alpacas: 06/20/09

Re: [AlpacaTalk] BEW

I wouldn't, either, Wendy. I know of a few ranches that are still breeding their true BEW GIRLS with no problems, too.

SUSAN OLSON

Alpaca Loco

Riverside, CA

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] BEW

Everything I have read, including what Andy Merriwether says, is that dark blue or grey eyes are not BEW. So I think there's no reason to geld your boy. At least, not yet. :)

Heather

On Jun 20, 2009, at 9:39 PM, Wendy Edwards wrote:

hi - last year i had a white male born here - his eyes aren't bright blue as i've seen in some BEW but are an odd color, like a dark bluish-gray - they look different in different lights and are hard to describe - but his pupil appears to be rectangular,and from what i understand, this is a characteristic of BEW. - when he was born his nose and lips were bright pink and i wonder if that was an indication of something genetically out of balance.

i read everything i can about BEW as it is a concern to me, but most articles are written in language that is confusing to me as i'm not a scientist - this boy would be in the show ring except for the color of his eyes. - luckily he has exquisite fibre, a very sweet personality and is not deaf. He will be trained as a therapy / companion animal.

i'm having my boy gelded after fly season - and i won't be breeding his parents together again, even though both have dark eyes, well-known bloodlines and no history of BEW that i can find. I am very careful when breeding, and do a lot of research on the different bloodlines - it is really disappointing to know that no matter how careful i am, there are some things beyond my control.
Wendy
DreamWeaver Alpacas
BC

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[AlpacaTalk] BEW

hi - last year i had a white male born here - his eyes aren't bright blue as i've seen in some BEW but are an odd color, like a dark bluish-gray - they look different in different lights and are hard to describe - but his pupil appears to be rectangular,and from what i understand, this is a characteristic of BEW. - when he was born his nose and lips were bright pink and i wonder if that was an indication of something genetically out of balance.

i read everything i can about BEW as it is a concern to me, but most articles are written in language that is confusing to me as i'm not a scientist - this boy would be in the show ring except for the color of his eyes. - luckily he has exquisite fibre, a very sweet personality and is not deaf. He will be trained as a therapy / companion animal.

i'm having my boy gelded after fly season - and i won't be breeding his parents together again, even though both have dark eyes, well-known bloodlines and no history of BEW that i can find. I am very careful when breeding, and do a lot of research on the different bloodlines - it is really disappointing to know that no matter how careful i am, there are some things beyond my control.

Wendy

DreamWeaver Alpacas

BC

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[AlpacaTalk] Re: Newby question

Hi Nan;

Yes, blue eyes are a flaw and a congenital defect that should not be allowed into a breeding program but some people do this anyway.
The reason why blue eyes (or white eyes as it is correctly called) is due the the lack of the pigment Melanin reaching far enough up to the eyes(causing the blue or white eyes), the inner ear of the animal causing deafness and can even cause Choanal Atresia (a bone growth in the nasal cavity of the cria, preventing it from breathing upon being born and it dying not long after because it can't breath), wrye face, etc. Another thing about blue eyes is if it is in the genetics, it can never be gotten rid of and actually may breed through as a dominant trait. My mom wrote a very informative and thorough article on this subject after doing much research and talking to many vets.

There was a very highly regarded and extremely well known judge who was judging whites one year at a large show. He proceeded to dismiss every blue eyed white out of the ring before judging the class. This did not make some people happy, but posed as a wake up call for some who had thought of doing this or having this in their program. Does it stop people from breeding them? No. But some have made different decisions when it comes to the background of the animals they have or choose to purchase.

Hope this helps you...

Maegan Blessing
Cedar Grove Alpacas, LLC.

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Newby question

Nothing in a gelding is a flaw! : ) Just love on him and love that fleece! Blue-eyed whites can tend to throw a lethal white gene but I've known many great blue-eyed whites (BEW's) that didn't. Have fun with them and spend as much time taming them as you can, that is my best advice.

SUSAN OLSON

Alpaca Loco

Riverside, CA

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Help, I need advice on replacing my girls after the dog attack.

Hi Wendy;

Glad you made that point. We have 2 bolivian males. One is a while 2x Grand Champ there our of Canada (MMR Sundown out of the Sky Pilot line) and he does very well for us. Ver impressive babies with his grand cria taking ribbons and championships. He shears up to 12 pounds of fleece a year, 8 of that is normally his prime fiber. He is WHITE and he is crimpy, dense, bright and impressive, and the sweetest personality. We also have a DSG herdsire out of Bolivian Black Thunder lines. He isn't huge but he is also very impressive and the one baby he did sire was a stunner. Blue black, full face and crimp as soon as he popped out and dried off. I wouldn't trade these two boys to save my life. We also have full Chileans as our foundation stock in both sires and dams, not to mention a couple peruvian lines, one being the renouned Bueno.

Maegan Blessing

Business Manager

Cedar Grove Alpacas, LLC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wendy Edwards" <wendy.edwards@shaw.ca>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:36:52 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Help, I need advice on replacing my girls after the dog attack.

hi Morgen - i can personally speak for Acero Marka's alpacas - i have 8 animals from the Acero Marka's Rockamundo bloodline - my white herdsires throw color, and the fleece is always amazing - i had a little boy born two days ago and his fleece is already 4 inches long -

I also have a full Bolivian herdsire, Zachary B, son of Acero Marka's Bernard and Acero Marka's Frivolous, again amazing fibre. But i love my Chilean girls (foundation stock) and my Peruvian bloodlines (mostly PPeruvian Guellermo and CPeruvian Ultima) too.

It is easy to research the Acero Marka's bloodlines and the specific animals that catch your attention.

Good luck with it

Wendy

DreamWeaver Alpacas

BC

----- Original Message -----

From: dreamwoodalpacas

To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 3:31 PM

Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Help, I need advice on replacing my girls after the dog attack.

Hi Jim,

I understand all that. Perhaps I should have been more specific--it is easier to research alpacas that were shipped through Peru as they kept good records and all are easily searchable online. Most of these listings include histograms and the evaluators comments. There is nothing like this I have been able to find for Chilean and Bolivian. Accordingly, I am asking who some of the outstanding Chileans and Bolivians are and what are they known for. So far I've heard to look for Acero Marka, The Silversmith, Rolling Thunder and Patagonia, though other than the Silversmith, the others are farms and I'm sure have good and bad, so again, I can't get a baseline, though at least I have a start.

Thanks,
Morgen

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, jim gregoryk <jimg2312@...> wrote:
>
> Morgen,
>
> This always make Peruvian Breeders mad, but being called peruvian only means that it is the country it was exported from. Exporter/Buyer buy from all over South American and then sell from their home port. Yes I have been there and talked with these people and seen the animals at the ports and in the wild(so to speak as all aplacas are really domesticated and owned by someone). Having a pure peruvian line simply means that all were sold out of the Port(s) in Peru.
>
> Alpaca from Chile, Bolivia and elsewhere are just as high quality as any.. Right now it seem to be the fad especially in the east to have peruvian lines.
>
> I have my animals for their fiber and buy only animals with superior quality fiber and they have come from all over and from both Canadian and American registries. I have never had a problem ever with selling their gorgeous fiber or the offspring.
>
> Jim
>
> --- On Thu, 6/18/09, dreamwoodalpacas <faileflys@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: dreamwoodalpacas <faileflys@...>
> Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Help, I need advice on replacing my girls after the dog attack.
> To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 6:55 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> So I have a question, I find that doing research on Peruvians is much easier than Chileans or Bolivians, I guess because of the hype. Who are some of the outstanding Chileans and Bolivians and what are they known for?
>
> Thanks,
> Morgen
> Dreamwood Farm
> Claverack, NY
>

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Help, I need advice on replacing my girls after the dog attack.

Morgen;

If you are looking for a base line, you need to look at the bloodlines of these animals such as Rolling Thunder's animals who, like Allison pointed out, were based OUT OF Bolivian lines. While Alpacas de la Patagonia is a farm, they also have integrated lines from other farms, not just their own, though most are their animals from their farm in Chile. If you are looking to compare Chileans, Bolivians, and Peruvians to one another, look at the bloodlines of the animals we have mentioned. You will find information about these animals just like any others providing the breeders have put it up and you know where and how to look for this information. The histograms are provided by the breeders obviously, and I am not sure what comments you speak of other than those made by judges at shows, the breeders of the animals, etc. I may be confused as to what the point of you asking for the names is, how you are going about looking for them and what you are looking for on them. If you are not framiliar with anything about the Chileans or Bolivians, it is going to pose as a challenge I would imagine. If you would like or need help, let me know exactly what it is you are looking for, and I would be more than happy to help you out. I have been doing this for 14 years when it comes to getting the information I want to find.

However, like Allison pointed out, and was very much a "couldn't be any more true" statement, when they brought in the peruvians, they were made out to be much more than they really were. The concept that the peruvians are superior due to more advanced importation screening is not true at all. They used the same rules, regulations and screening with the Chileans and Bolivians that they did with the Peruvians. The only difference was they were farm more particular on what they were looking for because they were the last imports. Otherwise, all paperwork and rules were the way they were when they started.

Maegan

----- Original Message -----
From: "dreamwoodalpacas" <faileflys@yahoo.com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 3:31:55 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Help, I need advice on replacing my girls after the dog attack.

Hi Jim,

I understand all that. Perhaps I should have been more specific--it is easier to research alpacas that were shipped through Peru as they kept good records and all are easily searchable online. Most of these listings include histograms and the evaluators comments. There is nothing like this I have been able to find for Chilean and Bolivian. Accordingly, I am asking who some of the outstanding Chileans and Bolivians are and what are they known for. So far I've heard to look for Acero Marka, The Silversmith, Rolling Thunder and Patagonia, though other than the Silversmith, the others are farms and I'm sure have good and bad, so again, I can't get a baseline, though at least I have a start.

Thanks,
Morgen

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, jim gregoryk <jimg2312@...> wrote:
>
> Morgen,
>
> This always make Peruvian Breeders mad, but being called peruvian only means that it is the country it was exported from. Exporter/Buyer buy from all over South American and then sell from their home port. Yes I have been there and talked with these people and seen the animals at the ports and in the wild(so to speak as all aplacas are really domesticated and owned by someone). Having a pure peruvian line simply means that all were sold out of the Port(s) in Peru.
>
> Alpaca from Chile, Bolivia and elsewhere are just as high quality as any.. Right now it seem to be the fad especially in the east to have peruvian lines.
>
> I have my animals for their fiber and buy only animals with superior quality fiber and they have come from all over and from both Canadian and American registries. I have never had a problem ever with selling their gorgeous fiber or the offspring.
>
> Jim
>
> --- On Thu, 6/18/09, dreamwoodalpacas <faileflys@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: dreamwoodalpacas <faileflys@...>
> Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Help, I need advice on replacing my girls after the dog attack.
> To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 6:55 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> So I have a question, I find that doing research on Peruvians is much easier than Chileans or Bolivians, I guess because of the hype. Who are some of the outstanding Chileans and Bolivians and what are they known for?
>
> Thanks,
> Morgen
> Dreamwood Farm
> Claverack, NY
>

__._,_.___

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Help, I need advice on replacing my girls after the dog attack.

hi Morgen - i can personally speak for Acero Marka's alpacas - i have 8 animals from the Acero Marka's Rockamundo bloodline - my white herdsires throw color, and the fleece is always amazing - i had a little boy born two days ago and his fleece is already 4 inches long -

I also have a full Bolivian herdsire, Zachary B, son of Acero Marka's Bernard and Acero Marka's Frivolous, again amazing fibre. But i love my Chilean girls (foundation stock) and my Peruvian bloodlines (mostly PPeruvian Guellermo and CPeruvian Ultima) too.

It is easy to research the Acero Marka's bloodlines and the specific animals that catch your attention.

Good luck with it

Wendy

DreamWeaver Alpacas

BC

----- Original Message -----

From: dreamwoodalpacas

To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 3:31 PM

Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Help, I need advice on replacing my girls after the dog attack.

Hi Jim,

I understand all that. Perhaps I should have been more specific--it is easier to research alpacas that were shipped through Peru as they kept good records and all are easily searchable online. Most of these listings include histograms and the evaluators comments. There is nothing like this I have been able to find for Chilean and Bolivian. Accordingly, I am asking who some of the outstanding Chileans and Bolivians are and what are they known for. So far I've heard to look for Acero Marka, The Silversmith, Rolling Thunder and Patagonia, though other than the Silversmith, the others are farms and I'm sure have good and bad, so again, I can't get a baseline, though at least I have a start.

Thanks,
Morgen

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, jim gregoryk <jimg2312@...> wrote:
>
> Morgen,
>
> This always make Peruvian Breeders mad, but being called peruvian only means that it is the country it was exported from. Exporter/Buyer buy from all over South American and then sell from their home port. Yes I have been there and talked with these people and seen the animals at the ports and in the wild(so to speak as all aplacas are really domesticated and owned by someone). Having a pure peruvian line simply means that all were sold out of the Port(s) in Peru.
>
> Alpaca from Chile, Bolivia and elsewhere are just as high quality as any.. Right now it seem to be the fad especially in the east to have peruvian lines.
>
> I have my animals for their fiber and buy only animals with superior quality fiber and they have come from all over and from both Canadian and American registries. I have never had a problem ever with selling their gorgeous fiber or the offspring.
>
> Jim
>
> --- On Thu, 6/18/09, dreamwoodalpacas <faileflys@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: dreamwoodalpacas <faileflys@...>
> Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Help, I need advice on replacing my girls after the dog attack.
> To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 6:55 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> So I have a question, I find that doing research on Peruvians is much easier than Chileans or Bolivians, I guess because of the hype. Who are some of the outstanding Chileans and Bolivians and what are they known for?
>
> Thanks,
> Morgen
> Dreamwood Farm
> Claverack, NY
>

__._,_.___

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[AlpacaTalk] Newby question

OK, Here is an ignorant question for you: Blue eyes are a flaw? I
have two beautiful ( to my eye, but I know nothing) Suri boys, both
white and one has blue in his eyes. I LOVE the blue, but was not
aware that this is a flaw.

I was given these boys from a wonderful breeder for free as pets, and
thus expected her culls, and they will be neutered and not bred, so
they will not be spreading their genetics around. These are family
pets, I want to use the fiber, when I find the time... LOL.

Thanks for informing me!

Nan

--
Nan Nickson
Valhalla Run
Saranac, Michigan

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler."
- Albert Einstein

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