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Thursday, June 07, 2007

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: .....skirting and preparation of fibre :)

Hello Heidi,

I didn't skirt as they were being sheared (sorry if I gave that
impression). When they were sheared, the blanket fibre goes straight
into what we call a 'boot liner', that's a square sheet of plastic mesh
with handles at each corner, and they can be bought fairly cheaply from
somewhere like Roses (where you are). They are the liners that you put
in the trunk of your car!

With the blanket spread out on this (you need two people really at
shearing time to manage it), it is then rolled up from one corner until
about half way, then the sides folded in, and rolled up the rest of the
way. There you have it; it's simple but effective. All the leg and neck
fibre goes into ordinary bags, labelled of course!

Only when the shearer has finished and gone (and I have the time), do I
choose each one in turn from the pile of boot liners and roll it out
onto the sorting table. From there you can get to see it's proper shape
and discern where the edge of the blanket and the real blanket fibre
begins. Peel off the edge and without fear of loss, you will end up with
bags of a consistant quality of fibre, labelled appropriately so that
hand spinners can know exactly what they are getting. This ensures they
will not expect premium quality alpaca fibre of uniform lengths and
quality, and instead find different qualities and lengths of fibre in
the same bag. As a hand spinner, this can be very disappointing
especially if you have a particular project in mind that needs
consistency. It doesn't matter so much for felting, but for knitting,
or weaving soft shawls, blankets, etc., then it most certainly does.
And I do want my customers to want to come back to me for their fibre.

I label the skirtings of the blanket as just that, saying that it's
suitability is for handspinning, felting or dyeing and I make sure there
are lengths long enough to spin even if the quality is not the softest
parts, and I charge it at the same for adult alpaca (over 40 micron), as
I grade all my prices according to quality and appropriate purpose.

You will no doubt know from your own customers, the feedback you get
from them is important and will inform your own fibre preparations, with
future sales! in mind, and happy customers that want to come back to you.

Anyway, must get on ... more fleeces to prepare today. I'm about a
third of the way through, that's 5 down and 9 to go.

Have a great day with fibre, and good luck for shearing on Saturday.
Watch out for the rain. I don't know where you are but if the weather
is at all cold with the rain, then have an eye for the alpacas feeling
really cold. In England up north this year, apparently one breeder lost
two females to hypothermia because it rained after shearing, and the
whole herd had to be put under cover to warm them up!

Very Best Wishes
Amanda Poyner
Barton Alpacas
Somerset, England

Radched@aol.com wrote:

> Excellent ideas Amanda. We shear on Saturday (its supposed to rain!),
> and this is the second shearing for me. Last year I missed it, but
> took the boys down to be gelded so had them sheared then, and did the
> girls by hand. I am excited to try the "skirt as you go" this year.
> The first year I was pretty much saving every precious bit of fiber
> (except the poopy parts), but this year I hope to be a bit pickier.
> Skirting on the fly might not work because our shearer shears them
> standing, so it all happens pretty quickly, but I am going to be more
> brutal with my selection once its home. I find it hard to add that 15
> or 20 dollars that a "professional skirter" would add, but am more
> than willing to muddle through myself
>
> Heidi Christensen
> WingNut Farm Alpacas
> Graham WA
> (253) 846-2168 or (253) 592-0200
> www.wingnut-alpacas.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amanda Poyner <amanda@bartonalpacas.co.uk
> <mailto:amanda%40bartonalpacas.co.uk>>
> To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 2:05 pm
> Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: wow.....
>
> I'm with you Rachelle,
> Life is just too short. I am expecting 7 cria this year, but I said
> that last year and ended up with 3! The sneaky ladies had re-absorbed
> their pregnancies. So, We will see exactly how many we get when
> they're on the ground and healthy.
>
> I have been up to my elbows in wonderful fibre these last few days.
> I've spent hours and hours in a quiet barn, preparing my fleeces for
> showing and for sale. It's just the 4th shearing for us now, and I'm
> beginning to get it, about fibre.
>
> It's one of those things that gradually and over time, filters it's
> way into the fabric of your daily life. So this year I decided to show
> a couple of fleeces instead of animals, and for the first time really
> spent some time (a day to do two fleeces) pouring over unrolled
> blankets of fibre on the sorting table.
>
> First I skirted the edge of the blanket, shoulders and rump, skirting
> very carefully around the shoulders and rump, ending up with the shape
> of the absolutely prime blanket.
>
> With one fleece, I started skirting with the cut side down. It was
> easy enough being careful not to tear the fibres apart. On another
> fleece today, I did it the other way up, with the cut side up. It was
> so obvious where the true blanket fibre was and a dream to flip over
> the edge to that point and peel away the outer, courser fibres. Those
> will do for spinning up for weaving. Leaving lovely uniform and
> consistent fibre catching the light crimpily, all ready for the
> softest projects.
>
> Anyway, I ramble on and I'm supposed to be doing some editing on a
> spinning tuition booklet, but time is going on and I'm ready for bed.
>
> And to anyone who's still listening, remember that there's more in
> Heaven and on Earth to worry about :-)) Life is often brief.
>
> Best Wishes to all,
> Amanda Poyner
> Barton Alpacas
> Somerset, England
>
> __________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: wow.....skirting :)

Excellent ideas Amanda.  We shear on Saturday (its supposed to rain!), and this is the second shearing for me.  Last year I missed it, but took the boys down to be gelded so had them sheared then, and did the girls by hand.  I am excited to try the "skirt as you go" this year.  The first year I was pretty much saving every precious bit of fiber (except the poopy parts), but this year I hope to be a bit pickier.  Skirting on the fly might not work because our shearer shears them standing, so it all happens pretty quickly, but I am going to be more brutal with my selection once its home.  I find it hard to add that 15 or 20 dollars that a "professional skirter" would add, but am more than willing to muddle through myself

Heidi Christensen
WingNut Farm Alpacas
Graham WA
(253) 846-2168 or (253) 592-0200
www.wingnut-alpacas.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Amanda Poyner <amanda@bartonalpacas.co.uk>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 2:05 pm
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: wow.....

I'm with you Rachelle,
Life is just too short. I am expecting 7 cria this year, but I said
that last year and ended up with 3! The sneaky ladies had re-absorbed
their pregnancies. So, We will see exactly how many we get when
they're on the ground and healthy.

I have been up to my elbows in wonderful fibre these last few days.
I've spent hours and hours in a quiet barn, preparing my fleeces for
showing and for sale. It's just the 4th shearing for us now, and I'm
beginning to get it, about fibre.

It's one of those things that gradually and over time, filters it's
way into the fabric of your daily life. So this year I decided to show
a couple of fleeces instead of animals, and for the first time really
spent some time (a day to do two fleeces) pouring over unrolled
blankets of fibre on the sorting table.

First I skirted the edge of the blanket, shoulders and rump, skirting
very carefully around the shoulders and rump, ending up with the shape
of the absolutely prime blanket.

With one fleece, I started skirting with the cut side down. It was
easy enough being careful not to tear the fibres apart. On another
fleece today, I did it the other way up, with the cut side up. It was
so obvious where the true blanket fibre was and a dream to flip over
the edge to that point and peel away the outer, courser fibres. Those
will do for spinning up for weaving. Leaving lovely uniform and
consistent fibre catching the light crimpily, all ready for the
softest projects.

Anyway, I ramble on and I'm supposed to be doing some editing on a
spinning tuition booklet, but time is going on and I'm ready for bed.

And to anyone who's still listening, remember that there's more in
Heaven and on Earth to worry about :-)) Life is often brief.

Best Wishes to all,
Amanda Poyner
Barton Alpacas
Somerset, England

__________________________________________________________
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[AlpacaTalk] Re: wow.....

I'm with you Rachelle,
Life is just too short. I am expecting 7 cria this year, but I said
that last year and ended up with 3! The sneaky ladies had re-absorbed
their pregnancies. So, We will see exactly how many we get when
they're on the ground and healthy.

I have been up to my elbows in wonderful fibre these last few days.
I've spent hours and hours in a quiet barn, preparing my fleeces for
showing and for sale. It's just the 4th shearing for us now, and I'm
beginning to get it, about fibre.

It's one of those things that gradually and over time, filters it's
way into the fabric of your daily life. So this year I decided to show
a couple of fleeces instead of animals, and for the first time really
spent some time (a day to do two fleeces) pouring over unrolled
blankets of fibre on the sorting table.

First I skirted the edge of the blanket, shoulders and rump, skirting
very carefully around the shoulders and rump, ending up with the shape
of the absolutely prime blanket.

With one fleece, I started skirting with the cut side down. It was
easy enough being careful not to tear the fibres apart. On another
fleece today, I did it the other way up, with the cut side up. It was
so obvious where the true blanket fibre was and a dream to flip over
the edge to that point and peel away the outer, courser fibres. Those
will do for spinning up for weaving. Leaving lovely uniform and
consistent fibre catching the light crimpily, all ready for the
softest projects.

Anyway, I ramble on and I'm supposed to be doing some editing on a
spinning tuition booklet, but time is going on and I'm ready for bed.

And to anyone who's still listening, remember that there's more in
Heaven and on Earth to worry about :-)) Life is often brief.

Best Wishes to all,
Amanda Poyner
Barton Alpacas
Somerset, England

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] wow.....

Hi Rachelle,

There has been one thread only that had anything to do
with the topic of bannings and/or non posting of
messages. There have been many people who have shared
the same experiences, as you may have read, thus
giving merit to the thread! If people want to discuss
such things, they (we) have that right and not be
hushed with comments like yours! Wasn't that the point
of the entire topic in the first place???

I do not think that topics like these need to go on
forever. We all get the point. But, I have noticed
certain people rephrasing words and making assumptions
that were not originally posted that way. This should
stop, so these topics dont drag on and on with endless
rebuttles.

There are topics on every thread of every forum that I
choose not to bother with when it has been beaten to
death already. Everyone has the choice to delete the
email or not even read it if they don't like the
topic.

Thanks for asking about cria! We have 15 more due this
year. We have already had two born.

Have a nice weekend!

Stephanie

--- Wyatt Black <wyattblack@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Wow.... is this what this site has degenerated into?
> He did this, she did that, it's not fair, boo-hoo??

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] wow.....

Thanks for your comments, Rachelle,

However, this forum is for anything regarding the alpaca community or
industry. I am not about to start telling people what they can and
cannot talk about in regards to that. Then this discussion group will
become just like the other ones. What purpose will that serve?

What people do is fair game to be spoken about. Frankly, that
information helps others to make decisions who they want to do business
with, as so many people have pointed out. I try to make sure that I
have no problem with anything I do or say being made public. Can
everyone, even the moderators of those other groups, say that? Can they
stand to have their actions and decisions scrutinized in public? I make
sure everything I do stands up to the light of day. One moderator of a
discussion group banned me from his group for a private email I sent to
him after he made a sarcastic comment on this group. I did not
retaliate in kind, though he unsubscribed on his own accord, then
re-subscribed some time later. And I approved it.

Heather

Heather Zeleny
West Wind Alpacas
Eugene, OR

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
Home of Avatar's West Wind Scirocco, El Bello's Padré, Pluro grandson
Sienna Illusion, and true black full Bolivian Cosby of Chelsea Farms!
http://www.westwindalpacas.com/
http://www.alpacanation.com/westwind.asp
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join

On Jun 7, 2007, at 7:20 AM, Wyatt Black wrote:

> Wow.... is this what this site has degenerated into? He did this, she
> did that, it's not fair, boo-hoo??

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[AlpacaTalk] wow.....

Wow.... is this what this site has degenerated into? He did this, she did that, it's not fair, boo-hoo??

Perhaps this is harsh, but I thought this was a forum for discussion about alpacas, not how terrible all the other forums are and that their moderators are all against you, and that the 'big farms' are all sunshine and light and sweep everything bad under the rug?

I know this sounds rude, but right now I don't have time for another site that will serve but one purpose- to talk about how great they are and bash others.
Been there done that.

Let's get over it and move on to alpaca discussions, okay?

Here's one: how many crias are you all expecting this year? :))
Slainte~
Rachelle

Black Magic Alpaca Ranch
Honesty, Integrity, Quality
Wyatt & Rachelle Black
P.O. Box 457
6500 Digier Road
Lebec, CA
93243
(661-248-6568)
http://www.blackmagicalpacaranch.com
wyattblack@earthlink.net
http://pasturemusings.blogspot.com

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Other alpaca discussion groups

Hi Allison,
Coming from a "corporate environment" I am accustomed to the "them" vs. "us" line of thinking. I could never completely understand or embrace the concept, but it is definitely prevalent.

To add to your excellent observations and commentary, I think there is a need for both "large" and "small" farms in our industry.....sort of a symbiotic relationship.

I have often wondered how "large/big farms", as referred to or implied within the context of the original email, are defined.....by actual size of herd, perceived/actual influence, numbers of animals shown, years in the business....????

Dianna

Dianna & Jack Jordan
Alpacas of Somerset Farm
www.alpacasomersetfarm.com
www.alpacanation.com/farmsandbreeders/03_viewfarm.asp?name=13815
530-620-6033

----- Original Message -----
From: Allison Moss-Fritch
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 12:40 AM
Subject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Other alpaca discussion groups

Hi Heather,

As you know, I'm censored from time to time at Alpacasite mostly because I
don't cotton to Rick's politics and won't clam up to please him. We are
very different folks, he and I.

On the big farms wanting to muzzle the rest of us.remember that power is in
the eye of the beholder. If upon viewing the general's insignia you mistake
him for a door man, he won't be doing much to order you around. It is like
that with all power. To remove power from a person, merely refuse to
recognize that they have it and they lose it because you won't defer to
them.

So if you have integrity and are strong, taking the flack when it is
necessary, and speaking out responsibly, then you have nothing to fear.
When the smaller farms stand firm and speak their mind.others will join
them. Courage builds in a crowd. After all, what can a large farm do to
you.refuse to buy your animals.they only buy from each other in the first
place. Can they refuse to compete? I guess so, but that merely leaves the
field clear for those of us who will continue to compete. Can they try to
stack the elections? They already do, but it does not work if you refuse to
be scared. In reality there are more little farms than big ones, so the
majority vote is ours if they don't intimidate us. If they refuse to sell
to us, pretty soon their sales, not ours, dry up. The greatest thing we
have to fear is our own tendency to quiver.not anything from reality.

In the end, it is the small farms as a group who outweigh the few large
farms.when they stick together. And, as you fairly say, it is not all
large farms nor every large breeder.just a few who choose to try to
manipulate. Open discussion among the rest of us and dialog with the larger
farms which have integrity is the way to nip that sort of attempt to build a
monarchy. The truth is that all of us, large and small, survive better in
an open press than a managed one. We all learn from the dialog we have with
one another and we all thrive better when we help each other survive. If we
detract from one another, it is the reputation of the industry as a whole
that is disparaged, not just an individual breeder.

Allison E. Moss-Fritch

New Moon Alpacas

Santa Clara, CA

408/248-3581

http://www.newmoonalpacas.com

From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Heather Zeleny
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 4:45 PM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Other alpaca discussion groups

Actually, when we started in this business 10 years ago, we were told
by a large breeder that we shouldn't talk about any health problems we
encountered. When we started losing animals to liver flukes, BECAUSE no
one would talk about problems, even the vets had no idea what could be
done to save those that were sick but not yet dead. So maybe the term
"big farm" might have been a generalisation, but it was the large farms
in the Northwest who effectively gagged any plea for help, any
discussion of what do if this or that happens on your farm....

There are a few who get their noses all out of joint when someone
brings up the large farm/small farm issue. Guess what, big farms have a
lot more power in this industry, just as any large company has more
power than a small one. That is the truth and pretending that it is
not, is either naive or in denial. yes, hopefully all the large farms
are now forthright in the truth about the business and animal heath and
care, but that was not always true.

Heather

Heather Zeleny
West Wind Alpacas
Eugene, OR

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
Home of Avatar's West Wind Scirocco, El Bello's Padré, Pluro grandson
Sienna Illusion, and true black full Bolivian Cosby of Chelsea Farms!
http://www.westwindalpacas.com/
http://www.alpacanation.com/westwind.asp
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join

On Jun 6, 2007, at 2:41 PM, Shouvlins wrote:

> Wow Sheri,
>
> That seems a bit unfair and why would only big farms take this
> approach. Everyone in the breeding business wants to sell alpacas, no
> matter what their size. It seems a bit unfair to claim that only big
> farms deceive folks. Frankly I haven't found that to be true, although
> there has been one farm I know of like that, but I attribute that to
> the individual, not the size of the farm. I know of small breeders who
> cheat too. It ain't a size thing, it's an individual character thing.
>
> Laurel

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Other alpaca discussion groups

Hi Allison,
Very nicely stated and, in my opinion, right on track.
Dianna

Dianna & Jack Jordan
Alpacas of Somerset Farm
www.alpacasomersetfarm.com
www.alpacanation.com/farmsandbreeders/03_viewfarm.asp?name=13815
530-620-6033

----- Original Message -----
From: Allison Moss-Fritch
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 12:47 AM
Subject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Other alpaca discussion groups

Hi Sherri,

I agree with you. Selling something requires a certain degree of
truthfulness as you can make a customer into a return customer through
honesty, but once you fib, you lose them.and anyone they might ever have
referred, forever. Likewise, if someone who is not prepared goes naively
into this business without proper understanding and support.they don't
become future customers.but they will become your future enemy.

Of course, if anyone is foolish enough to believe that these animals are all
born flawless and continue until their dying breath without health or other
issues.then suddenly drop dead at year 25, you are dealing with a person who
does not have enough sense to be in business in the first place. I have no
desire to recruit someone who has no idea how to care for an animal into
this business. If they hurt an animal I've taken the time to nurture, I'd
never forgive myself.and if they fail and sell their herd at a loss, it
devalues my bloodlines if they bought from me. In the end, you have to
choose your customers as carefully as any other business partner.even though
they eventually become your competitors, if you do it properly, they can be
friendly, responsible, and fair competitors.

Really, since there are neither perfect animals, nor perfect breeders, the
real challenge is to use your skills to produce the best stock you know
how.and then I'd like to buy from you! If I learn and become as skilled in
my own way, then you want to buy my animals as well..again, If we help each
other learn, breed and succeed.the industry as well as each of us, can
thrive.

Best Regards,

Allison

From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Sheri Hewitt
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 6:13 PM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Other alpaca discussion groups

What I was saying was the there are a lot of
farms (large and small but all on the same note)
who don't want anyone to talk about anything that
is controversial or might cause a new buyer to
pause. By taking this tack it means that the new
buyer won't find out until it's too late what really happens.

Personally, I think discussion is good for all of
us. If we lose a sale or two because someone is
turned away because alpacas might be a lot of
work, and might have health problems, then it's
better they did something else. And, those who go
ahead, knowing what can happen, will do much better in the long run.

Good, healthy discussion of all subjects will benefit all of us in the end.

No evil conspiracy theories or thoughts against those who are "the big
guys".

Sheri
Experience Alpacas!
Woodland Meadows, LLC
31542 Camas Swale Rd.
Creswell, OR 97426
www.woodlandmeadows.com
541-895-0964 or cell 541-912-0081

At 03:53 PM 6/6/2007, you wrote:

>Actually, when we started in this business 10 years ago, we were told
>by a large breeder that we shouldn't talk about any health problems we
>encountered. When we started losing animals to liver flukes, BECAUSE no
>one would talk about problems, even the vets had no idea what could be
>done to save those that were sick but not yet dead. So maybe the term
>"big farm" might have been a generalisation, but it was the large farms
>in the Northwest who effectively gagged any plea for help, any
>discussion of what do if this or that happens on your farm....
>
>There are a few who get their noses all out of joint when someone
>brings up the large farm/small farm issue. Guess what, big farms have a
>lot more power in this industry, just as any large company has more
>power than a small one. That is the truth and pretending that it is
>not, is either naive or in denial. yes, hopefully all the large farms
>are now forthright in the truth about the business and animal heath and
>care, but that was not always true.
>
>Heather
>
>Heather Zeleny
>West Wind Alpacas
>Eugene, OR
>
>Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
>Home of Avatar's West Wind Scirocco, El Bello's Padré, Pluro grandson
>Sienna Illusion, and true black full Bolivian Cosby of Chelsea Farms!
><http://www.westwindalpacas.com/>http://www.westwindalpacas.com/
>http://www.alpacanation.com/westwind.asp
><http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join>http://tech.groups.yaho
o.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join
>
>On Jun 6, 2007, at 2:41 PM, Shouvlins wrote:
>
> > Wow Sheri,
> >
> > That seems a bit unfair and why would only big farms take this
> > approach. Everyone in the breeding business wants to sell alpacas, no
> > matter what their size. It seems a bit unfair to claim that only big
> > farms deceive folks. Frankly I haven't found that to be true, although
> > there has been one farm I know of like that, but I attribute that to
> > the individual, not the size of the farm. I know of small breeders who
> > cheat too. It ain't a size thing, it's an individual character thing.
> >
> > Laurel
>
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>
>

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