[Alpacasite] Re: F&R Guide / Alaca Magazine

John is correct! I had read the bylaws when I joined, but have not
gone back to them for review since.

**********

2.2 The annual dues shall be set by the Board of Directors and
approved by the Membership at the next Annual Meeting.

2.3 The following classes of membership shall be recognized by the
Board of Directors: Farm Membership, Associate Membership, Lifetime
Mem­ bership, and Honorary Membership. The Board of Directors may set
different privileges for each class.

Janet Hufford
Dream Chaser Alpacas

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[Alpacasite] Re: F&R Guide / Alaca Magazine

Tim,

Someone has probably asked these questions before, but, how many
guides does AOBA mail out annually on average? What is the actual
S&H cost attributed to these mailings? Where did the $9.95 amount
come from, is this the actual cost involved or is the MC generating a
slight revenue from this to offset expenses in production?

Not trying to cause more problems, just trying to justify the charge
in my mind based on the number of farms listed within the guide. A
breakdown, so to speak, of each farm's share of the total actual cost
of shipping guides.

By the way, I would be willing to pay an increased membership fee
and/or advertising rates, and I am not complaining about the
seperation of benefits - as I understand the need to generate
revenues in business. And paying for AM does not bother me much, as
I enjoy the magazine and we pay much more than that for one night
out.

My concern is only with requiring prospects to pay to have our
materials sent to them. It is a tax deductible business expense, so
AOBA can't be taking a bath on the shipping. Did the MC consider the
possibility of passing on the cost to the farms - as it is tax
deductible for us as well? But a prospect that does not buy their
alpacas within a specific timeframe, cannot write it off (legally).
And yes, I do realize it is only $10. However, discouraging any
prospect may cost much more in the long run - either to a single farm
or the industry as a whole.

Janet Hufford
Dream Chaser Alpacas

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[Alpacasite] Re: F&R Guide / Alaca Magazine

Tim,

Someone has probably asked these questions before, but, how many
guides does AOBA mail out annually on average? What is the actual
S&H cost attributed to these mailings? Where did the $9.95 amount
come from, is this the actual cost involved or is the MC generating a
slight revenue from this to offset expenses in production?

Not trying to cause more problems, just trying to justify the charge
in my mind based on the number of farms listed within the guide. A
breakdown, so to speak, of each farm's share of the total actual cost
of shipping guides.

By the way, I would be willing to pay an increased membership fee
and/or advertising rates, and I am not complaining about the
seperation of benefits - as I understand the need to generate
revenues in business. And paying for AM does not bother me much, as
I enjoy the magazine and we pay much more than that for one night
out.

My concern is only with requiring prospects to pay to have our
materials sent to them. It is a tax deductible business expense, so
AOBA can't be taking a bath on the shipping. Did the MC consider the
possibility of passing on the cost to the farms - as it is tax
deductible for us as well? But a prospect that does not buy their
alpacas within a specific timeframe, cannot write it off (legally).
And yes, I do realize it is only $10. However, discouraging any
prospect may cost much more in the long run - either to a single farm
or the industry as a whole.

Janet Hufford
Dream Chaser Alpacas

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[Alpacasite] Re: F&R Guide / Alaca Magazine

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, Tim Wilson <tpwilson2@a...> wrote:
>
>
>
> I pose the following question: "Since our membership dues are set in
our
> Bylaws, and history has proven that it is VERY DIFFICULT to change
the
> bylaws and thus very unlikely to change the membership fee, how many
> would be in support of raising the fee for the F&RG ad to $1,000 and
> making the AM magazine as part of the benefits of placing an ad in
the
> F&RG"?
>

AOBA membership dues ARE NOT SET IN THE BYLAWS.

Article 2.2 of the AOBA Bylaws states, "2.2 The annual dues shall be
set by the Board of Directors and approved by the Membership at the
next Annual Meeting."

DUES ARE SET BY THE AOBA BOARD OF DIRECTORS!!!

Yes, I am shouting.

We have repeatedly heard (read) AOBA Directors and MARCOM members
promulgating the falsehood that it requires a change of Bylaws to
change the dues.

A careful reading of the Bylaws reveals that membership classes are
defined therein, while dues are not. The Board has it exactly
backwards, feeling free to create new classes of membership while
declaring their inability to change the dues structure.

This can only be interpreted in one of two ways. Either the Directors
have failed to read an understand the Association's Bylaws, or, there
is a willful attempt to deceive the membership.

Neither offers a very flattering view...

John Merrell
Gateway Farm Alpacas
http://www.gateway-alpacas.com
Alpaca, a natural elegance...

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[Alpacasite] Re: FRG S&H

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Erin McCarthy" <mccarthys@b...>
wrote:
>

>
> We will charge $9.95 shipping and handling to prospects. This money
will go
> back into further marketing, so we have increased our ad budget for
2006.
> We expect some leads to opt out of the S&H, so there will be a drop
for that
> reason, but likewise, with more ad dollars being spent, there should
be
> increased traffic to Alpacainfo.com (the FRG program website). We
are not
> sure exactly where this balance will settle, but we should know in
the first
> quarter. On the website and the phone, we will collect contact
information
> before notification of the S&H fee. We will have captured the leads
in just
> the same manner as before. If the prospect then drops out, we will
send
> them a cheaper marketing piece and direct them to the online farm
locator.
> The FRG members will be able to purchase both types of leads, so the
number
> of leads available to program participants will definitely go up -
and
> participants can decide if they want to purchase the leads that drop
out
> without S&H or not. Many of our FRG participants don't realize that
the
> most powerful part of FRG participation is purchasing the leads and
making
> contact with our inquiries.

So, Erin. In the end less people will get the F&RG that folks have
advertised in, with the expectation that their information will
receive significant exposure.

Meanwhile, those with larger advertising budgets, and the ability to
produce and send out their own glossy print advertising will be able
to leverage the system to their further advantage by purchasing leads
and sending out their own proprietary materials.

This advantage will be magnified by the fact that third page
advertisers have earlier access to the leads, while mainstram AOBA
members have a significantly later access to the leads - correct?

And. while all this is going on, the mainstram AOBA members (who's
dues maintain the infrastructure and day to day operations necessary
to even have a marketing program) will be getting what for their
annual dues?

It would appear to me (and from the tone of others posting on the
subject) that the advantages of AOBA membership are shrinking rapidly.
Further, it would appear that the benefits of AOBA marketing efforts
will in fact be experienced by a much smaller group of breeders.

How is this in anyone's best interests?

A significant number of members have voiced very lucid concerns about
the inequity of the AOBA marketing program for a number of years. Will
the most recent changes help to quell those concerns?

Will the current strategies meet your needs over time?

John Merrell
Gateway Farm Alpacas
http://www.gateway-alpacas.com
Alpaca, a natural elegance...

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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: F&R Guide / Alaca Magazine

Yes Tim, I would be willing. We could give this a try and if it fails then maybe charging more for the ads would be the way to go. Personally, yes paying a $1000.00 would be something I could easily budget, I conside PR to be the main and one of the most important instruments I have to making my farm successful, I make sure I have adequate funds to properly advertise. I am not really disagreeing with your aproach, this is just my thoughts, and the way I steer our farm. You guys have long considered this, debated it, and threw your experience and gut instinct in the mix and this is what you came up with, I am with you as long as you cut losses if it does not work and take the next feasable route.
Merry Christmas to everyone and a good night.
Teresa Hall

Tim Wilson <tpwilson2@adelphia.net> wrote:
Teresa,

Your idea was debated heavily and it was decided by the MC that
many/most farms would be resistant to an increase in costs for the F&RG
and it was decided that asking the responding public to pay a S&H charge
would help qualify the lead to those that advertised in the F&RG and
used the lead program (they go hand in hand). We hope we made the right
decision and if given time we shall see.

Would you be willing to pay $1,000 for a F&RG ad and get the Alpaca
Magazine for free (and eliminate the S&H charge)?

Thanks for your input.

Tim Wilson
Sterling Forrest Alpacas
Chagrin Falls, OH

Richard Hall wrote:

>Hi Tim,
> I like your thoughts on raising the price for ads in the F&RG, makes more sense then charging S&H and publishing.
> Teresa Hall
>
>Tim Wilson <tpwilson2@adelphia.net> wrote:
> Susan,
>
>I appreciate the fact that Alpaca Magazine is so well received, we too
>cannot wait until the next issue arrives. Like when you used to receive
>the Sear's catalogue.
>
>Please note that your membership dues do not even begin to touch the
>cost of marketing. The dues do not even cover the cost of running the
>association much less beginning to cover the cost of marketing. The
>single largest source of marketing dollars come from the F&RG. With the
>ever increasing cost to print and mail the publication it was decided to
>implement a S&H charge to help recover these costs (printing and
>shipping) so that more dollars could be left to advertise alpacas to new
>prospective alpaca farmers (in support of those that chose to advertise
>in the F&RG).
>
>I would agree that we all hate to consider that costs increase and we
>all hate to pay more for services rendered but unfortunately costs rise
>and we have to recoup those costs somehow.
>
>I pose the following question: "Since our membership dues are set in our
>Bylaws, and history has proven that it is VERY DIFFICULT to change the
>bylaws and thus very unlikely to change the membership fee, how many
>would be in support of raising the fee for the F&RG ad to $1,000 and
>making the AM magazine as part of the benefits of placing an ad in the
>F&RG"?
>
>If there is resounding support I suspect that the Marketing Committee
>would consider such an approach.
>
>Tim Wilson
>Sterling Forrest Alpacas
>Chagrin Falls, OH
>
>Susan Retzer wrote:
>
>
>
>>I too was very dismayed to learn that "Alpacas Magazine" would now
>>cost members additional funds. I know, I know, we pay AOBA dues to
>>pay for and benefit from the marketing of alpacas in general...blah,
>>blah, blah. But, it sure seems that we are getting less and less
>>for our money. Everything that is a tangible benefit, listing in
>>F&R Guide, web site listing, and now "Alpacas Magazine" costs a fee
>>outside of dues. If indeed the price is now going to be $75, that
>>seems rather much considering that this year, subscriptions for NON-
>>AOBA members was only $35.
>>
>>Okay, I feel better now and will go back to pressing my nose against
>>the mailbox door anxiously awaiting the next A.M issue :-)
>>
>>Susan Retzer
>>Singalong Alpacas
>>If you don't know the words...
>>just HUM!
>>Jacksonville, IL
>>http://www.singalongalpacas.com
>>
>>
>>--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "rchczc" <Radched@a...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>I've also heard that Alpaca Magazine is no longer included in the
>>>membership price, but can't find anywhere about how to keep it
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>coming.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Could someone fill me in - it wasn't in the boxes I found on the
>>>associate/farm member renewal form. Also, is it really $75?
>>>
>>>Heidi Christensen
>>>Graham WA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, Tim Wilson <tpwilson2@a...>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Pat & Sheila,
>>>>
>>>>It is a change in the program for 2006 (not required for those
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>in
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>2005
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>like yourselves).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>>
>>
>>
>>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>>http://aaalpacas.com
>>
>>
>>
>>TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>http://aaalpacas.com
>
>
>
>TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
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>
>
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>---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Teresa Hall
>Castle Ranch Alpacas
>7874 Castle View Lane
>Redding, Ca. 96001
>(530)246-7205
>www.alpacanation.com/castleranch.asp
>richardandteresa@sbcglobal.net
>
>
>
>
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>http://aaalpacas.com
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>
>
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>
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---------------------------------

Teresa Hall
Castle Ranch Alpacas
7874 Castle View Lane
Redding, Ca. 96001
(530)246-7205
www.alpacanation.com/castleranch.asp
richardandteresa@sbcglobal.net

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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: ARI fees

Hi Lucy, I accept the confusion in shifting offices, but the lab errors are a whole 'nuther ball of wax! The DNA is on record, for the parents, so if the markers don't show up matching the offspring, then it should be one of three sources of error: wrong parent, bad lab technique or computer error. We should only have to pay for the worng parent being submitted! The lab takes the cost of the last 2 errors. Am I wrong here? I know of no regular lab, testing humans or animals, that wouldn't cover the retesting when they mess up, free re-draw, free retesting. It is outrageous that we all are having to pay for their mistakes, and I don't care if it was clerical or lab based. We buy each new version of the FTA cards (do I care if it's one circle, two circles or three circles??) many pay the vet to draw blood, and then send it all in again to start over. This poor business practice needs to be corrected right now! Too many of us are forced to pay multiple registration fees for a single animal. It doesn't help now, to look back at how it all ran in the good old days, I never had a single problem. But to those who pushed for the big change, are you happy with that decision now? I am much happier with the Nebraska bunch. The Virginia office was a total fiasco from day one til the switch to Nebraska. Ok, ARI board members, step in and help us out here. Take care, Jane Levene
P.S. I'm not really angry or actually upset, much too busy for wasted emotions like that! But too many breeders are getting tagged with the extra fees unnecessarily. And boy, do I hope this doesn't put my latest bloodwork into perpetual limbo!

--
Jefferson Farms alpacas and LLamas
Denver CO
303-988-3080
jlevene@comcast.net

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "LUCY FARRAR" <FARRAR1036@msn.com>

> Jane wrote: " Hey everyone, after just having to "re-pay" to get an animal
> registered, due to ARI lab error, or rather lack of results, I am steamed! "
> Jane, I think you are in good company. I was just told yesterday that I needed
> to submit (and pay for) another blood card on a female that we drew blood on,
> paid for and submitted last August...that's August 2004! It took the lab 15
> months to figure out, or at least to notify me, that the previous sample only
> yielded 8 markers....and of course now they want 14! And to top it all, I'll pay
> another $5 for every recompare. This gal has 6 registered crias, including her
> 2004 cria, with no problems on her import DNA. How did I get so lucky!! That,
> in addition to being billed $30 for a transfer that I initiated and paid for
> online with a credit card, kind of shifts me into your steamed category also.
>
> To be fair, the current ARI office had a lot of "clean-up" to do on the
> billing/invoicing system (or lack of it) from the previous office. I recall
> getting a letter and print out about July 2004 asking me to check my records,
> verify them against theirs, and let them know if I owed any money or they owed
> me. I ask you: Would Dillard's still be in business if they didn't know how much
> I owed them each month and how much I had paid them??? Sorry, Jodi. Guess I'll
> have to run for the ARI board as punishment!
> Lucy Farrar
> Front Range Alpacas, LLC
> Monument, CO ph. 719-488-0986
> www.coloradoalpaca.com
> Home of Peruvian Desert Sun, whose dam is the $205,000 female!!
> Peruvians Aladdin & Avanti, too
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
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[Alpacasite] Re: FRG S&H

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Erin McCarthy" <mccarthys@b...>
wrote:
>
> Hi all,.....>

Erin,

Thank you so much for your post. It explains much and in a very
professional manner.

It has answered many questions for me personally, and I will continue
with my on-line farm listing. However, with the reactions we have
received from questioning our previous leads, we will take a wait and
see position on the guide. As a small farm, we have not yet had the
need to purchase leads, so I cannot speak to those; however if the
changes have the desired effect, it would definitely be a benefit.

Again, thank you for posting. It is very much appreciated. Have a
safe trip!

Janet Hufford
Dream Chaser Alpacas

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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: F&R Guide / Alaca Magazine

Teresa,

Your idea was debated heavily and it was decided by the MC that
many/most farms would be resistant to an increase in costs for the F&RG
and it was decided that asking the responding public to pay a S&H charge
would help qualify the lead to those that advertised in the F&RG and
used the lead program (they go hand in hand). We hope we made the right
decision and if given time we shall see.

Would you be willing to pay $1,000 for a F&RG ad and get the Alpaca
Magazine for free (and eliminate the S&H charge)?

Thanks for your input.

Tim Wilson
Sterling Forrest Alpacas
Chagrin Falls, OH

Richard Hall wrote:

>Hi Tim,
> I like your thoughts on raising the price for ads in the F&RG, makes more sense then charging S&H and publishing.
> Teresa Hall
>
>Tim Wilson <tpwilson2@adelphia.net> wrote:
> Susan,
>
>I appreciate the fact that Alpaca Magazine is so well received, we too
>cannot wait until the next issue arrives. Like when you used to receive
>the Sear's catalogue.
>
>Please note that your membership dues do not even begin to touch the
>cost of marketing. The dues do not even cover the cost of running the
>association much less beginning to cover the cost of marketing. The
>single largest source of marketing dollars come from the F&RG. With the
>ever increasing cost to print and mail the publication it was decided to
>implement a S&H charge to help recover these costs (printing and
>shipping) so that more dollars could be left to advertise alpacas to new
>prospective alpaca farmers (in support of those that chose to advertise
>in the F&RG).
>
>I would agree that we all hate to consider that costs increase and we
>all hate to pay more for services rendered but unfortunately costs rise
>and we have to recoup those costs somehow.
>
>I pose the following question: "Since our membership dues are set in our
>Bylaws, and history has proven that it is VERY DIFFICULT to change the
>bylaws and thus very unlikely to change the membership fee, how many
>would be in support of raising the fee for the F&RG ad to $1,000 and
>making the AM magazine as part of the benefits of placing an ad in the
>F&RG"?
>
>If there is resounding support I suspect that the Marketing Committee
>would consider such an approach.
>
>Tim Wilson
>Sterling Forrest Alpacas
>Chagrin Falls, OH
>
>Susan Retzer wrote:
>
>
>
>>I too was very dismayed to learn that "Alpacas Magazine" would now
>>cost members additional funds. I know, I know, we pay AOBA dues to
>>pay for and benefit from the marketing of alpacas in general...blah,
>>blah, blah. But, it sure seems that we are getting less and less
>>for our money. Everything that is a tangible benefit, listing in
>>F&R Guide, web site listing, and now "Alpacas Magazine" costs a fee
>>outside of dues. If indeed the price is now going to be $75, that
>>seems rather much considering that this year, subscriptions for NON-
>>AOBA members was only $35.
>>
>>Okay, I feel better now and will go back to pressing my nose against
>>the mailbox door anxiously awaiting the next A.M issue :-)
>>
>>Susan Retzer
>>Singalong Alpacas
>>If you don't know the words...
>>just HUM!
>>Jacksonville, IL
>>http://www.singalongalpacas.com
>>
>>
>>--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "rchczc" <Radched@a...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>I've also heard that Alpaca Magazine is no longer included in the
>>>membership price, but can't find anywhere about how to keep it
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>coming.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Could someone fill me in - it wasn't in the boxes I found on the
>>>associate/farm member renewal form. Also, is it really $75?
>>>
>>>Heidi Christensen
>>>Graham WA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, Tim Wilson <tpwilson2@a...>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Pat & Sheila,
>>>>
>>>>It is a change in the program for 2006 (not required for those
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>in
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>2005
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>like yourselves).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>>
>>
>>
>>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>>http://aaalpacas.com
>>
>>
>>
>>TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>http://aaalpacas.com
>
>
>
>TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "Alpacasite" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Alpacasite-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Teresa Hall
>Castle Ranch Alpacas
>7874 Castle View Lane
>Redding, Ca. 96001
>(530)246-7205
>www.alpacanation.com/castleranch.asp
>richardandteresa@sbcglobal.net
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>http://aaalpacas.com
>
>
>
>TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
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>

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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: F&R Guide / Alaca Magazine

Hi Tim,
I like your thoughts on raising the price for ads in the F&RG, makes more sense then charging S&H and publishing.
Teresa Hall

Tim Wilson <tpwilson2@adelphia.net> wrote:
Susan,

I appreciate the fact that Alpaca Magazine is so well received, we too
cannot wait until the next issue arrives. Like when you used to receive
the Sear's catalogue.

Please note that your membership dues do not even begin to touch the
cost of marketing. The dues do not even cover the cost of running the
association much less beginning to cover the cost of marketing. The
single largest source of marketing dollars come from the F&RG. With the
ever increasing cost to print and mail the publication it was decided to
implement a S&H charge to help recover these costs (printing and
shipping) so that more dollars could be left to advertise alpacas to new
prospective alpaca farmers (in support of those that chose to advertise
in the F&RG).

I would agree that we all hate to consider that costs increase and we
all hate to pay more for services rendered but unfortunately costs rise
and we have to recoup those costs somehow.

I pose the following question: "Since our membership dues are set in our
Bylaws, and history has proven that it is VERY DIFFICULT to change the
bylaws and thus very unlikely to change the membership fee, how many
would be in support of raising the fee for the F&RG ad to $1,000 and
making the AM magazine as part of the benefits of placing an ad in the
F&RG"?

If there is resounding support I suspect that the Marketing Committee
would consider such an approach.

Tim Wilson
Sterling Forrest Alpacas
Chagrin Falls, OH

Susan Retzer wrote:

>I too was very dismayed to learn that "Alpacas Magazine" would now
>cost members additional funds. I know, I know, we pay AOBA dues to
>pay for and benefit from the marketing of alpacas in general...blah,
>blah, blah. But, it sure seems that we are getting less and less
>for our money. Everything that is a tangible benefit, listing in
>F&R Guide, web site listing, and now "Alpacas Magazine" costs a fee
>outside of dues. If indeed the price is now going to be $75, that
>seems rather much considering that this year, subscriptions for NON-
>AOBA members was only $35.
>
>Okay, I feel better now and will go back to pressing my nose against
>the mailbox door anxiously awaiting the next A.M issue :-)
>
>Susan Retzer
>Singalong Alpacas
>If you don't know the words...
>just HUM!
>Jacksonville, IL
>http://www.singalongalpacas.com
>
>
>--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "rchczc" <Radched@a...> wrote:
>
>
>>I've also heard that Alpaca Magazine is no longer included in the
>>membership price, but can't find anywhere about how to keep it
>>
>>
>coming.
>
>
>>Could someone fill me in - it wasn't in the boxes I found on the
>>associate/farm member renewal form. Also, is it really $75?
>>
>>Heidi Christensen
>>Graham WA
>>
>>
>>
>>--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, Tim Wilson <tpwilson2@a...>
>>
>>
>wrote:
>
>
>>>Pat & Sheila,
>>>
>>>It is a change in the program for 2006 (not required for those
>>>
>>>
>in
>
>
>>2005
>>
>>
>>>like yourselves).
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>http://aaalpacas.com
>
>
>
>TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.

List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@alpacaweb.com
http://aaalpacas.com

TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join

---------------------------------
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Visit your group "Alpacasite" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Alpacasite-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

---------------------------------

Teresa Hall
Castle Ranch Alpacas
7874 Castle View Lane
Redding, Ca. 96001
(530)246-7205
www.alpacanation.com/castleranch.asp
richardandteresa@sbcglobal.net

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [Alpacasite] Note from the gestapo leader

Margie,

You pose a great question. One that I would ask: if ANYONE posts a
comment that ANYONE might consider as offensive or flaming should we
then ask Rick to ban that person?

If so then I can imagine we will be making allot of requests of Rick
since I can see many posts that could be offensive to someone.

I would hope that we don't head down that road but it appears we might.

Tim Wilson
Sterling Forrest Alpacas
Chagrin Falls, OH

Margie Korshoj wrote:

>Thank you Rick for the reminder.
>Are you saying that a vote for Ken to continue in the manner he posts, then the site is going to be wide open like alpaca politics?
>
>While alpacapolitics is no holds barred, and below the belt is okay there; it would be great if alpacasite could be on higher ground.
>
>Margie
>Margie Korshoj
>mkorshoj@comcast.net
>10313 SW 87th Ave.
>Tigard, OR 97223
>503-412-8689
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>http://aaalpacas.com
>
>
>
>TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: F&R Guide / Alaca Magazine

Susan,

I appreciate the fact that Alpaca Magazine is so well received, we too
cannot wait until the next issue arrives. Like when you used to receive
the Sear's catalogue.

Please note that your membership dues do not even begin to touch the
cost of marketing. The dues do not even cover the cost of running the
association much less beginning to cover the cost of marketing. The
single largest source of marketing dollars come from the F&RG. With the
ever increasing cost to print and mail the publication it was decided to
implement a S&H charge to help recover these costs (printing and
shipping) so that more dollars could be left to advertise alpacas to new
prospective alpaca farmers (in support of those that chose to advertise
in the F&RG).

I would agree that we all hate to consider that costs increase and we
all hate to pay more for services rendered but unfortunately costs rise
and we have to recoup those costs somehow.

I pose the following question: "Since our membership dues are set in our
Bylaws, and history has proven that it is VERY DIFFICULT to change the
bylaws and thus very unlikely to change the membership fee, how many
would be in support of raising the fee for the F&RG ad to $1,000 and
making the AM magazine as part of the benefits of placing an ad in the
F&RG"?

If there is resounding support I suspect that the Marketing Committee
would consider such an approach.

Tim Wilson
Sterling Forrest Alpacas
Chagrin Falls, OH

Susan Retzer wrote:

>I too was very dismayed to learn that "Alpacas Magazine" would now
>cost members additional funds. I know, I know, we pay AOBA dues to
>pay for and benefit from the marketing of alpacas in general...blah,
>blah, blah. But, it sure seems that we are getting less and less
>for our money. Everything that is a tangible benefit, listing in
>F&R Guide, web site listing, and now "Alpacas Magazine" costs a fee
>outside of dues. If indeed the price is now going to be $75, that
>seems rather much considering that this year, subscriptions for NON-
>AOBA members was only $35.
>
>Okay, I feel better now and will go back to pressing my nose against
>the mailbox door anxiously awaiting the next A.M issue :-)
>
>Susan Retzer
>Singalong Alpacas
>If you don't know the words...
>just HUM!
>Jacksonville, IL
>http://www.singalongalpacas.com
>
>
>--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "rchczc" <Radched@a...> wrote:
>
>
>>I've also heard that Alpaca Magazine is no longer included in the
>>membership price, but can't find anywhere about how to keep it
>>
>>
>coming.
>
>
>>Could someone fill me in - it wasn't in the boxes I found on the
>>associate/farm member renewal form. Also, is it really $75?
>>
>>Heidi Christensen
>>Graham WA
>>
>>
>>
>>--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, Tim Wilson <tpwilson2@a...>
>>
>>
>wrote:
>
>
>>>Pat & Sheila,
>>>
>>>It is a change in the program for 2006 (not required for those
>>>
>>>
>in
>
>
>>2005
>>
>>
>>>like yourselves).
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>http://aaalpacas.com
>
>
>
>TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[Alpacasite] Re: Adverse reactions in cria to CDT shot

Cathy

The short answer to why a cria is given a CD&T shot so young is that
even though the cria's immune system can't produce significant
amounts of antibodies it can still learn to recognize "not self".
Think of early CD&T shots as priming the pump.

Reactions to vaccines can happen at any age. In our own herd when an
alpaca (at any age) has a reaction to a vaccine, it the last shot of
that vaccine that the alpaca gets.

Neil
A Paca Fun Farm
Mt. Airy, Maryland
Sugarloaf Mountain, Maryland
www.apacafunfarm.com

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, Cathy Stephenson
<midnightfire@c...> wrote:
>
> Newbie asking a question, If the cria is still under the influence
of the
> natural immunities why give the shot so early? If it could cause
reactions
> in the very young should it be postponed a bit. Just a question
Cathy
> StephenOakes Farms
> Chester. SC
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patricks' Pastures Alpaca Ranch & Habitat"
> <patrickspastures@v...>
> To: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 6:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Adverse reactions in cria to CDT shot
>
>
> > Evelyn,
> >
> > We had a cria drop dead 15 minutes after 7Way and a rabies shot
was given.
> >
> > Jim Patrick
> > Patricks' Pastures Alpaca Ranch & Habitat
> > 3030 N. Trinity Rd.
> > Denton, TX 76208
> > 940-323-1011 (Ranch Office)
> > 214-505-0754 (Jim Patrick's Mobile)
> > patrickspastures@v...
> > www.patrickspastures.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: E. Rich
> > To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 5:08 PM
> > Subject: [Alpacasite] Adverse reactions in cria to CDT shot
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> > Yesterday, our vet gave CDT shots to our first crias. One of
them, a
> > boy, coughed immediately afterwards and had intermittant bad
coughing
> > spells for the rest of the day. We wondered if he was allergic
to the
> > shot. Also, the other cria, a girl being bottle fed, has lost
her
> > appetite today. Both crias seem very tired. Is this normal
after a CDT
> > shot? Our vet said it would stress their immune systems.
> >
> > Anyone else notice adverse reactions in a cria after receiving
CDT shots?
> > Please advise.
> >
> > Thank you for your reply.
> >
> > Evelyn Richardson
> > Silver Waters Alpaca Ranch
> > Lake Fork, TX & Delhi, LA
> > LA Deep South Alpaca Show
> >
> >
> > Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility
of the
> > person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
message in no
> > way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
> >
> >
> >
> > List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
> > alpacas@a...
> > http://aaalpacas.com
> >
> >
> >
> > TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > a.. Visit your group "Alpacasite" on the web.
> >
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> >
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of
> > Service.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
the
> > person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
message in no
> > way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
> >
> >
> >
> > List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
> > alpacas@a...
> > http://aaalpacas.com
> >
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

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[Alpacasite] FRG S&H

Hi all,

I have a 6:00 AM flight to the New England Type Conference, so this will be
short and sweet.

The proposal of charging for shipping and handling has been on the table for
about two years. The MARCOM spent hours and several years deciding to try
the concept. The FRG has been a relatively flat program for several years,
which has concerned us only because the membership has grown, but the
program has not grown as rapidly. Also in 2004 and 2005, the needs of the
overall AOBA organization has caused the MARCOM budget to be cut, and our
leads and membership growth have fallen correspondingly. We analyzed our
2005 results, and there was a direct, almost 100% correlation with our ad
budget and our membership growth. In 2005, our budget DECREASED 19% and our
growth also decreased 19%. The MARCOM would like to see this lost ground
regained, so we brainstormed new programs and changes to our existing
programs.

In 2006, the following will change in the FRG program.

We will charge $9.95 shipping and handling to prospects. This money will go
back into further marketing, so we have increased our ad budget for 2006.
We expect some leads to opt out of the S&H, so there will be a drop for that
reason, but likewise, with more ad dollars being spent, there should be
increased traffic to Alpacainfo.com (the FRG program website). We are not
sure exactly where this balance will settle, but we should know in the first
quarter. On the website and the phone, we will collect contact information
before notification of the S&H fee. We will have captured the leads in just
the same manner as before. If the prospect then drops out, we will send
them a cheaper marketing piece and direct them to the online farm locator.
The FRG members will be able to purchase both types of leads, so the number
of leads available to program participants will definitely go up - and
participants can decide if they want to purchase the leads that drop out
without S&H or not. Many of our FRG participants don't realize that the
most powerful part of FRG participation is purchasing the leads and making
contact with our inquiries.

Also new in 2006 is the IRD section of the book - this is the Industry
Resource Directory. It is again intended to provide funds to increase our
advertising exposure one the national level.

Both of these are new and heavily debated changes to the FRG program. The
MARCOMM will be closely tracking the success of these programs and reacting
appropriately with the 2007 program. We may find that these are wonderful
changes or we may fall back on the old adage - If it ain't broke, don't fix
it. Time will tell.

Please be patient and kind to your volunteers - we do this for very little
reward and it gets tough when the criticisms fly.

God Bless and Happy Holidays,

Erin McCarthy

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Re: [Alpacasite] Note from the gestapo leader

Thank you Rick for the reminder.
Are you saying that a vote for Ken to continue in the manner he posts, then the site is going to be wide open like alpaca politics?

While alpacapolitics is no holds barred, and below the belt is okay there; it would be great if alpacasite could be on higher ground.

Margie
Margie Korshoj
mkorshoj@comcast.net
10313 SW 87th Ave.
Tigard, OR 97223
503-412-8689

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Re: [Alpacasite] Adverse reactions in cria to CDT shot

Newbie asking a question, If the cria is still under the influence of the
natural immunities why give the shot so early? If it could cause reactions
in the very young should it be postponed a bit. Just a question Cathy
StephenOakes Farms
Chester. SC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patricks' Pastures Alpaca Ranch & Habitat"
<patrickspastures@verizon.net>
To: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Adverse reactions in cria to CDT shot

> Evelyn,
>
> We had a cria drop dead 15 minutes after 7Way and a rabies shot was given.
>
> Jim Patrick
> Patricks' Pastures Alpaca Ranch & Habitat
> 3030 N. Trinity Rd.
> Denton, TX 76208
> 940-323-1011 (Ranch Office)
> 214-505-0754 (Jim Patrick's Mobile)
> patrickspastures@verizon.net
> www.patrickspastures.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: E. Rich
> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 5:08 PM
> Subject: [Alpacasite] Adverse reactions in cria to CDT shot
>
>
> Hello,
> Yesterday, our vet gave CDT shots to our first crias. One of them, a
> boy, coughed immediately afterwards and had intermittant bad coughing
> spells for the rest of the day. We wondered if he was allergic to the
> shot. Also, the other cria, a girl being bottle fed, has lost her
> appetite today. Both crias seem very tired. Is this normal after a CDT
> shot? Our vet said it would stress their immune systems.
>
> Anyone else notice adverse reactions in a cria after receiving CDT shots?
> Please advise.
>
> Thank you for your reply.
>
> Evelyn Richardson
> Silver Waters Alpaca Ranch
> Lake Fork, TX & Delhi, LA
> LA Deep South Alpaca Show
>
>
> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the
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>
> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
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>
>
>
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>
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>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Farm and Ranch Guide decisions

And I agree, but my mother always said "It's better to appear a fool than
to open your mouth and remove all doubt" There are nicer ways of telling
the so called truth and some tack and diplomancy would go a long ways with
any opinion. Cathy
StephenOakes Farms
Chester, SC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamie Flores" <jamie_flrs@yahoo.com>
To: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 7:38 PM
Subject: [Alpacasite] Re: Farm and Ranch Guide decisions

>I am a lurker, but I have to speak up also, I was totally appalled
> by Sharon's post. There is definitely a way to make your point
> without being so nasty and rude--and lately that seems like all that
> has been going on. I guess I should have hit the delete key sooner-
> but-just couldn't believe what I was reading. My momma always
> said, "Think before you speak", so I'm sure Sharon would not have
> written such a nasty reply-no matter what her views are-if she would
> have taken a little more time to think her response out. Or al least
> I would like to think that!!
> Jamie Flores
> Shi'Lo' Alpacas
> Seminole, FL
>
>
> --- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "J.L.Morrow" <jlmorrow@m...>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Sharon,
>>
>> I have to speak up for Steve. Of all the people in the business
> Steve has
>> been one of the most supportive, and helpful that I know. He has
> great
>> vision, understanding and knowledge. He has willing helped me
> this summer
>> with several issues, and I credit him with the survival of my
> premature
>> cria.
>>
>> I can understand not always agreeing with someone, but to speak so
> rudely,
>> is not only against list rules but common courtesy. There is also
> a
>> difference between the 'plain truth' and 'plain rudeness'.
>>
>> Janet
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sharonkennels [mailto:sharonkennels@y...]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 7:01 PM
>> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [Alpacasite] Re: Farm and Ranch Guide decisions
>>
>>
>> I get more business by telling the plain truth than with lies and
>> half truths.
>>
>>
>> --- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Jeannie Wells" <jeannie@b...>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > You've got a heck of a personality you're showing. Do you expect
>> people to
>> > want to do business with you when you speak to others like this?
>> I can say
>> > I don't want to.
>> > It's not surprising that you're "anonymous"---I'd be embarrassed
>> to be
>> > identified, too, if I had just said the things you said.
>> >
>> > Jeannie Wells
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On
>> > Behalf Of sharonkennels
>> > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 5:35 PM
>> > To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: [Alpacasite] Re: Farm and Ranch Guide decisions
>> >
>> >
>> > Steve get real. Who died and made you God?
>> > How do you read the minds of the people who order the farm and
>> ranch
>> > guide? Are you Jesus Crist come back early?
>> > So the farm and ranch guide cost umpteen dollars to produce, so
>> > what, is it your money? No it is the money that we members pay.
>> >
>> > If the people who pay for leads find out that the leads have no
>> > acreage, maybe they should see my success. I did not pay for a
>> lead
>> > but had someone with no acreage get a F And R guide which they
>> would
>> > not have bought, then phoned me to ask about alpacas and I sold
>> them
>> > acreage at a 150 percent profit.
>> > All from my farm and ranch guide ad.
>> >
>> > I suggest you members of the marketing comittee wake up and look
>> at
>> > the real world.
>> > Raise the price of the ads. Charge people more for the web site
>> > listing. Cut out the tv ads which by the way point people to
>> > www.alpacainfo.com where they will now be asked to pay for
> sending
>> > out our advertising.
>> > Why should we give a worthless plan like ripping off potential
>> > customers for year.
>> >
>> > Get real people. We farmers who elected you are not going to drop
>> > out. We are going to go the courts and kick you out.
>> >
>> > Sharon Kennels.
>> > I am anonymous so as not to get banned.
>> > But your gestapo leader will ban me anyway.
>> > Goodbye
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hull, TimberLake Farms.
>> > Inc" <steve@t...> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Kim, I hear your concern on the Farm and Ranch Guide (F&RG)
>> > mailing
>> > > fee, but consider that about 30% (or more) or the F&RGs have
>> been
>> > > sent out to people with absolutely no intention of raising
>> > > alpacas. That guide costs a lot of money both for printing and
>> > > mailing (I think $30-40 or so). Prior to now, there has been
> no
>> > fee
>> > > for the guide nor a fee for the mailing cost.
>> > >
>> > > Secondly, a lot of people who get (and pay for) the leads
>> complain
>> > > that the many (majority?) of the leads are people with no
>> acreage
>> > or
>> > > no intention of raising alpacas. The people who purchase the
>> > leads
>> > > from AOBA ask us to "qualify" the leads better. We thought we
>> > were
>> > > doing this by asking about the size of the farm, but frankly
>> > people
>> > > "say" they have 100 acres when they only have a 1/4 acre lot.
>> > >
>> > > Can we really afford to send out this cost of a publication
> with
>> > no
>> > > qualifications whatsoever? The Marketing Committee spend many
>> > nights
>> > > and many long discussions on exactly this issue. They
>> recommended
>> > to
>> > > the board, and the board agreed that we would send out the
> guide
>> > > free, but attach a small mailing fee ($9.95).
>> > >
>> > > If they do not want to spend that small sum, we are still
>> > collecting
>> > > names, addresses so that we can send out other lower cost
>> material.
>> > >
>> > > Yes, we expect that the total numbers of F&RGs sent out will go
>> > down,
>> > > but we expect that the numbers of qualified leads will increase
>> > > tremendously. Let's give it try this way for a year and then
> we
>> > do
>> > > plan to re-evaluate.
>> > >
>> > > Erin McCarthy may have additional comments as she spend many,
>> many
>> > > nights discussing this with the marketing committee.
>> > >
>> > > Steve H.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > At 03:18 PM 12/08/2005, you wrote:
>> > > >Hi Janet,
>> > > >I also ask people that visit my farm how they found me. After
>> > > >reviewing the new membership levels before renewing this
> year, I
>> > > >contacted past clients and visitors that said they had found
> me
>> in
>> > > >the F&R Guide to inquire what they thought about a fee
>> associated
>> > > >with receiving the information packet. The ones that had sent
>> for
>> > > >the AOBA packet said they would NOT have paid to receive it.
>> > > >I think the F&R Guide has been a valuable marketing tool for
> me
>> in
>> > > >the past when there was not a charge to interested parties,
> and
>> I
>> > do
>> > > >understand that things need to change financially for AOBA
> with
>> > > >regard to the free mailing. I believe mailings will
>> significantly
>> > > >decrease as people won't want to pay to receive advertising,
> as
>> > you
>> > > >point out, and more prospective new breeders will find web
> sites
>> > > >useful as their source for locating existing farms. Not sure
>> what
>> > > >changes we will see for 2007 renewals, but it would be
>> reasonable
>> > to
>> > > >deduct that if the Guide is mailed at no cost again, the cost
> to
>> > > >advertise in it will go up. Should be interesting to hear
> what
>> > > >people think after this year and to see how the numbers of
>> > > >advertisers and Guides mailed out changed.
>> > > >Kim
>> > > >Columbine Ranch, Morrison, CO
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Dream Chaser Alpacas"
>> > > ><hufford@d...> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I know this has been discussed on the site previously, but
> I
>> > have
>> > > > > recently had a complaint from someone interested in alpacas
>> > about
>> > > >AOBA
>> > > > > requiring interested parties to "pay for AOBA's
> advertising".
>> > > >This
>> > > > > person has informed me that they would not ever pay to have
>> > > >someone
>> > > > > elses advertising sent to them....and the price of nearly
>> $10
>> > to
>> > > > > receive the advertising material is outrageous. One farm
>> > visitor
>> > > > > stated there were only 5 farms listed in their area they
>> would
>> > be
>> > > > > visiting and if they had had to pay for the guide, they
>> > wouldn't
>> > > >be
>> > > > > visiting them unless they had learned about them another
>> way.
>> > As
>> > > >his
>> > > > > wife said, "I wouldn't pay 2 bucks a farm just for names!"
>> > > > >
>> > > > > This is of high concern to us as a small alpaca farm. Four
>> of
>> > the
>> > > >six
>> > > > > contacts made by us with prospective buyers this past year
>> was
>> > > >through
>> > > > > our ad in the guide (including one from Canada) and one was
>> > from
>> > > >the
>> > > > > online farm site listing. And although we are not actively
>> > > >pursuing
>> > > > > sales currently, we have tried to show our visitors that
>> even a
>> > > >small
>> > > > > farm venture can succeed, as we have grown from 5 to 11
>> > alpacas in
>> > > > > just over a year, built our outbuildings, and begun
> agisting
>> > > >animals.
>> > > > > We try to help them understand what is entailed and what
>> they
>> > can
>> > > > > realistically expect. Then we refer them to farms we
> believe
>> > > > > are "reliable" to purchase animals or research further, and
>> we
>> > > >refer
>> > > > > them to a couple of alpaca sites to learn the "good, bad,
>> and
>> > the
>> > > > > ugly".
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Most of our visitors are not looking for a get rich scheme,
>> > they
>> > > >are
>> > > > > researching a possible change in lifestyle for their
>> families
>> > and
>> > > >a
>> > > > > future income - which will at least allow them to live
>> > comfortably
>> > > >and
>> > > > > as some have said, spend more time with their families.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Since the anouncement of the changes in policy, we have
> also
>> > asked
>> > > >our
>> > > > > visitors if they received the guide or just accessed us on
>> > line,
>> > > >and
>> > > > > if they would have paid for it if necessary. ALL have said
>> they
>> > > >would
>> > > > > not have paid for the guide. At least two have bought into
>> > > >alpacas,
>> > > > > one a dispersal herd. The others are continuing their
>> research,
>> > > >three
>> > > > > of them are on this site. This is at least four people who
>> > might
>> > > >not
>> > > > > have found our farm if they had to pay for the guide.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Since our ad in the guide is paid for by us with the
>> intention
>> > and
>> > > > > understanding that our listing be made available to
> possible
>> > > >future
>> > > > > buyers and those researching alpacas as a business, we have
>> > become
>> > > > > even more concerned with AOBA charging $9.95 for the guide
>> > under
>> > > >the
>> > > > > ruse of shipping. I ship packages to Alaska, and sometimes
>> > that
>> > > > > doesn't even cost me $9.95.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Does anyone else share these concerns? If what our farm
>> > visitors
>> > > >have
>> > > > > said are true, I don't see a reason to use the farm guide
> as
>> > part
>> > > >of
>> > > > > our advertising plan.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Janet Hufford
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility
>> of
>> > > >the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of
>> each
>> > > >message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or
>> > Yahoo.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>> alpacas@a...
>> > > >http://aaalpacas.com
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > Steve . . . .
>> > >
>> > > TimberLake Farms, Inc.
>> > > Tom Cameron, D.V.M. & Steve Hull, Ph.D.
>> > > Edmond, Oklahoma
>> > >
>> > > A Full Service Alpaca Farm Including Seminars And Consulting
>> > >
>> > > www.timberlakefarms.net
>> > >
>> > > e-mails: mailto:steve@t...
>> > > mailto:tom@t...
>> > >
>> > > Farm Telephone: 405 341-8444
>> > > Farm Cell Telephone: 405 550-3023
>> > > Farm Fax: 405 330-8444
>> > >
>> > > note: opinions made here are not and cannot be construed to be
>> > > specific veterinary advice, diagnosis or treatments. Both Tom
>> and
>> > > Steve strongly suggest always checking with your own
>> veterinarian.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
>> the person
>> > posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in
>> no way
>> > reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
> alpacas@a...
>> > http://aaalpacas.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _____
>> >
>> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > * Visit your group "Alpacasite
>> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite> " on the web.
>> >
>> >
>> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> > Alpacasite-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> > <mailto:Alpacasite-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
>> subject=Unsubscribe>
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>> >
>> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
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>> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>> >
>> >
>> > _____
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
> the person
>> posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in
> no way
>> reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>>
>>
>>
>> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@a...
>> http://aaalpacas.com
>>
>>
>>
>> TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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> way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
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>
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