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Monday, March 15, 2010

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Stock feed or sweet feed

 

Oh, I forgot to mention alfalfa pellets. They are also 14-16% protein, and I supplement my alpacas with either those or dairy grade alfalfa hay. I give it to the entire herd in the coldest months, and we give it to nursing dams. Pellets we feed 1 cup per head, per day. Hay, well, we give one flake per 5 or so head, per day. 


Alfalfa pellets are the larger pellets, and until they get used to eating them, they can have some choke. It's safe to soften them a day ahead of feeding. I drizzle some water on them and let them sit overnight. And, 50 lbs of alfalfa pellets is only $10. Alfalfa hay is around $18 for a 125 lb bale, I think. 

You can get along quite nicely with your good grass hay, alfalfa hay or pellets, and Stillwater 104. 

I'd do my best to avoid corn most especially. We lost a color champion to a perforated ulcer on her first birthday. 

Dr Cebra of OSU has been speaking out about corn in livestock feed for years, and he says alpaca deaths from perforated ulcers are more common than one would imagine. Corn is a major suspect.


Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece

On Mar 15, 2010, at 10:14 PM, barngirrl@aol.com wrote:

Ken - try to find llama pellets instead, they are much less expensive and very similar, if not identical to alpaca pellets.
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA


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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Stock feed or sweet feed

 

Ken - try to find llama pellets instead, they are much less expensive and very similar, if not identical to alpaca pellets.
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Blood sample for ARI registry

 

I wait until spring when the alpacas are tied down for shearing.  There is a large vein on the inside hind leg that is easily accessible and GREAT for drawing blood, plus they can't move.  That's the only way I'll draw blood now.  It makes life so much easier for me and for the alpacas.
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Blood sample for ARI registry

 

Can someone explain how to get cria blood from the afterbirth?  Thanks!
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: Stock feed or sweet feed

 

Hi Janice:
The scratch grain I am talking about is not a processed feed. You could make your own by taking wheat, oats, and cracked corn and mixing them up. The wheat and oats are whole grains just as they come from the combine only with the dust removed. Due to it's hard shell the corn must be cracked so that it begins to break down earlier in the digestive process. There may also be a small amount of cracked soy beans also. This product is readily available from any feed store in my area.

By small choke problem I meant that the incidences of choke rarely happen. I can not judge how severe of a choke this might cause although the grains are quite small. We have however had only one such incident in the past four years. This was a mild choke that corrected itself with two or three hacking coughs.

Just for some prospective, we have twenty animals, including last years crea, and have fed scratch grain at least once a day for four years. One incident of choke in that length of time and across twenty animals seems to me to be quite low.

And so it goes chasing the dream.
 
By for now, Wayne
http://jubileeacres.net
http://wordsmith.fateback.com
http://bramblewoods.com/



From: "jelizabethfarms1@bellsouth.net" <jelizabethfarms1@bellsouth.net>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 7:50:00 PM
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] RE: Stock feed or sweet feed

<<<The scratch grain that we buy consists of the following mostly whole
grains. Wheat, oats and a small amount of cracked corn, with the wheat
being the most abundant ingredient. A mineral and vitamin supplement is
fed separately and free choice.

There is a small chance of choking with this feed, mostly with over
eager crea. We have had one minor case of choke in, I think, four years.>>>


I am fascinated with this; it is the first time I have ever heard of
anyone feeding their alpacas chix feed!  Personally I have gotten away
from corn for all my animals.  I feel it is a toxic feed (due to GMO). 
But this has been such a cold winter here that I have broken down and
gotten some cracked corn to throw out for the chickens.    The alpacas
LOVE it and I am always running around trying to shoo them out as I
thougtht corn would be just horrible for them.  Did I read that
somewhere or dream it up?
The other questions would be about possible copper toxicity?  But
perhaps the scratch is not fortified as the feed is come to think of it.
One of my females LOVES the chix pellets; we have had to fortify and
re-fortify the chicken pen gate to keep her out; she is always watching
for us to forget to close that gate securely (we now have to prop a
stick up against it so she can't push it open) and takes every
opportunity to stretch the bungy cord that holds the door almost closed
(we leave it open just enough for the chix to get in, but not anyone
else.) and go in and eat all the chix pellets she can gorge on before we
discover her and run her out.  I am always terrified she is going to
bloat or have some sort of intestinal blockage and die on me.  But
there is no denying she loves that stuff.

So should I stop worrying about them eating chix feed and scratch
corn?  I"d love to hear more input about this.
When you say small chance of choke - do you mean there is a minimal
chance of choke?  Or there is a chance of choke, tho small, more so than
with with pellets? 

I picked up a bag of sheep minerals at Tractor Supply today; just got
home so haven't had a chance to get it out and try it yet.
But after seeing Heather mention the Stillwater 104 vitamin and mineral
supplement I would be interested to know more about that product - price
and where you get it.    I would like to get mine off the pelleted
feed/grain altogether and move to a more natural option with the
addition of vitamins and minerals.  Maybe the chix scratch is the
answer.  The formula I am buying is cheap; but I am tired of having to
drive to the next town to pick it up and I just don't see that it can be
any good for them as cheap as it is....and the label says basically
nothing about what is *really* made of.    If there is a more natural
formula that is also cheap I would prefer to go that route.....and
chicken scratch is certainly cheap.

I have been looking into growing my own chicken feed - Amaranth and
comfrey are the 2 plants I am planning on at this time and still
gathering info.  It would be great to be able to grow some fresh greens
for the alpacas as well.  My guys absolutely adore privit and I have a
lot of it around here, but it also makes good honey so don't like to cut
too much of it for them until after the bees have worked it and it has
stopped blooming.  I wish I had the acerage, the equipment and the
knowledge to grow my own hay - that is definitely the best way to go.   
But it is my go to plant whenever one of my guys goes off feed.  If I
offer a privit branch and they are interested and eat then I breathe a
sigh of relief.  If they turn their noses up at privit then I know
immediately I have a serious problem.  One of my boys, and the biggest
alpaca I have, stands on his back legs to eat out of the tops of the
privit that is out edging their woods.  He is a sight to see.  He can
stand up on those 2 back legs forever nibbling privit high up.  And when
he was born his back legs were paralyzed for the first several days,  so
it is a special treat to watch him dancing the 2 step on them!

Janice





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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Pyr vaccinations

 

Barncats and any outdoor cats should get the FVRCP vaccine and the Leukemia vaccine, even one dose has a 70% effectiveness rate.  We don't give rabies shots to our cats here because we haven't had rabies in this area for over 50 years.  We are still required by law to give the dogs rabies shots and they are good for 10 years but we have to give them every three.  What a waste of money.
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA

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RE: [AlpacaTalk] Re: cria not doing right---6 months old

 

Hi Janice,

 

I got the kind  of Thiamine you keep in the fridge---and it is good for about a year from now---so it has a decent shelf life---and it was only 3 bucks or so.

 

Tomorrow---so much is happening---we will be planting more trees, and some shrubs and plant sets---chicks are coming the next day, Wednesday also I take my Mom to the doctors. Thursday, if she is better, I can let our cria out of the creep; And, I am hoping that I will have time to get to one of the “resting” girl pastures that will need to be scooped up before I can let them out on it again.  We went to McCord Air Base for groceries today---it took about 5 hours overall---and now we have to put it all away. 

 

We still have half the fencing to do----and interior fencing to make our large (horse) style pastures into smaller paddocks suitable for pacas to eat on.  ½ is done---the other is not at all ready---so will have to be mowed.

 

If I could get it, I would love to have at least some Naxcell and Banamine on hand for emergencies---vet can direct me if he/she can’t get there quickly.

 

In any case, I appreciate your kind thoughts….have a lovely evening and a great tomorrow!

 

Allison

 

 

From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jelizabethfarms1@bellsouth.net
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:51 AM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: cria not doing right---6 months old

 

 

<<< So much of real importance is happening on the home front.We are
just trying
to set up the farm---this cria is now ill---and she is one of the nicest we
have bred in almost 6 years---So.we are hoping she will be better- I am
just about to go out to give her her 8th dose .and then I will give her more
early in the morning again. She thinks I hate her---using her for a
pincushion!>>>

Boy Allison, when it rains it sure pours. {{{{{HUG}}}}}
Your cycle will turn soon, just hang in there.
I am going to stock in some thiamine here; anyone know what the shelf
life is?
Janice

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Pyr vaccinations

 

I have raised and shown dogs for many years.  The DHLP is Distemper, Hepatitis, Leptosparosis (sp) and Parvo; pretty standard combo vaccine for dogs.  A lot of dog breeders are only doing the initial series of puppy shots and not annual boosters as it is being found that annual boosters really are unnecessary.  Even a number of vets that are now going that route.

Marsha

--- On Mon, 3/15/10, Susan Forman <susan@deweymorningalpacas.com> wrote:

From: Susan Forman <susan@deweymorningalpacas.com>
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Pyr vaccinations
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 9:29 PM

 

Janice:
Just pulled my bill and it just says DPLP x2 $40.00. I've got 2 dogs, so that's the x2. I don't have time now to look up DPLP, but I'm guessing it's a standard canine vaccine.
 
As for the dogs -- I will get rabies for the house dog, but once they pass puppyhood, they're so limited in where they go and what they are allowed to do and have no contact with other dogs to speak of, that I don't worry about the other vaccines. If I have to put them in a kennel, I'll get the kennel cough because I pretty much have to. When it comes to the pyrs though - and I admit that I haven't done my homework in terms of what diseases they could get -- whatever is recommended I'm okay with. First, they live in the elements. There's no warm house or bed to lie in. They have access to the barn 24/7 and the ONLY time they wouldn't be allowed in would be if I'm doing something and don't want their help...and when I'm done, they again have access to almost all areas. Except in summer, they have straw as bedding and if there's a bale of straw then, they'll dig at it if they want it (much to my chagrin). I've seen a 1/4 eaten rabbit in the pasture and there have been a couple of dead rats. One of the dogs seems to feel she needs to protect dead birds. I've seen them get mice in one swallow and seen a dead mole in the barn. I've never seen anything else that they've gotten -- any animal with any sense is not going to come into the pasture!..and I tend to think that most animals have more sense than a lot of humans and know that these dogs could be a quick death. In any case, I don't know where the rats, moles, birds, or rabbits have been or what they might carry that could be dangerous to the dogs. I guess I'd rather be safe than have a sick dog. I love those two and they're worth their weight in gold for the peace of mind I have because of them. So, whatever the vet says they need, I'll do.
 
AS I said, I don't have time to check now, but I bet there's a vaccine that's a multi -type called DPLP.
 
Good luck!
Susan
 
PS -- The rabies is a must -- I don't give my house cats rabies shots......they do not get out and have no contact with other animals..... ..the barn cats? $65.00 for 2 rabies shots, but worth it. God only knows where they roam and what they come into contact with....as for the other vaccines for the barn cats? Guiltily, I haven't had them vaccinated for anything but rabies....and I really like them, but.....somehow farm cats seem to disappear as I remember from my childhood... ......... but I should check it out for the safety of the dogs and alpacas...and yet I'm sure I know of plenty of cats that don't even get rabies vaccine..... ....
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:00 PM
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Pyr vaccinations

 

<<<I just have to second how much I appreciate my vet for keeping track
of the pyrs vaccines and what they need. Last year she asked me to get
the dogs.....and I reminded her that they just had a 3 yr rabies vaccine
the previous year -- she just smiled and said she knew, but there were a
couple others she felt they should have, especially given their living
arrangements.
.....don't remember which they were off hand, but given that they could
potentially be exposed to about anything, I figure we need to do
it......and was grateful for her remembering! >>>

Susan, I would be most interested to find out what particular vaccines
those were. My pyrs are coming up on 1 yr old. They had their puppy
shots.....given by me. Generally I don't vaccinate my dogs after they
are adults; but my dogs have always been GSD; always with me, in the
house, unless we are all outside and they don't go anywhere off the
property. The pyrs won't be going anywhere either (knock on wood ha),
so I wasn't thinking about anything but rabies for them. So when you
say "especially given their living arrangements" I assume you mean
outside with the alpacas and would like to know what your vet felt was
important. I unfortunately no longer have a vehicle large enough to
transport these dogs to a vet (and can't afford a vet anyway); and my
horse vet is not as willing to treat and deal with the dogs or alpacas,
tho she has been willing to get me meds for them as long as I tell her
what I want/need. So I am on my own with the alpacas and pyrs. It
will soon be time to get her out here for the horses vaccinations and if
there is something else that I will need to get from her that would be
the time to do it. If you could find out what they were I would be
most appreciative.
Janice in NW GA

Susan Forman
Dewey Morning Alpacas
Washington Court House, OH 43160
740-636-1899
http://www.alpacana tion.com/ deweymorning. asp
Home of Huey, Louie, and Dewey!

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