RE: [AlpacaTalk] Re: LGD with alpaca
Hi all,
Normally, I would not say anything but this is dear to my heart. LGD, no matter what the breed need guidance. We happen to raise maremmas. I have people coming to me telling me that they hear maremmas are better then the rest. My reply is I can tell you horror stories from every breed and heroic stories from every breed. It is the dog that makes the transition to a good guardian. We do not leash train our dogs. They are born in the barn with the animals and as early as they start walking, they are with the livestock. Mom, starts them on patrols around 7-8 weeks with pop. We start placing the pups at 8+ weeks. So far, and I am knocking on wood here, we have had no complains on our pups. What I tell the new owners is to have an escape from the livestock. Feed them where they will not have livestock eating there food. Make sure you are the alpha. This means you rule. Our dogs come when called but do not do the sit, stay etc. They are LGD, not people dogs. If a pup chases or jumps at the livestock, I holler, grab them, roll them over and shake them. I have even been known to growl at them. After this a few times, they know not to do that. I have placed single pups and pups in pairs, all have done well. This pup is 7 months old. He is a teenager pup and he is out of his environment. He does not know these animals or this person. He needs to adjust which is why I don't think he should be in the pen with the alpacas without supervision. He does not know his new owner so he needs to learn, that they are now alpha. If the breeder did not go over these things for new owner, shame on them. They should know that a pup that age is already bonded with the animals he was with and needs to transition to the new herd and owner. Pups at 8- 12 weeks old, are a lot more defenseless and afraid of the new herd until they get use to them. They also depend on the new owners more which makes this transition less apparent to the new owner. A 7 month old is almost full grown in size but not in the head. If you really are not comfortable with this dog, return him. He will not adjust on his own without help. He needs help but not the typical dog come, sit, stay or leash. You need to pen him next to the alpacas to have him get use to the alpacas and when you are with the alpacas, he joins you. Yes, this takes time and patience. If you don't have the time and patience, take him back. Otherwise, no one is happy.
Just my 2 cents, BTW, no I am not an expert by any means but this is my experience over the past 7 years.
Daniel and Peggy Emmerich
EnchantedMeadows Alpacas & Goats
9357 CTY RD O
Wausau WI 54401
715.675.0584
www.enchantedmeadow
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
From: wendy.edwards@
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:58:04 -0700
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: LGD with alpaca
hi Patty - i have to add my two cents worth here - i paid $1200 for a grt pyr who the breeder said was used to llamas and already knew how to work - after one month of hell, i called the breeder and told her the dog didn't fit here, that she harassed my alpacas and i wanted to return her - the breeder wouldn't listen to me and actually stopped taking my calls or emails - we kept her for 9 months, trying everything we could think of (both of us have had dogs all our lives) - we thought the old dog could teach her, until she viciously attacked the old dog and we had to rescue her and finally keep her fenced away from the pyr - she rerused to stay outside and chewed and scratched our front door into shreds - once inside she destroyed our furniture - she destroyed so much of our fences and gear, including our irrigation system that i still haven't been able to afford to replace everything. When she attacked our daughter,carrying her infant son, i had to keep swinging the hoe at the dog until my daugter and i got safely into the house. That was it for me.
I'm not saying she was typical of the grt pyr breed - i hear lots of good stories from pyr owners - that's why i bought one in the first place - but i think the dog was crazy
and i think the breeder knew it. The dog never did stop going after my alpacas - they hated her - i tried taking her in on a leash and she knocked me over to get at them - it took a year for my shoulder to heal
so if the dog doesn' t feel like a good fit for you - listen to your gut feeling.
Wendy
DreamWeaver Alpacas
BC
----- Original Message -----
From: Patty Mattingly
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 5:14 AM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: LGD with alpaca
Chrys,
I hate to add more stress to the situation, but if your gut is telling you
this dog is not right for this job - return him quickly. You are the BEST
person to judge what is working and not working. Two years ago we worked
with a group that adopted and assessed working LGD. They said they had the
"perfect" dog for us. He was almost 2 years old and had been exposed to
alpacas, but was currently living with goats. This group sounded like they
were perfect. They were knowledgeable and experienced and they gave dogs a
second chance and I would not have to put up with any puppy antics. I paid
for him and brought him to our farm. He was there for 8 days and then
attacked my herd. Fortunately, I was home and heard the commotion. I ran
out and he was chasing and biting my largest and fastest male alpaca. I
called the dog's name and he ran to me with his tail wagging. Two of our
alpacas were covered in blood. One was an adult brown suri gelding and the
other was a juvenile white haucaya male. The white male actually wasn't
hurt at all. The blood on him had come from the brown suri. Our brown suri
male did live, but he required months of care and rehabilitation.
People get very protective of the dogs they breed. It is easier to blame
you or your farm set up then to really assess and realize that their dog
they sold you is not right for the job. You bought the dog to give you
peace of mind and to protect the herd. If it doesn't give you peace of
mind, then I would return the dog. I know there are people out there with
wonderful LGD dogs and the dogs are worth their weight in gold, but not
every dog is really suited to guard alpacas.
Patty Mattingly
Nobella Alpacas
"Royal Treatment Reigns"
Leonardtown, MD
(240)925-6959
http://www.nobellaa
----- Original Message -----
From: "chrystella.
To: <AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 4:29 PM
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: LGD with alpaca
> Heather - I am not being critical of your advise. The former owners
> basicly blame me for all of the short comings of this pup. He was not
> even made familiar with a leash. He doesn't understand 'come'. I am
> frustrated beyond belief.
>
> I originally was planning on getting an older dog even if it cost me more.
> I was told by them that it would not be a good idea to bring in an older
> LGD because there would be something wrong with it or they would not be
> getting rid of it. I thought that with a lot of farms downsizing or
> exiting the business due to the economy, it would be a great way to
> provide a mature dog with a herd, especially since they would already be
> familiar with the job.
>
> I just don't know what to do. My area is said to have a coyote problem
> and I have a cria due in May. I have to figure this out quickly.
>
> And seriously thank you for offering your advise, that was one of the
> reasons I joined this site.
>
> --- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
>>
>> My apologies that "train" isn't the right term for use with LGDs, I
>> don't know another term. That's what they use on LGD sites. Any dog
>> will need obedience training. It does need to bond with you and to
>> recognise you as pack leader. Otherwise it has no reason to care
>> about following your commands.
>>
>> You say you don't need more than one LGD. One dog cannot do much
>> against predators like coyotes or packs of roaming neighborhood dogs.
>> If you're guarding against humans, maybe a different breed, but not
>> allowed inside pastures would be better for your situation.
>>
>> I did not recommend another dog just to be a playmate with your dog.
>> Fact is, one dog WILL be very lonely, and one dog will not be able to
>> fully protect against threats. A few years ago, a breeder in the
>> midwest lost their entire herd to a pack of pet dogs despite having
>> multiple LGDs on duty.
>>
>> I am by no means an expert on LGDs. We had one, and he was not a
>> happy single dog. He liked the alpacas well enough, and did a good
>> job keeping raccoons and deer out of pastures. Luckily we never had
>> coyotes or roaming dogs come into pastures.
>>
>> I hope that those who have more experience with LGDs will respond. In
>> the meantime, I do recommend finding LGD discussion groups for more
>> info.
>>
>> Best of luck!
>> Heather
>>
>>
>> On Mar 20, 2009, at 11:32 AM, chrystella.volk wrote:
>>
>> > I appreciate the advise, but I can not justify investing in another
>> > LGD so that this one can have a playmate. I do not need 2 dogs. If
>> > that is the case, I may as well return him for a refund.
>> >
>> > I am also confused with your commenting about training. The former
>> > owner expressly told me when I contacted them about returning the
>> > dog that the term train is not a proper term to use in regards with
>> > an LGD. I have also read that obedience training increases the
>> > human to dog bonding and that it should not be encouraged.
>> >
>> > Chrys
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
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posted by Chaddo at 6:31 PM
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