RE: [Alpacasite] Aggressive Feeding Behavior

I have to agree with Gary, she sounds like she is challenging authority
(regardless of the cause) and that will probably get worse if she isn't
set strait. I'd correct the behavior first and if your still worried about a

Deficiency, have the vet take a look or send some blood in for testing.

Kathryn & Robert Coursey
kathryn@coursey.org
Chipola Alpacas
in the Panhandle of Florida
www.chipolaalpacas.com
(850) 639-6809
i am a source for weeping willow trees
and white mulberry trees.

Some folks are like Slinkies,
Not good for much,
But ya just can't help but smile
When you see one tumble down the
stairs.

-------Original Message-------

From: Gary Kaufman
Date: 11/30/05 22:16:24
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Alpacasite] Aggressive Feeding Behavior

Two different questions, and the first more important one in my mind is
changing the overly 'assertive' behavior. Her inability to acknowledge
territory bounds of the human feeder needs to be changed immediately. IF she
is indeed bumping and slamming the person carrying the feed, prior to that
actually happening I would encourage a quick spin around and a forceful and
very fast swing of the arm, with an equally vocal NO. The arm swing is not
designed to actually hit the animal, but if she does 'walk into it' do not
get 'apologetic'. Just my opinion, but it is pretty important to establish
space that is inviolate and camelids do it rather forcefully at times among
one another. It needs to happen before the person is bumped, as soon as the
animal has approached the space point which in this case would be arm
length. And it needs to happen EVERY SINGLE TIME the space is invaded. They
are pretty smart critters and learn a lot faster than most people think.

I suppose she could be missing something in her diet, but that is irrelevant
nor should it be excusable for that type of behavior regardless of feeding
time being the only time it happens. We have two females who would just love
to get more 'aggressive' towards the person carrying the food be it grain or
hay, and they learned very fast that it just didn't matter what they wanted
or how far they tried to push the envelope it just wasn't going to
tolerated. It didn't take very much to get their attention and make them
realize we were in charge period at all times in all situations. And they
both will allow being approached in open pasture and haltered despite the
occasional 're-affirming' of space at feeding time.

On the flip side, when it comes to space battles amongst themselves, we make
certain there is equal and ample access to feed sources with more 'stations'
than there are animals, and let them work out who gets to eat where. Watch
the process sometime and you will see that 'space invaders' are not
tolerated. That said some animals will buddy up at a station, but it is
seems that it is always the same animals sharing by mutual consent.

Just my opinion, but establishing the same rules with you that the animals
establish with each other can really only be done by using the same
strategies they use among themselves. It starts very subtly with just flicks
of tails, ears, head raising and escalates as the violator continues to
wearing the green or even more violent interactions. Since you are already
encountering rather physical assaults, it may take more than just NO as a
word to alter the behavior. Unless of course you can mimic all the body
language they use. In this situation more would be better just to set the
tone. Just my opinion though.

Gary Kaufman

Roads End Farm, Olympia WA

<http://www.roadsendllamas.com> www.roadsendllamas.com

Home of the Northwest's Best Kept Secret

<http://www.roadsendllamas.com/Index_files/page0003.html> ROYCE

_____

From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of pacajoyce
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:01 PM
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alpacasite] Aggressive Feeding Behavior

I'm sure this question has been asked a zillion times, but here goes
again...

I have a pregnant female (5 months) agisting on a farm who has
become very aggressive in trying to get to her grain at feeding
time. She bumps the feeder in the back to the point where it hurts
and once has completely knocked her down. She body scores at 3.5
out of 5 so is a little over weight. They put her in the fat pen
and feed her first, but she's still aggressive. She's nice at all
other times, only at feeding time does she behave this way. Could
she be missing something in her diet that makes her crave her grain
more?

Any suggestions on what's causing this behavior and how to stop it?

Joyce

Joyce Judy
Alpacas del Oeste
pacajoyce@sbcglobal.net
Bay Point, CA

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RE: [Alpacasite] Aggressive Feeding Behavior

Two different questions, and the first more important one in my mind is
changing the overly 'assertive' behavior. Her inability to acknowledge
territory bounds of the human feeder needs to be changed immediately. IF she
is indeed bumping and slamming the person carrying the feed, prior to that
actually happening I would encourage a quick spin around and a forceful and
very fast swing of the arm, with an equally vocal NO. The arm swing is not
designed to actually hit the animal, but if she does 'walk into it' do not
get 'apologetic'. Just my opinion, but it is pretty important to establish
space that is inviolate and camelids do it rather forcefully at times among
one another. It needs to happen before the person is bumped, as soon as the
animal has approached the space point which in this case would be arm
length. And it needs to happen EVERY SINGLE TIME the space is invaded. They
are pretty smart critters and learn a lot faster than most people think.

I suppose she could be missing something in her diet, but that is irrelevant
nor should it be excusable for that type of behavior regardless of feeding
time being the only time it happens. We have two females who would just love
to get more 'aggressive' towards the person carrying the food be it grain or
hay, and they learned very fast that it just didn't matter what they wanted
or how far they tried to push the envelope it just wasn't going to
tolerated. It didn't take very much to get their attention and make them
realize we were in charge period at all times in all situations. And they
both will allow being approached in open pasture and haltered despite the
occasional 're-affirming' of space at feeding time.

On the flip side, when it comes to space battles amongst themselves, we make
certain there is equal and ample access to feed sources with more 'stations'
than there are animals, and let them work out who gets to eat where. Watch
the process sometime and you will see that 'space invaders' are not
tolerated. That said some animals will buddy up at a station, but it is
seems that it is always the same animals sharing by mutual consent.

Just my opinion, but establishing the same rules with you that the animals
establish with each other can really only be done by using the same
strategies they use among themselves. It starts very subtly with just flicks
of tails, ears, head raising and escalates as the violator continues to
wearing the green or even more violent interactions. Since you are already
encountering rather physical assaults, it may take more than just NO as a
word to alter the behavior. Unless of course you can mimic all the body
language they use. In this situation more would be better just to set the
tone. Just my opinion though.

Gary Kaufman

Roads End Farm, Olympia WA

<http://www.roadsendllamas.com> www.roadsendllamas.com

Home of the Northwest's Best Kept Secret

<http://www.roadsendllamas.com/Index_files/page0003.html> ROYCE

_____

From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of pacajoyce
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:01 PM
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alpacasite] Aggressive Feeding Behavior

I'm sure this question has been asked a zillion times, but here goes
again...

I have a pregnant female (5 months) agisting on a farm who has
become very aggressive in trying to get to her grain at feeding
time. She bumps the feeder in the back to the point where it hurts
and once has completely knocked her down. She body scores at 3.5
out of 5 so is a little over weight. They put her in the fat pen
and feed her first, but she's still aggressive. She's nice at all
other times, only at feeding time does she behave this way. Could
she be missing something in her diet that makes her crave her grain
more?

Any suggestions on what's causing this behavior and how to stop it?

Joyce

Joyce Judy
Alpacas del Oeste
pacajoyce@sbcglobal.net
Bay Point, CA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Alpacasite] We have a new vet and could use a little help

How about giving your new vet a copy of Murray Fowler's "blue book"
"Medicine and Surgery of South American Camelids"? I did this and my vet
refers to it all the time.

Barrie Hanslip
Sooke, BC

>
> A new large animal vet has joined our local practice and has some
> minimal experience with llamas. I'm asking the group to help me
> encourage this new vet to learn more about alpacas. We're in the
> process of trying to get her to attend a nearby 2 day vet symposium.

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Re: [Alpacasite] DNA test "blood draw" question

Does he bleed if you cut a toenail too short? It may be worth a try.

Barrie Hanslip
Sooke, BC

----- Original Message -----
From: "stanggirlbogie" <tsalpacas@peoplepc.com>
To: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:35 AM
Subject: [Alpacasite] DNA test "blood draw" question

> Hello,
>
> I just got my registration request back from ARI and it said, in a nut
> shell, that there was not enough blood. This alpaca is not a bleeder.
> The poor guy got his ear poked to much already. I even had an alpaca
> breeder friend try and that was the result "not enough blood" Please
> give me some suggestions sort of calling the vet (he is outrageous for
> barn calls). I don't want to put this guy through all that poking and
> proding again. My wallet is suffering too :-)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mary Hervatin
> Taintor Spring Alpacas
> Lewis Run, PA 16738
>

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[Alpacasite] Aggressive Feeding Behavior

I'm sure this question has been asked a zillion times, but here goes
again...

I have a pregnant female (5 months) agisting on a farm who has
become very aggressive in trying to get to her grain at feeding
time. She bumps the feeder in the back to the point where it hurts
and once has completely knocked her down. She body scores at 3.5
out of 5 so is a little over weight. They put her in the fat pen
and feed her first, but she's still aggressive. She's nice at all
other times, only at feeding time does she behave this way. Could
she be missing something in her diet that makes her crave her grain
more?

Any suggestions on what's causing this behavior and how to stop it?

Joyce

Joyce Judy
Alpacas del Oeste
pacajoyce@sbcglobal.net
Bay Point, CA

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[Alpacasite] PVC Skirting table??

Does anyone have any plans for a PVC Skirting table? It sees that I
remember some being posted sometime ago. I thought I had saved them
but can't find them now. Thanks
Audrey Conklin
West Texas Gold Alpacas
Clint, TX
aallconk@aol.com

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RE: [Alpacasite] Re: Question on Temperature Tolerance - Crias - coats

Two years ago we had a winter preemie llama born [12lbs at birth] YUP llama
at 12 lbs. Outside temps were in the teens at night and below freezing day
times. We did seclude mom and baby in a special area and bought an electric
whelping pad [one of the chain pet food stores]. Took the baby less than a
day to figure out how long and how often to lay on the pad and how much of
her body she wanted on it to stay warm.

Worked like a charm. Same concept, maybe a bit safer than hanging lamps. The
cord is wrapped in protective wiring designed to keep enthusiastic puppies
from chewing on it, is double insulated and we made certain to plug into a
GFCI plug.

Gary Kaufman

Roads End Farm, Olympia WA

<http://www.roadsendllamas.com> www.roadsendllamas.com

Home of the Northwest's Best Kept Secret

<http://www.roadsendllamas.com/Index_files/page0003.html> ROYCE

Instead, we put a heating lamp in the one
corner, so the baby could curl up under it but mom could stay away
if she wanted (of course she wanted nothing to do with the
heat...lol). We use a chicken lamp so we know how hot it gets and
how high to set it up from the pacas.
So, if you do put a coat on, keep a close eye on mom, and the rest
of the herd, to make sure that the coat is acceptable.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Alpacasite] Parasite control

Just as food for thought......................I have a friend who lost 4
alpacas over a period of 4-6 months pastured on a property dominated by
Garry Oaks. We were not able to find a cause of death, even with
necropsies, so took the surviving animals off this property. They have been
okay since that.

I guessed that the problem on this property was either something in the
water, or the oaks. This property has been grazed by both goats and sheep
for many years with no similar problems. Whatever, I feel we saved the
lives of survivors by removing them from that place.

Barrie Hanslip
Sooke, BC

> I have seen prior references to tannins as a parasite control. Black
> walnut shavings are a problem with bedding for horses and the tannins in
> oak leaves, bark, and acorns can be a problem when ingested apparently
> in large quantities. From Drs. Walter & Knight, "The principal toxin
> [of oak] is gallotannin, a polyhydroxphenolic combination of tannic and
> gallic acid. The tannins found in the leaves, bark, and acorns of oaks
> produce poisoning through their effect on the intestinal tract and
> kidneys. Gallotannins are hydrolyzed in the rumen to smaller molecular
> weight compounds including gallic acid, pyrogallol, and resorcinol.

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Re: [Alpacasite]

Hi Cathy,

I will contact you privately, but in case anyone else is interested
in this legislation, they could contact Assemblyman William Magee
at: http://assembly.state.ny.us/mem/?ad=111&sh=con
The article published in Grassroots, from the New York Farm Bureau,
can be accessed at:
http://www.nyfb.org/Grassroots/grass0905/alpacas.htm
Senator Pat McGee, co-sponsor of the legislation, passed away
unexpectedly in April, 2005.

Also, the New York Farm Bureau should be able to assist you
further: http://www.nyfb.org/

I hope this is of help, otherwise I could look into it in more detail for you.

Dave

David & Esther Friedman
Adirondack Alpacas
"From the Womb to the Loom"
9568 Old Stage Road
Remsen, NY 13438
www.newyorkalpacas.com
315-831-3040

At 06:40 PM 11/30/2005, you wrote:
>David could you provide me with a farm agent that I can call to get
>information on NY considering alpacas livestock. Thanks Cathy
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "David Friedman" <alpacas@adelphia.net>
>To: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:51 PM
>Subject: Re: [Alpacasite]
>
>
> > Cathy,
> >
> > New York State considers alpacas to be livestock.
> >
> > Dave Friedman
> >
> > At 03:54 PM 11/30/2005, you wrote:
> >>Here is a new one that I really need some help with. Recently I
> >>filed a loan app. with FSA and today received a denial to my loan
> >>because "alpacas are not considered farm animals" and they do not
> >>consider them a farm enterprise. I know that they are farm animals
> >>and need to show this person who knows notheing about alpacas that
> >>they are farm animals not just exotics. If any one has any thing to
> >>show this rep I would appreciate it including any state where the
> >>Farm Service does consider alpacas farm animals. I have 30 days to
> >>put together a package for reconsideration. I am trying to expand
> >>my already owned farm to one that can produce an alpaca income in
> >>just a couple of years instead of one that starts with a few animals
> >>and has to wait to see his/her FARM grow to an endeavor showing an
> >>income. Thanks in advance. Cathy Stephenson
> >>StephenOakes Farms
> >>Chester, SC
> >>You can also email me privately at midnightfire@chestertel.com
> >>
> >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >>
> >>
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RE: [Alpacasite]

Hello,

Two of my sons have FSA Youth Loans, through Alaska's USDA FSA. You can
contact their Palmer, Alaska office for help, perhaps. I believe that they
have had others also apply for (and possibly receive) loans for alpacas.

Hope this helps,
Monica

Monica L. Molinar
Licensed Massage Therapist - A Time To Heal
Alpaca Breeder & Fiber Artist - Arctic Alpacas
Licensed Realtor - ERA Northern Lights Realty

907.322.3105
E: Monica@Molinar.org
W: http://Molinar.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Cathy Stephenson
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 11:55 AM
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alpacasite]

Here is a new one that I really need some help with. Recently I filed a loan
app. with FSA and today received a denial to my loan because "alpacas are
not considered farm animals" and they do not consider them a farm
enterprise. I know that they are farm animals and need to show this person
who knows notheing about alpacas that they are farm animals not just
exotics. If any one has any thing to show this rep I would appreciate it
including any state where the Farm Service does consider alpacas farm
animals. I have 30 days to put together a package for reconsideration. I
am trying to expand my already owned farm to one that can produce an alpaca
income in just a couple of years instead of one that starts with a few
animals and has to wait to see his/her FARM grow to an endeavor showing an
income. Thanks in advance. Cathy Stephenson StephenOakes Farms Chester, SC
You can also email me privately at midnightfire@chestertel.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Alpacasite]

David could you provide me with a farm agent that I can call to get
information on NY considering alpacas livestock. Thanks Cathy
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Friedman" <alpacas@adelphia.net>
To: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Alpacasite]

> Cathy,
>
> New York State considers alpacas to be livestock.
>
> Dave Friedman
>
> At 03:54 PM 11/30/2005, you wrote:
>>Here is a new one that I really need some help with. Recently I
>>filed a loan app. with FSA and today received a denial to my loan
>>because "alpacas are not considered farm animals" and they do not
>>consider them a farm enterprise. I know that they are farm animals
>>and need to show this person who knows notheing about alpacas that
>>they are farm animals not just exotics. If any one has any thing to
>>show this rep I would appreciate it including any state where the
>>Farm Service does consider alpacas farm animals. I have 30 days to
>>put together a package for reconsideration. I am trying to expand
>>my already owned farm to one that can produce an alpaca income in
>>just a couple of years instead of one that starts with a few animals
>>and has to wait to see his/her FARM grow to an endeavor showing an
>>income. Thanks in advance. Cathy Stephenson
>>StephenOakes Farms
>>Chester, SC
>>You can also email me privately at midnightfire@chestertel.com
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
>>the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
>>message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
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>>
>>
>>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
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>><http://aaalpacas.com>http://aaalpacas.com
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Re: [Alpacasite]

Yes they had an article in the Grassroots (The voice of NY farm Bureau) Sept 2005

NY farm bureau supported recently passed state legislation sponsored by Senator McGee and Assemblyman Magee amending the Ag and Markets law to include alpacas as wool bearing livestock.
This designation places alpaca breeders within the states agricultural districts, thereby encouaging the fledgling industry with Right to farm protections and agricultural tax assessments

David Friedman <alpacas@adelphia.net> wrote:
Cathy,

New York State considers alpacas to be livestock.

Dave Friedman

At 03:54 PM 11/30/2005, you wrote:
>Here is a new one that I really need some help with. Recently I
>filed a loan app. with FSA and today received a denial to my loan
>because "alpacas are not considered farm animals" and they do not
>consider them a farm enterprise. I know that they are farm animals
>and need to show this person who knows notheing about alpacas that
>they are farm animals not just exotics. If any one has any thing to
>show this rep I would appreciate it including any state where the
>Farm Service does consider alpacas farm animals. I have 30 days to
>put together a package for reconsideration. I am trying to expand
>my already owned farm to one that can produce an alpaca income in
>just a couple of years instead of one that starts with a few animals
>and has to wait to see his/her FARM grow to an endeavor showing an
>income. Thanks in advance. Cathy Stephenson
>StephenOakes Farms
>Chester, SC
>You can also email me privately at midnightfire@chestertel.com
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
>the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
>message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
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>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@alpacaweb.com
><http://aaalpacas.com>http://aaalpacas.com
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Alpacas came home 9-11-04
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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Question on Temperature Tolerance - Crias - coats

Laura, I should have read your post prior to responding. Seems we are both on the same wavelength on this subject. One thing we must remember. Alpacas and llamas are truly intelligent animals, that most often than not can be reasoned with.

PLEASANT VIEW FARM SURI ALPACAS ~ CAMILLE DESANDO, OWNER
Gilbert, PA ~ PHONE: 610-681-3759
SURI ALPACAS~ALPACA CLOTHING AND ACCESSORIES~FIBER~YARN
www.pleasantviewfarmalpacas.com desando@ptd.net

If opportunity doesn't knock, build a new door.
----- Original Message -----
From: Laura Coussens
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Question on Temperature Tolerance - Crias - coats

Hello,

Don't know if you're doing this, but...
When I use coats, I rub the outside of the coat really well on the
cria's back, then put it on the cria.
The dam needs to be watching and I talk to her to let her know
everything's alright.
You can even show the dam the coat after scenting it and before putting
it on the cria.
After putting it on, see if she will smell her cria.

As with all procedures, when things start to not go right, I start
humming...not a few bars, but a low and consoling, alpaca type hum.
80-90% of the time it really helps.

Laura Coussens
Kissin' Coussens Alpacas <www.alpacanation.com/kissincoussens.asp>

Jeanne Byington wrote:

>One word of caution, some dams will not tolerate a coat on their
>baby. Case in point....we put a coat on a new cria that was born in
>the beginning of October. It was very blustery and cold. So, we gave
>mom back her baby with the coat on and the dam then proceeded to try
>to stomp the coat, while it was still on her baby!! We ran out, took
>the coat off and then all was fine. I had never washed the coat in
>anything but plain water and let air dry in the barn, so it wouldn't
>smell funny, but the mom HATED the thing. So, now we know....no cria
>coats for her baby. Instead, we put a heating lamp in the one
>corner, so the baby could curl up under it but mom could stay away
>if she wanted (of course she wanted nothing to do with the
>heat...lol). We use a chicken lamp so we know how hot it gets and
>how high to set it up from the pacas.
>So, if you do put a coat on, keep a close eye on mom, and the rest
>of the herd, to make sure that the coat is acceptable.
>
>Jeanne
>Chaffee, NY
>
>
>--
>
>
>

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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Question on Temperature Tolerance - Crias - coats

This is just a suggestion, but when I have to put a coat on a baby, I first introduce the mom to the coat, tell her what I'm going to do, and then do it. I do not put a coat on one baby and then on another without washing it first. If you can, rub the outside of the coat on the baby before showing it to the mom.

PLEASANT VIEW FARM SURI ALPACAS ~ CAMILLE DESANDO, OWNER
Gilbert, PA ~ PHONE: 610-681-3759
SURI ALPACAS~ALPACA CLOTHING AND ACCESSORIES~FIBER~YARN
www.pleasantviewfarmalpacas.com desando@ptd.net

If opportunity doesn't knock, build a new door.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeanne Byington
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:52 AM
Subject: [Alpacasite] Re: Question on Temperature Tolerance - Crias - coats

One word of caution, some dams will not tolerate a coat on their
baby. Case in point....we put a coat on a new cria that was born in
the beginning of October. It was very blustery and cold. So, we gave
mom back her baby with the coat on and the dam then proceeded to try
to stomp the coat, while it was still on her baby!! We ran out, took
the coat off and then all was fine. I had never washed the coat in
anything but plain water and let air dry in the barn, so it wouldn't
smell funny, but the mom HATED the thing. So, now we know....no cria
coats for her baby. Instead, we put a heating lamp in the one
corner, so the baby could curl up under it but mom could stay away
if she wanted (of course she wanted nothing to do with the
heat...lol). We use a chicken lamp so we know how hot it gets and
how high to set it up from the pacas.
So, if you do put a coat on, keep a close eye on mom, and the rest
of the herd, to make sure that the coat is acceptable.

Jeanne
Chaffee, NY

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Jeannie Wells" <jeannie@b...>
wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> I have used a cria coat in situations like this. I would tend to
err on the
> side of caution. :)
>
> Jeannie Wells
> Wellspring Suri Alpacas, LLC
> <http://www.wellspringsurialpacas.com/>
> http://www.WellspringSuriAlpacas.com
> 210-698-8018
> Boerne, Texas
> Also on AlpacaNation:
> http://www.alpacanation.com/farmsandbreeders/03_viewfarm.asp?
name=11752
>
>
> What we see depends mainly on what we look for. --- John Lubbock

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Re: [Alpacasite]

Cathy,

New York State considers alpacas to be livestock.

Dave Friedman

At 03:54 PM 11/30/2005, you wrote:
>Here is a new one that I really need some help with. Recently I
>filed a loan app. with FSA and today received a denial to my loan
>because "alpacas are not considered farm animals" and they do not
>consider them a farm enterprise. I know that they are farm animals
>and need to show this person who knows notheing about alpacas that
>they are farm animals not just exotics. If any one has any thing to
>show this rep I would appreciate it including any state where the
>Farm Service does consider alpacas farm animals. I have 30 days to
>put together a package for reconsideration. I am trying to expand
>my already owned farm to one that can produce an alpaca income in
>just a couple of years instead of one that starts with a few animals
>and has to wait to see his/her FARM grow to an endeavor showing an
>income. Thanks in advance. Cathy Stephenson
>StephenOakes Farms
>Chester, SC
>You can also email me privately at midnightfire@chestertel.com
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
>the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
>message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@alpacaweb.com
><http://aaalpacas.com>http://aaalpacas.com
>
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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Dam with history of Meningal worm...question

Like Neil, I have a girl that had m-worm. Her back legs aren't stiff, but they aren't 100% straight any more. Her movement and flexibility are fine. She is currently pregnant, positive ultrasound showed the heartbeat. Her mannerisms, personality and eating habits are the same as before. I can't express how lucky I am that she turned out in such good shape. I thank God often for giving us a second chance. We anxiously await her cria which is due April 2006. If everything goes well with that delivery, I can breath another sigh of relief.
We watch this girl faithfully to the point that she expects me to stare at her. Couple months ago, her ears were twitching oddly and my "worry-wort" syndrome started to act up. Watched for a couple days, nothing seen or felt in the ears. Remembered some of the vet's advice and put some Ivermectin in her ears. No more twitching thereafter :)
"Proper care and a healthy environment", and Ivermectin every month-------we should make out fine.
Chris

Chris Mills
Outback Alpacas
507 Peck Rd.
Spencerport, NY 14559
585.392.3639
kusisqa@rochester.rr.com

----- Original Message -----
From: mpcpneilp
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:00 AM
Subject: [Alpacasite] Re: Dam with history of Meningal worm...question

Ears on Monday through Thursday..........at least until Verizon gets
its act together.

Don, I would expect that in the right setting an alpaca with a
history of meningeal worm infection will live a full and productive
life. As long as that animal is fully mobile and able to get to
shade, water, wind protection, etc it should do just fine.

That being said, here are some special risks that a meningeal worm
affected lama would have that could shorten its life. Because its
rear legs are stiff (this is generally the case) I would expect it to
be particularly prone to skin breakdown and cellulitis in this area.
We have a female who is much like yours, and I pay particular
attention to her rear legs. Sometimes I see loose gravel caught in
her fiber, and either brush it off or in the hotter months make sure
to spray her rear legs clean.

Another consideration is that a meningeal worm affected lama might
not be able to compete with others in its pen for scarce resources
(pellets, hay, water). In our case this is not an issue. Our female,
appropriately named "Hot Tamale", don't take no stuff from nobody!
With a more timid lama this might be an potential problem however.

What remains to be seen will be the effect rear leg stiffness has on
joints over time. It may be that these meningeal worm affected lamas
will have an increased risk of debilitating arthritis. This may be
more of a problem with llamas given their larger size and greater
weight, but only time will tell. Certainly the more severely affected
lamas will be at greater risk.

For now I'm cautiously hopefully that given proper care and provided
a healthy environment these relatively mildly affected alpacas and
llamas will have both a normal life span and productive lives.

My thoughts as of 11/05,

Neil
A Paca Fun Farm
Mt. Airy, Maryland
Sugarloaf Mountain, Maryland
www.apacafunfarm.com

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Jeannie Wells" <jeannie@b...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Don,
>
> Hopefully Neil Padgett has his "ears on". I bet he can help with
your
> question. I'd like to know, too!
>
> Jeannie Wells
> Wellspring Suri Alpacas, LLC
> <http://www.wellspringsurialpacas.com/>
> http://www.WellspringSuriAlpacas.com
> 210-698-8018
> Boerne, Texas
> Also on AlpacaNation:
> http://www.alpacanation.com/farmsandbreeders/03_viewfarm.asp?
name=11752
>
>
> What we see depends mainly on what we look for. --- John Lubbock
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of the_alpacarosa
> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:00 PM
> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Alpacasite] Dam with history of Meningal worm...question
>
>
> hi all,
>
> we have a suri girl here who had meningal worm as a youth and is
now 5
> years old. she has had 3 very nice cria, with no problems. She is
stiff
> walking in rear legs. We wonder what some of you have seen with
> reagards to lifespan and birthing longevity with these miningal
worm
> victims.
>
> Thanks
>
> Don
> The AlpacaRosa
>
>
>
>
>
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[Alpacasite]

Here is a new one that I really need some help with. Recently I filed a loan app. with FSA and today received a denial to my loan because "alpacas are not considered farm animals" and they do not consider them a farm enterprise. I know that they are farm animals and need to show this person who knows notheing about alpacas that they are farm animals not just exotics. If any one has any thing to show this rep I would appreciate it including any state where the Farm Service does consider alpacas farm animals. I have 30 days to put together a package for reconsideration. I am trying to expand my already owned farm to one that can produce an alpaca income in just a couple of years instead of one that starts with a few animals and has to wait to see his/her FARM grow to an endeavor showing an income. Thanks in advance. Cathy Stephenson
StephenOakes Farms
Chester, SC
You can also email me privately at midnightfire@chestertel.com

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Re: [Alpacasite] Not something checked often

Using a 50 gal drum.....what a great idea...thanks!
Jim Patrick
Patricks' Pastures Alpaca Ranch & Habitat
3030 N. Trinity Rd.
Denton, TX 76208
940-323-1011 (Ranch Office)
214-505-0754 (Jim Patrick's Mobile)
patrickspastures@verizon.net
www.patrickspastures.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeanne Byington
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:56 AM
Subject: [Alpacasite] Not something checked often

Hello all! Well, with the winter season upon us, I had hubby check
all the heated water buckets before the freezing temps came. One
thing I did not think about was the floating heater in the 55 gallon
drum that we use (makes it easier for my son to water the herd). He
went out there the first frozen morning and the water would not come
out. I told him to heat the spout, because that's what usually
freezes and causes the non-water issue. Well, no go. I looked inside
the tank to see what was going on. All the water was frozen except
in the center where the heater was. And, the heater was covered in
mineral build-up. So, hubby had to pull out the floating heater and
clean it. Then we had to dump all that water and refill. It isn't
used for the rest of the year because we have the automatic
waterers. This was the first use of the season. At least we found
the problem right away. Who knows what those mineral deposits would
do to our alpacas if they were in their water?!
So, if you have a floating heater for water, or something else that
is exposed directly to water, check it our to make sure there isn't
any rust or other problems with it. Live, learn and take notes!!

Jeanne
Chaffee, NY

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[Alpacasite] new vet

what i did for my basically horse vet is i bought him a copy of the vans
book and the veterinary book that steve hull recommended at his seminar
(steve?, anyone? what was that big book called?? ) and the fowler book. yes
that was expensive but not nearly as much money as my pacas cost or are
worth, i also gave him the name and phone number of a wonderful, helpful
camelid vet at the university of minnesota vet school(about 2.5-3 hours away
from me, too far in an emergency), just in case he needed to call
her.sometimes i wonder if he has read them yet, but at least i tried as much
as i could. we talk the whole time he's here, and i tell him what i learned
and he tells me what he learned, i feel we are learning together. just my
fyi, best of luck with yours, the other vet i tried, well, he just wasn't
interested in learning anything, since he "knew it all already", sounds like
your vet is at least interested. that's great. there is a veterinary
sponsored/presented seminar in minnesota next spring, i'm sure there are
seminars near you also including the one you mention in your post. i'll be
attending the minnesota one, with my vet.
good luck!
sandy kunath
www.glacialridgealpacas.com
http://www.alpacanation.com/farmsandbreeders/03_viewfarm.asp?name=12491

Message: 16
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:00:26 -0000
From: "gepp1" <alpacas@greystonemanor.biz>
Subject: We have a new vet and could use a little help

We've had significant problems getting an alpaca vet in our area.
All of our local vets have busy small animal practices and the one
vet we have that will work on alpacas has been harder and harder to
get out for ranch visits and is even hard to get scheduled for
office visits. Getting her out for an emergency is "cross your
fingers".

A new large animal vet has joined our local practice and has some
minimal experience with llamas. I'm asking the group to help me
encourage this new vet to learn more about alpacas. We're in the
process of trying to get her to attend a nearby 2 day vet symposium.

I've read many posts consisting of information from handouts and non-
copy-write protected material. If you have such material and are
willing to send me a copy, please reply privately by email (
gary@greystonemanor.biz ) and send it, (email if you have it
electronically). I'll screen for duplicates and collect it (and or
print the electronic formats) for delivery to our new vet.

If anyone has old copies or duplicates of copy-write protected
material, I'd like to hear about them. If I'm offered duplicates, I
will do an update post listing what is available and try to put the
donor and whoever wants it together.

Also if people have URLs (links) to non-copy-write protected
material that hey think would be useful for a new alpaca vet, I will
download it and put it on a disk for her.

Thanks,
May all of your cria be healthy, prize winners with 10+ pound
shearing weights,
Greystone Manor ( www.greystonemanor.biz)
Gary Epp
44656 Silver Spur Trail
Ahwahnee, CA 93601

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Re: [Alpacasite] Parasite control

Hi Charlotte,
Lordy, an alpaca list that I didn't know
about? Didn't subscribe to? And holistic no
less! Thanks, so much.

Jan Sherrill

>For those of you who are interested in herbal wormers, diversity in
>pasture and other holistic practices for raising your alpacas, consider
>joining the list "HolisticAlpaca". We have discussed many of these
>issues and many of our members have experiences with these exact
>things.
>To subscribe send a message to:
>HolisticAlpaca-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Charlotte Laning
>
>
>Charlotte Laning
>The Old Smuggler Bearded Collies, One Little Whippet and the Itty Bitty
>Tibbie - Dynamite® Dogs
>The Old Smuggler Alpacas - Dynamite® Alpacas
><http://DynamiteOnline.com/CharlotteLaning>http://DynamiteOnline.com/CharlotteLaning
>Menomonee Falls, WI
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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Celestial Alpacas
Central Coast of California
Templeton
mailto:pacamom@lightspeed.net

805/238-2628

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[Alpacasite] Re: Parasite control

Hi Lisa,
Yes, the article is most informative. I find it interesting
that you picked up on that particular sentence about west coast
animals. Being in the west coast I wondered exactly what they meant
about the " dry and cool conditions."

In CA, NE, AZ, NM the dry certainly applies but the cool is
only in the depths of winter, like Dec and Jan. In WA, OR, ID the
dry doesn''t apply at all (to one used to the semi-arid region of CA)
and the cool would be correct for much of the time.

So, what I am saying is that the temperature/rainfall
reference is not very correct. What is correct, probably, is that
the parasites in any region are going to be different from any other
region. In general, I think the dry portions of the west would, in
fact, engender animals with little resistance for the eastern
parasites. We need to worm so infrequently by comparison with what
we hear about in M worm country.

In general I think when you "import' animals from a different
region they will have to be carefully monitored for their adaptation
to your surroundings.

But I thought the links were great!!!

Jan Sherrill
Celestial Alpacas
Central Coast of California
Templeton
805/238-2628

>David,
>
>Outstanding link. Much was exactly what Dr Pugh was saying during
>his recent parasite workshop.
>
>Concerning the comment: "Sheep brought from western US have little
>or no resistance to parasites, because of low parasite pressure due
>to dry and cool conditions. If importing sheep from the west, they
>will have to go through a period of resistance development, which
>would be very stressful for them."
>
>Interesting in that several farms I know have "imported" llamas from
>the west-coast and what was acceptable levels of parasites in their
>own herd - proved to be border-line deadly to the new additions -
>which has no resistance at all to local parasites.
>
>Again, many thanks for the link - outstanding article.
>
>Warmest Regards,
>Lisa
>
>Alpaca Atlantic of TN: Full-time Ranchers, Full-time Commitment,
>Full-time Support!
>Manchester, Tennessee
>Phone: (931) 728-6945
>
>Web Site: <http://www.Alpaca-Atlantic.com>http://www.Alpaca-Atlantic.com
>E-mail: AlpacaAtlantic@aol.com
>
>
>--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, D Colby <DColby@d...> wrote:
>>
>> Here is an interesting article from the Organic Broadcaster, Vol13
>#6.
>>
>>
>><http://www.mosesorganic.org/ob/intparisites.htm>http://www.mosesorganic.org/ob/intparisites.htm
>>
>> David Colby
>> Weminuche Huacaya Alpacas
>> Platteville CO 80651
>> 970.405.4597
>> dcolby@d... <mailto:dcolby@d...>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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805/238-2628

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Re: [Alpacasite] We have a new vet and could use a little help

Here is a list of publications.

http://camelid.webis.net/Publications/technical.html

gepp1 wrote:

> We've had significant problems getting an alpaca vet in our area.
> All of our local vets have busy small animal practices and the one
> vet we have that will work on alpacas has been harder and harder to
> get out for ranch visits and is even hard to get scheduled for
> office visits. Getting her out for an emergency is "cross your
> fingers".
>
> A new large animal vet has joined our local practice and has some
> minimal experience with llamas. I'm asking the group to help me
> encourage this new vet to learn more about alpacas. We're in the
> process of trying to get her to attend a nearby 2 day vet symposium.
>
> I've read many posts consisting of information from handouts and non-
> copy-write protected material. If you have such material and are
> willing to send me a copy, please reply privately by email (
> gary@greystonemanor.biz ) and send it, (email if you have it
> electronically). I'll screen for duplicates and collect it (and or
> print the electronic formats) for delivery to our new vet.
>
> If anyone has old copies or duplicates of copy-write protected
> material, I'd like to hear about them. If I'm offered duplicates, I
> will do an update post listing what is available and try to put the
> donor and whoever wants it together.
>
> Also if people have URLs (links) to non-copy-write protected
> material that hey think would be useful for a new alpaca vet, I will
> download it and put it on a disk for her.
>
> Thanks,
> May all of your cria be healthy, prize winners with 10+ pound
> shearing weights,
> Greystone Manor ( www.greystonemanor.biz)
> Gary Epp
> 44656 Silver Spur Trail
> Ahwahnee, CA 93601
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the
> person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message
> in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
> alpacas@alpacaweb.com
> http://aaalpacas.com
>
>
>
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