One certainly has to go with what's available. I suspect not many vets can use their hands during transrectal ultrasound. My response was simply to state that hands can and are used for the procedure, perhaps not wide spread, but it is done nonetheless. When I told a friend that's a small animal vet and an alpaca owner, about using a hand for transrectal ultrasounds, he was shocked and adamant that no vet would ever do that to one of his alpacas. So yes, I know that some think this is unwise and some think it's not even possible........but it is.
Elden Harms
Token Creek Alpacas
Sun Prairie WI
-----Original Message-----
From: Patty Mattingly <patmar@erols.
com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, Nov 29, 2009 3:55 pm
Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: [AlpacaTalk] transrectal ultrasound
Elden,
My vet and Dr. LaRue Johnson use a probe for transrectal ultrasounds. I do think small hands are an asset for dystosias, but there are so many other things I value about my vet over small hands.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 4:11 PM
Subject: [SPAM]Re: [AlpacaTalk] transrectal ultrasound
Laurel,
An experienced vet with lots of lube and small hands are a definite asset. No probe is used during the transrectal ultrasound. Think of how your hand would be held if going into a cookie jar with a small opening, all fingers pointed forward and clustered together with the thumb underneath. The ultrasound head is then held by the thumb and the cluster of fingers. With a small hand and an experienced touch, learned via many such procedures on cattle and horses (think many hundreds if not thousands), the operator can be very accurate and safe, probably safer than with a probe. After around 30 days gestation, pregnancy can be determined simply via transrectal palpation, no ultrasound needed at all.
Elden Harms
Token Creek Alpacas
Sun Prairie WI
Someone wrote that the vet needs to have small hands. This is untrue. The vaginal/cervical exam is done with a speculum. No hands are placed in the alpaca. The ultrasound is done with the probe inserted in the rectum. The probe is actually a human prostate probe, long and thin, again, no hands.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bluebird Hills Farm <bluebirdhills@
voyager.net>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, Nov 29, 2009 12:29 pm
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] fertility questions
Hi Maegan,
Actually that method of breeding every 3 days is no longer considered appropriate, for doing so can cause damage to the cervix and uterine infections. The current strategy is to bring the female and male together daily until the female drops. If a good breeding occurs, then bring the two together again in one week and continue to do so on a weekly basis until the pregnancy is confirmed, preferrably by ultrasound after 30 or whatever days your vet feels comfortable with.
Maidens of course are the toughest for they sometimes won't go down at all. In that case, I will try for 2 weeks and if she is not receptive, then it may be time to have the vet out to evaluate reproductive maturity.
Someone wrote that the vet needs to have small hands. This is untrue. The vaginal/cervical exam is done with a speculum. No hands are placed in the alpaca. The ultrasound is done with the probe inserted in the rectum. The probe is actually a human prostate probe, long and thin, again, no hands.
Take care!
Laurel
>
>
> Heather;
>
>
>
> The schedule at which you had bred your female is interesting. Normally
> they are supposed to be bred every 3 days until spit off is reached for
> the 3rd time. Should this not happen, she would need to be looked at by a
> vet to ensure you don't have any issues. The vets recommend this due to
> hormone levels and the ability to settle easier. I don't know of a vet
> who doesn't think this has been good pratice with breeding in the
> industry. I have taken some of Dr. Tibary's classes and have met the
> wonderful man in person several times. I would not be surprised if he also
> brings this up to you should you send him this schedule you had your
> female. Either way, I am sure he would be interested in hearing about your
> female and I am sure he will look into answers for you if he doesn't
> already have them. I had heard he was going to be leaving WSU, but am not
> sure when. Hope you are still able to contact him.
>
>
>
> Maegan
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
From: "Heather Zeleny" <alpacatalk@gmail.
com>
> To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 9:16:55 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] fertility questions
>
> Â
>
>
>
>
> Hi Allison,
> This girl arrived at our farm in January 2008. I waited until spring to
> breed her. This is her breeding schedule.
>
> May 31, 2008 bred
> June 23, 2008 bred
> June 27, 2008 spit
> July 2, 2008 spit
> July 5, 2008, during spit testing another girl, she kushed, so we brought
> her intended back and they bred.
> July 12, 2008 spit
> July 26, 2008 spit
> August 12, 2008 spit
> October 9, 2008 aborted twins 96 days gestation
>
>
> October 26, 2008 bred to a different sire
> no spit testing.
> January 15, 2009, aborted twins 82 days gestation
>
>
> May 30, 2009 bred to my grey boy
> June 1, 2009 spit
> June 8, 2009 spit
> June 11, 2009 spit
> June 27, 2009 spit
> July 2, 2009 spit
> July 31, 2009 bred after resorption some time after July 2, 2009
> August 12, 2009 spit
> October 2, 2009 spit
> October 8, spit
> October 19, 2009 aborted twins 80 days gestation
>
>
>
>
> After the first abortion, I chalked it up to the fact that twins often
> abort in the first trimester. After the second time, I did inform the
> previous owner, and I did mention it to our vet, who thought those were
> strange odds but didn't offer any medical explanation. Now, after the
> third time, I will have a reproductive exam done, but the past month has
> been very busy so I haven't scheduled it yet.. I hope our local vet will
> be able to do it rather than having to take her to OSU.
>
>
> And, I did inform the previous owner of the third time, at which point he
> asked if I had had an exam done, which I have not, at this point.Â
>
>
> However, whether they find anything wrong or not, she has not produced a
> live cria for me, and I selected her for her bloodlines and color.Â
>
> Heather
>
>
> Heather Zeleny
> White Lotus Alpacas
> Oregon
>
>
> Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
> http://www.whitelotusalpacas.com
> http://whitelotus.openherd.com
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