Re: [Alpacasite] Cracked corn and whole oats.

On Sat Nov 26, 2005, Christine Fox wrote:

> Is cracked corn and whole oats OK to give to alpacas
> in small amounts?

In "Feeding Camelids", Dr. LaRue W. Johnson wrote:

"Forage (pasture and hay or browse) should be a major contributor of
energy to the diet. For certain circumstances, cereal grains (corn,
oats, barley, etc) may be used as supplemental high energy sources."

My question would be WHY you want to feed them grains? Is it as a
supplement, or rather, as many people do, to make YOU feel good?
(You don't need to answer, just to consider the question.)

To diverge from this for a moment, with regard to the thread
"Getting More People into the Alpaca Industry", I'd like to repeat
something that I've said several times in the past. Anyone who has
ever been to Peru, and watched alpacas spend all day walking and
browsing knows how important this is to their contentment. I have
sat and watched them in large paddocks, and they are constantly in
motion, moving from one end to the other. I believe that keeping
them in feedlot conditions for their entire life borders on animal
cruelty, and people considering purchasing them should be aware of
ALL their needs. If this hurts some people's feelings, then that's
too bad.

Back to corn and other grains ...

As a supplement, corn has value during harsh winter conditions, but
there is a danger. Here is what a couple of other expert vets had
to say.

Ken Madl
Aviana Farms

-----------------------------

In "Winter Care for Alpacas and Llamas", by Dr. Stephen R. Purdy,
published in the Winter 2002 issue of "New England Journal of Large
Animal Health", he wrote:

"Cracked corn is easily digested, readily available at any feed
store, and the animals like to eat it. It makes an excellent quality
calorie supplement in the winter."

-----------------------------

"Practical Llama and Alpaca Nutrition", by Stephen R. Purdy, DVM

http://www.purdyvet.com/pracnut.html

simple grains-
• excellent sources of supplementation
• readily available at any feed store
• excellent palatability
cracked corn- 9 -10% protein and good digestibility = calories
crimped oats- same
barley- same
soy bean meal- 46-48% protein and good digestibility
50:50 by volume mixture of cracked corn and soy bean meal has 23%
protein and makes the ideal protein and calorie supplement for
lactation, growth, and weight gain

-----------------------------

"Hypothermia--Are you ready for the winter?", by David E Anderson,
DVM

http://www.alpacabreeders.org/htmls/vetscorner.html

"During extremes of cold, camelids have a vital need for energy. ...
Corn is the "hottest" grain in that it provides the most readily
fermentable carbohydrates of the cereal grains, but this also makes
corn the most risky for causing acidosis. I prefer to add oats to a
winter ration because this feed provides more fiber than corn and is
less prone to acidosis."

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[Alpacasite] Re: Cracked corn and whole oats.

In all fairness to the people that sold me my alpacas. She said
that she had sent the fecals in to the lab in plenty of time to take
care of any parasite problems herself. But the day before her
fecals arrived at the lab they recieved a very large fecal order
from another farm, which in turned delayed results long enough to
cause me the problem.
I know I don't know very much about the hands on practical side of
alpacas, because I have no experience, only what I had read. But by
asking questions on this site I did not mean to come off sounding
like a--- "new buyers who apparently know very little about their
care!!!!"
I am sorry if I have stirred things up. Certainly didn't mean to
bad talk anyone.
Thanks for all your words of encouragement both privately and on
this site.
Christine Fox

Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Mills" <kusisqa@r...> wrote:
>
> Barrie,
> I feel the same way. It would have been nicer for the new owner
to receive the animals after their medication. Luckily, it seems
that Christine is handling it well and has a vet coming out next
week. Plus, she has 'us' to turn to. Just another case supporting
education and customer support. I wouldn't have let the pacas leave
my farm until they were all clear, unless the new owner insisted and
I was nearby to help.
> Christine,
> Personally, I wouldn't feed the cracked corn. It's too rough on
the gut. A small amount shouldn't be harmful. Oats? I don't know
the pros and cons about oats. I do know that one of my girls gets
into my oats' bag and she's fine. She has taught my other girls how
to "break into" the oats' bin :)
> Vet questions: talk to the vet about parasites common in your
area, discuss parasite control & treatment, ask how emergencies will
be handled and if another vet should be on-call, is that vet
familiar with alpacas. Much will depend on your vet's
knowledge/experience with alpacas. My vet likes it when I give him
Alpacas Magazine and any disease related articles that I find.
> If I can help in any other way, please feel free to write.
> Enjoy the weekend,
> Chris
>
> Chris Mills
> Outback Alpacas
> 507 Peck Rd.
> Spencerport, NY 14559
> 585.392.3639
> kusisqa@r...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Barrie Hanslip
> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 9:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Cracked corn and whole oats.
>
>
> I can't believe that nobody else feels the way I
do.............that the
> so-called "breeder" who sold these animals should have taken the
> responsibility to ensure that the sold alpacas were free from
parasites and
> otherwise healthy before handing them over to new buyers who
apparently know
> very little about their care!!!!
>
> Is there someone close to them who can HELP??
>
> Barrie Hanslip
> Sooke, BC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tfox799947" <tfox799947@y...>
> To: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 3:06 PM
> Subject: [Alpacasite] Cracked corn and whole oats.
>
>
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > Is cracked corn and whole oats OK to give to alpacas in small
amounts?
> > Also, I just got my alpacas a couple of days ago. The breeder
did
> > tell me that my 2 pregnant females have one type of parasite
and that
> > my yearling has emeria. Anyway, what I'm getting at is...I
have the
> > vet coming out on Monday. Any advise on questions I should be
asking
> > him?
> > Thanks in advance.
> > Christine Fox
> > Fox's Funny Farm
> > Glidden WI
>
>
>
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[Alpacasite] Re: Getting More People into the Alpaca Industry

I hadn't ever thought of the "alpaca lifestyle" as a marketing phrase,
but right you are! God bless AOBA and I Love Alpacas, but I know I am
a long, long way from walking my alpacas around on my manicured
acreage :). I'm lucky if I can find a way throught the 6 inches of mud
my horses have stirred up in front of the gate to my boys pasture.
Hopefully some of the discussions on this list and others give a bit
more realistic view of what alpaca farming is about for the first few
years, for most people.

Heidi Christensen
Graham WA

> All that said, I have one more comment regarding getting new
> people into the industry. I think in two cases in the last few
> months we have had new people enter this list and refer to being
> interested in the "alpaca lifestyle". That's a marketing phrase ( or
> was).
>
>

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Re: [Alpacasite] Cracked corn and whole oats.

Hi All,

I realize that the following email from Dr David Anderson at OSU was
recently posted -- but it does cover some information on Corn and Oats. He states,
"Corn is the "hottest"
grain in that it provides the most readily fermentable carbohydrates of the
cereal grains, but this also makes corn the most risky for causing acidosis.
I prefers to add oats to a winter ration because this feed provides more
fiber than corn and is less prone to acidosis."

There is also a great deal of other valuable information on care during the
winter months.

Here it is:


Hypothermia: Are you ready for the winter?

As we enter the autumn months in North America, my thoughts drift to
concerns for care and management of livestock during the often-harsh environmental
conditions of winter. In general, llamas and alpacas are well suited to cooler
temperatures. After all, winter in the Andes can be trying on the soul if
one is not prepared for it. However, camelids are susceptible to extremes of
environment, hot (hyperthermia) or cold (hypothermia). The highest risk animals
on the farm are very young, very old, very thin, or diseased camelids.

Perhaps the biggest concern we have for hypothermia are newborn crias. Crias
are born without the stores of fat needed from which to draw energy to
maintain body temperature. Newborns are dependent on the dam's colostrum and milk
to provide glucose, fat, and protein. Early and frequent access to these
nutrients are critical for the cria to survive the first few days of life.
Without the milk fat, crias have a limited ability to maintain body temperature and
blood glucose, both of which are necessary to survival. When crias are
exposed to extremes of temperature, they must burn energy at a much higher rate to
maintain body temperature and the remainder of the body systems may become
starved. At some point, the cria is unable to ingest adequate milk to survive
and hypothermia begins. These crias are often found down in the pasture in a
cushed position with the head and neck extended in front of them on the
ground. This posture is designed to close off all areas where heat is lost: around
the tail (perineum), between the legs (axilla and groin), the underside of
the belly (ventral abdomen), and the base of the neck (sternum and thoracic
inlet). At this point and if body heat and energy are not restored quickly, the
cria will die from hypothermia and hypoglycemia (low blood glucose) within a
few hours.

The veterinary community has spent considerable time and energy evaluating
risk factors and developing prevention strategies for heat stress. This is time
well spent but we must consider both sides of the coin. Several years ago, a
new farm lost several alpacas to heat stress. The farm did not have adequate
shade and had not sheared the alpacas. When the peak daytime temperatures
rose above 90 F and humidity climbed to 80 %, the alpacas could no longer
tolerate the extremes and several died before intervention could be instituted.
The most significant factor seemed to be that the night time temperature did
not fall below around 80 F. Thus, the alpacas could not exhaust the heat build
up from the day before. This is bad when you are wearing an alpaca sweater!
The next year, the farm manager was determined not to succumb to the same
problem and the alpacas were shorn in April of the next year. Unfortunately, a
bitter cold spell including freezing temperatures and snowfall hit that area
late in April. Eight alpacas were hospitalized for hypothermia and,
fortunately, all were saved. I enjoyed watching them walk around with Ohio State
sweatshirts on!

These lessons are simple: management and husbandry practices greatly
influence an animal's ability to thrive. Consider your farm in light of the
following tips for prevention of hypothermia:

1. Shelter: Camelids must be provided with a shelter from which they
can seek protection form environmental extremes. These facilities should
have sufficient width, length, and height to allow protection from wind. If
three-sided shelters are used, a portion of the open side may be enclosed to
provide a more effective windbreak. The orientation of the shelter should be such
that the open side is not presented to prevailing winds (e.g. in Ohio,
shelters face southeast to brace against northwesterly winds). Our research has
shown that llamas and alpacas will "loaf" (referring to relaxed cushing rather
than seeking shelter for protection) in shelters that provide approximately 36
square feet per animal. During environmental extremes (e.g.
cold below 20 F, high wind, hard rain, sleet/ice, heavy snow) llamas and
alpacas will utilize shelters at a rate of 18 to 24 square feet per animal.
Inadequate shelter space will cause animals to be "left out" without
protection from the environment.
a. Remember - the single most important toll to prevent hypothermia is
to stay DRY. The second most import is to protect against wind. WET + WIND =
HYPOTHERMIA. Thin and young and old animals are the most susceptible to
these effects.

2. Bedding: Bedding should be sufficient to help camelids close off
their natural thermal windows. Remember, in summer we are trying to increase
the thermal window. In winter, our goal is to decrease this thermal window.
I prefer straw for this purpose. Straw is inexpensive, clean enough to use
for birthing areas, has adequate insulating features, and can be easily
cleaned from the floor and fiber coat.

3. Water: Water is a critical nutrient in all seasons. Ingestion of
water fluctuates with the temperature of the water. When water is near
freezing or frozen, water intake is decreased. Insufficient water intake causes
decreased feed intake and the ability to regulate body temperature becomes
impaired. In lactating females, milk production suffers and crias will fail to
gain weight or will loose weight. If passive waterers are used (e.g. buckets,
troughs), the water should be refreshed daily or several times a day as needed.
I prefer heated automatic waters to optimize access and decrease labor.

4. Feed: During extremes of cold, camelids have a vital need for
energy. I am often asked to consult on farms during winter months because
females are loosing weight, crias are not gaining weight, or hypothermia cases
have been seen. Many of these problems can be tied to inadequate winter
nutrition. Grain feeding may be increased to provide rapidly metabolizable energy
sources, but this must be done cautiously. Over feeding of any grain source
can cause acidosis in the fermentation chamber (C1) of the stomachs and this
will exacerbate the problem. Corn is the "hottest"
grain in that it provides the most readily fermentable carbohydrates of the
cereal grains, but this also makes corn the most risky for causing acidosis.
I prefer to add oats to a winter ration because this feed provides more
fiber than corn and is less prone to acidosis. Example: if a herd is feeding a
commercial camelid pellet ration at 0.5 lbs per head per day, oats may be added
at 0.5 lbs per head per day to increase energy intake. The addition of the
oats should occur slowly over two weeks to allow the flora of C1 to adapt to
the change in diet. Hay should be analyzed before winter months. I prefer to
test each new shipment of hay and make acceptance of the hay contingent upon
this analysis. Total digestible nutrient content of the hay should exceed 55%
and is most desirable to exceed 60% for winter forage. I recommend that every
animal in every herd have a BCS (body condition score) done every month.
Loss of body condition score should be addressed quickly unless it can be
explained (e.g. females are expected to loose 1 to 1.5 BCS during the first 2
months of lactation).

5. Feeding: Providing adequate quality of feed is only one-half of the
story. Providing adequate access to feed is the other. In regions where
heavy snowfall occurs and in areas where ice storms are common, camelids must be
able to gain access to feed. In these situations, I prefer to offer feed
inside of the shelter so that animals are not required to walk to a different
location to get feed. Camelids will opt for protection against environmental
extremes rather that eat or may eat for fewer hours each day.
For farms that have barns this is rarely an issue. Farms using three-sided
shelters may have a more difficult time providing sheltered feed.

6. Ventilation: During summer months, high ventilation is desired.
During winter months, ventilation remains important. When shelters are
"battened down" for the winter, we must be careful not to over-insulate the
interior. Camelids tend to urinate and defecate inside of shelters. Who can blame
them - nobody likes a draft in the bathroom! If ventilation is too restricted
in winter housing, ammonia and other gases from the dung pile buildup and can
contribute to winter pneumonia and poor thriving crias. As always, hygiene
is the key to success.

7. Shearing: Talking about shearing for winter seems strange at first,
but what I am referring to here is 'when did you shear and how is your fiber
growing'. Last year, I worked with a herd that had not been able to shear
until late in July. Although nutrition was adequate, there was not much room to
spare. The fiber coats had not grown well enough before winter to provide
adequate protection from the wind. Examination of the herd revealed a suboptimal
herd BCS (average 4 out of 10) and approximately 25% of the herd had
subnormal rectal temperatures (average of hypothermic alpacas 98 F).
Although this temperature was not acutely critical, the chronic
environmental stress decreased immunity, decreased lactation, and caused weight loss.
Nutrition and sheltering had to be addressed quickly and within a few weeks the
problem had stabilized. Unfortunately, the affected alpacas required over 1
year to fully recover.

8. Maternity: Two important concerns for newborns are cleanliness and
warmth. Females have been known to give birth in open fields in the snow
when they do not have access to a clean shelter in which to birth. These crias
are at high risk for hypothermia if shelter is not provided. In our research,
females that had access to a 14 x 16 foot shelter rarely gave birth inside of
that shelter in either winter or summer. We assume that the reason for this
was the presence of a dung pile in the shelter and a perception by the female
that the environmental stress was too great. When females had access to a 25
x 60 foot shelter, the females always gave birth inside of the shelter
despite the presence of two dunging areas within the shelter. We assume that the
surface area of the shelter was large enough to allow criation and overcome the
females concern for the presence of dung piles.

9. Stocking densities: Stocking density refers to the number of animals
per unit area. I recommend that farm stocking density be no more than 5
llamas or 7 alpacas per acre of land for grazing to maximize forage utilization
and minimize parasite burdens on pastures. In winter, grazing is not an issue
for most farms because the animals will voluntarily congregate around hay
feeders and shelters. Hygiene becomes a vital concern. Our research has shown
that a minimum of 12 inches is required for bunker feeders to allow
simultaneous feedings. However, this results in failure to feed by many of the
submissive animals. Bunker space of 24 inches per head resulted in fewer submissive
animals being excluded. Hay feeder space is equally important. Camelids may
spend 8 hours or more feeding on hay each day. If limited feeder space is
available, submissive animals will not be able to ingest enough hay to maintain
weight and will be more prone to hypothermia.

10. Parasites: Often, winter is thought to provide a "reprieve" from
parasites that can not survive the harsh cold and failure of eggs to hatch
into infective larvae. This is true for most intestinal parasites. However,
winter is fertile ground for transmission of some parasites (e.g. coccidia,
whipworms, lice, mange, skin fungus) because of close animal-to-animal contact
and diminished hygiene. Heavy parasite burdens cause stress to the animal and
may decrease their ability to tolerate environmental extremes.

Treatment of hypothermia involves warmth, nutrition, and correction of
underlying problems (e.g. milk supplements for crias whose dam is not lactating).
Critical hypothermia occurs when core body temperature drops below 90 F.
Consider the following treatments:

1. Protection. Get the animal into a well-insulated, preferably heated
area.

2. Warmth. Wrap the animal in heated blankets. Using a heat lamp in a
cold stall can be detrimental because the direct heat causes dilation of the
surface blood vessels, which can exacerbate heat loss. By incubating the
animal in a warm blanket, heat loss in prevented.

3. Time. Avoid too rapid heating. Warming a critically cold animal up
too quickly can cause as much harm as the hypothermia because of altered
blood flow and liberation of potassium and organic acids that built up during
the period of poor blood flow caused by hypothermia. These can cause the heart
to stop!

4. Energy. Intravenous administration of electrolytes and glucose are
most useful. If an IV line is not available, glucose or other carbohydrate
syrups (e.g. honey, fructose, and maple syrup) may be fed orally or may be
inserted into the rectum. Yes, that's right! Camelids can absorb glucose from
the rectum if there is adequate blood flow. All liquid supplements should be
warmed to approximately 95 to 100 F.

5. Oxygen. Always a useful supplement to debilitated animals, but
particularly useful to critically hypothermic animals.

6. Steroids. This is controversial because of camelids sensitivity to
glucocorticoids. Our research suggests that dexamethasone should not be used
in camelids. Prednisone type steroids may be safely used for short periods
at modest dosages (e.g. not exceeding 1 mg/kg twice daily for 2 days).

7. Ulcers. I recommend prophylactic use of antiulcer medications for
high-risk camelids. I prefer omeprazole (2 to 4 mg/kg, orally, once or twice
daily).

8. Nutrition. Encourage the camelid to eat themselves back to health.

9. Stress. Companion animals are always welcome! Treat any underlying
disease, parasites, etc.

10. Recovery. The effects of damage from hypothermia may not be fully
realized for a day or two. These animals must be kept under constant vigil
for 3 to 5 days to be sure other complications will not be suffered (e.g.
diarrhea, depression, etc.).

Although heat stress is of great concern to camelids residing in North
America, cold stress is equally important. Forethought and preparation will help
you keep your llamas and alpacas from being caught with their fur coat down!

This continuing education article is provided by the International Camelid
Institute. Consider making a donation today by contacting Karen Longbrake at
phone 614-688-8160, fax 614-292-7185, e-mail _longbrake.1@osu.edu_
(mailto:longbrake.1@osu.edu) , or _www.internationalcamelidinstitute.org_
(http://www.internationalcamelidinstitute.org) .



David E Anderson, DVM, MS, DACVS
Head and Associate Professor of Farm Animal Surgery Director, International
Camelid Initiative Ohio State University College of Veterinary Medicine
601 Vernon L Tharp Street
Columbus, Ohio 43210
Phone 614-292-6661
Fax: 614-292-3530
E-mail: _Anderson.670@osu.edu_ (mailto:Anderson.670@osu.edu)

Barrie Lynn Wood
Benchmark Alpacas at the Tin Roof Ranch
Ortonville - soon to be Goodrich, MI

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Alpacasite] Re: Getting More People into the Alpaca Industry --- How to say NO

Hi Jeannie,

I'm suspecting similar approaches will work with different animals
in placement. If not, I'm sure someone will pipe up and tell me I'm
all wet! Once I've done "introducing" my animals (so far, only
cats - alpacas as soon as I can) I start listening and asking
questions. I like to do a fair amount of phone screening first, but
that may not be reasonable in your situation. Anyway, after I've
listened to them for a while, and once they've told me what they are
looking for, and I've decided I'm not selling to them - I tell them
I simply don't have what they are looking for at this time but will
be in touch if I have something for them. Sometimes I've had to say
they are already reserved, and stand firm that I will not let them
outbid the intended owner. Rarely is it an issue at that point.

Others have said quote an outrageous price - but some will pay it,
and then what do you do? And some think they'll be wonderful
owners, so for me telling people the real facts would not change
their minds, so I keep repeating over and over.... I'm sorry, but I
don't have a .... and they get bored and give up.

Then there was the couple that my dog decided were bad news before I
had a chance, and felt the need to protect me from them. I figured
she knew better than I and declined to have any kittens available
for them.

Hope that helps,
Jenny Brundage DVM
Kailua, HI

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Jeannie Wells" <jeannie@b...>
wrote:
>
> Great discussion here,all---
>
> For those who have decided NOT to sell to parties they deem
inappropriate,
> what do they say and how do they approach this?? I have not sold
any
> animals yet (YIKES), and would appreciate some ideas.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeannie Wells
> Wellspring Suri Alpacas, LLC
> <http://www.wellspringsurialpacas.com/>
> http://www.WellspringSuriAlpacas.com
> 210-698-8018
> Boerne, Texas
> Also on AlpacaNation:
> http://www.alpacanation.com/farmsandbreeders/03_viewfarm.asp?
name=11752
>
>
> What we see depends mainly on what we look for. --- John Lubbock
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Judith Korff/Ladysong Farm
> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 6:38 PM
> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Getting More People into the Alpaca
Industry
>
>
> Thanks, Jim -- I also enjoyed our conversation. For those of you
who
> weren't privy to that discussion (as in everybody else!), Jim was
concerned
> that my initiation of a dialogue on unsuitable sales was being
specifically
> critical of him and his program. That was not my intent, and I
apologize if
> it was taken that way. Since there are hundreds of readers on
alpacasite, I
> was concerned that Jim's posts might offer the impression to
breeders who
> are still formulating their marketing program that exceptionally
affordable
> start-up packages might help drive sales. While this may be so,
those sales
> ultimately might not be in the long-range interests of the
buyers. When we
> breeders focus our marketing in the industry start-up range, there
exists
> the prospect of innocently "seducing" unsuitable buyers into the
industry
> through unusually affordable packages, leading them to make
decisions they
> would not otherwise make -- particularly impulse shopping.
Obviously,
> careful screening of
> start-up buyers would help to avoid that hazard, and that is
something that
> Jim is also concerned about. This is not to say that a marketing
program
> directed at this end of the industry is inappropriate, but that it
has some
> special hazards that anyone undertaking it should consider.
>
> The educational/support component of marketing was another thing
that I
> (and others here) have mentioned being very concerned about with
respect to
> sales to newbies. However, in further discussion Jim's marketing
program
> with him, I learned that Jim's posts on alpacasite have really
only covered
> the "bare bones" of his program, and had not revealed (or if they
did, I
> missed it) the educational and support component, which he
explained to me
> in our talk. Again, I apologize if my comments were taken as
critical of
> Jim's marketing program. However, I believe it was important that
some of
> these potential hazards be noted and acknowledged.
>
>
> Judith Korff
> LadySong Farm
> 2473 Bunker Hill Rd.
> P.O. Box 33
> Steamburg, NY 14783
> (716) 354-6355
> A Holistic Management Farm
> Conducting a Symphony of Quality, Value and Customer Care
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
the person
> posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in
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> reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@a...
> http://aaalpacas.com
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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Getting More People into the Alpaca Industry --- How to say NO

Just tell them the bold truth that its a hell'va lot of work, cost and commitment...and they aren't going to get rich quick!

Ask them if they can afford a $3k - $5k vet bill next month and the month after that.

Ask them if they can spare 50 hours a week in addition to their full time job a week.

Then conclude with...are you will to commit $100k in the next 18 months...cash!

If they don't run...talk to them.

Jim Patrick
Patricks' Pastures Alpaca Ranch & Habitat
3030 N. Trinity Rd.
Denton, TX 76208
940-323-1011 (Ranch Office)
214-505-0754 (Jim Patrick's Mobile)
patrickspastures@verizon.net
www.patrickspastures.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeannie Wells
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:36 PM
Subject: RE: [Alpacasite] Re: Getting More People into the Alpaca Industry --- How to say NO

Great discussion here,all---

For those who have decided NOT to sell to parties they deem inappropriate,
what do they say and how do they approach this?? I have not sold any
animals yet (YIKES), and would appreciate some ideas.

Thanks,

Jeannie Wells
Wellspring Suri Alpacas, LLC
<http://www.wellspringsurialpacas.com/>
http://www.WellspringSuriAlpacas.com
210-698-8018
Boerne, Texas
Also on AlpacaNation:
http://www.alpacanation.com/farmsandbreeders/03_viewfarm.asp?name=11752

What we see depends mainly on what we look for. --- John Lubbock

-----Original Message-----
From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Judith Korff/Ladysong Farm
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 6:38 PM
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Getting More People into the Alpaca Industry

Thanks, Jim -- I also enjoyed our conversation. For those of you who
weren't privy to that discussion (as in everybody else!), Jim was concerned
that my initiation of a dialogue on unsuitable sales was being specifically
critical of him and his program. That was not my intent, and I apologize if
it was taken that way. Since there are hundreds of readers on alpacasite, I
was concerned that Jim's posts might offer the impression to breeders who
are still formulating their marketing program that exceptionally affordable
start-up packages might help drive sales. While this may be so, those sales
ultimately might not be in the long-range interests of the buyers. When we
breeders focus our marketing in the industry start-up range, there exists
the prospect of innocently "seducing" unsuitable buyers into the industry
through unusually affordable packages, leading them to make decisions they
would not otherwise make -- particularly impulse shopping. Obviously,
careful screening of
start-up buyers would help to avoid that hazard, and that is something that
Jim is also concerned about. This is not to say that a marketing program
directed at this end of the industry is inappropriate, but that it has some
special hazards that anyone undertaking it should consider.

The educational/support component of marketing was another thing that I
(and others here) have mentioned being very concerned about with respect to
sales to newbies. However, in further discussion Jim's marketing program
with him, I learned that Jim's posts on alpacasite have really only covered
the "bare bones" of his program, and had not revealed (or if they did, I
missed it) the educational and support component, which he explained to me
in our talk. Again, I apologize if my comments were taken as critical of
Jim's marketing program. However, I believe it was important that some of
these potential hazards be noted and acknowledged.

Judith Korff
LadySong Farm
2473 Bunker Hill Rd.
P.O. Box 33
Steamburg, NY 14783
(716) 354-6355
A Holistic Management Farm
Conducting a Symphony of Quality, Value and Customer Care

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the person
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[Alpacasite] Re: Question Regarding Eataholic Cria

Hi Tim:

We milk the mom one time after the cria has stabilized temp, gotten
up, etc. Just to check/clear teats and also stickiness (but I can't
measure colostrum quality by "sticky") but we of course give this to
them slowly in a small syringe - good way to check suckle reflex as
well, many times they suck the plunger to the end of the syringe. We
rub a small amount on the teats themselves, then step aside.
Usually they start to suckle right after this.

Paul

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, Tim Wilson <tpwilson2@a...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> cpqcolor wrote:
>
> >Hi Chris:
> >
> >He was 14.9 at birth, born at noon on Wednesday - when I weighed
him
> >a little while ago he was already 16.3. Running around, full of
> >piss and vinegar (can I say that on here?). Mom has plenty of
milk,
> >we stripped several CCs early and since, and I've watched him
nurse
> >and he seems to have it down pat - it's hard to tell how much he
> >actually gets each feeding - he's grey so his "milk mouth" is
harder
> >to see :)
> >
> >Paul
> >
> >
> Paul,
>
> Curious by one of your comments "Mom has plenty of milk, we
stripped
> several CCs early".
>
> Why would you strip mom of any milk (other than a brief check to
see
> that the teats are not clogged/blocked and were working)?
>
> Tim Wilson
> Sterling Forrest Alpacas
> Chagrin Falls, OH
>

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Re: [Alpacasite] Cracked corn and whole oats.

Barrie,
I feel the same way. It would have been nicer for the new owner to receive the animals after their medication. Luckily, it seems that Christine is handling it well and has a vet coming out next week. Plus, she has 'us' to turn to. Just another case supporting education and customer support. I wouldn't have let the pacas leave my farm until they were all clear, unless the new owner insisted and I was nearby to help.
Christine,
Personally, I wouldn't feed the cracked corn. It's too rough on the gut. A small amount shouldn't be harmful. Oats? I don't know the pros and cons about oats. I do know that one of my girls gets into my oats' bag and she's fine. She has taught my other girls how to "break into" the oats' bin :)
Vet questions: talk to the vet about parasites common in your area, discuss parasite control & treatment, ask how emergencies will be handled and if another vet should be on-call, is that vet familiar with alpacas. Much will depend on your vet's knowledge/experience with alpacas. My vet likes it when I give him Alpacas Magazine and any disease related articles that I find.
If I can help in any other way, please feel free to write.
Enjoy the weekend,
Chris

Chris Mills
Outback Alpacas
507 Peck Rd.
Spencerport, NY 14559
585.392.3639
kusisqa@rochester.rr.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Barrie Hanslip
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Cracked corn and whole oats.

I can't believe that nobody else feels the way I do.............that the
so-called "breeder" who sold these animals should have taken the
responsibility to ensure that the sold alpacas were free from parasites and
otherwise healthy before handing them over to new buyers who apparently know
very little about their care!!!!

Is there someone close to them who can HELP??

Barrie Hanslip
Sooke, BC

----- Original Message -----
From: "tfox799947" <tfox799947@yahoo.com>
To: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 3:06 PM
Subject: [Alpacasite] Cracked corn and whole oats.

> Hello everyone,
>
> Is cracked corn and whole oats OK to give to alpacas in small amounts?
> Also, I just got my alpacas a couple of days ago. The breeder did
> tell me that my 2 pregnant females have one type of parasite and that
> my yearling has emeria. Anyway, what I'm getting at is...I have the
> vet coming out on Monday. Any advise on questions I should be asking
> him?
> Thanks in advance.
> Christine Fox
> Fox's Funny Farm
> Glidden WI

Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.

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[Alpacasite] Re: A very blessed Thanksgiving to you

Hi Rachelle.
That is such a nice message and sent warmth all over the country,
nay, the world! The same warmth and love is sent back to you and
your family.
Chris Rogers
Whisper Meadows Alpacas
De Pere, WI

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Wyatt Black" <wyattblack@e...>
wrote:
>
> I am sorry I am late in sending this.
>
> This year our family has so much to be grateful for! A nice warm
house to live in. Family members near whom we cherish. Alpacas in
our lives for grace, beauty and joy. Good friends and neighbors.
Our Father in heaven who we know loves us, and we love Him.
Blessings that come our way every day that we aren't even aware of...
> I would be greatly remiss if I didn't thank all of you out there as
well, for the love, compassion and support that you give me and my
family every day.
> God bless you for your kindness, and prayers, and emails and love.
> You are cherished, and your value is of infinite worth to my family
and I.
> Hoping you had a very blessed Thanksgiving, and thank you for being
you.
> Love,
> The Black Family
> Rachelle, Wyatt, Cameron & Codi
> And all of our furry friends :)
>
>
>
> Wyatt & Rachelle Black
> Black Magic Alpaca Ranch
> Honesty, Integrity, Quality
> 6500 Digier Road
> P.O. Box 457
> Lebec, CA
> 93243
> http://www.blackmagicalpacaranch.com
> wyattblack@e...
> 661-248-6568
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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RE: [Alpacasite] Re: Getting More People into the Alpaca Industry --- How to say NO

Great discussion here,all---

For those who have decided NOT to sell to parties they deem inappropriate,
what do they say and how do they approach this?? I have not sold any
animals yet (YIKES), and would appreciate some ideas.

Thanks,

Jeannie Wells
Wellspring Suri Alpacas, LLC
<http://www.wellspringsurialpacas.com/>
http://www.WellspringSuriAlpacas.com
210-698-8018
Boerne, Texas
Also on AlpacaNation:
http://www.alpacanation.com/farmsandbreeders/03_viewfarm.asp?name=11752

What we see depends mainly on what we look for. --- John Lubbock

-----Original Message-----
From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Judith Korff/Ladysong Farm
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 6:38 PM
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Getting More People into the Alpaca Industry

Thanks, Jim -- I also enjoyed our conversation. For those of you who
weren't privy to that discussion (as in everybody else!), Jim was concerned
that my initiation of a dialogue on unsuitable sales was being specifically
critical of him and his program. That was not my intent, and I apologize if
it was taken that way. Since there are hundreds of readers on alpacasite, I
was concerned that Jim's posts might offer the impression to breeders who
are still formulating their marketing program that exceptionally affordable
start-up packages might help drive sales. While this may be so, those sales
ultimately might not be in the long-range interests of the buyers. When we
breeders focus our marketing in the industry start-up range, there exists
the prospect of innocently "seducing" unsuitable buyers into the industry
through unusually affordable packages, leading them to make decisions they
would not otherwise make -- particularly impulse shopping. Obviously,
careful screening of
start-up buyers would help to avoid that hazard, and that is something that
Jim is also concerned about. This is not to say that a marketing program
directed at this end of the industry is inappropriate, but that it has some
special hazards that anyone undertaking it should consider.

The educational/support component of marketing was another thing that I
(and others here) have mentioned being very concerned about with respect to
sales to newbies. However, in further discussion Jim's marketing program
with him, I learned that Jim's posts on alpacasite have really only covered
the "bare bones" of his program, and had not revealed (or if they did, I
missed it) the educational and support component, which he explained to me
in our talk. Again, I apologize if my comments were taken as critical of
Jim's marketing program. However, I believe it was important that some of
these potential hazards be noted and acknowledged.

Judith Korff
LadySong Farm
2473 Bunker Hill Rd.
P.O. Box 33
Steamburg, NY 14783
(716) 354-6355
A Holistic Management Farm
Conducting a Symphony of Quality, Value and Customer Care

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Alpacasite] Cracked corn and whole oats.

I can't believe that nobody else feels the way I do.............that the
so-called "breeder" who sold these animals should have taken the
responsibility to ensure that the sold alpacas were free from parasites and
otherwise healthy before handing them over to new buyers who apparently know
very little about their care!!!!

Is there someone close to them who can HELP??

Barrie Hanslip
Sooke, BC

----- Original Message -----
From: "tfox799947" <tfox799947@yahoo.com>
To: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 3:06 PM
Subject: [Alpacasite] Cracked corn and whole oats.

> Hello everyone,
>
> Is cracked corn and whole oats OK to give to alpacas in small amounts?
> Also, I just got my alpacas a couple of days ago. The breeder did
> tell me that my 2 pregnant females have one type of parasite and that
> my yearling has emeria. Anyway, what I'm getting at is...I have the
> vet coming out on Monday. Any advise on questions I should be asking
> him?
> Thanks in advance.
> Christine Fox
> Fox's Funny Farm
> Glidden WI

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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Getting More People into the Alpaca Industry

Please!!.............be aware that this sort of thing happens more often
than any of us would like to believe. If you have concerns, you might want
to monitor what is being done to create a Foundation to assist in the
"rescue" of alpacas that find themselves in unfortunate circumstances. The
group is at The_PACA_Foundation@yahoogroups.com This is still in the early
organizational stages, but will be needing all the help it can get.

Barrie Hanslip
Sooke, BC

I just heard of a farm who has a lot of
> acreage, but yet they keep their alpacas in a very very small area and
> then they only feed once a day and they are not given free choice of
> hay. I was told these animals are eating fiber off of each other!!
> There is just too much of this going on and it sickens me.

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Re: [Alpacasite] Digest Number 5165

Hello Everyone,
I have returned to the list from not reading it for about two years. I have
noted that several members have referred to Dr. Evans Field Manual, which I
gathered must be a new handbook. Whilst I appreciate that Australian
conditions might be different in some cases, I think it might also be an
asset. Would someone please send me further details as to price and where
it might be purchased.
Thanks in advance
Diane Royal aureate@yless4u.com.au
Aureate Alpacas,
www.aureatealpacas.com.au

----- Original Message -----
From: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
To: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 3:40 AM
Subject: [Alpacasite] Digest Number 5165

>
> There are 25 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: Thinking out loud - Food for thought
> From: "rchczc" <Radched@aol.com>
> 2. Re: Alpaca Stop over - I90 around Buffalo
> From: "Kathryn Coursey" <kathryn@coursey.org>
> 3. Re: Help! Safe-guard question
> From: "Lisa Robin Olsen" <AlpacaAtlantic@aol.com>
> 4. Re: Breeding Maidens (again)"culling"
> From: "LUCY FARRAR" <FARRAR1036@msn.com>
> 5. Re: Help! Safe-guard question
> From: Barrie Hanslip <bhanslip@shaw.ca>
> 6. The llama song
> From: "sldear2001" <sldear2001@yahoo.com>
> 7. Re: The llama song
> From: "Jamie Flores" <jamie_flrs@yahoo.com>
> 8. Re: Re: Breeding Maidens (again)"culling"
> From: Cathy Stephenson <midnightfire@chestertel.com>
> 9. Re: The llama song
> From: David Friedman <alpacas@adelphia.net>
> 10. Re: The llama song
> From: "Kathryn Coursey" <kathryn@coursey.org>
> 11. Re: The llama song
> From: "Lisa Robin Olsen" <AlpacaAtlantic@aol.com>
> 12. RE: Re: The llama song
> From: "Jay Ward" <jayward@ausablevalleyalpacas.com>
> 13. RE: Help! Safe-guard question
> From: "Jay Ward" <jayward@ausablevalleyalpacas.com>
> 14. Re: Re: Breeding Maidens (again)"culling"
> From: jubileeacres@online.ie
> 15. RE: Help! Safe-guard question
> From: "Steve Hull, TimberLake Farms. Inc"
> <steve@timberlakefarms.net>
> 16. RE: Help! Safe-guard question
> From: "Jay Ward" <jayward@ausablevalleyalpacas.com>
> 17. Re: Re: Breeding Maidens (again)
> From: Cobia Corner Alpacas <seealpacas@cobiacorneralpacas.com>
> 18. Re: Re: The llama song
> From: "Kathryn Coursey" <kathryn@coursey.org>
> 19. RE: Help! Safe-guard question
> From: "Steve Hull, TimberLake Farms. Inc"
> <steve@timberlakefarms.net>
> 20. Re: Re: Breeding Maidens (again)"culling"
> From: Laura Coussens <kcalpaca@premier1.net>
> 21. Re: Help! Safe-guard question
> From: All American Alpacas <alpacas@alpacaweb.com>
> 22. Re: Help! Safe-guard question
> From: "Ellen Prosser" <yenne@mtdata.com>
> 23. Re: Sending blood samples
> From: Stephanie nelson <momstalent@yahoo.com>
> 24. Getting more people into the alpaca business...
> From: "Patricks' Pastures Alpaca Ranch & Habitat"
> <patrickspastures@verizon.net>
> 25. A very blessed Thanksgiving to you
> From: "Wyatt Black" <wyattblack@earthlink.net>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 21:47:07 -0000
> From: "rchczc" <Radched@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Thinking out loud - Food for thought
>
>
> Can't say for pigs or cattle, but many years ago one of own horse club
> member's husband died suddenly of a heart attack, leaving her with 4
> small children. Our club got together several times over the years and
> had fence and barn fixing parties. She already had a college aged girl
> living with her when he died to help train and care for the horses.
> She was able to stay in the business until 3 years ago when her current
> husband was murdered.
>
> I'm a single mother, and I worry about who will take care of my animals
> if I was to die in the next 10 years or so. My mom is in her 70's and
> wouldn't be able to keep up with all the day to day chores for not only
> the pacas but all my other animals. I've had a plan for the other
> animals, but haven't even gotten around to thinking about where the
> pacas would go.
>
> Heidi Christensen
> Graham WA
>
>
>
>> >What happens in other livestock industries when something like this
>> >happens to a rancher or farmer? Are they forced to sell of their
>> >dairy herd or pig ranch? Or do other ranches help them out? I just
>> >don't know.
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 17:27:07 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
> From: "Kathryn Coursey" <kathryn@coursey.org>
> Subject: Re: Alpaca Stop over - I90 around Buffalo
>
> Lars,
>
> more information may get you a better response.
>
> Kathryn & Robert Coursey
> kathryn@coursey.org
> Chipola Alpacas
> in the Panhandle of Florida
> www.chipolaalpacas.com
> (850) 639-6809
> i am a source for weeping willow trees
> and white mulberry trees.
>
> Some folks are like Slinkies,
> Not good for much,
> But ya just can't help but smile
> When you see one tumble down the
> stairs.
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Lars Dahl
> Date: 11/24/05 12:02:43
> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Alpacasite] Alpaca Stop over - I90 around Buffalo
>
> I am looking for a farm to leave 4 female alpacas for part of a day,
> to be picked up for transport to Washington.
> I will be coming via Lewiston bridge crossing tentatively Dec 14 or
> 15th.
>
> Any help greatly appriciated.Email me dahlbrookfarm@sprint.ca
>
> Cheers
> Lars
>
> Dahlbrook Farm
> Cookstown, ON
> www.a-llama.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the
> person
> posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way
> reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
> alpacas@alpacaweb.com
> http://aaalpacas.com
>
>
>
> TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Business finance course Business to business finance Small
> business finance
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 23:25:10 -0000
> From: "Lisa Robin Olsen" <AlpacaAtlantic@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Help! Safe-guard question
>
> Christine,
>
> I can't help but to notice that there is a multitude of "correct"
> protocols for deworming offered by many of the national camelid
> experts. I would think that the key to proper deworming is to know
> what you're worming for -- deworm -- then check to make sure you've
> accomplished your goals. If the animal is still infested with
> parasites (assuming you used the correct wormer), it may suggest
> that those parasites are resistant, and you need to move on to
> another course of action -- under the supervision of your vet.
>
> I'm looking at Dr Evans manual and he suggests using Panacur (22%)
> for 2 consecutive days for the treatment of whip worms (Trichuris).
> He also suggests using Panacur (1 day) for the treatment of tape
> worms (Moniezia) then repeating the worming in 10 days.
>
> Dr Pugh (Oct 2005 handout) says that tapeworms ".....should be
> treated with fenbendazole.............. (20-50 mg/kg) for 3-5
> consecutive days, and repeated in 1 week....."
>
> I could go on, but I'm not sure there is a canned protocol for
> parasite control, or even for the use of Safeguard/Panacur. Seems
> if the previous owner can't tell you what type of parasites your new
> girl has -- you might want to have a fecal rechecked so that you
> know what you're worming for -- then follow the protocol for that
> particular parasite. Remember though to request that the fecal be
> checked using the centrifuge method. If you're vet doesn't do it,
> write me and I'll send you info on where you can have it done.
>
> Just my thoughts. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving all ;)
>
> Warmest Regards,
> Lisa
>
> Alpaca Atlantic of TN: Full-time Ranchers, Full-time Commitment,
> Full-time Support!
> Manchester, Tennessee
> Phone: (931) 728-6945
>
> Web Site: http://www.Alpaca-Atlantic.com
> E-mail: AlpacaAtlantic@aol.com
>
>
>
> --- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hull, TimberLake Farms.
> Inc" <steve@t...> wrote:
>>
>> The dose "of tripling the weight" is the wrong Safe-guard dose -
> too
>> low. The correct dose of the 10% paste is one ml of the paste per
>> ten lbs of alpaca. Three consecutive days is exactly correct.
>>
>> Steve H.
>>
>>
>> At 08:55 AM 11/24/2005, you wrote:
>> >Hi, Christine:
>> >Here's a general rule of thumb for dosing with Safeguard. Take
> your
>> >alpacas weight, and TRIPLE it, and use that guide on the paste
>> >tube. So, if your alpaca weighs 150 lbs, dose for 450 lbs. If
>> >you're not sure of weights, dose a bit higher - much better in
> this
>> >case to overdose than underdose. Also, you must do this for 3
>> >consecutive days. I am assuming that they were fecal tested, and
>> >Safeguard is the prescribed medication.
>> >Have a wonderful Thanksgiving - I'm off to see Mom and Dad now,
> myself!
>> >Barbara Zachary
>> >New Age Alpacas
>> >Atascadero, CA
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: tfox799947
>> > To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>> > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 5:05 AM
>> > Subject: [Alpacasite] Help! Safe-guard question
>> >
>> >
>> > Hello and Happy Thankgiving,
>> > I just had my alpacas delivered last night, my breeder gave me
> so much
>> > information...my head is reelling.
>> > But anyway, she told my that 2 of my pregnant females need to
> be given
>> > Safe-guard because of worms but couldn't remember the dose.
> Could
>> > someone give that to me? I have Dr. Evans Field Manual, but
> that says
>> > 9.1 mg/lb, but that doesn't tell me how many turns of the
> dial. What
>> > kind of worm does that take care of?
>> > Also, my yearling female has emeria? (sp) and has been
> prescribed
>> > Albon twice daily. Can anyone tell me about these parasites?
>> > Thank you in advance for your assistance. I will be waiting
> patiently
>> > for a response so I can medicate the girls...THEN...cook
> dinner.
>> >
>> > Christine Fox
>> > Fox's Funny Farm
>> > Glidden WI
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 17:40:48 -0700
> From: "LUCY FARRAR" <FARRAR1036@msn.com>
> Subject: Re: Breeding Maidens (again)"culling"
>
> Surely with all our collective brains we can come up with a marketing word
> to replace "culling" when used to describe an alpaca that we no longer
> desire in our breeding program for whatever reason, but can be useful in
> another program. For example, I just sold a female that I personally
> didn't want to part with, but we have 2 daughters and 3 granddaughters
> from her in our small herd and a reality-check said we needed to allow
> someone else to reap the results of her fine production. Right now I call
> these "sales" alpacas. If I were a major US corporation, I might call it
> "out sourcing for genetic diversity" or some other coined phrase. When I
> think of "cull", I translate it "shouldn't be of any use to anybody".
> Lucy Farrar
> Front Range Alpacas, LLC
> Monument, CO ph. 719-488-0986
> www.coloradoalpaca.com<http://www.coloradoalpaca.com/>
> Home of Peruvians Desert Sun, Aladdin & now AVANTI !
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:55:13 -0800
> From: Barrie Hanslip <bhanslip@shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: Help! Safe-guard question
>
> Just wondering, but..............why on earth would a breeder send out
> animals in need of worming and medicating!?? Would it not be best to get
> them to the peak of health and then ship them to new owners?
>
> Barrie Hanslip
> Sooke, BC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tfox799947" <tfox799947@yahoo.com>
> To: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 5:05 AM
> Subject: [Alpacasite] Help! Safe-guard question
>
>
>> Hello and Happy Thankgiving,
>> I just had my alpacas delivered last night, my breeder gave me so much
>> information...my head is reelling.
>> But anyway, she told my that 2 of my pregnant females need to be given
>> Safe-guard because of worms but couldn't remember the dose. Could
>> someone give that to me? I have Dr. Evans Field Manual, but that says
>> 9.1 mg/lb, but that doesn't tell me how many turns of the dial. What
>> kind of worm does that take care of?
>> Also, my yearling female has emeria? (sp) and has been prescribed
>> Albon twice daily. Can anyone tell me about these parasites?
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 02:10:17 -0000
> From: "sldear2001" <sldear2001@yahoo.com>
> Subject: The llama song
>
> I just listened to the song again.
> Still love it.
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 03:22:10 -0000
> From: "Jamie Flores" <jamie_flrs@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: The llama song
>
> ??????
>
>
> --- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "sldear2001" <sldear2001@y...> wrote:
>>
>> I just listened to the song again.
>> Still love it.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:55:10 -0500
> From: Cathy Stephenson <midnightfire@chestertel.com>
> Subject: Re: Re: Breeding Maidens (again)"culling"
>
> I think of culling as getting rid of something that carries a trait or an
> idiosychrozie (spelled) that is not desireable or an animal that is not
> useful any longer. Removing daughters and sons from your breeding program
> is healthy breeding and is necessary with all animals.Culling is a word
> nobody wants to deal with. Even me. Those are the animals I wonder what
> happens to. Cathy
> StephenOakes Farms
> Chester, SC
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "LUCY FARRAR" <FARRAR1036@msn.com>
> To: "Alpacasite" <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 7:40 PM
> Subject: [Alpacasite] Re: Breeding Maidens (again)"culling"
>
>
>> Surely with all our collective brains we can come up with a marketing
>> word
>> to replace "culling" when used to describe an alpaca that we no longer
>> desire in our breeding program for whatever reason, but can be useful in
>> another program. For example, I just sold a female that I personally
>> didn't want to part with, but we have 2 daughters and 3 granddaughters
>> from her in our small herd and a reality-check said we needed to allow
>> someone else to reap the results of her fine production. Right now I call
>> these "sales" alpacas. If I were a major US corporation, I might call it
>> "out sourcing for genetic diversity" or some other coined phrase. When I
>> think of "cull", I translate it "shouldn't be of any use to anybody".
>> Lucy Farrar
>> Front Range Alpacas, LLC
>> Monument, CO ph. 719-488-0986
>> www.coloradoalpaca.com<http://www.coloradoalpaca.com/>
>> Home of Peruvians Desert Sun, Aladdin & now AVANTI !
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the
>> person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in
>> no
>> way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>>
>>
>>
>> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>> alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>> http://aaalpacas.com
>>
>>
>>
>> TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 23:04:55 -0500
> From: David Friedman <alpacas@adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: The llama song
>
> You know, I love it too. My wife hates it.
>
> Dave
>
> David & Esther Friedman
> Adirondack Alpacas
> "From the Womb to the Loom"
> 9568 Old Stage Road
> Remsen, NY 13438
> www.newyorkalpacas.com
> 315-831-3040
>
> At 09:10 PM 11/24/2005, you wrote:
>>I just listened to the song again.
>>Still love it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
>>the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
>>message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>>
>>
>>
>>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>>alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>><http://aaalpacas.com>http://aaalpacas.com
>>
>>
>>
>>TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
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>>
>>
>>
>>SPONSORED LINKS
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+finance+course&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Business+to+business+finance&w3=Small+business+finance&w4=Business+finance+consultant&w5=Business+finance+schools&w6=Business+finance+schools&c=6&s=184&.sig=hKyq8vmBshHiprwDbrhHoQ>Business
>>finance course
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+to+business+finance&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Business+to+business+finance&w3=Small+business+finance&w4=Business+finance+consultant&w5=Business+finance+schools&w6=Business+finance+schools&c=6&s=184&.sig=8akn1HuTuB_h9FTVmNsDbA>Business
>>to business finance
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>>finance consultant
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>>finance schools
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+finance+schools&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Business+to+business+finance&w3=Small+business+finance&w4=Business+finance+consultant&w5=Business+finance+schools&w6=Business+finance+schools&c=6&s=184&.sig=2Gv_cqwjtL0LMzV-V6L7Sw>Business
>>finance schools
>>
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 23:26:45 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
> From: "Kathryn Coursey" <kathryn@coursey.org>
> Subject: Re: The llama song
>
> ok... i've lost the link to it and it's about time to pass it around to
> our
> newer members anyway.... any one have the link handy?
>
> Kathryn & Robert Coursey
> kathryn@coursey.org
> Chipola Alpacas
> in the Panhandle of Florida
> www.chipolaalpacas.com
> (850) 639-6809
> i am a source for weeping willow trees
> and white mulberry trees.
>
> Some folks are like Slinkies,
> Not good for much,
> But ya just can't help but smile
> When you see one tumble down the
> stairs.
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: David Friedman
> Date: 11/24/05 23:05:27
> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] The llama song
>
> You know, I love it too. My wife hates it.
>
> Dave
>
> David & Esther Friedman
> Adirondack Alpacas
> "From the Womb to the Loom"
> 9568 Old Stage Road
> Remsen, NY 13438
> www.newyorkalpacas.com
> 315-831-3040
>
> At 09:10 PM 11/24/2005, you wrote:
>>I just listened to the song again.
>>Still love it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
>>the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
>>message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>>
>>
>>
>>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>>alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>><http://aaalpacas.com>http://aaalpacas.com
>>
>>
>>
>>TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join>http://groups.yahoo
> com/group/Alpacasite/join
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>SPONSORED LINKS
>><http://groups.yahoo
> com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+finance+course&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Busines
> +to+business+finance&w3=Small+business+finance&w4=Business+finance+consultant
> w5=Business+finance+schools&w6=Business+finance+schools&c=6&s=184&
> sig=hKyq8vmBshHiprwDbrhHoQ>Business
>>finance course
>><http://groups.yahoo
> com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+to+business+finance&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Bu
> iness+to+business+finance&w3=Small+business+finance&w4=Business+finance+consu
> tant&w5=Business+finance+schools&w6=Business+finance+schools&c=6&s=184&
> sig=8akn1HuTuB_h9FTVmNsDbA>Business
>>to business finance
>><http://groups.yahoo
> com/gads?t=ms&k=Small+business+finance&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Business
> to+business+finance&w3=Small+business+finance&w4=Business+finance+consultant&
> 5=Business+finance+schools&w6=Business+finance+schools&c=6&s=184&
> sig=RfE0BUkDCd4ntuKrNQ5g5g>Small
>>business finance
>><http://groups.yahoo
> com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+finance+consultant&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Bus
> ness+to+business+finance&w3=Small+business+finance&w4=Business+finance+consul
> ant&w5=Business+finance+schools&w6=Business+finance+schools&c=6&s=184&
> sig=nJKO4-7txV6PQuWxom3YKg>Business
>>finance consultant
>><http://groups.yahoo
> com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+finance+schools&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Busine
> s+to+business+finance&w3=Small+business+finance&w4=Business+finance+consultan
> &w5=Business+finance+schools&w6=Business+finance+schools&c=6&s=184&
> sig=2Gv_cqwjtL0LMzV-V6L7Sw>Business
>>finance schools
>><http://groups.yahoo
> com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+finance+schools&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Busine
> s+to+business+finance&w3=Small+business+finance&w4=Business+finance+consultan
> &w5=Business+finance+schools&w6=Business+finance+schools&c=6&s=184&
> sig=2Gv_cqwjtL0LMzV-V6L7Sw>Business
>>finance schools
>>
>>
>>----------
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>>
>> * Visit your group
>> "<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite>Alpacasite" on the web.
>> *
>> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>>
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>>----------
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the
> person
> posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way
> reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
> alpacas@alpacaweb.com
> http://aaalpacas.com
>
>
>
> TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
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> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> Visit your group "Alpacasite" on the web.
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 04:48:42 -0000
> From: "Lisa Robin Olsen" <AlpacaAtlantic@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: The llama song
>
> Kathy,
>
> Sure do:
> http://albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
>
> I've been singing that song for months now. Can't get it out of my
> head!!!
>
> Warmest Regards,
> Lisa Olsen
>
> Alpaca Atlantic of TN: Full-time Ranchers, Full-time Commitment,
> Full-time Support!
> Manchester, Tennessee
> Phone: (931) 728-6945
>
> Web Site: http://www.Alpaca-Atlantic.com
> E-mail: AlpacaAtlantic@aol.com
>
>
>
>
> --- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Kathryn Coursey" <kathryn@c...>
> wrote:
>>
>> ok... i've lost the link to it and it's about time to pass it
> around to our
>> newer members anyway.... any one have the link handy?
>>
>> Kathryn & Robert Coursey
>> kathryn@c...
>> Chipola Alpacas
>> in the Panhandle of Florida
>> www.chipolaalpacas.com
>> (850) 639-6809
>> i am a source for weeping willow trees
>> and white mulberry trees.
>>
>> Some folks are like Slinkies,
>> Not good for much,
>> But ya just can't help but smile
>> When you see one tumble down the
>> stairs.
>>
>>
>> -------Original Message-------
>>
>> From: David Friedman
>> Date: 11/24/05 23:05:27
>> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] The llama song
>>
>> You know, I love it too. My wife hates it.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> David & Esther Friedman
>> Adirondack Alpacas
>> "From the Womb to the Loom"
>> 9568 Old Stage Road
>> Remsen, NY 13438
>> www.newyorkalpacas.com
>> 315-831-3040
>>
>> At 09:10 PM 11/24/2005, you wrote:
>> >I just listened to the song again.
>> >Still love it.
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 01:30:51 -0500
> From: "Jay Ward" <jayward@ausablevalleyalpacas.com>
> Subject: RE: Re: The llama song
>
> My girls will love this one!!
>
>
>
> Jay
>
>
>
> Jay & Julie Ward
> AuSable Valley Alpacas
> 57 Howard Heights Ln.
> Jay, NY 12941
> 518-524-0545 (cell)
> 518-946-7640 (home)
> www.alpacanation.com/ausablevalley.asp
> www.ausablevalleyalpacas.com
> alpaca equipment available at www.LightLivestockEquipment.com
>
> hosting a Steve Hull seminar June 2006:
> www.AuSableValleyAlpacas.com/current%20seminar.htm
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Lisa Robin Olsen
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 11:49 PM
> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Alpacasite] Re: The llama song
>
>
>
> Kathy,
>
>
>
> Sure do:
>
> http://albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
>
>
>
> I've been singing that song for months now. Can't get it out of my
>
> head!!!
>
>
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Lisa Olsen
>
>
>
> Alpaca Atlantic of TN: Full-time Ranchers, Full-time Commitment,
>
> Full-time Support!
>
> Manchester, Tennessee
>
> Phone: (931) 728-6945
>
>
>
> Web Site: http://www.Alpaca-Atlantic.com
>
> E-mail: AlpacaAtlantic@aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Kathryn Coursey" <kathryn@c...>
>
> wrote:
>
>>
>
>> ok... i've lost the link to it and it's about time to pass it
>
> around to our
>
>> newer members anyway.... any one have the link handy?
>
>>
>
>> Kathryn & Robert Coursey
>
>> kathryn@c...
>
>> Chipola Alpacas
>
>> in the Panhandle of Florida
>
>> www.chipolaalpacas.com
>
>> (850) 639-6809
>
>> i am a source for weeping willow trees
>
>> and white mulberry trees.
>
>>
>
>> Some folks are like Slinkies,
>
>> Not good for much,
>
>> But ya just can't help but smile
>
>> When you see one tumble down the
>
>> stairs.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> -------Original Message-------
>
>>
>
>> From: David Friedman
>
>> Date: 11/24/05 23:05:27
>
>> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>
>> Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] The llama song
>
>>
>
>> You know, I love it too. My wife hates it.
>
>>
>
>> Dave
>
>>
>
>> David & Esther Friedman
>
>> Adirondack Alpacas
>
>> "From the Womb to the Loom"
>
>> 9568 Old Stage Road
>
>> Remsen, NY 13438
>
>> www.newyorkalpacas.com
>
>> 315-831-3040
>
>>
>
>> At 09:10 PM 11/24/2005, you wrote:
>
>> >I just listened to the song again.
>
>> >Still love it.
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the
> person
> posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way
> reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
> alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>
> http://aaalpacas.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/
>
>
>
> Alpacasite-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 01:30:51 -0500
> From: "Jay Ward" <jayward@ausablevalleyalpacas.com>
> Subject: RE: Help! Safe-guard question
>
> Steve,
>
>
>
> Does the "triple the weight" dose work for Panacur?
>
>
>
> Jay & Julie Ward
> AuSable Valley Alpacas
> 57 Howard Heights Ln.
> Jay, NY 12941
> 518-524-0545 (cell)
> 518-946-7640 (home)
> www.alpacanation.com/ausablevalley.asp
> www.ausablevalleyalpacas.com
> alpaca equipment available at www.LightLivestockEquipment.com
>
> hosting a Steve Hull seminar June 2006:
> www.AuSableValleyAlpacas.com/current%20seminar.htm
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Steve Hull, TimberLake Farms. Inc
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 2:14 PM
> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Help! Safe-guard question
>
>
>
> The dose "of tripling the weight" is the wrong Safe-guard dose - too
>
> low. The correct dose of the 10% paste is one ml of the paste per
>
> ten lbs of alpaca. Three consecutive days is exactly correct.
>
>
>
> Steve H.
>
>
>
>
>
> At 08:55 AM 11/24/2005, you wrote:
>
>>Hi, Christine:
>
>>Here's a general rule of thumb for dosing with Safeguard. Take your
>
>>alpacas weight, and TRIPLE it, and use that guide on the paste
>
>>tube. So, if your alpaca weighs 150 lbs, dose for 450 lbs. If
>
>>you're not sure of weights, dose a bit higher - much better in this
>
>>case to overdose than underdose. Also, you must do this for 3
>
>>consecutive days. I am assuming that they were fecal tested, and
>
>>Safeguard is the prescribed medication.
>
>>Have a wonderful Thanksgiving - I'm off to see Mom and Dad now, myself!
>
>>Barbara Zachary
>
>>New Age Alpacas
>
>>Atascadero, CA
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>
>> From: tfox799947
>
>> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 5:05 AM
>
>> Subject: [Alpacasite] Help! Safe-guard question
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Hello and Happy Thankgiving,
>
>> I just had my alpacas delivered last night, my breeder gave me so much
>
>> information...my head is reelling.
>
>> But anyway, she told my that 2 of my pregnant females need to be given
>
>> Safe-guard because of worms but couldn't remember the dose. Could
>
>> someone give that to me? I have Dr. Evans Field Manual, but that says
>
>> 9.1 mg/lb, but that doesn't tell me how many turns of the dial. What
>
>> kind of worm does that take care of?
>
>> Also, my yearling female has emeria? (sp) and has been prescribed
>
>> Albon twice daily. Can anyone tell me about these parasites?
>
>> Thank you in advance for your assistance. I will be waiting patiently
>
>> for a response so I can medicate the girls...THEN...cook dinner.
>
>>
>
>> Christine Fox
>
>> Fox's Funny Farm
>
>> Glidden WI
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
>
>> the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
>
>> message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
> alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>
>> http://aaalpacas.com
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> SPONSORED LINKS Business finance course Business to business
>
>> finance Small business finance
>
>> Business finance consultant Business finance
>
>> schools Business finance schools
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
>
>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>>
>
>> a.. Visit your group "Alpacasite" on the web.
>
>>
>
>> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>> Alpacasite-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>>
>
>> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
>
>> of Service.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
>
>>the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
>
>>message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>>alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>
>>http://aaalpacas.com
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>
>
> Steve . . . .
>
>
>
> TimberLake Farms, Inc.
>
> Tom Cameron, D.V.M. & Steve Hull, Ph.D.
>
> Edmond, Oklahoma
>
>
>
> A Full Service Alpaca Farm Including Seminars And Consulting
>
>
>
> www.timberlakefarms.net
>
>
>
> e-mails: mailto:steve@timberlakefarms.net
>
> mailto:tom@timberlakefarms.net
>
>
>
> Farm Telephone: 405 341-8444
>
> Farm Cell Telephone: 405 550-3023
>
> Farm Fax: 405 330-8444
>
>
>
> note: opinions made here are not and cannot be construed to be
>
> specific veterinary advice, diagnosis or treatments. Both Tom and
>
> Steve strongly suggest always checking with your own veterinarian.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the
> person
> posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way
> reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
> alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>
> http://aaalpacas.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/
>
>
>
> Alpacasite-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 03:44:16 -0500
> From: jubileeacres@online.ie
> Subject: Re: Re: Breeding Maidens (again)"culling"
>
> Hi Lucy:
> Sounds like Orsen Wells' "New Speak" to me. I think we should call a
> spade a spade.
>
> Meriam-Websters on line dictionary says that as a verb cull means to
> select or choose from a group. As a noun it means to identify and
> remove the culls. If I remove an animal from my herd because I no
> longer have room or because some one has offered me some outlandish
> price, this is still a cull.
> The little word cull had it's beginnings in middle English, middle
> French, (cuillir) and Latin (colligere). Isn't the English language
> great, use it wisely. -- Wayne
> Southwestern Ontario,
> Canada
> http://jubileeacres.net
> http://wordsmith.fateback.com
>
>
> Quoting LUCY FARRAR <FARRAR1036@msn.com>:
>
>> Surely with all our collective brains we can come up with a marketing
>> word to replace "culling" when used to describe an alpaca that we no
>> longer desire in our breeding program for whatever reason, but can be
>> useful in another program. For example, I just sold a female that I
>> personally didn't want to part with, but we have 2 daughters and 3
>> granddaughters from her in our small herd and a reality-check said we
>> needed to allow someone else to reap the results of her fine
>> production. Right now I call these "sales" alpacas. If I were a major
>> US corporation, I might call it "out sourcing for genetic diversity"
>> or some other coined phrase. When I think of "cull", I translate it
>> "shouldn't be of any use to anybody".
>> Lucy Farrar
>> Front Range Alpacas, LLC
>> Monument, CO ph. 719-488-0986
>> www.coloradoalpaca.com<http://www.coloradoalpaca.com/>
>> Home of Peruvians Desert Sun, Aladdin & now AVANTI !
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the
>> person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message
>> in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>>
>>
>>
>> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>> alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>> http://aaalpacas.com
>>
>>
>>
>> TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 03:50:07 -0600
> From: "Steve Hull, TimberLake Farms. Inc" <steve@timberlakefarms.net>
> Subject: RE: Help! Safe-guard question
>
> Jay,
> Panacur and Safe-Guard are both brand names for the chemical named
> fenbendazole (they are the same). This typically comes as a 10%
> paste. The correct dose is 20 mg/kg which, after all the math, comes
> out to 1 ml per ten lbs of alpaca (or llama).
>
> Steve H.
>
>
> At 12:30 AM 11/25/2005, you wrote:
>>Steve,
>>
>>
>>
>>Does the "triple the weight" dose work for Panacur?
>>
>>
>>
>>Jay & Julie Ward
>>AuSable Valley Alpacas
>>57 Howard Heights Ln.
>>Jay, NY 12941
>>518-524-0545 (cell)
>>518-946-7640 (home)
>>www.alpacanation.com/ausablevalley.asp
>>www.ausablevalleyalpacas.com
>>alpaca equipment available at www.LightLivestockEquipment.com
>>
>>hosting a Steve Hull seminar June 2006:
>>www.AuSableValleyAlpacas.com/current%20seminar.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On
>>Behalf Of Steve Hull, TimberLake Farms. Inc
>>Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 2:14 PM
>>To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Help! Safe-guard question
>>
>>
>>
>>The dose "of tripling the weight" is the wrong Safe-guard dose - too
>>
>>low. The correct dose of the 10% paste is one ml of the paste per
>>
>>ten lbs of alpaca. Three consecutive days is exactly correct.
>>
>>
>>
>>Steve H.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>At 08:55 AM 11/24/2005, you wrote:
>>
>> >Hi, Christine:
>>
>> >Here's a general rule of thumb for dosing with Safeguard. Take your
>>
>> >alpacas weight, and TRIPLE it, and use that guide on the paste
>>
>> >tube. So, if your alpaca weighs 150 lbs, dose for 450 lbs. If
>>
>> >you're not sure of weights, dose a bit higher - much better in this
>>
>> >case to overdose than underdose. Also, you must do this for 3
>>
>> >consecutive days. I am assuming that they were fecal tested, and
>>
>> >Safeguard is the prescribed medication.
>>
>> >Have a wonderful Thanksgiving - I'm off to see Mom and Dad now, myself!
>>
>> >Barbara Zachary
>>
>> >New Age Alpacas
>>
>> >Atascadero, CA
>>
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> > From: tfox799947
>>
>> > To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 5:05 AM
>>
>> > Subject: [Alpacasite] Help! Safe-guard question
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Hello and Happy Thankgiving,
>>
>> > I just had my alpacas delivered last night, my breeder gave me so
>> > much
>>
>> > information...my head is reelling.
>>
>> > But anyway, she told my that 2 of my pregnant females need to be
>> > given
>>
>> > Safe-guard because of worms but couldn't remember the dose. Could
>>
>> > someone give that to me? I have Dr. Evans Field Manual, but that
>> > says
>>
>> > 9.1 mg/lb, but that doesn't tell me how many turns of the dial. What
>>
>> > kind of worm does that take care of?
>>
>> > Also, my yearling female has emeria? (sp) and has been prescribed
>>
>> > Albon twice daily. Can anyone tell me about these parasites?
>>
>> > Thank you in advance for your assistance. I will be waiting
>> > patiently
>>
>> > for a response so I can medicate the girls...THEN...cook dinner.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Christine Fox
>>
>> > Fox's Funny Farm
>>
>> > Glidden WI
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
>>
>> > the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
>>
>> > message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>>alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>>
>> > http://aaalpacas.com
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > SPONSORED LINKS Business finance course Business to business
>>
>> > finance Small business finance
>>
>> > Business finance consultant Business finance
>>
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>>Steve . . . .
>>
>>
>>
>> TimberLake Farms, Inc.
>>
>> Tom Cameron, D.V.M. & Steve Hull, Ph.D.
>>
>> Edmond, Oklahoma
>>
>>
>>
>>A Full Service Alpaca Farm Including Seminars And Consulting
>>
>>
>>
>> www.timberlakefarms.net
>>
>>
>>
>>e-mails: mailto:steve@timberlakefarms.net
>>
>> mailto:tom@timberlakefarms.net
>>
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>> Farm Telephone: 405 341-8444
>>
>> Farm Cell Telephone: 405 550-3023
>>
>> Farm Fax: 405 330-8444
>>
>>
>>
>>note: opinions made here are not and cannot be construed to be
>>
>>specific veterinary advice, diagnosis or treatments. Both Tom and
>>
>>Steve strongly suggest always checking with your own veterinarian.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
> Steve . . . .
>
> TimberLake Farms, Inc.
> Tom Cameron, D.V.M. & Steve Hull, Ph.D.
> Edmond, Oklahoma
>
> A Full Service Alpaca Farm Including Seminars And Consulting
>
> www.timberlakefarms.net
>
> e-mails: mailto:steve@timberlakefarms.net
> mailto:tom@timberlakefarms.net
>
> Farm Telephone: 405 341-8444
> Farm Cell Telephone: 405 550-3023
> Farm Fax: 405 330-8444
>
> note: opinions made here are not and cannot be construed to be
> specific veterinary advice, diagnosis or treatments. Both Tom and
> Steve strongly suggest always checking with your own veterinarian.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 07:51:17 -0500
> From: "Jay Ward" <jayward@ausablevalleyalpacas.com>
> Subject: RE: Help! Safe-guard question
>
> Steve,
>
> I knew that both Panacur & Safe-Guard were both Fenbendazole based but
> understood or apparently misunderstood that they were given at different
> doses.
>
> Can you extend the math further to the use of the weight ring on the
> application tubes?
>
> Jay & Julie Ward
> AuSable Valley Alpacas
> 57 Howard Heights Ln.
> Jay, NY 12941
> 518-524-0545 (cell)
> 518-946-7640 (home)
> www.alpacanation.com/ausablevalley.asp
> www.ausablevalleyalpacas.com
>
> alpaca equipment available at www.LightLivestockEquipment.com
>
> hosting a Steve Hull seminar June 2006:
> www.AuSableValleyAlpacas.com/current%20seminar.htm
>
> Jay,
> Panacur and Safe-Guard are both brand names for the chemical named
> fenbendazole (they are the same). This typically comes as a 10%
> paste. The correct dose is 20 mg/kg which, after all the math, comes
> out to 1 ml per ten lbs of alpaca (or llama).
>
> Steve H.
>
>
> At 12:30 AM 11/25/2005, you wrote:
>>Steve,
>>
>>
>>
>>Does the "triple the weight" dose work for Panacur?
>>
>>
>>
>>Jay & Julie Ward
>>AuSable Valley Alpacas
>>57 Howard Heights Ln.
>>Jay, NY 12941
>>518-524-0545 (cell)
>>518-946-7640 (home)
>>www.alpacanation.com/ausablevalley.asp
>>www.ausablevalleyalpacas.com
>>alpaca equipment available at www.LightLivestockEquipment.com
>>
>>hosting a Steve Hull seminar June 2006:
>>www.AuSableValleyAlpacas.com/current%20seminar.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On
>>Behalf Of Steve Hull, TimberLake Farms. Inc
>>Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 2:14 PM
>>To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Help! Safe-guard question
>>
>>
>>
>>The dose "of tripling the weight" is the wrong Safe-guard dose - too
>>
>>low. The correct dose of the 10% paste is one ml of the paste per
>>
>>ten lbs of alpaca. Three consecutive days is exactly correct.
>>
>>
>>
>>Steve H.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>At 08:55 AM 11/24/2005, you wrote:
>>
>> >Hi, Christine:
>>
>> >Here's a general rule of thumb for dosing with Safeguard. Take your
>>
>> >alpacas weight, and TRIPLE it, and use that guide on the paste
>>
>> >tube. So, if your alpaca weighs 150 lbs, dose for 450 lbs. If
>>
>> >you're not sure of weights, dose a bit higher - much better in this
>>
>> >case to overdose than underdose. Also, you must do this for 3
>>
>> >consecutive days. I am assuming that they were fecal tested, and
>>
>> >Safeguard is the prescribed medication.
>>
>> >Have a wonderful Thanksgiving - I'm off to see Mom and Dad now, myself!
>>
>> >Barbara Zachary
>>
>> >New Age Alpacas
>>
>> >Atascadero, CA
>>
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> > From: tfox799947
>>
>> > To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 5:05 AM
>>
>> > Subject: [Alpacasite] Help! Safe-guard question
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Hello and Happy Thankgiving,
>>
>> > I just had my alpacas delivered last night, my breeder gave me so
>> > much
>>
>> > information...my head is reelling.
>>
>> > But anyway, she told my that 2 of my pregnant females need to be
>> > given
>>
>> > Safe-guard because of worms but couldn't remember the dose. Could
>>
>> > someone give that to me? I have Dr. Evans Field Manual, but that
>> > says
>>
>> > 9.1 mg/lb, but that doesn't tell me how many turns of the dial. What
>>
>> > kind of worm does that take care of?
>>
>> > Also, my yearling female has emeria? (sp) and has been prescribed
>>
>> > Albon twice daily. Can anyone tell me about these parasites?
>>
>> > Thank you in advance for your assistance. I will be waiting
>> > patiently
>>
>> > for a response so I can medicate the girls...THEN...cook dinner.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Christine Fox
>>
>> > Fox's Funny Farm
>>
>> > Glidden WI
>>
>> >
>>
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>> > List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>>alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>>
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>>
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>> >
>>
>> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>> >
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>> >List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
> alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>>
>> >http://aaalpacas.com
>>
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>>
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>>
>> >
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>> >
>>
>> >
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>Steve . . . .
>>
>>
>>
>> TimberLake Farms, Inc.
>>
>> Tom Cameron, D.V.M. & Steve Hull, Ph.D.
>>
>> Edmond, Oklahoma
>>
>>
>>
>>A Full Service Alpaca Farm Including Seminars And Consulting
>>
>>
>>
>> www.timberlakefarms.net
>>
>>
>>
>>e-mails: mailto:steve@timberlakefarms.net
>>
>> mailto:tom@timberlakefarms.net
>>
>>
>>
>> Farm Telephone: 405 341-8444
>>
>> Farm Cell Telephone: 405 550-3023
>>
>> Farm Fax: 405 330-8444
>>
>>
>>
>>note: opinions made here are not and cannot be construed to be
>>
>>specific veterinary advice, diagnosis or treatments. Both Tom and
>>
>>Steve strongly suggest always checking with your own veterinarian.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the
> person
>>posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way
>>reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>>
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>>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>>alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>>
>>http://aaalpacas.com
>>
>>
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>>
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>>TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
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>
> Steve . . . .
>
> TimberLake Farms, Inc.
> Tom Cameron, D.V.M. & Steve Hull, Ph.D.
> Edmond, Oklahoma
>
> A Full Service Alpaca Farm Including Seminars And Consulting
>
> www.timberlakefarms.net
>
> e-mails: mailto:steve@timberlakefarms.net
> mailto:tom@timberlakefarms.net
>
> Farm Telephone: 405 341-8444
> Farm Cell Telephone: 405 550-3023
> Farm Fax: 405 330-8444
>
> note: opinions made here are not and cannot be construed to be
> specific veterinary advice, diagnosis or treatments. Both Tom and
> Steve strongly suggest always checking with your own veterinarian.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
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> posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 08:02:06 -0500
> From: Cobia Corner Alpacas <seealpacas@cobiacorneralpacas.com>
> Subject: Re: Re: Breeding Maidens (again)
>
> Ok, so help me understand how culling and selling are the same,
> because I don't think they are the same. I agree with Ian not every
> owner is selling to "cull" the herd. Does the owner of a female that
> sells for $130K at an auction need to identify the "reason for sale"?
> I think he simply has a good animal and is wiling to sell it. Does
> that same owner who buys half a stud male for $300K need to get an
> explanation as to why the stud male owner sold half the animal? No
> again I don't think so. And yes there is a person in our industry who
> recently did those things. For this breeder culling his herd is not
> the same as selling. If you go to a Jerry Forestner work shop he
> will tell you that "they are all for sale. It just depends on the
> price." The sale of animal, fiber and or product is why we are in
> business. I don't think that needs to be disclosed at every sale.
>
> Jim Cobia
> Cobia Corner Alpacas
> Hilton, NY 14468
>
>
>
> At 01:48 PM 11/24/2005, you wrote:
>>Wayne,
>>I think people should be aware that culling is a word to describe an
>>animal that is no longer wanted within a herd or breeding program.
>>As the industry matures more and more animals will be culled for age
>>(cfa in the sheep industries) but will still have a useful role as
>>breeders in other breeding programs.
>>Culling for genetic defects including poor fecundity, poor milking
>>ability, etc should be reflected in both the price and the removal of
>>breeding papers so these genes are not disributed throughout the
>>national herd.
>>Sadly, I suspect that some people have a real reluctance to go that
>>far, nor do they declare the reason for the sale and thus allow these
>>animals to keep reproducing to the detriment of both themselves (in
>>the long run), the national gene pool and the unsuspecting buyer.
>>I am not so sure though that breeders need to identify reasons for
>>sale as a standard.
>>Cheers,
>>Ian Watt
>>On Nov 24, 2005, at 12:09 AM, jubileeacres@online.ie wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Cathy:
>> > What do you do with culled animals now?
>> >
>> > Keep in mind that culling is just removing the animal from the
>> > breeding
>> > herd. A culled animal may still be good for fiber.
>> >
>> > Also if your herd is of a high enough quality your culls may improve
>> > some one else's beading herd. I would just love to get the culls
>> > from a
>> > few of the top breeders.
>> >
>> > When selling full disclosure is the important thing. I am
>> > selling/culling this animal because ______ should be a statement made
>> > in every sale.
>> > --
>> > Wayne
>> > Southwestern Ontario,
>> > Canada
>> > http://jubileeacres.net
>> > http://wordsmith.fateback.com
>> >
>> >
>> > Quoting Cathy Stephenson <midnightfire@chestertel.com>:
>> >
>> >> Okay here goes the question again seeings how the door is open
>> >> again. If we
>> >> don't want this as a breed standard---what do you do with culled
>> >> animals? I
>> >> know what a dairy or beef herd does but I also realize that
>> >> alpacas are
>> >> vastly different. So what do you do. Pass an unexceptable
>> >> breeder of on
>> >> another unsuspecting newby to deal with? What a way to build a
>> >> good name.
>> >> Cathy
>> >> StephenOakes Farms
>> >> Chester, SC
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
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>> > message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>> >
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>> > List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>> > alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>> > http://aaalpacas.com
>> >
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>> > TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
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>> >
>> >
>> >
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>>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
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>>message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>>
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>>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>>alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>>http://aaalpacas.com
>>
>>
>>
>>TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 08:22:41 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
> From: "Kathryn Coursey" <kathryn@coursey.org>
> Subject: Re: Re: The llama song
>
> thanks Lisa! STILL makes me grin!
>
> Kathryn & Robert Coursey
> kathryn@coursey.org
> Chipola Alpacas
> in the Panhandle of Florida
> www.chipolaalpacas.com
> (850) 639-6809
> i am a source for weeping willow trees
> and white mulberry trees.
>
> Some folks are like Slinkies,
> Not good for much,
> But ya just can't help but smile
> When you see one tumble down the
> stairs.
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Lisa Robin Olsen
> Date: 11/24/05 23:49:14
> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Alpacasite] Re: The llama song
>
> Kathy,
>
> Sure do:
> http://albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
>
> I've been singing that song for months now. Can't get it out of my
> head!!!
>
> Warmest Regards,
> Lisa Olsen
>
> Alpaca Atlantic of TN: Full-time Ranchers, Full-time Commitment,
> Full-time Support!
> Manchester, Tennessee
> Phone: (931) 728-6945
>
> Web Site: http://www.Alpaca-Atlantic.com
> E-mail: AlpacaAtlantic@aol.com
>
>
>
>
> --- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Kathryn Coursey" <kathryn@c...>
> wrote:
>>
>> ok... i've lost the link to it and it's about time to pass it
> around to our
>> newer members anyway.... any one have the link handy?
>>
>> Kathryn & Robert Coursey
>> kathryn@c...
>> Chipola Alpacas
>> in the Panhandle of Florida
>> www.chipolaalpacas.com
>> (850) 639-6809
>> i am a source for weeping willow trees
>> and white mulberry trees.
>>
>> Some folks are like Slinkies,
>> Not good for much,
>> But ya just can't help but smile
>> When you see one tumble down the
>> stairs.
>>
>>
>> -------Original Message-------
>>
>> From: David Friedman
>> Date: 11/24/05 23:05:27
>> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] The llama song
>>
>> You know, I love it too. My wife hates it.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> David & Esther Friedman
>> Adirondack Alpacas
>> "From the Womb to the Loom"
>> 9568 Old Stage Road
>> Remsen, NY 13438
>> www.newyorkalpacas.com
>> 315-831-3040
>>
>> At 09:10 PM 11/24/2005, you wrote:
>> >I just listened to the song again.
>> >Still love it.
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the
> person
> posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way
> reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
> alpacas@alpacaweb.com
> http://aaalpacas.com
>
>
>
> TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>
>
>
>
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>
> Visit your group "Alpacasite" on the web.
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 07:02:53 -0600
> From: "Steve Hull, TimberLake Farms. Inc" <steve@timberlakefarms.net>
> Subject: RE: Help! Safe-guard question
>
> Jay, do NOT use the weight ring. Rather, use the plunger on the
> store tube to fill a 20 or 30 ml syringe with a feeding tip with the
> paste. Then use THAT syringe to dose. I am assuming that you have
> gotten a diagnosis from your vet that you have parasites and that the
> vet has used the proper centrifuge test.
>
> That dose is 1 ml of paste per ten lbs. The, about two weeks after
> worming, send in a second fecal to make sure you killed what you first
> saw.
>
> It is not good to routinely worm with Safe-Guard or Panacur. Rather,
> they must be used after you see parasites. Routine use only causes
> super resistant parasites that no wormer will kill.
>
> Steve H.
>
>
> At 06:51 AM 11/25/2005, you wrote:
>>Steve,
>>
>>I knew that both Panacur & Safe-Guard were both Fenbendazole based but
>>understood or apparently misunderstood that they were given at different
>>doses.
>>
>>Can you extend the math further to the use of the weight ring on the
>>application tubes?
>>
>>Jay & Julie Ward
>>AuSable Valley Alpacas
>>57 Howard Heights Ln.
>>Jay, NY 12941
>>518-524-0545 (cell)
>>518-946-7640 (home)
>>www.alpacanation.com/ausablevalley.asp
>>www.ausablevalleyalpacas.com
>>
>>alpaca equipment available at www.LightLivestockEquipment.com
>>
>>hosting a Steve Hull seminar June 2006:
>>www.AuSableValleyAlpacas.com/current%20seminar.htm
>>
>>Jay,
>>Panacur and Safe-Guard are both brand names for the chemical named
>>fenbendazole (they are the same). This typically comes as a 10%
>>paste. The correct dose is 20 mg/kg which, after all the math, comes
>>out to 1 ml per ten lbs of alpaca (or llama).
>>
>>Steve H.
>>
>>
>>At 12:30 AM 11/25/2005, you wrote:
>> >Steve,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Does the "triple the weight" dose work for Panacur?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Jay & Julie Ward
>> >AuSable Valley Alpacas
>> >57 Howard Heights Ln.
>> >Jay, NY 12941
>> >518-524-0545 (cell)
>> >518-946-7640 (home)
>> >www.alpacanation.com/ausablevalley.asp
>> >www.ausablevalleyalpacas.com
>> >alpaca equipment available at www.LightLivestockEquipment.com
>> >
>> >hosting a Steve Hull seminar June 2006:
>> >www.AuSableValleyAlpacas.com/current%20seminar.htm
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On
>> >Behalf Of Steve Hull, TimberLake Farms. Inc
>> >Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 2:14 PM
>> >To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>> >Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Help! Safe-guard question
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >The dose "of tripling the weight" is the wrong Safe-guard dose - too
>> >
>> >low. The correct dose of the 10% paste is one ml of the paste per
>> >
>> >ten lbs of alpaca. Three consecutive days is exactly correct.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Steve H.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >At 08:55 AM 11/24/2005, you wrote:
>> >
>> > >Hi, Christine:
>> >
>> > >Here's a general rule of thumb for dosing with Safeguard. Take your
>> >
>> > >alpacas weight, and TRIPLE it, and use that guide on the paste
>> >
>> > >tube. So, if your alpaca weighs 150 lbs, dose for 450 lbs. If
>> >
>> > >you're not sure of weights, dose a bit higher - much better in this
>> >
>> > >case to overdose than underdose. Also, you must do this for 3
>> >
>> > >consecutive days. I am assuming that they were fecal tested, and
>> >
>> > >Safeguard is the prescribed medication.
>> >
>> > >Have a wonderful Thanksgiving - I'm off to see Mom and Dad now,
>> > >myself!
>> >
>> > >Barbara Zachary
>> >
>> > >New Age Alpacas
>> >
>> > >Atascadero, CA
>> >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> >
>> > > From: tfox799947
>> >
>> > > To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>> >
>> > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 5:05 AM
>> >
>> > > Subject: [Alpacasite] Help! Safe-guard question
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Hello and Happy Thankgiving,
>> >
>> > > I just had my alpacas delivered last night, my breeder gave me so
>> > > much
>> >
>> > > information...my head is reelling.
>> >
>> > > But anyway, she told my that 2 of my pregnant females need to be
>> > > given
>> >
>> > > Safe-guard because of worms but couldn't remember the dose. Could
>> >
>> > > someone give that to me? I have Dr. Evans Field Manual, but that
>> > > says
>> >
>> > > 9.1 mg/lb, but that doesn't tell me how many turns of the dial.
>> > > What
>> >
>> > > kind of worm does that take care of?
>> >
>> > > Also, my yearling female has emeria? (sp) and has been prescribed
>> >
>> > > Albon twice daily. Can anyone tell me about these parasites?
>> >
>> > > Thank you in advance for your assistance. I will be waiting
>> > > patiently
>> >
>> > > for a response so I can medicate the girls...THEN...cook dinner.
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Christine Fox
>> >
>> > > Fox's Funny Farm
>> >
>> > > Glidden WI
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
>> >
>> > > the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
>> >
>> > > message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>> >alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>> >
>> > > http://aaalpacas.com
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit
>> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > SPONSORED LINKS Business finance course Business to business
>> >
>> > > finance Small business finance
>> >
>> > > Business finance consultant Business finance
>> >
>> > > schools Business finance schools
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >---
>> >
>> > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > a.. Visit your group "Alpacasite" on the web.
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> >
>> > > Alpacasite-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
>> >
>> > > of Service.
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >---
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
>> >
>> > >the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
>> >
>> > >message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>>alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>> >
>> > >http://aaalpacas.com
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>> >
>> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Steve . . . .
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > TimberLake Farms, Inc.
>> >
>> > Tom Cameron, D.V.M. & Steve Hull, Ph.D.
>> >
>> > Edmond, Oklahoma
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >A Full Service Alpaca Farm Including Seminars And Consulting
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > www.timberlakefarms.net
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >e-mails: mailto:steve@timberlakefarms.net
>> >
>> > mailto:tom@timberlakefarms.net
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Farm Telephone: 405 341-8444
>> >
>> > Farm Cell Telephone: 405 550-3023
>> >
>> > Farm Fax: 405 330-8444
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >note: opinions made here are not and cannot be construed to be
>> >
>> >specific veterinary advice, diagnosis or treatments. Both Tom and
>> >
>> >Steve strongly suggest always checking with your own veterinarian.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the
>>person
>> >posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way
>> >reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>> >alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>> >
>> >http://aaalpacas.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>> >
>> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Alpacasite-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
>> >the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
>> >message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>> >alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>> >http://aaalpacas.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>Steve . . . .
>>
>> TimberLake Farms, Inc.
>> Tom Cameron, D.V.M. & Steve Hull, Ph.D.
>> Edmond, Oklahoma
>>
>>A Full Service Alpaca Farm Including Seminars And Consulting
>>
>> www.timberlakefarms.net
>>
>>e-mails: mailto:steve@timberlakefarms.net
>> mailto:tom@timberlakefarms.net
>>
>> Farm Telephone: 405 341-8444
>> Farm Cell Telephone: 405 550-3023
>> Farm Fax: 405 330-8444
>>
>>note: opinions made here are not and cannot be construed to be
>>specific veterinary advice, diagnosis or treatments. Both Tom and
>>Steve strongly suggest always checking with your own veterinarian.
>>
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the
>>person
>>posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way
>>reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>>
>>
>>
>>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>>alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>>http://aaalpacas.com
>>
>>
>>
>>TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
>>the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
>>message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>>
>>
>>
>>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>>alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>>http://aaalpacas.com
>>
>>
>>
>>TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Steve . . . .
>
> TimberLake Farms, Inc.
> Tom Cameron, D.V.M. & Steve Hull, Ph.D.
> Edmond, Oklahoma
>
> A Full Service Alpaca Farm Including Seminars And Consulting
>
> www.timberlakefarms.net
>
> e-mails: mailto:steve@timberlakefarms.net
> mailto:tom@timberlakefarms.net
>
> Farm Telephone: 405 341-8444
> Farm Cell Telephone: 405 550-3023
> Farm Fax: 405 330-8444
>
> note: opinions made here are not and cannot be construed to be
> specific veterinary advice, diagnosis or treatments. Both Tom and
> Steve strongly suggest always checking with your own veterinarian.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 06:34:52 -0800
> From: Laura Coussens <kcalpaca@premier1.net>
> Subject: Re: Re: Breeding Maidens (again)"culling"
>
> I think you're right. The word is simply "sell". There are many
> reasons for selling and that is where disclosure by the seller and
> becoming an informed buyer come into play, IMO.
>
> Laura Coussens
> Kissin' Coussens Alpacas <www.alpacanation.com/kissincoussens.asp>
>
> LUCY FARRAR wrote:
>
>>Surely with all our collective brains we can come up with a marketing word
>>to replace "culling" when used to describe an alpaca that we no longer
>>desire in our breeding program for whatever reason, but can be useful in
>>another program. For example, I just sold a female that I personally
>>didn't want to part with, but we have 2 daughters and 3 granddaughters
>>from her in our small herd and a reality-check said we needed to allow
>>someone else to reap the results of her fine production. Right now I call
>>these "sales" alpacas. If I were a major US corporation, I might call it
>>"out sourcing for genetic diversity" or some other coined phrase. When I
>>think of "cull", I translate it "shouldn't be of any use to anybody".
>>Lucy Farrar
>>Front Range Alpacas, LLC
>>Monument, CO ph. 719-488-0986
>>www.coloradoalpaca.com<http://www.coloradoalpaca.com/>
>>Home of Peruvians Desert Sun, Aladdin & now AVANTI !
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 07:56:14 -0800
> From: All American Alpacas <alpacas@alpacaweb.com>
> Subject: Re: Help! Safe-guard question
>
> Actually, they are the same product made by the same company.
> I ran into a company rep at a feed store, he told me that Safeguard was
> for
> over the counter, and Panacur was supposed to sold to vets only.
> That way, if a vet came out to worm a horse, the owner wouldn't complain
> of
> the cost for the same wormer that they could buy for less at the local
> feed
> store.
> I'll guess you have the small 25 ml tubes, the dial ring goes to 1000.
> Now, using the 1ml/10 lb you have enough to treat 250lbs of alpaca.
> 250 lb alpaca, the whole tube (and diet and exercise)
> 200 lb alpaca, would equal 20 ml, turn the dial to 800
> 150 lb, turn the dial to 600 and you're giving 15 ml
>
> Rick
> --
> Rick & Pati Horn
> All American Alpacas
> Murrieta, Ca.
> http://aaalpacas.com/updates.html
> alpacas@alpacaweb.com - alpacas(at)alpacaweb.com
> (951) 679-7795
> Life is good!
>
>> From: "Jay Ward" <jayward@ausablevalleyalpacas.com>
>> Reply-To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 07:51:17 -0500
>> To: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: RE: [Alpacasite] Help! Safe-guard question
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>> I knew that both Panacur & Safe-Guard were both Fenbendazole based but
>> understood or apparently misunderstood that they were given at different
>> doses.
>>
>> Can you extend the math further to the use of the weight ring on the
>> application tubes?
>>
>> Jay & Julie Ward
>> AuSable Valley Alpacas
>> 57 Howard Heights Ln.
>> Jay, NY 12941
>> 518-524-0545 (cell)
>> 518-946-7640 (home)
>> www.alpacanation.com/ausablevalley.asp
>> www.ausablevalleyalpacas.com
>>
>> alpaca equipment available at www.LightLivestockEquipment.com
>>
>> hosting a Steve Hull seminar June 2006:
>> www.AuSableValleyAlpacas.com/current%20seminar.htm
>>
>> Jay,
>> Panacur and Safe-Guard are both brand names for the chemical named
>> fenbendazole (they are the same). This typically comes as a 10%
>> paste. The correct dose is 20 mg/kg which, after all the math, comes
>> out to 1 ml per ten lbs of alpaca (or llama).
>>
>> Steve H.
>>
>>
>> At 12:30 AM 11/25/2005, you wrote:
>>> Steve,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does the "triple the weight" dose work for Panacur?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jay & Julie Ward
>>> AuSable Valley Alpacas
>>> 57 Howard Heights Ln.
>>> Jay, NY 12941
>>> 518-524-0545 (cell)
>>> 518-946-7640 (home)
>>> www.alpacanation.com/ausablevalley.asp
>>> www.ausablevalleyalpacas.com
>>> alpaca equipment available at www.LightLivestockEquipment.com
>>>
>>> hosting a Steve Hull seminar June 2006:
>>> www.AuSableValleyAlpacas.com/current%20seminar.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On
>>> Behalf Of Steve Hull, TimberLake Farms. Inc
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 2:14 PM
>>> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Help! Safe-guard question
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The dose "of tripling the weight" is the wrong Safe-guard dose - too
>>>
>>> low. The correct dose of the 10% paste is one ml of the paste per
>>>
>>> ten lbs of alpaca. Three consecutive days is exactly correct.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve H.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At 08:55 AM 11/24/2005, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, Christine:
>>>
>>>> Here's a general rule of thumb for dosing with Safeguard. Take your
>>>
>>>> alpacas weight, and TRIPLE it, and use that guide on the paste
>>>
>>>> tube. So, if your alpaca weighs 150 lbs, dose for 450 lbs. If
>>>
>>>> you're not sure of weights, dose a bit higher - much better in this
>>>
>>>> case to overdose than underdose. Also, you must do this for 3
>>>
>>>> consecutive days. I am assuming that they were fecal tested, and
>>>
>>>> Safeguard is the prescribed medication.
>>>
>>>> Have a wonderful Thanksgiving - I'm off to see Mom and Dad now, myself!
>>>
>>>> Barbara Zachary
>>>
>>>> New Age Alpacas
>>>
>>>> Atascadero, CA
>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>>> From: tfox799947
>>>
>>>> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 5:05 AM
>>>
>>>> Subject: [Alpacasite] Help! Safe-guard question
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello and Happy Thankgiving,
>>>
>>>> I just had my alpacas delivered last night, my breeder gave me so
>>>> much
>>>
>>>> information...my head is reelling.
>>>
>>>> But anyway, she told my that 2 of my pregnant females need to be
>>>> given
>>>
>>>> Safe-guard because of worms but couldn't remember the dose. Could
>>>
>>>> someone give that to me? I have Dr. Evans Field Manual, but that
>>>> says
>>>
>>>> 9.1 mg/lb, but that doesn't tell me how many turns of the dial. What
>>>
>>>> kind of worm does that take care of?
>>>
>>>> Also, my yearling female has emeria? (sp) and has been prescribed
>>>
>>>> Albon twice daily. Can anyone tell me about these parasites?
>>>
>>>> Thank you in advance for your assistance. I will be waiting
>>>> patiently
>>>
>>>> for a response so I can medicate the girls...THEN...cook dinner.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Christine Fox
>>>
>>>> Fox's Funny Farm
>>>
>>>> Glidden WI
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
>>>
>>>> the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
>>>
>>>> message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>>> alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>>>
>>>> http://aaalpacas.com
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> SPONSORED LINKS Business finance course Business to business
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ---
>>>
>>>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> a.. Visit your group "Alpacasite" on the web.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>>
>>>> Alpacasite-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
>>>
>>>> of Service.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ---
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
>>>
>>>> the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
>>>
>>>> message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>> alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>>>
>>>> http://aaalpacas.com
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>>>
>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve . . . .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TimberLake Farms, Inc.
>>>
>>> Tom Cameron, D.V.M. & Steve Hull, Ph.D.
>>>
>>> Edmond, Oklahoma
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A Full Service Alpaca Farm Including Seminars And Consulting
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> www.timberlakefarms.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> e-mails: mailto:steve@timberlakefarms.net
>>>
>>> mailto:tom@timberlakefarms.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Farm Telephone: 405 341-8444
>>>
>>> Farm Cell Telephone: 405 550-3023
>>>
>>> Farm Fax: 405 330-8444
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> note: opinions made here are not and cannot be construed to be
>>>
>>> specific veterinary advice, diagnosis or treatments. Both Tom and
>>>
>>> Steve strongly suggest always checking with your own veterinarian.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the
>> person
>>> posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way
>>> reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>>> alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>>>
>>> http://aaalpacas.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alpacasite-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
>>> the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
>>> message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>>> alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>>> http://aaalpacas.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Steve . . . .
>>
>> TimberLake Farms, Inc.
>> Tom Cameron, D.V.M. & Steve Hull, Ph.D.
>> Edmond, Oklahoma
>>
>> A Full Service Alpaca Farm Including Seminars And Consulting
>>
>> www.timberlakefarms.net
>>
>> e-mails: mailto:steve@timberlakefarms.net
>> mailto:tom@timberlakefarms.net
>>
>> Farm Telephone: 405 341-8444
>> Farm Cell Telephone: 405 550-3023
>> Farm Fax: 405 330-8444
>>
>> note: opinions made here are not and cannot be construed to be
>> specific veterinary advice, diagnosis or treatments. Both Tom and
>> Steve strongly suggest always checking with your own veterinarian.
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
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> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:03:48 -0500
> From: "Ellen Prosser" <yenne@mtdata.com>
> Subject: Re: Help! Safe-guard question
>
> isn't dr anderson's current recommendation 8 times the cattle dose? We
> have
> quit using it, since it seems about as effective as feeding them cake
> frosting.... We are currently using decto, valbazen and levamasol (
> reluctantly). I have been reading some interesting info on using
> granulated
> garlic, we may try that as a supplemental wormer. ellen/colrain
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 08:12:51 -0800 (PST)
> From: Stephanie nelson <momstalent@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Sending blood samples
>
> Just a thought from one who has worked in a "people lab"...
>
> Be careful with the ice packs. Some samples are no good if they are
> frozen and some samples are no good if they are not refrigerated in some
> way. Also, some samples have time limits as some of the components tend
> to break down over time. My suggestion is to call the lab for their
> requirements and then ship the fastest way possible.
>
> HTH
> Steph in Wyoming
> who is just learning about alpacas and who lurks most of the time
>
> Liz Mitchko <lizm@webound.com> wrote:
> Good Morning Sue;
> According to my talk years ago with the postmaster, the "proper" way to
> ship blood samples via USPS is:
>
> tape container closed (scotch tape is fine) Yes, I know there are the
> little tabs, but they do sometimes break/pop.
>
> roll sample in paper towel (I put up to 6 in each towel when sending the
> small vials to M&M--this will start to absorb any blood) and tape towel so
> it does not unwind.
>
> Place roll (s) of papertowel with vial(s) into a zip-lock sandwich bag (or
> snack size)- seal
>
> Place zip-lock sandwich bag into a padded mail envelope with form filled
> out
> for Mel.--At this time of year you don't really need any ice packs, but if
> you use one, put it here. There are companies that made some great flat
> one
> that will fit.
> I always address this padded envelope and write "Veterinary Blood Samples
> Enclosed for Pregnancy Testing" (the layman can understand this rather
> than
> Alpaca Progesterone Specimines!
>
> Place padded mail envelope into the hard "flat rate" express mail envelope
> and mail.
>
> This takes care of the "three tier" protection they request. If you are
> sending via FedEx, they have a special envelope marked biohazzard that
> needs
> to be used. Hope this help and that you get the results you are seeking!
>
> Happy T-day!
> Hums,
> Liz Mitchko
> Whirlwind Ranch
> Lebanon MO
> www.whirlwindranch.com
> www.alpacanation.com/whirlwind.asp
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "andesdandies" <sue@andesdandies.com>
> To: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 9:50 PM
> Subject: [Alpacasite] Sending blood samples
>
>
>> Hi list,
>>
>> Sorry if this is a repeat question, but I can't find the answer online
>> or in my archives. What are the procedures to send a blood sample to
>> M&M labs (or another lab)? We have their form, and their little plastic
>> containers, but no directions, and nothing on their site. In this day &
>> age of mail security, and biosecurity, I find it hard to believe I can
>> just pop it in any old envelope & mail it off? Blood??
>>
>> Of course, this being the holiday weekend I'm not likely to get anyone
>> at the lab to answer me, and also it is the weekend I have help here to
>> draw the blood...
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Sue Zelazny
>> Andes Dandies, LLC
>> http://www.andesdandies.com
>> Middleport, NY
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the
>> person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in
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>> way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>>
>>
>>
>> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>> alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>> http://aaalpacas.com
>>
>>
>>
>> TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
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>
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> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 10:16:35 -0600
> From: "Patricks' Pastures Alpaca Ranch & Habitat"
> <patrickspastures@verizon.net>
> Subject: Getting more people into the alpaca business...
>
> I throw this subject to the group for discussion...and to think
> about...this is not a political item. I am looking at our industry as a
> strategic planner and sociologist specializing in demographics.
>
> Over the next few years a number of our current alpaca farms and ranches
> will leave the industry due to a single item...old age.
>
> For every 2 established farms leaving the industry, we are going to have
> to find 10 new entrees. Most likely, the largest portion of the 'newbees'
> will be in the 30 - 45 year old age group with a couple for kids still at
> home and with limited liquid assets. My feeling is for every 10 newbees,
> here's what the fallout might look like within 5 years:
> a.. 4 - 5 of the 10 will cease doing businesses due to divorce (the
> national average)
> b.. 1.5 will have to take care of older parent or relatives, a partner or
> themselves due to illness and not have time for the animals
> c.. .5 will have financial issues and liquidate
> d.. .5 will lose interest and fire sale
> This means only about 2 will make it past the 5 year mark....or that for
> every 2 current alpaca business that have been around more than 5 years
> and have to leave the business, that we will need 10 replacements just to
> stay even.
>
> Our U.S. herd is growing fast as so is the number of older alpacas.
> Recycling the current herd is very important to not flooding the market
> with alpacas that can not be sold. Finding buyers for new or yet to be
> born alpacas needs to be of interest to all of us...this includes fiber
> boys. If we continue to sell the majority of animals only to the current
> farms and ranches, there will be a limit to how many alpacas many farms or
> ranches can financially or physically absorb.
>
> WE SHOULD NOT BE BREEDING LOW QUALITY MALES OR FEMALES FOR SURE...but we
> need to find homes for the medium quality females and gelded males. The
> high end females and males seems to find their place in the current market
> place with no problem and are doing so at very high prices.
>
> The issue here is that if this industry is going to grow long term, that
> we need more new farms and ranches. If we don't address this issue, we
> could see a glut of alpacas at prices much lower than the current prices
> or sent to animal auctions for disposal or worse.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
>
>
> Jim Patrick
> Patricks' Pastures Alpaca Ranch & Habitat
> 3030 N. Trinity Rd.
> Denton, TX 76208
> 940-323-1011 (Ranch Office)
> 214-505-0754 (Jim Patrick's Mobile)
> patrickspastures@verizon.net
> www.patrickspastures.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: sldear2001
> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 8:10 PM
> Subject: [Alpacasite] The llama song
>
>
> I just listened to the song again.
> Still love it.
>
>
>
>
>
> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the
> person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no
> way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
> alpacas@alpacaweb.com
> http://aaalpacas.com
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 08:36:03 -0800
> From: "Wyatt Black" <wyattblack@earthlink.net>
> Subject: A very blessed Thanksgiving to you
>
> I am sorry I am late in sending this.
>
> This year our family has so much to be grateful for! A nice warm house to
> live in. Family members near whom we cherish. Alpacas in our lives for
> grace, beauty and joy. Good friends and neighbors. Our Father in heaven
> who we know loves us, and we love Him. Blessings that come our way every
> day that we aren't even aware of...
> I would be greatly remiss if I didn't thank all of you out there as well,
> for the love, compassion and support that you give me and my family every
> day.
> God bless you for your kindness, and prayers, and emails and love.
> You are cherished, and your value is of infinite worth to my family and I.
> Hoping you had a very blessed Thanksgiving, and thank you for being you.
> Love,
> The Black Family
> Rachelle, Wyatt, Cameron & Codi
> And all of our furry friends :)
>
>
>
> Wyatt & Rachelle Black
> Black Magic Alpaca Ranch
> Honesty, Integrity, Quality
> 6500 Digier Road
> P.O. Box 457
> Lebec, CA
> 93243
> http://www.blackmagicalpacaranch.com
> wyattblack@earthlink.net
> 661-248-6568
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the
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>
> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
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