Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: AlpacaTalk on FaceBook
Obviously. I think everyone knows this. And in light of the fact that there are indeed so many other discussion groups out there, I see no reason that there should not be one that supports "no-kill".
And let us keep in mind that many alpaca farms, and well-known ones at that, have been culling for years.
They just don't speak openly about it...
Dede Crout
Dragonfly Alpacas LLC
Marydel, MDSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom: <don@fleecefields.com>Sender: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.comDate: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 15:24:12 -0800ReplyTo: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] Re: AlpacaTalk on FaceBookHeather:
While many of us are slow to address the need for a cull market, it is a real part of the alpaca industry now and a growing part going forward. Many breeders and even pet owners are facing the challenge of what to do with their animals when they reach an age where the fiber they produce is coarse, short, and generally unmarketable. Add to that, for those who are in the business instead of keeping alpacas as pets, the IRS requirement is that all farm operations are to exhibit a profit motive. It is difficult to explain to the auditor how keeping that 13-year old, 38 micron, 2-inch staple length gelded male is going to contribute to the farm's profit.
The discussion of how to determine what animals need to be culled, how to cull, humane ways to deal with culls and the like are a very important part of talking about the livestock we raise. For many, perhaps most of us, alpacas are not pets and we aren't a rescue; they are a business (but we do really enjoy and respect our alpacas). If AlpacaTalk is just about raising pet alpacas, that's find. Perhaps the name should be changed to AlpacaPets. If it's for talking about the business of raising camelid livestock, then all pertinent topics should be equally welcome.
Alpacas are not now and never were a no-kill livestock. There is no such thing as a no-kill livestock. The horse industry tried that and all it did was move the slaughter to Mexico and resulted in thousands of animals getting freed on public lands. I've been told they just reversed the no-kill rules for the US and horses will once again be able to be slaughtered here where they can be handled in a more humane manner.
Don Stanwyck, Carnation, WA
From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Zeleny
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 2:13 PM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: AlpacaTalk on FaceBook
Don,
I think that most of us know that some people are slaughtering and eating alpaca. I also think that most of us, especially those on this group, are against it. I don't want to see advice on how to kill an alpaca, or where to take it to be slaughtered or cut and packed. If someone wants to do that, they're on their own, in my opinion. Chances are, they're probably hunters and already know where to go. I absolutely do not want AlpacaTalk to encourage or support slaughter of alpacas. The easiest way to prevent the so called "need" for slaughter is to breed carefully and responsibly. Same with cats and dogs. If people would not allow cats and dogs to breed freely, there would not be the problem with high euthanization rates in the US.
As far as what to do with an alpaca that has died but not going to necropsy, I think maybe some people would like some advice. And I feel that information should be freely shared.
Heather
Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon
Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
On Jan 12, 2012, at 2:01 PM, <don@fleecefields.com> <don@fleecefields.com> wrote:
Barb Nelson Kifer: Thanks for adding me,Heather.. I have so much to learn and share... Just lets not discuss meat and/or composting paca bodies?
Heather Zeleny Absolutely, I do not want to entertain those in support of alpaca slaughter.
I don't know how to read the exchange above (copy/pasted from the facebook page) except to say some topics will be banned. Will you assure us all that ALL topics related to alpaca ownership and the industry will be welcomed on the AlpacaTalk facebook page?
Don Stanwyck, Carnation, WA
From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Heather Zeleny
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 1:40 PM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: AlpacaTalk on FaceBook
Where do you see that members will be kicked out for discussing any topic?
Heather
Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon
Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
On Jan 12, 2012, at 9:33 AM, <don@fleecefields.com> <don@fleecefields.com> wrote:
I went to the link but based on the first thing I saw there I'm concerned that the AlpacaTalk facebook group is going to kick out anyone who mentions alpaca slaughter. This is a very important topic to our industry and not one that is going to go away. While I'm not interested in dwelling on it I'd like to know up front whether people will be allowed to discuss it if the topic comes up on the facebook group.
Trading alpaca recipes might be a bit much for some people.
--don stanwyck, carnation, wa
From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lysa Grant
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 8:54 AM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: AlpacaTalk on FaceBook
Try this link instead
posted by Chaddo at 4:50 PM
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