Well Jim,
I don't appreciate your constant carping on everything I say since that episode last year. I would very much appreciate it if you'd stop.
I did not label milk replacer as bad or useless.
Yes, the product I was using was Ultra 24 as well. Yes, it turned out to be less economical than cow milk with whipping cream and yogurt. And, if you look at the ingredients, as I did, you'll find that it has rendered animal products in it, something I don't care to feed to any herbivore.
I was feeding upwards of 70 ounces a day of the replacer (mixed according to the package directions) when the cria was less than a month old! Certainly that could not have caused dehydration.
After the heat stroke, I went back to the cow milk and weight gain improved significantly, despite the fact that I was feeding less than half the volume of milk compared to the replacer.
So now, with those facts, I will say that I found it to be a very poor feed for growing crias. And I would never recommend to anyone to use it.
I'll be happy to forward my feeding and growth chart for this bottle baby to anyone. I kept meticulous record of feedings and weights for months.
Heather
Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon
Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
On Mar 24, 2010, at 12:09 PM, J Guerin wrote:
How can you blame the milk replacer for nearly loosing your baby? I would think the heat stroke / dehydration had more to do with the problem, than the replacer.
The milk replacer is not more economical?? When I had my bottle baby, Brandie, I was buying goats milk at Wally World. It came out to more than $16 a Gallon. At one point, a snow storm closed the mountain pass, so the shipment couldn't get over the hump ( mountain ). I got a product called Grade A Ultra 24, a multi-purpose, multi species milk replacer, it was $33 for eight lbs. I added a Tbl spoon of plain yogurt per quart also. It came out to about a dollar a quart. Brandie sucked down 20 oz at each feeding. She is doing and looking very well.
Labeling all milk replacer as bad, or useless, is a disservice to everyone.
Jim Guerin
Jimmini Farm
Yelm, WA
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] what to use?
I tried milk replacer with my wall baby last year, and it could have been a bad sequence of events and coincidences, but I nearly lost her to heat stroke and dehydration during a heat wave last summer while she was on the replacer. I switched to whole cows milk with whipping cream and live yogurt, and it did take a while for her to gain the weight she lost, but I'll never mess around with replacers again. While it was more convenient, it was not more economical by any means, and if you lose a baby, it makes no sense at all.
And, even though it is not as effective as fresh colostrum, I will give reconstituted powdered bovine colostrum to any cria we think needs it. In the bovine studies I've read, while immunity is not as high as those who receive fresh, some is better than nothing, and those with the lower IgG did not show greater mortality than those who received fresh colostrum, who had the higher IgG values.
Heather
Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon
Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
On Mar 21, 2010, at 5:25 AM, Ellie Winslow wrote:
| Goats actually do better on store bought cow milk than any of the replacers. Or fresh if you have a trusted source of raw cow milk. Ellie (who has 35 years experience of raising goats and is author of the definitive goat book)
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--- On Sun, 3/21/10, Daniel Emmerich <enchantedmeadows@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Daniel Emmerich <enchantedmeadows@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] what to use?
To: alpacatalk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 21, 2010, 7:05 AM
I have mixed kid milk replacer with mom's milk and they all did fine. Make the change slowly with adding the milk replacer now, before you run out of moms milk. It stretches moms milk out and if you start milking 3x a day, it will not be a big deal when she supplies to all. I hope that helps. Peggy. Daniel and Peggy Emmerich EnchantedMeadows Alpacas & Goats 9357 CTY RD O Wausau WI 54401 715.675.0584 www.enchantedmeadow s.com
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
From: alpacameadows@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 21:34:19 -0400
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] what to use?
My first timer nubian goat, had triplets, she did reject them, but i'm milking her 2 times a day, and feeding the kids. She only gives about 1/2 gal. of milk per day, which i mix with some frozen milk, I had last year, from another goat. BUT now i'm running out of the frozen milk. And wondering what I can mix with moms milk, so there is enough, for each day. the kids are a week old, and doing very good, i'm feeding them at 8:00 12:30, 5:30 and the last feeding at 10:00 at night. That has been working pretty good. Should I mix moms milk with kid replacer? I sure hate to change things (formula). But when you run out, you have to do something! any suggestions? Carolyn 5395 w. 1275 s
Cedar City, Utah. 84720
phone # 435-865-2697
Fax # 435-865-1225
Cell # 435-233-0636
email Meadowsranch435@ aol.com
website www.freewebs. com/meadowsranch
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