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Monday, July 27, 2009

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Coccidiia [1 Attachment]

Are you serious? When the cria has an infection, antibiotics are indicated, and hopefully blood tests or other cultures would be done by a veterinarian to indicate which antibiotic or other med is required. If a cria has a failure of passive transfer of passive immunity, and does contract an infection of some kind, antibiotics are indicated. Even if a cria has a high IgG, it can still become infected with a pathogen. In which case, antibiotics are likely to be in order.

In case you are wondering, I did not, nor did anyone else as far as I know, claim that antibiotics should be use dot treat coccidia. Those infections are treated with SMZ-TMP, Albon, or Corid; or with Decox as a preventative.

Another paper I just read says that Naxcel is a good initial choice for crias. page 5.

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RE: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Coccidiia

 

Coccidia has nothing to do with passive transfer.   It is a parasite, plain an simple. A sulfer drug does the trick.  For a cria we use sulfatrim, cherry flavored and the crias respond.  We do immunize for e-coli at birth also.   This  vaccine is given within 6 hours of birth. We are in a dairy area that e-coli can be a problem.  The vaccine works for us.
   As for the other vaccinces, consult your vet.  Every area has different things to be conserned about.  What works on one farm, may not work for another.   As most answers, it depends.  If you feel that it is working for you and your vet recommends it, don't change. 
 
For antibotics, if you have a sick cria, you give antibotics.  Just as you would for any animal, including humans.  As for any antibotic, follow the directions.  Some antibotics do not respond to certain bacterias diseases;  consult your vet.  They will know the best choice of action.
 
Even when there is passive transfer, a cria can crash.  Friends of ours had a cria crash 6 hours after they pulled blood for an IGG.  The cria responded to plasma and antibotics.  The Igg came back as 3,000+.   We suspect it was e-coli.  They too vaccinate for e-coli now.  IGG's can be missleading.  A high number means nothing if a cria crashes.  
 
Just my opinion on everything.  Most of the time, follow common sense and your vets advise.
 
Peggy

Daniel and Peggy Emmerich
EnchantedMeadows Alpacas & Goats
9357 CTY RD O
Wausau WI 54401
715.675.0584
www.enchantedmeadows.com



 


To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
From: mam2@wi.rr.com
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 23:13:59 +0000
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Coccidiia

 
If the cria is getting the "passive immunity", antibiotics from the mother, under what circumstances do you find the need to inject antibiotics in a nursing cria?
Michael
--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@...> wrote:
>
> What is the source of your confusion?
>
> Heather
>
>
> On Jul 27, 2009, at 4:43 AM, Michael A. Morack wrote:
>
> > Heather-your answer confuses me and if you would elaborate it might
> > clear up my confusion. You stated that 'newborns' rely upon the
> > passive immunity from the colostrum and mothers milk and that I
> > agree but then you may give antibiotics. That appears to be a
> > contradiction. Perhaps I am not interpreting this correctly.
> >
> > Happy Alpaca-ing, Michael
> >
> > Michael and Margery A. Morack
> > Greenbriar Farm
> > Waukesha, WI
> > 262.970.9633 MAM2@...
>




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RE: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Coccidiia

 

            I am not a vet, nor remotely a medical professional, but I am quite sure that the passive immunity ANTIBODIES is totally different than treating a cria with ANTIBIOTICS.  If a cria has an infection, ie sepsis of any kind, antibiotics are definitely necessary.  Antibodies are the result of the mother’s immunity to disease through vaccination and/or exposure.  Babies obtain antibodies from the colostrum but it is not an indefinite protection, which is why vaccinations are necessary to protect the cria after a period of time. 

            We vaccinate our babies one month after birth for C,D and T and at three months for rabies.

 

Laura Roberts

R Half Pint Farm

Spotsylvania, VA 

540 895-5877


From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael A. Morack
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 7:14 PM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Coccidiia

 

 

If the cria is getting the "passive immunity", antibiotics from the mother, under what circumstances do you find the need to inject antibiotics in a nursing cria?
Michael
--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@...> wrote:
>
> What is the source of your confusion?
>
> Heather
>
>
> On Jul 27, 2009, at 4:43 AM, Michael A. Morack wrote:
>
> > Heather-your answer confuses me and if you would elaborate it might
> > clear up my confusion. You stated that 'newborns' rely upon the
> > passive immunity from the colostrum and mothers milk and that I
> > agree but then you may give antibiotics. That appears to be a
> > contradiction. Perhaps I am not interpreting this correctly.
> >
> > Happy Alpaca-ing, Michael
> >
> > Michael and Margery A. Morack
> > Greenbriar Farm
> > Waukesha, WI
> > 262.970.9633 MAM2@...
>

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[AlpacaTalk] Re: Coccidiia

 

If the cria is getting the "passive immunity", antibiotics from the mother, under what circumstances do you find the need to inject antibiotics in a nursing cria?
Michael
--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@...> wrote:
>
> What is the source of your confusion?
>
> Heather
>
>
> On Jul 27, 2009, at 4:43 AM, Michael A. Morack wrote:
>
> > Heather-your answer confuses me and if you would elaborate it might
> > clear up my confusion. You stated that 'newborns' rely upon the
> > passive immunity from the colostrum and mothers milk and that I
> > agree but then you may give antibiotics. That appears to be a
> > contradiction. Perhaps I am not interpreting this correctly.
> >
> > Happy Alpaca-ing, Michael
> >
> > Michael and Margery A. Morack
> > Greenbriar Farm
> > Waukesha, WI
> > 262.970.9633 MAM2@...
>

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Failure of Passive Transfer, [1 Attachment]

Ok, here is a study, I'm not sure if it's the one I was thinking of, but it does have some good and relevant info.


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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Failure of Passive Transfer,

 

I don't know of any alpaca breeders who milk their alpacas to collect colostrum. I would sort of be afraid to do that, simply because I do't want to rob the current cria of its colostrum intake!

I have a wall baby this year, who got caught between a gate and a wall. She was almost dry when I went out to check on her dam at 8:30am. But, she had bonded with the wall and refused to have anything to do with nursing from her mama. She does acknowledge her mama now, but still won't nurse from her. So anyway, I gave her bovine colostrum that I got in powdered form from the food store. It's widely available and Valley Vet has some pretty good choices and prices. 

I read a paper that said that bovine colostrum, while not providing as much protection to crias as alpaca colostrum, was more effective than goat or sheep colostrum. I can't find it right now but will post when I do locate it again.

Heather


On Jul 27, 2009, at 8:25 AM, AmyJoLabbe@aol.com wrote:


I am curious if any alpaca breeders are routinely collecting colostrum and freezing it? This is something we routinely did while breeding horses. You just never knew with this maidens how good the colostrum was. So we always collected from the proven dams/milkers and froze it. When a new baby was born we would defrost and dose all babies born to maiden dams. We never lost a single foal and never had to do plasma. 

We are thinking of freezing our goats colostrum. We have Nigerian does and they are really good milkers. 

Last year, our first year, we lost our first cria from passive transfer failure. 

This year we had a maiden with virtually no milk and it was nearly impossible to find colostrum. She ended up getting goat from TSC. Sadly all our does were dry and we could not help her out. I was wondering then....had I only frozen the year before!

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] shipping to Europe

 

I wish I had European countries knocking down my door to import my alpacas, but I have no knowledge of import/export restrictions. I hope someone else will have some info!


Do you know why there is a ban to the UK? Is it all livestock or just cattle (BSE)? Now that I think of it, I have a lot of questions!

Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon

On Jul 27, 2009, at 8:23 AM, Wendy Edwards wrote:


hi does anyone know if we can ship to Europe from Canada and the United States - i was reading there is a ban on importing into the UK, but am wondering about Europe - and if we can, what is the process?
Thanks
Wendy
DreamWeaver Apacas
BC

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Failure of Passive Transfer,

 


I am curious if any alpaca breeders are routinely collecting colostrum and freezing it? This is something we routinely did while breeding horses. You just never knew with this maidens how good the colostrum was. So we always collected from the proven dams/milkers and froze it. When a new baby was born we would defrost and dose all babies born to maiden dams. We never lost a single foal and never had to do plasma.

We are thinking of freezing our goats colostrum. We have Nigerian does and they are really good milkers.

Last year, our first year, we lost our first cria from passive transfer failure.

This year we had a maiden with virtually no milk and it was nearly impossible to find colostrum. She ended up getting goat from TSC. Sadly all our does were dry and we could not help her out. I was wondering then....had I only frozen the year before!



---- Original Message ----
From: Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, Jul 27, 2009 1:42 am
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Coccidiia

 
Yup, Rebecca, I had the same situation with my cria. She had to be rushed to OSU the day after she was born. Failure of Passive TRansfer, although I had seen her nurse a LOT the day she was born, just the day before. She stayed for 2 weeks at OSU, had 2 transfusions, many tube feedings, many blood tests, and Naxcel for 2 or 3 weeks. She is strong and healthy today, and would not have made it without the antibiotics, I'm pretty sure.

Although I prefer to be holisitc and "natural" as much as possible, I will not with-hold traditional meds if indicated. It's just not worth the risk of losing a life.

However, vaccines on newborns are not advised, and the earliest they should be dine is 3 months.

Heather


On Jul 26, 2009, at 10:29 PM, Rebecca Wells wrote:

Naxcel is an antibiotic, not a parasite treatment. And if it was 
harmful to crias, then my first cria would have died. No, it saved 
his life because he was born with a septic infection and had to 
receive a plasma transfer and be treated with antibiotics - Naxcel.

Vaccines are a different question.

Rebecca Wells
Alpacadero Alpacas
Seattle, WA

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[AlpacaTalk] shipping to Europe

 

hi does anyone know if we can ship to Europe from Canada and the United States - i was reading there is a ban on importing into the UK, but am wondering about Europe - and if we can, what is the process?
Thanks
Wendy
DreamWeaver Apacas
BC

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Coccidiia

 

What is the source of your confusion? 


Heather


On Jul 27, 2009, at 4:43 AM, Michael A. Morack wrote:

Heather-your answer confuses me and if you would elaborate it might clear up my confusion. You stated that 'newborns' rely upon the passive immunity from the colostrum and mothers milk and that I agree but then you may give antibiotics. That appears to be a contradiction. Perhaps I am not interpreting this correctly.

Happy Alpaca-ing, Michael

Michael and Margery A. Morack
Greenbriar Farm
Waukesha, WI
262.970.9633 MAM2@wi.rr.com

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[AlpacaTalk] Re: Coccidiia

 

Heather-your answer confuses me and if you would elaborate it might clear up my confusion. You stated that 'newborns' rely upon the passive immunity from the colostrum and mothers milk and that I agree but then you may give antibiotics. That appears to be a contradiction. Perhaps I am not interpreting this correctly.

Happy Alpaca-ing, Michael

Michael and Margery A. Morack
Greenbriar Farm
Waukesha, WI
262.970.9633 MAM2@wi.rr.com

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@...> wrote:
>
> PS> We NEVER give shots to newborns! Never! CT&T, 8-way, etc. are not
> a good idea for new babies. They still rely on the passive immunity
> from colostrum and mother's milk, so vaccines are not effective on
> newborns, and can overwhelm them.
>
> The only shots we would give to new babies would be antibiotics if
> necessary, or Bo-Se.
>
> Also, yes, Naxcel for the dam is absolutely ok at any time. :)
>
> Heather
>
>
>
> On Jul 24, 2009, at 11:14 AM, Heather Zeleny wrote:
>
> >
> > We treat coccidia with Albon, orally. This web page speaks about E
> > Mac specifically, and hopefully you don't have that! But we do use
> > Albon for "normal" coccidia. Corid can cause PEM, something you
> > really don't want to deal with as a consequence of medicating!
> > http://cascadealpacabreeders.com/index.php/Alpaca-Diseases/E-mac-or-
> > I-mac-Q-and-A.html
> > Oral sulfas (Country Animal Hospital recommends using the
> > injectable Albon 40% and give it by mouth at a rate of 1 cc per 30
> > lb body weight for 5-10 days) or Amprolium (We use Corid 9.6%
> > undiluted for ease of administration at 1 cc per 15 lb body weight
> > by mouthfor 5 to 10 days. If you treat over 5 days, also give
> > Vitamin B complex at 3 cc per 100 lb every day) are the most
> > established treatments.
> >
> >
> > I had a cria with failure of passive transfer a few years ago, and
> > she was treated with Naxcel for 2-3 weeks, by OSU. I have every
> > confidence in using Naxcel if necessary in newborns. I'd like more
> > info on why it is said not be recommended for young crias.
> >
> > We don't give CD&T, since we don't feed grain, and alpacas aren't
> > susceptible to Closridium types C and D. I do advise Tetanus
> > vaccinations, though.
> > http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-vth/camelids/vax.aspx
> >
> > Heather
> >
> >
> > On Jul 24, 2009, at 10:37 AM, wnunezcruz wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >> I have 3 females in the last 4 weeks of prenancy and they have
> >> coccidia. Can anyone tell me if it is safe to treat them and how
> >> much I should give them for the treatment? Also, what shots do you
> >> usually give for a new cria? My vet usually just gives a Covexin
> >> 8. Also, I know you can't give Naxcel to new cria's, but can you
> >> give it to the pregnant mom the last 4 weeks for ear infection?
> >> I'm trying to make sure I get it right. Sorry for all the
> >> questions. Thanks for any info.
> >>
> >> Wendy
> >> Humming B Alpacas
> >> www.hummingbalpacas.com
>

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