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Thursday, November 20, 2008

[AlpacaTalk] Re: spots

As you can see from the other replies, most of it is personal
preference. The only time it is a breeding issue is "white spot"--
when alpacas that both have the white spot gene are bred together you
are likely to get a blue-eyed, usually deaf, white. This occurs
primarily with greys bred to (i) colors that have white at their
extremities or (ii) whites. There are all sorts of theories behind it-
-you can search the archives for "white spot" here and on alpacasite
and will find out tons.

Cheers,
Morgen Bowers
Dreamwood Farm, NY

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Wendy Edwards"
<wendy.edwards@...> wrote:
>
> hi - what is the issue about spots on an alpaca? Heather mentioned
it and aroused my curiosity - one of my favourite girls has spots -
she's beautiful and i can card four different colors from her: black,
silver gray, rose gray and steel gray. Everyone who sees her picks
her out of the herd and comments on how pretty she is
>
> is this spot thing a trend? Or is there a real breeding problem? I
am breeding her this spring to our solid color, full Bolivian male,
mainly because of his bloodlines, not his color.
> Wendy
> DreamWeaver Alpacas
> BC
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Sent to Alpaca site...held, not posted by site...

Richard,

a cursory look at the US marino sheep world will show you a large
group of very successful individual  sheep ranches that each have
found their own niche. While on a wholesale level wool is nearly
worthless these ranchers sell their product at a profitable price and
they sell it before shearing day. One such ranch is just down the road
from me.

The current US alpaca market has been built on a breeders model 
as there weren't enough alpacas to supply any level of "fleece market".
We are in the process of transitioning to multiple levels and
models.  This is simply reality.

My question to you at this point is are you here to help or are you
simply interested in nay saying?  There are successful models to
follow. Thus far many alpaca breeders have simply been waiting for
someone else to make it happen.  It's time to do it for ourselves.

Blue Skies

Jennifer Powers

Aero Ranch Suri Alpacas

--- On Thu, 11/20/08, suekodu <humhojl120@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: suekodu <humhojl120@hotmail.com>
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Sent to Alpaca site...held, not posted by site...
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 20, 2008, 11:49 AM



--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com, Jennifer J Powers <jpowers@... >

wrote:

>

> Richard,

> my point and what Blue Sky Yarns supports in my point is that the

cottage industry will support a profitable price point. We need to

build our own individual niches. And or support those working to

carve out such a niche. Stop looking to a large scale wholesale

outlet. Something that has proven time after time to be unsuccessful.

>

> Blue Skies

> Jennifer Powers

> Aero Ranch Suri Alpacas

> Browns Valley CA

What modern Western agricultural industry requires every farmer to

find their own niche/cottage outlets, because there isn't a viable

wholesale market?

And if there were such a huge cottage industry demand, how come it

doesn't command a sufficient price for the yarn (let alone the raw

fleece) to make keeping alpacas profitable?

Blue Sky Yarns aren't supporting US alpaca fiber, at a profitable

price point or otherwise, since they source from South America. There

is plenty of world supply of alpaca fiber for home craft outlets, but

it's largely from countries where alpaca keepers are living in

extreme poverty, reportedly on something like $345 to $800 per year –

the asking price for a single gelding in the US.

The figures I gave earlier show that the income, after processing

costs, for US producers selling alpaca yarn to local outlets gives

an insufficient return (I estimated $120/head ) to cover the cost of

keeping the alpacas.

It's not just me - in July 2008 a producer on AlpacaSite reported

that through arranging processing and retailing and selling yarn at

$6oz ($96/lb) he only achieves $50 to $150 per animal after direct

fiber-related expenses, insufficient to cover annual husbandry

expenses.

Another example on the NAAFP website suggests about $160/head

returns after processing (at the 10 to 15 alpaca level averaged over

2 years). Again that would be insufficient to cover animal expenses.

Richard

Maidstone Kent

UK










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[AlpacaTalk] Re: Sent to Alpaca site...held, not posted by site...

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer J Powers <jpowers@...>
wrote:
>
> Richard,
> my point and what Blue Sky Yarns supports in my point is that the
cottage industry will support a profitable price point. We need to
build our own individual niches. And or support those working to
carve out such a niche. Stop looking to a large scale wholesale
outlet. Something that has proven time after time to be unsuccessful.
>
> Blue Skies
> Jennifer Powers
> Aero Ranch Suri Alpacas
> Browns Valley CA

What modern Western agricultural industry requires every farmer to
find their own niche/cottage outlets, because there isn't a viable
wholesale market?

And if there were such a huge cottage industry demand, how come it
doesn't command a sufficient price for the yarn (let alone the raw
fleece) to make keeping alpacas profitable?

Blue Sky Yarns aren't supporting US alpaca fiber, at a profitable
price point or otherwise, since they source from South America. There
is plenty of world supply of alpaca fiber for home craft outlets, but
it's largely from countries where alpaca keepers are living in
extreme poverty, reportedly on something like $345 to $800 per year –
the asking price for a single gelding in the US.

The figures I gave earlier show that the income, after processing
costs, for US producers selling alpaca yarn to local outlets gives
an insufficient return (I estimated $120/head ) to cover the cost of
keeping the alpacas.

It's not just me - in July 2008 a producer on AlpacaSite reported
that through arranging processing and retailing and selling yarn at
$6oz ($96/lb) he only achieves $50 to $150 per animal after direct
fiber-related expenses, insufficient to cover annual husbandry
expenses.

Another example on the NAAFP website suggests about $160/head
returns after processing (at the 10 to 15 alpaca level averaged over
2 years). Again that would be insufficient to cover animal expenses.

Richard
Maidstone Kent
UK

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: spots

:)

post = spot in dyslexia-land

On Nov 20, 2008, at 11:02 AM, Heather Zeleny wrote:

> I have to disagree on that. Usually when you breed a white spot or
> pinto to another, you get a solid color! That's what the pinto
> afficionados say, anyway! The problem in my opinion, is when you breed
> a grey to a white post or white. Then you have a 25% chance of getting
> a BEW.
>
> I don't always agree with the self proclaimed experts on the color
> genetics. Like, I don't believe that black is recessive. I don't
> believe that white is dominant. I have a black girl who throws nothing
> but black, even bred to only whites and fawns, and always a different
> sire. I regularly see white crias coming from two colored animals with
> no white spots. We've had it happen more than once. If white were
> dominant, that would not be possible.
>
> Just my opinion, and over 10 years of observation. :)
>
> Heather

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: spots

I have to disagree on that. Usually when you breed a white spot or
pinto to another, you get a solid color! That's what the pinto
afficionados say, anyway! The problem in my opinion, is when you breed
a grey to a white post or white. Then you have a 25% chance of getting
a BEW.

I don't always agree with the self proclaimed experts on the color
genetics. Like, I don't believe that black is recessive. I don't
believe that white is dominant. I have a black girl who throws nothing
but black, even bred to only whites and fawns, and always a different
sire. I regularly see white crias coming from two colored animals with
no white spots. We've had it happen more than once. If white were
dominant, that would not be possible.

Just my opinion, and over 10 years of observation. :)

Heather

On Nov 20, 2008, at 10:53 AM, gogolfarm wrote:

> This subject has been on AlpacaNation form several times. The problem
> with white spots is that when you breed two animals that have a white
> spot the chances of creating a Blue Eyed White/BEW is at its greatest
> odds.Putting it in a nut shell.
> Tom

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[AlpacaTalk] Re: spots

This subject has been on AlpacaNation form several times. The problem
with white spots is that when you breed two animals that have a white
spot the chances of creating a Blue Eyed White/BEW is at its greatest
odds.Putting it in a nut shell.
Tom

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Wendy Edwards"
<wendy.edwards@...> wrote:
>
> i also have a dark rose gray / silver gray male who's spots card
into the most amazing colors - but i didn't realize a judge could
penalize for spots on the blanket - it's hard keeping up with
what's "in" and what isn't - and it feels like there's some
subjectivity involved -
> Wendy
> DreamWeaver Alpacas
> BC
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Heather Zeleny
> To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] spots
>
>
> Hi Wendy,
> After much discussion and disparaging of spots on alpacas, it was
> determined to be a non-issue. There was a "wandering spot"
theory,
> which some, like Safley and Ian Watt claimed that if you have a
spot on
> an extremity (head or feet) it could turn up in the blanket, and
> increase the chance of the dreaded "color contamination."
>
> With greys, there is much more latitude, but it is still
preferred that
> the grey be a uniform color or shade, with no spots of solids or
> different shades or values or what have you. I don't see what the
> problem is, I have a rose grey boy with solid maroon starting
halfway
> down his blanket, and he has spots of fawn, brown, white, and
maroon in
> his blanket. I used to call him a "Dark Rose Grey Fancy Pinto
> Appaloosa." During processing, that colors are all blended and
> depending on the amount of blending, you will get a uniform
blended
> heathered yarn, or with less blending, you'd get a nice tweedy
yarn.
>
> So what's the problem? In the end, it was just a way to make some
> otherwise very nice animals worth less than the ones owned
by "the ones
> who make the rules." Or so it seemed. It is prohibited to
penalize for
> spots that do not occur in the blanket, and for greys they aren't
> judged on uniformity of color, so that shouldn't be penalized,
either.
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Zeleny
> White Lotus Alpacas
> Creswell, OR
>
> 541.895.0964
>
> Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
> http://www.whitelotusalpacas.com
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join
>
> On Nov 19, 2008, at 7:24 AM, Wendy Edwards wrote:
>
> > hi - what is the issue about spots on an alpaca? Heather
mentioned it
> > and aroused my curiosity - one of my favourite girls has spots -
she's
> > beautiful and i can card four different colors from her: black,
silver
> > gray, rose gray and steel gray. Everyone who sees her picks her
out of
> > the herd and comments on how pretty she is
> >
> > is this spot thing a trend? Or is there a real breeding
problem? I am
> > breeding her this spring to our solid color, full Bolivian
male,
> > mainly because of his bloodlines, not his color.
> > Wendy
> > DreamWeaver Alpacas
> > BC
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Let them eat cake.

This is absolutely true. I think they should choose more than two
locations to hold nationals. One year in Cleveland, then in Las Vegas,
then in Atlanta, then in Portland Or, then in Omaha.... make it
accessible to all people from all regions on a rotating schedule.

Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Creswell, OR

541.895.0964

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
http://www.whitelotusalpacas.com
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join

On Nov 20, 2008, at 10:27 AM, Robert, Jacki (GE Healthcare) wrote:

> I know one thing for sure. There is NO WHERE that would be convenient
> for everyone. There is no easy answer to this problem.
>
> Jacki Robert
> Alpaca Creek Farm
> 1745 Saundersville Road, Hendersonville, TN 37075
> Office - 615.826.9380
> Cell - 615.828.6419
> www.AlpacaCreekFarm.com <http://www.alpacacreekfarm.com/>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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RE: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Let them eat cake.

I know one thing for sure. There is NO WHERE that would be convenient
for everyone. There is no easy answer to this problem.

Jacki Robert
Alpaca Creek Farm
1745 Saundersville Road, Hendersonville, TN 37075
Office - 615.826.9380
Cell - 615.828.6419
www.AlpacaCreekFarm.com <http://www.alpacacreekfarm.com/>


________________________________

From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Vida Palmer
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 12:11 PM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Let them eat cake.

Try driving it from South Misissippi.. Pretty much impossible!!

Vida Palmer
Kuska Paku Fram
Moss Point, MS

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
, Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@...>
wrote:
>
> I have some insight as to why they couldn't sell out Utah. It's out
of
> the way for EVERYBODY. Nationals, held in Louisville or Cleveland
is
> convenient for a large portion of the east and midwest, and
certainly
> those who live in Litchfield won't even have to stay in a hotel for
the
> show. How convenient is that!
>
> Salt Lake City is not a bad drive for those in the Southwest and
> California, but if you live anywhere else, it's a nightmare. 13
hour
> drive over mountain passes from Eugene. Actually from Phoenix, it's
an
> 11 hour drive. Also a bit much.
>
>
> On Nov 20, 2008, at 6:38 AM, libby@... wrote:
>
> > Dear Vida,
> >
> > I sure will. Was not aware of that or I obviously wouldn't have
posted
> > it. I'd rather see fewer stalls per farm and more farms
participating.
> > However, AOBA has to pay the bills so perhaps it was lifted
because
> > AOBA
> > didn't sell out at Utah? I'll have to let someone else answer.
It's a
> > delicate balance but if sold out, I'd like to see more farms be
able
> > to
> > participate.
> >
> > However, this IS one for Jess and Ian and Dave and the rest:
What
> > about
> > the new policy being proposed that requires farms to qualify
their
> > alpacas
> > at regional shows before they are allowed to show at AOBA???? Do
you
> > see
> > this as discouraging participation? I sure do.
> >
> > Libby
> >
> > Libby Forstner
> > Magical Farms, Inc.
> > Litchfield Ohio
> > (330)667-3233
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Let them eat cake.

Hang on! :-)

Year after year we drive from California to KY and now this year it
will be OH. Occasionally we get a reprieve of only having to drive 12
hours to the event.

That said every year we have attended Nationals we have sold at least
one animal or the equivalent in breedings. So do it we will/must.

Bluest Skies

Jennifer Powers

Aero Ranch Suri Alpacas

Browns Valley, CA

--- On Thu, 11/20/08, Vida Palmer <kuskapaku@earthlink.net> wrote:
From: Vida Palmer <kuskapaku@earthlink.net>
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Let them eat cake.
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 20, 2008, 10:10 AM

Try driving it from South Misissippi.. Pretty much impossible!!

Vida Palmer

Kuska Paku Fram

Moss Point, MS

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com, Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@ ...>

wrote:

>

> I have some insight as to why they couldn't sell out Utah. It's out

of

> the way for EVERYBODY. Nationals, held in Louisville or Cleveland

is

> convenient for a large portion of the east and midwest, and

certainly

> those who live in Litchfield won't even have to stay in a hotel for

the

> show. How convenient is that!

>

> Salt Lake City is not a bad drive for those in the Southwest and

> California, but if you live anywhere else, it's a nightmare. 13

hour

> drive over mountain passes from Eugene. Actually from Phoenix, it's

an

> 11 hour drive. Also a bit much.

>

>

> On Nov 20, 2008, at 6:38 AM, libby@... wrote:

>

> > Dear Vida,

> >

> > I sure will. Was not aware of that or I obviously wouldn't have

posted

> > it. I'd rather see fewer stalls per farm and more farms

participating.

> > However, AOBA has to pay the bills so perhaps it was lifted

because

> > AOBA

> > didn't sell out at Utah? I'll have to let someone else answer.

It's a

> > delicate balance but if sold out, I'd like to see more farms be

able

> > to

> > participate.

> >

> > However, this IS one for Jess and Ian and Dave and the rest:

What

> > about

> > the new policy being proposed that requires farms to qualify

their

> > alpacas

> > at regional shows before they are allowed to show at AOBA???? Do

you

> > see

> > this as discouraging participation? I sure do.

> >

> > Libby

> >

> > Libby Forstner

> > Magical Farms, Inc.

> > Litchfield Ohio

> > (330)667-3233

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[AlpacaTalk] Re: Let them eat cake.

Try driving it from South Misissippi.. Pretty much impossible!!

Vida Palmer
Kuska Paku Fram
Moss Point, MS

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@...>
wrote:
>
> I have some insight as to why they couldn't sell out Utah. It's out
of
> the way for EVERYBODY. Nationals, held in Louisville or Cleveland
is
> convenient for a large portion of the east and midwest, and
certainly
> those who live in Litchfield won't even have to stay in a hotel for
the
> show. How convenient is that!
>
> Salt Lake City is not a bad drive for those in the Southwest and
> California, but if you live anywhere else, it's a nightmare. 13
hour
> drive over mountain passes from Eugene. Actually from Phoenix, it's
an
> 11 hour drive. Also a bit much.
>
>
> On Nov 20, 2008, at 6:38 AM, libby@... wrote:
>
> > Dear Vida,
> >
> > I sure will. Was not aware of that or I obviously wouldn't have
posted
> > it. I'd rather see fewer stalls per farm and more farms
participating.
> > However, AOBA has to pay the bills so perhaps it was lifted
because
> > AOBA
> > didn't sell out at Utah? I'll have to let someone else answer.
It's a
> > delicate balance but if sold out, I'd like to see more farms be
able
> > to
> > participate.
> >
> > However, this IS one for Jess and Ian and Dave and the rest:
What
> > about
> > the new policy being proposed that requires farms to qualify
their
> > alpacas
> > at regional shows before they are allowed to show at AOBA???? Do
you
> > see
> > this as discouraging participation? I sure do.
> >
> > Libby
> >
> > Libby Forstner
> > Magical Farms, Inc.
> > Litchfield Ohio
> > (330)667-3233
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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