Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Saturday, May 01, 2010

Re: Re : [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

         I have had several moms nurse others crias--it is great to have xtra moms in a herd.

Tina Travis  

Elkhorn Alpacas

31655 Elkhorn Glen

Warrenton,MO.63383

636-359-0250 / 636-459-8930

traviselkhornalpacas@yahoo.com

www.elkhornalpacas.com

 Alpacas are a rare treasure,

 one that I like to share!!!!




From: "barngirrl@aol.com" <barngirrl@aol.com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, May 2, 2010 1:32:11 AM
Subject: Re: Re : [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

The moms don't let other babies nurse, they rudely push them away.  One piggy baby tries a few moms before going back to his own - I think he's greedy.  LOL
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA
http://www.openherd .com/FarmPage. aspx?Farm= 433

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
.

__,_._,___

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: Re : [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

The moms don't let other babies nurse, they rudely push them away.  One piggy baby tries a few moms before going back to his own - I think he's greedy.  LOL
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA
http://www.openherd.com/FarmPage.aspx?Farm=433

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
.

__,_._,___

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: Re : [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

        Who lets who nurse?  I had 2 black cria and one mom took them both on.It was funny to watch one on each side milking from her.
 

Tina Travis  

Elkhorn Alpacas

31655 Elkhorn Glen

Warrenton,MO.63383

636-359-0250 / 636-459-8930

traviselkhornalpacas@yahoo.com

www.elkhornalpacas.com

 Alpacas are a rare treasure,

 one that I like to share!!!!




From: "barngirrl@aol.com" <barngirrl@aol.com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, May 2, 2010 12:09:30 AM
Subject: Re: Re : [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

I don't know - it must be, because two of my crias this year consistently try to nurse off the wrong mamas and they don't look ANYTHING alike.  LOL
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA
http://www.openherd .com/FarmPage. aspx?Farm= 433
 
============ =========
 
In a message dated 5/1/2010 10:05:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, traviselkhornalpaca s@yahoo.com writes:
       It is amazing,that they remember--would it be smell??
 

Tina Travis  


__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
.

__,_._,___

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: Re : [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

I don't know - it must be, because two of my crias this year consistently try to nurse off the wrong mamas and they don't look ANYTHING alike.  LOL
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA
http://www.openherd.com/FarmPage.aspx?Farm=433
 
=====================
 
In a message dated 5/1/2010 10:05:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, traviselkhornalpacas@yahoo.com writes:
       It is amazing,that they remember--would it be smell??
 

Tina Travis  

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
.

__,_._,___

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re : [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

           It is amazing,that they remember--would it be smell??
 

Tina Travis  

Elkhorn Alpacas

31655 Elkhorn Glen

Warrenton,MO.63383

636-359-0250 / 636-459-8930

traviselkhornalpacas@yahoo.com

www.elkhornalpacas.com

 Alpacas are a rare treasure,

 one that I like to share!!!!




From: "barngirrl@aol.com" <barngirrl@aol.com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, May 1, 2010 11:25:29 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

We got a chance to reunite Gracie, one of our best Suri females with her mother last year.  They hadn't seen each other in 4 years and ran right up to each other and made the neatest sounds.  They DEFINITELY recognized each other.  It was so neat, it brought tears to my eyes.  I'm so glad we were able to do that for Gracie, she has given us several nice crias now and we felt like we owed her.
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA
http://www.openherd .com/FarmPage. aspx?Farm= 433
 
============ =
 
In a message dated 5/1/2010 11:07:39 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, traviselkhornalpaca s@yahoo.com writes:
I have several generations in my girl herd.They have strong family bonds especially the females.When girls are sold and come back for breedings they just fall right back in with mom,sisters, daughters, aunts.It is almost sad to think we seperate them by sale.

Tina Travis  

 

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
.

__,_._,___

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

We got a chance to reunite Gracie, one of our best Suri females with her mother last year.  They hadn't seen each other in 4 years and ran right up to each other and made the neatest sounds.  They DEFINITELY recognized each other.  It was so neat, it brought tears to my eyes.  I'm so glad we were able to do that for Gracie, she has given us several nice crias now and we felt like we owed her.
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA
http://www.openherd.com/FarmPage.aspx?Farm=433
 
=============
 
In a message dated 5/1/2010 11:07:39 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, traviselkhornalpacas@yahoo.com writes:
I have several generations in my girl herd.They have strong family bonds especially the females.When girls are sold and come back for breedings they just fall right back in with mom,sisters,daughters,aunts.It is almost sad to think we seperate them by sale.

Tina Travis  

 

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
.

__,_._,___

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

That breaks my heart, too. I sold a girl last fall, and she has a very good home, but I do hate taking them away from the herd they were born into and grew up in. 


And this old girl had been on the sales list as a companion, but now that she's having some age related challenges, there's no way I'll separate her from the herd she's known for these past 6 or 7 years.

It doesn't get very hot here, usually. Although we did have a major heatwave of triple digit temps last summer, it only lasted a few days. We're lucky to get a full three months of over 80º weather, and spring is generally on the chilly side.


Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece

On May 1, 2010, at 11:07 AM, Tina Travis wrote:


            I can see the good in that--it doesn't get that hot where you are does it? Best wishes with that girl.I do not have any over the age of 12 yet.I bought young animals and have built my herd by holding back my nice females as they were born--I have several generations in my girl herd.They have strong family bonds especially the females.When girls are sold and come back for breedings they just fall right back in with mom,sisters,daughters,aunts.It is almost sad to think we seperate them by sale.

Tina Travis  

Elkhorn Alpacas

31655 Elkhorn Glen

Warrenton,MO.63383

636-359-0250 / 636-459-8930

traviselkhornalpacas@yahoo.com

www.elkhornalpacas.com

 Alpacas are a rare treasure,

 one that I like to share!!!!




From: Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@gmail.com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, May 1, 2010 12:30:27 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

To tell the truth I'm considering not shearing one of my huacayas this year. She's very old and she suffered all winter from the cold. Even at a full year's growth, she's only got 2" Poor old girl. But she's got a great appetite, so she's not ready to go quite yet.



Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece

On Apr 30, 2010, at 8:45 PM, Tina Travis wrote:


              We had a very cold winter stretching my blanket supply to the limit for extended amounts of time which is not normal for us.The A/C is in my trailer and if you ever get stuck in traffic in the middle of summer the A/C could save your alpacas from heat stress.There are many ways to do any one thing and still come out with a very positive outcome.Enough said there is room for all of us in this world and our diffrent views too. Have a nice weekend!!
 

Tina Travis  

Elkhorn Alpacas

31655 Elkhorn Glen

Warrenton,MO. 63383

636-359-0250 / 636-459-8930

traviselkhornalpaca s@yahoo.com

www.elkhornalpacas. com

 Alpacas are a rare treasure,

 one that I like to share!!!!




From: Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@gmail. com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Fri, April 30, 2010 10:11:10 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

Upsets me? Sorry, I don't think I said I was upset.


I just think the practice is unsound. In my mind, putting a blanket on an animal is much more sensible and easier than air conditioning and other cooling practices over and above what we generally do for huacayas in the warm months. 


Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece

On Apr 30, 2010, at 7:13 PM, Tina Travis wrote:


    Sorry it upsets you so much but it is all about management of your herd.Suri's get cold in the winter here and I worry more about the suri's that have been shorn a couple times and the lack of fleece to keep them warm for the winter.
 

Tina Travis  

Elkhorn Alpacas

31655 Elkhorn Glen

Warrenton,MO. 63383

636-359-0250 / 636-459-8930

traviselkhornalpaca s@yahoo.com

www.elkhornalpacas. com

 Alpacas are a rare treasure,

 one that I like to share!!!!




From: Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@gmail. com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Fri, April 30, 2010 8:59:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

I understand the "show expectation" , however, I think it's ridiculous and really a very bad thing. I cannot understand why the show division supports this practice.



Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece

On Apr 30, 2010, at 6:47 PM, Tina Travis wrote:


        Haucayas always,Show suris it is very excepted that they go 2 yrs.as long as you manage them correctly during hot times--Belly shearing goes along way in keeping suris
cool.Been doing it this way for 11 yrs never had heat stress with any of my Pacas. I would never do that with a huacaya.I believe she will end up getting a full cut.My alpacas have shade,water, fans,and soaker hoses to lay on in the heat of the day.I am a full time rancher so I am always here to monitor my animals during the hot times and the very cold times.My trailer has A/C so travel to shows is not an issue either.

Tina Travis  

Elkhorn Alpacas

31655 Elkhorn Glen

Warrenton,MO. 63383

636-359-0250 / 636-459-8930

traviselkhornalpaca s@yahoo.com

www.elkhornalpacas. com

 Alpacas are a rare treasure,

 one that I like to share!!!!




From: Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@gmail. com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Fri, April 30, 2010 8:34:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

It's my opinion that all alpacas, suri or huacaya, should have full body shearing done each and every year.



Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece

On Apr 30, 2010, at 6:27 PM, Tina Travis wrote:


       I have both Huacaya and Suri alpacas have been in the business lots of years---this year one of my most promising show Suri girls ended up with a belly shear gone way wrong!!  I am not sure if I should now have her completely shorn or leave it and see if it grows out to correct it's self by fall,or cut on the perfect side to even it out with messy side??  Anyone know what might work out best.My worst fear is shear her completely but I thought someone might have some good advice?Thanks, T

Tina Travis  

Elkhorn Alpacas

31655 Elkhorn Glen

Warrenton,MO. 63383

636-359-0250 / 636-459-8930

traviselkhornalpaca s@yahoo.com

www.elkhornalpacas. com

 Alpacas are a rare treasure,

 one that I like to share!!!!










  






__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
.

__,_._,___

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

            I can see the good in that--it doesn't get that hot where you are does it? Best wishes with that girl.I do not have any over the age of 12 yet.I bought young animals and have built my herd by holding back my nice females as they were born--I have several generations in my girl herd.They have strong family bonds especially the females.When girls are sold and come back for breedings they just fall right back in with mom,sisters,daughters,aunts.It is almost sad to think we seperate them by sale.

Tina Travis  

Elkhorn Alpacas

31655 Elkhorn Glen

Warrenton,MO.63383

636-359-0250 / 636-459-8930

traviselkhornalpacas@yahoo.com

www.elkhornalpacas.com

 Alpacas are a rare treasure,

 one that I like to share!!!!




From: Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@gmail.com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, May 1, 2010 12:30:27 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

To tell the truth I'm considering not shearing one of my huacayas this year. She's very old and she suffered all winter from the cold. Even at a full year's growth, she's only got 2" Poor old girl. But she's got a great appetite, so she's not ready to go quite yet.



Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece

On Apr 30, 2010, at 8:45 PM, Tina Travis wrote:


              We had a very cold winter stretching my blanket supply to the limit for extended amounts of time which is not normal for us.The A/C is in my trailer and if you ever get stuck in traffic in the middle of summer the A/C could save your alpacas from heat stress.There are many ways to do any one thing and still come out with a very positive outcome.Enough said there is room for all of us in this world and our diffrent views too. Have a nice weekend!!
 

Tina Travis  

Elkhorn Alpacas

31655 Elkhorn Glen

Warrenton,MO. 63383

636-359-0250 / 636-459-8930

traviselkhornalpaca s@yahoo.com

www.elkhornalpacas. com

 Alpacas are a rare treasure,

 one that I like to share!!!!




From: Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@gmail. com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Fri, April 30, 2010 10:11:10 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

Upsets me? Sorry, I don't think I said I was upset.


I just think the practice is unsound. In my mind, putting a blanket on an animal is much more sensible and easier than air conditioning and other cooling practices over and above what we generally do for huacayas in the warm months. 


Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece

On Apr 30, 2010, at 7:13 PM, Tina Travis wrote:


    Sorry it upsets you so much but it is all about management of your herd.Suri's get cold in the winter here and I worry more about the suri's that have been shorn a couple times and the lack of fleece to keep them warm for the winter.
 

Tina Travis  

Elkhorn Alpacas

31655 Elkhorn Glen

Warrenton,MO. 63383

636-359-0250 / 636-459-8930

traviselkhornalpaca s@yahoo.com

www.elkhornalpacas. com

 Alpacas are a rare treasure,

 one that I like to share!!!!




From: Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@gmail. com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Fri, April 30, 2010 8:59:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

I understand the "show expectation" , however, I think it's ridiculous and really a very bad thing. I cannot understand why the show division supports this practice.



Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece

On Apr 30, 2010, at 6:47 PM, Tina Travis wrote:


        Haucayas always,Show suris it is very excepted that they go 2 yrs.as long as you manage them correctly during hot times--Belly shearing goes along way in keeping suris
cool.Been doing it this way for 11 yrs never had heat stress with any of my Pacas. I would never do that with a huacaya.I believe she will end up getting a full cut.My alpacas have shade,water, fans,and soaker hoses to lay on in the heat of the day.I am a full time rancher so I am always here to monitor my animals during the hot times and the very cold times.My trailer has A/C so travel to shows is not an issue either.

Tina Travis  

Elkhorn Alpacas

31655 Elkhorn Glen

Warrenton,MO. 63383

636-359-0250 / 636-459-8930

traviselkhornalpaca s@yahoo.com

www.elkhornalpacas. com

 Alpacas are a rare treasure,

 one that I like to share!!!!




From: Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@gmail. com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Fri, April 30, 2010 8:34:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

It's my opinion that all alpacas, suri or huacaya, should have full body shearing done each and every year.



Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece

On Apr 30, 2010, at 6:27 PM, Tina Travis wrote:


       I have both Huacaya and Suri alpacas have been in the business lots of years---this year one of my most promising show Suri girls ended up with a belly shear gone way wrong!!  I am not sure if I should now have her completely shorn or leave it and see if it grows out to correct it's self by fall,or cut on the perfect side to even it out with messy side??  Anyone know what might work out best.My worst fear is shear her completely but I thought someone might have some good advice?Thanks, T

Tina Travis  

Elkhorn Alpacas

31655 Elkhorn Glen

Warrenton,MO. 63383

636-359-0250 / 636-459-8930

traviselkhornalpaca s@yahoo.com

www.elkhornalpacas. com

 Alpacas are a rare treasure,

 one that I like to share!!!!










  




__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
.

__,_._,___

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

To tell the truth I'm considering not shearing one of my huacayas this year. She's very old and she suffered all winter from the cold. Even at a full year's growth, she's only got 2" Poor old girl. But she's got a great appetite, so she's not ready to go quite yet.



Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece

On Apr 30, 2010, at 8:45 PM, Tina Travis wrote:


              We had a very cold winter stretching my blanket supply to the limit for extended amounts of time which is not normal for us.The A/C is in my trailer and if you ever get stuck in traffic in the middle of summer the A/C could save your alpacas from heat stress.There are many ways to do any one thing and still come out with a very positive outcome.Enough said there is room for all of us in this world and our diffrent views too. Have a nice weekend!!
 

Tina Travis  

Elkhorn Alpacas

31655 Elkhorn Glen

Warrenton,MO.63383

636-359-0250 / 636-459-8930

traviselkhornalpacas@yahoo.com

www.elkhornalpacas.com

 Alpacas are a rare treasure,

 one that I like to share!!!!




From: Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@gmail.com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, April 30, 2010 10:11:10 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

Upsets me? Sorry, I don't think I said I was upset.


I just think the practice is unsound. In my mind, putting a blanket on an animal is much more sensible and easier than air conditioning and other cooling practices over and above what we generally do for huacayas in the warm months. 


Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece

On Apr 30, 2010, at 7:13 PM, Tina Travis wrote:


    Sorry it upsets you so much but it is all about management of your herd.Suri's get cold in the winter here and I worry more about the suri's that have been shorn a couple times and the lack of fleece to keep them warm for the winter.
 

Tina Travis  

Elkhorn Alpacas

31655 Elkhorn Glen

Warrenton,MO. 63383

636-359-0250 / 636-459-8930

traviselkhornalpaca s@yahoo.com

www.elkhornalpacas. com

 Alpacas are a rare treasure,

 one that I like to share!!!!




From: Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@gmail. com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Fri, April 30, 2010 8:59:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

I understand the "show expectation" , however, I think it's ridiculous and really a very bad thing. I cannot understand why the show division supports this practice.



Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece

On Apr 30, 2010, at 6:47 PM, Tina Travis wrote:


        Haucayas always,Show suris it is very excepted that they go 2 yrs.as long as you manage them correctly during hot times--Belly shearing goes along way in keeping suris
cool.Been doing it this way for 11 yrs never had heat stress with any of my Pacas. I would never do that with a huacaya.I believe she will end up getting a full cut.My alpacas have shade,water, fans,and soaker hoses to lay on in the heat of the day.I am a full time rancher so I am always here to monitor my animals during the hot times and the very cold times.My trailer has A/C so travel to shows is not an issue either.

Tina Travis  

Elkhorn Alpacas

31655 Elkhorn Glen

Warrenton,MO. 63383

636-359-0250 / 636-459-8930

traviselkhornalpaca s@yahoo.com

www.elkhornalpacas. com

 Alpacas are a rare treasure,

 one that I like to share!!!!




From: Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@gmail. com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Fri, April 30, 2010 8:34:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Advice

 

It's my opinion that all alpacas, suri or huacaya, should have full body shearing done each and every year.



Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece

On Apr 30, 2010, at 6:27 PM, Tina Travis wrote:


       I have both Huacaya and Suri alpacas have been in the business lots of years---this year one of my most promising show Suri girls ended up with a belly shear gone way wrong!!  I am not sure if I should now have her completely shorn or leave it and see if it grows out to correct it's self by fall,or cut on the perfect side to even it out with messy side??  Anyone know what might work out best.My worst fear is shear her completely but I thought someone might have some good advice?Thanks, T

Tina Travis  

Elkhorn Alpacas

31655 Elkhorn Glen

Warrenton,MO. 63383

636-359-0250 / 636-459-8930

traviselkhornalpaca s@yahoo.com

www.elkhornalpacas. com

 Alpacas are a rare treasure,

 one that I like to share!!!!










  



__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
.

__,_._,___