom of the feed
pan.

We have never had any animal turn their noses up and the pans are empty
right away.? Hope this helps!? We are convinced our stallion would not be
with us today without the beet pulp because he just was not interested in
any of the "normal" senior diets.? Our sheep LOVE it.

Bailey's
White Cloud, MI
231-225-8855
spinner@wildblue. net <mailto:spinner% 40wildblue. net>
www.thebaileystore. info

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Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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posted by Chaddo at 4:37 PM 0 comments