Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Farm and Ranch Guide decisions

And I agree, but my mother always said "It's better to appear a fool than
to open your mouth and remove all doubt" There are nicer ways of telling
the so called truth and some tack and diplomancy would go a long ways with
any opinion. Cathy
StephenOakes Farms
Chester, SC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamie Flores" <jamie_flrs@yahoo.com>
To: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 7:38 PM
Subject: [Alpacasite] Re: Farm and Ranch Guide decisions

>I am a lurker, but I have to speak up also, I was totally appalled
> by Sharon's post. There is definitely a way to make your point
> without being so nasty and rude--and lately that seems like all that
> has been going on. I guess I should have hit the delete key sooner-
> but-just couldn't believe what I was reading. My momma always
> said, "Think before you speak", so I'm sure Sharon would not have
> written such a nasty reply-no matter what her views are-if she would
> have taken a little more time to think her response out. Or al least
> I would like to think that!!
> Jamie Flores
> Shi'Lo' Alpacas
> Seminole, FL
>
>
> --- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "J.L.Morrow" <jlmorrow@m...>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Sharon,
>>
>> I have to speak up for Steve. Of all the people in the business
> Steve has
>> been one of the most supportive, and helpful that I know. He has
> great
>> vision, understanding and knowledge. He has willing helped me
> this summer
>> with several issues, and I credit him with the survival of my
> premature
>> cria.
>>
>> I can understand not always agreeing with someone, but to speak so
> rudely,
>> is not only against list rules but common courtesy. There is also
> a
>> difference between the 'plain truth' and 'plain rudeness'.
>>
>> Janet
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sharonkennels [mailto:sharonkennels@y...]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 7:01 PM
>> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [Alpacasite] Re: Farm and Ranch Guide decisions
>>
>>
>> I get more business by telling the plain truth than with lies and
>> half truths.
>>
>>
>> --- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Jeannie Wells" <jeannie@b...>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > You've got a heck of a personality you're showing. Do you expect
>> people to
>> > want to do business with you when you speak to others like this?
>> I can say
>> > I don't want to.
>> > It's not surprising that you're "anonymous"---I'd be embarrassed
>> to be
>> > identified, too, if I had just said the things you said.
>> >
>> > Jeannie Wells
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On
>> > Behalf Of sharonkennels
>> > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 5:35 PM
>> > To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: [Alpacasite] Re: Farm and Ranch Guide decisions
>> >
>> >
>> > Steve get real. Who died and made you God?
>> > How do you read the minds of the people who order the farm and
>> ranch
>> > guide? Are you Jesus Crist come back early?
>> > So the farm and ranch guide cost umpteen dollars to produce, so
>> > what, is it your money? No it is the money that we members pay.
>> >
>> > If the people who pay for leads find out that the leads have no
>> > acreage, maybe they should see my success. I did not pay for a
>> lead
>> > but had someone with no acreage get a F And R guide which they
>> would
>> > not have bought, then phoned me to ask about alpacas and I sold
>> them
>> > acreage at a 150 percent profit.
>> > All from my farm and ranch guide ad.
>> >
>> > I suggest you members of the marketing comittee wake up and look
>> at
>> > the real world.
>> > Raise the price of the ads. Charge people more for the web site
>> > listing. Cut out the tv ads which by the way point people to
>> > www.alpacainfo.com where they will now be asked to pay for
> sending
>> > out our advertising.
>> > Why should we give a worthless plan like ripping off potential
>> > customers for year.
>> >
>> > Get real people. We farmers who elected you are not going to drop
>> > out. We are going to go the courts and kick you out.
>> >
>> > Sharon Kennels.
>> > I am anonymous so as not to get banned.
>> > But your gestapo leader will ban me anyway.
>> > Goodbye
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hull, TimberLake Farms.
>> > Inc" <steve@t...> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Kim, I hear your concern on the Farm and Ranch Guide (F&RG)
>> > mailing
>> > > fee, but consider that about 30% (or more) or the F&RGs have
>> been
>> > > sent out to people with absolutely no intention of raising
>> > > alpacas. That guide costs a lot of money both for printing and
>> > > mailing (I think $30-40 or so). Prior to now, there has been
> no
>> > fee
>> > > for the guide nor a fee for the mailing cost.
>> > >
>> > > Secondly, a lot of people who get (and pay for) the leads
>> complain
>> > > that the many (majority?) of the leads are people with no
>> acreage
>> > or
>> > > no intention of raising alpacas. The people who purchase the
>> > leads
>> > > from AOBA ask us to "qualify" the leads better. We thought we
>> > were
>> > > doing this by asking about the size of the farm, but frankly
>> > people
>> > > "say" they have 100 acres when they only have a 1/4 acre lot.
>> > >
>> > > Can we really afford to send out this cost of a publication
> with
>> > no
>> > > qualifications whatsoever? The Marketing Committee spend many
>> > nights
>> > > and many long discussions on exactly this issue. They
>> recommended
>> > to
>> > > the board, and the board agreed that we would send out the
> guide
>> > > free, but attach a small mailing fee ($9.95).
>> > >
>> > > If they do not want to spend that small sum, we are still
>> > collecting
>> > > names, addresses so that we can send out other lower cost
>> material.
>> > >
>> > > Yes, we expect that the total numbers of F&RGs sent out will go
>> > down,
>> > > but we expect that the numbers of qualified leads will increase
>> > > tremendously. Let's give it try this way for a year and then
> we
>> > do
>> > > plan to re-evaluate.
>> > >
>> > > Erin McCarthy may have additional comments as she spend many,
>> many
>> > > nights discussing this with the marketing committee.
>> > >
>> > > Steve H.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > At 03:18 PM 12/08/2005, you wrote:
>> > > >Hi Janet,
>> > > >I also ask people that visit my farm how they found me. After
>> > > >reviewing the new membership levels before renewing this
> year, I
>> > > >contacted past clients and visitors that said they had found
> me
>> in
>> > > >the F&R Guide to inquire what they thought about a fee
>> associated
>> > > >with receiving the information packet. The ones that had sent
>> for
>> > > >the AOBA packet said they would NOT have paid to receive it.
>> > > >I think the F&R Guide has been a valuable marketing tool for
> me
>> in
>> > > >the past when there was not a charge to interested parties,
> and
>> I
>> > do
>> > > >understand that things need to change financially for AOBA
> with
>> > > >regard to the free mailing. I believe mailings will
>> significantly
>> > > >decrease as people won't want to pay to receive advertising,
> as
>> > you
>> > > >point out, and more prospective new breeders will find web
> sites
>> > > >useful as their source for locating existing farms. Not sure
>> what
>> > > >changes we will see for 2007 renewals, but it would be
>> reasonable
>> > to
>> > > >deduct that if the Guide is mailed at no cost again, the cost
> to
>> > > >advertise in it will go up. Should be interesting to hear
> what
>> > > >people think after this year and to see how the numbers of
>> > > >advertisers and Guides mailed out changed.
>> > > >Kim
>> > > >Columbine Ranch, Morrison, CO
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Dream Chaser Alpacas"
>> > > ><hufford@d...> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I know this has been discussed on the site previously, but
> I
>> > have
>> > > > > recently had a complaint from someone interested in alpacas
>> > about
>> > > >AOBA
>> > > > > requiring interested parties to "pay for AOBA's
> advertising".
>> > > >This
>> > > > > person has informed me that they would not ever pay to have
>> > > >someone
>> > > > > elses advertising sent to them....and the price of nearly
>> $10
>> > to
>> > > > > receive the advertising material is outrageous. One farm
>> > visitor
>> > > > > stated there were only 5 farms listed in their area they
>> would
>> > be
>> > > > > visiting and if they had had to pay for the guide, they
>> > wouldn't
>> > > >be
>> > > > > visiting them unless they had learned about them another
>> way.
>> > As
>> > > >his
>> > > > > wife said, "I wouldn't pay 2 bucks a farm just for names!"
>> > > > >
>> > > > > This is of high concern to us as a small alpaca farm. Four
>> of
>> > the
>> > > >six
>> > > > > contacts made by us with prospective buyers this past year
>> was
>> > > >through
>> > > > > our ad in the guide (including one from Canada) and one was
>> > from
>> > > >the
>> > > > > online farm site listing. And although we are not actively
>> > > >pursuing
>> > > > > sales currently, we have tried to show our visitors that
>> even a
>> > > >small
>> > > > > farm venture can succeed, as we have grown from 5 to 11
>> > alpacas in
>> > > > > just over a year, built our outbuildings, and begun
> agisting
>> > > >animals.
>> > > > > We try to help them understand what is entailed and what
>> they
>> > can
>> > > > > realistically expect. Then we refer them to farms we
> believe
>> > > > > are "reliable" to purchase animals or research further, and
>> we
>> > > >refer
>> > > > > them to a couple of alpaca sites to learn the "good, bad,
>> and
>> > the
>> > > > > ugly".
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Most of our visitors are not looking for a get rich scheme,
>> > they
>> > > >are
>> > > > > researching a possible change in lifestyle for their
>> families
>> > and
>> > > >a
>> > > > > future income - which will at least allow them to live
>> > comfortably
>> > > >and
>> > > > > as some have said, spend more time with their families.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Since the anouncement of the changes in policy, we have
> also
>> > asked
>> > > >our
>> > > > > visitors if they received the guide or just accessed us on
>> > line,
>> > > >and
>> > > > > if they would have paid for it if necessary. ALL have said
>> they
>> > > >would
>> > > > > not have paid for the guide. At least two have bought into
>> > > >alpacas,
>> > > > > one a dispersal herd. The others are continuing their
>> research,
>> > > >three
>> > > > > of them are on this site. This is at least four people who
>> > might
>> > > >not
>> > > > > have found our farm if they had to pay for the guide.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Since our ad in the guide is paid for by us with the
>> intention
>> > and
>> > > > > understanding that our listing be made available to
> possible
>> > > >future
>> > > > > buyers and those researching alpacas as a business, we have
>> > become
>> > > > > even more concerned with AOBA charging $9.95 for the guide
>> > under
>> > > >the
>> > > > > ruse of shipping. I ship packages to Alaska, and sometimes
>> > that
>> > > > > doesn't even cost me $9.95.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Does anyone else share these concerns? If what our farm
>> > visitors
>> > > >have
>> > > > > said are true, I don't see a reason to use the farm guide
> as
>> > part
>> > > >of
>> > > > > our advertising plan.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Janet Hufford
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility
>> of
>> > > >the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of
>> each
>> > > >message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or
>> > Yahoo.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>> alpacas@a...
>> > > >http://aaalpacas.com
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > Steve . . . .
>> > >
>> > > TimberLake Farms, Inc.
>> > > Tom Cameron, D.V.M. & Steve Hull, Ph.D.
>> > > Edmond, Oklahoma
>> > >
>> > > A Full Service Alpaca Farm Including Seminars And Consulting
>> > >
>> > > www.timberlakefarms.net
>> > >
>> > > e-mails: mailto:steve@t...
>> > > mailto:tom@t...
>> > >
>> > > Farm Telephone: 405 341-8444
>> > > Farm Cell Telephone: 405 550-3023
>> > > Farm Fax: 405 330-8444
>> > >
>> > > note: opinions made here are not and cannot be construed to be
>> > > specific veterinary advice, diagnosis or treatments. Both Tom
>> and
>> > > Steve strongly suggest always checking with your own
>> veterinarian.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
>> the person
>> > posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in
>> no way
>> > reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
> alpacas@a...
>> > http://aaalpacas.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
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>> >
>> >
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