Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Female fiber/pet animals wanted

Hello everyone,

Now that is a shame that you will not be posting any more to this
group. I have watched this thread with great interest. Your questions
and the responses you have received have highlighted just how easily we
mis-communicate with each other and email is notorious for these
misunderstandings.

However, it is a great shame that you took offence at the postings in
reply to yours, since from my perspective they did not seem to be rude
(apart from Elwin's last posting, which was blunt and unecessarily
rude), but rather tried to convey the sense of seriousness, and the
importance of integrity and responsibility that alpaca breeders/owners
feel for their alpaca, who are indeed a very special animal. If you
remember how you feel about your sheep, enough to travel 200 miles in
the night, then you will have some measure of the strength of feeling in
the alpaca world, for alpaca. Every new alpaca enquiry must be met with
questions about intended care, breeding, etc., and the environment and
future into which they sell their alpaca. I might add this is
particularly important for the pet market, since animals and their care
can easily disappear from sight without an idea of the welfare they
might receive. Realistically speaking, the world is full of hidden
cruelties and human blindness.

Every breeder who sells animals in the alpaca world carries and holds a
responsibility not only to the animals, but to the new owners, who will
need considerable support and advice when setting out on this road. The
fundamental importance of the right animals going to the right owner,
for their intended use (breeding or otherwise), should not have to be
justified, but simply understood as the breeders right to question, to
assess and to determine the best possible outcome, for the animals, the
potential new owners and the alpaca 'industry' (I hate that word) as a
whole.

If you were to visit a rescue centre for dogs and want an animal to take
home with you, there would be questions and a vetting process that takes
place to ensure that your intentions and capabilities are such that the
match would be a happy one for you and especially for the animal. I am
left feeling puzzled then, about your quickness to take offence. There
really was no need, although you may want to think about that, as I am
left thinking about it and asking myself - 'if there is a fence around
you that keeps the questions of breeders at bay and fends them off, then
how is a breeder going to feel safe selling animals to you?' The alpaca
world is about openness, helpfulness and sharing the joy in these
particular animals as they are so uniquely special in many ways.

It might instead be more fruitful to have the viewpoint of 'learning'
and listen to the experience of those and the concerns of those who were
only trying to 'question', and ascertain your intent. Perhaps a little
clumsily in some cases, but nevertheless as a right to protect and
inform you, so that you are better able to make your choices about which
kind of female you are looking for and whether your original ideas about
it might need to change in the light of new learning and the shared
experience of those who have animals to sell, who have the
responsibility and the right to question you.

You may not even read this of course if you have already 'left' this
group, but the breeders and alpaca owners will read it, so all is not
lost. Remember your right to ask good questions, but perhaps remember
too that 'how' you ask your questions and what questions you ask are
important, and that email is a very bad medium for conveying the meaning
behind your words.

Best Wishes to all
Amanda Poyner
Barton Alpacas
Somerset, England
Raritan Way Farm wrote:

>First of all this will be our last post to this site. Now I never said I wanted somebody to give me anything for FREE I dont know were you got that idea And I was under the belief that here in the USA that when you bought and paid for something it was yours to do with as you wish. Thanks for your time I'm intitled to my opinion as you are yours.
>
>Heather Zeleny - West Wind Alpacas <westwindalpacas@comcast.net> wrote: Well said!
>
>Heather
>
>--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Elwin Bagley" <Gapacaman@t...> wrote:
>
>
>>Robert and Tina; I wish to join the other careing members of this
>>group in apologizing for appearing to be hostile.
>>
>>I say again, You know that you are caring and honest, You know that
>>you will treat all you animals well has you have proved in the past.
>>But, you are not in control of the future. You cannot control what
>>will happen to the alpacas that you are buying if something should
>>go wrong.
>>I beleive that your motives are honest, but I must continue to watch
>>over my alpacas that I consider a gift of God.
>>I tried to make a point and apoloize by telling about my lame female
>>alpaca that I cannot give away because she can still be bred, but my
>>vet and I think that she should not be bred anymore.
>>I will try to explain in detail just why I will not, and most
>>responsible alpaca owners will not sell a breeding female to you and
>>beleive your statement that you do not intend to breed her.
>>Suppose I gave you my pet, and I mean gentle pet female who has very
>>good fiber and a lame leg.
>>Then you had financial reverses and had to leave your farm and sell
>>or give away all you animals.
>>Almost any new owner of my lame female could consult with many vets
>>who would say that she is healthy enough for breeding, in fact
>>a vet and alpaca owner has told me that she is healthy enough for
>>breeding.
>>Now the scenario unfolds to find the new owenr of my lame dam in
>>control.
>>They decide to breed her and she has three more prize crias, then
>>they decide to sell her to a start up know nothing farm and she has
>>three more crias.
>>When does the cruelty (IMHO) stop??
>>
>>Now, I think that you should stop feeling hurt and thank all the
>>honest careing people in this group for a lesson learned.
>>
>>Elwin Bagley
>>www.windyhillalpacafarm.com
>>
>>
>>--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Raritan Way Farm
>><llama20042004@y...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>My husband and I are honest folks. We are both from farm familes
>>>
>>>
>>and come from families where a handshake and your word was all that
>>was needed. So you see we are well aware all the care animals
>>require.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Recently we had a premature lamb born that was going to need
>>>
>>>
>>more care than we could provide for her. We drove 200 miles down
>>and 200 miles back to take her to a lady who raises baby lambs so
>>she would have a greater chance of survival. We didn't make a dime
>>on her. absolutely nothing. But it didn't matter she needed to be
>>cared for. This was on a Sunday night and we both had to be up for
>>work early Monday morning. Alot of people would have just let her
>>die. So you see my husband and I are caring devoted animal people.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Radched@a... wrote:
>>> In a message dated 12/18/2005 3:07:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>>>llama20042004@y... writes:
>>>I do not understand your motives for being hostile towards perhaps
>>>
>>>
>>a future
>>
>>
>>>client.
>>> I do have the money to invest in other "big money" alpacas
>>>
>>>
>>should we choose
>>
>>
>>>too.
>>> Too bad you will never know if you could have been the person we
>>>
>>>
>>purchased
>>
>>
>>>them from.
>>>I don't think anyone was trying to be hostile or make you feel
>>>
>>>
>>unwelcome. I
>>
>>
>>>have heard in the past that people have persued non-registered (or
>>>
>>>
>>Canadian
>>
>>
>>>registered) females with the intent of breeding them and
>>>
>>>
>>registering the crias
>>
>>
>>>so they can sell them for the market value. It can't be done with
>>>
>>>
>>ARI - the
>>
>>
>>>registry is closed. Canada does have a "breed up" program where
>>>
>>>
>>you can bred an
>>
>>
>>>unregistered female with a registered male, and eventually get the
>>>
>>>
>>future
>>
>>
>>>offspring to be 15/16th "pure" and then they are registerable with
>>>
>>>
>>their
>>
>>
>>>registry. We just want to make sure that is clear, not
>>>
>>>
>>necessarily aimed at you, but
>>
>>
>>>at anyone who might try to do it in the future.
>>>
>>>Heidi Christensen
>>>Graham WA
>>>
>>>
>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> SPONSORED LINKS
>>> Alpaca Alpaca breeders West wind inn Farm animal
>>>
>>>
>>Real estate farming Farming organic
>>
>>
>>>
>>>---------------------------------
>>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit your group "AlpacaTalk" on the web.
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>> AlpacaTalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>>>
>>>
>>Service.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>---------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Raritan Way Farm
>>> Robert and Tina Moore
>>> 435 Hwy 327
>>> Lebanon Ky, 40033
>>> lama20042004@yahoo,com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>>>http://mail.yahoo.com
>>>
>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Alpaca Alpaca breeders West wind inn Farm animal Real estate farming Farming organic
>
>---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "AlpacaTalk" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> AlpacaTalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Raritan Way Farm
> Robert and Tina Moore
> 435 Hwy 327
> Lebanon Ky, 40033
> lama20042004@yahoo,com
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[AlpacaTalk] Re: Female fiber/pet animals wanted

I'm sorry you feel this way. But I hope you can at least appreciate
that we also want only the best for our alpacas, even after a sale.
And we do feel that if a female is not breeding quality, she should
not be bred, even for pet purposes. There is an option to change an
animal to "Non-Breeder" status on their registration, but that
wouldn't prevent someone from breeding them anyway. They just wouldn't
be able to register the offspring. If someone bred a non-breeder I'm
guessing they wouldn't care about registering the cria so that's a
moot point.

Rita, I truly don't think anyone was hostile (up until the last post
by Elwin. sorry elwin, I think it was a bit rude). And I don't know
who first mentioned the word "free" but in the eyes of alpaca
breeders, fiber animals are as good as free. I know my mom has given
away fiber boys, and I gave away a 2 year old male with 18.9 microns
(at 2 years) the sale of his dam.

So if you want free fiber males, they are out there by the
trailerload! But breeding females? Sorry, you won't find them.
However, I have seen quite a few CLAA registered breeding females for
nearly (ARI registered) fiber prices on AlpacaNation. Of course you'll
have to pay for transport from Canada, border fees, vet fees...

And to your point that this is America and you can do what you wish
with your own property... this is true. And this is why we don't want
to sell fiber quality females. Someone may well breed them and we'll
end up with a whole lot of non-registered animals with bad physical
characteristics of one sort or another running around the country.
Uninformed people will say, I can have this alpaca for $500, why
should I spend $10,000 or more for that one just because it's ARI
registered? There is a reason one is ARI registerd and the other is not.

Heather Zeleny
West Wind Alpacas
1150 Darlene Ln. #199
Eugene, OR, 97401

voice: 541.868.6976

http://www.westwindalpacas.com/
http://www.alpacanation.com/westwind.asp

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Raritan Way Farm
<llama20042004@y...> wrote:
>
> First of all this will be our last post to this site. Now I never
said I wanted somebody to give me anything for FREE I dont know were
you got that idea And I was under the belief that here in the USA that
when you bought and paid for something it was yours to do with as you
wish. Thanks for your time I'm intitled to my opinion as you are yours.

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Female fiber/pet animals wanted

Thank you for an educational exchange.
Please don't let the door hit you in the back as you leave.
We would not want your brains to be hurt any more.
Elwin Bagley
www.windyhillalpacafarm.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Raritan Way Farm
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Female fiber/pet animals wanted

First of all this will be our last post to this site. Now I never said I wanted somebody to give me anything for FREE I dont know were you got that idea And I was under the belief that here in the USA that when you bought and paid for something it was yours to do with as you wish. Thanks for your time I'm intitled to my opinion as you are yours.

Heather Zeleny - West Wind Alpacas <westwindalpacas@comcast.net> wrote: Well said!

Heather

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Elwin Bagley" <Gapacaman@t...> wrote:
>
> Robert and Tina; I wish to join the other careing members of this
> group in apologizing for appearing to be hostile.
>
> I say again, You know that you are caring and honest, You know that
> you will treat all you animals well has you have proved in the past.
> But, you are not in control of the future. You cannot control what
> will happen to the alpacas that you are buying if something should
> go wrong.
> I beleive that your motives are honest, but I must continue to watch
> over my alpacas that I consider a gift of God.
> I tried to make a point and apoloize by telling about my lame female
> alpaca that I cannot give away because she can still be bred, but my
> vet and I think that she should not be bred anymore.
> I will try to explain in detail just why I will not, and most
> responsible alpaca owners will not sell a breeding female to you and
> beleive your statement that you do not intend to breed her.
> Suppose I gave you my pet, and I mean gentle pet female who has very
> good fiber and a lame leg.
> Then you had financial reverses and had to leave your farm and sell
> or give away all you animals.
> Almost any new owner of my lame female could consult with many vets
> who would say that she is healthy enough for breeding, in fact
> a vet and alpaca owner has told me that she is healthy enough for
> breeding.
> Now the scenario unfolds to find the new owenr of my lame dam in
> control.
> They decide to breed her and she has three more prize crias, then
> they decide to sell her to a start up know nothing farm and she has
> three more crias.
> When does the cruelty (IMHO) stop??
>
> Now, I think that you should stop feeling hurt and thank all the
> honest careing people in this group for a lesson learned.
>
> Elwin Bagley
> www.windyhillalpacafarm.com
>
>
> --- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Raritan Way Farm
> <llama20042004@y...> wrote:
> >
> > My husband and I are honest folks. We are both from farm familes
> and come from families where a handshake and your word was all that
> was needed. So you see we are well aware all the care animals
> require.
> >
> > Recently we had a premature lamb born that was going to need
> more care than we could provide for her. We drove 200 miles down
> and 200 miles back to take her to a lady who raises baby lambs so
> she would have a greater chance of survival. We didn't make a dime
> on her. absolutely nothing. But it didn't matter she needed to be
> cared for. This was on a Sunday night and we both had to be up for
> work early Monday morning. Alot of people would have just let her
> die. So you see my husband and I are caring devoted animal people.
> >
> >
> >
> > Radched@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 12/18/2005 3:07:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > llama20042004@y... writes:
> > I do not understand your motives for being hostile towards perhaps
> a future
> > client.
> > I do have the money to invest in other "big money" alpacas
> should we choose
> > too.
> > Too bad you will never know if you could have been the person we
> purchased
> > them from.
> > I don't think anyone was trying to be hostile or make you feel
> unwelcome. I
> > have heard in the past that people have persued non-registered (or
> Canadian
> > registered) females with the intent of breeding them and
> registering the crias
> > so they can sell them for the market value. It can't be done with
> ARI - the
> > registry is closed. Canada does have a "breed up" program where
> you can bred an
> > unregistered female with a registered male, and eventually get the
> future
> > offspring to be 15/16th "pure" and then they are registerable with
> their
> > registry. We just want to make sure that is clear, not
> necessarily aimed at you, but
> > at anyone who might try to do it in the future.
> >
> > Heidi Christensen
> > Graham WA
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Alpaca Alpaca breeders West wind inn Farm animal
> Real estate farming Farming organic
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> > Visit your group "AlpacaTalk" on the web.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > AlpacaTalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Raritan Way Farm
> > Robert and Tina Moore
> > 435 Hwy 327
> > Lebanon Ky, 40033
> > lama20042004@yahoo,com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

SPONSORED LINKS
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---------------------------------

Raritan Way Farm
Robert and Tina Moore
435 Hwy 327
Lebanon Ky, 40033
lama20042004@yahoo,com

__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Female fiber/pet animals wanted

First of all this will be our last post to this site. Now I never said I wanted somebody to give me anything for FREE I dont know were you got that idea And I was under the belief that here in the USA that when you bought and paid for something it was yours to do with as you wish. Thanks for your time I'm intitled to my opinion as you are yours.

Heather Zeleny - West Wind Alpacas <westwindalpacas@comcast.net> wrote: Well said!

Heather

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Elwin Bagley" <Gapacaman@t...> wrote:
>
> Robert and Tina; I wish to join the other careing members of this
> group in apologizing for appearing to be hostile.
>
> I say again, You know that you are caring and honest, You know that
> you will treat all you animals well has you have proved in the past.
> But, you are not in control of the future. You cannot control what
> will happen to the alpacas that you are buying if something should
> go wrong.
> I beleive that your motives are honest, but I must continue to watch
> over my alpacas that I consider a gift of God.
> I tried to make a point and apoloize by telling about my lame female
> alpaca that I cannot give away because she can still be bred, but my
> vet and I think that she should not be bred anymore.
> I will try to explain in detail just why I will not, and most
> responsible alpaca owners will not sell a breeding female to you and
> beleive your statement that you do not intend to breed her.
> Suppose I gave you my pet, and I mean gentle pet female who has very
> good fiber and a lame leg.
> Then you had financial reverses and had to leave your farm and sell
> or give away all you animals.
> Almost any new owner of my lame female could consult with many vets
> who would say that she is healthy enough for breeding, in fact
> a vet and alpaca owner has told me that she is healthy enough for
> breeding.
> Now the scenario unfolds to find the new owenr of my lame dam in
> control.
> They decide to breed her and she has three more prize crias, then
> they decide to sell her to a start up know nothing farm and she has
> three more crias.
> When does the cruelty (IMHO) stop??
>
> Now, I think that you should stop feeling hurt and thank all the
> honest careing people in this group for a lesson learned.
>
> Elwin Bagley
> www.windyhillalpacafarm.com
>
>
> --- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Raritan Way Farm
> <llama20042004@y...> wrote:
> >
> > My husband and I are honest folks. We are both from farm familes
> and come from families where a handshake and your word was all that
> was needed. So you see we are well aware all the care animals
> require.
> >
> > Recently we had a premature lamb born that was going to need
> more care than we could provide for her. We drove 200 miles down
> and 200 miles back to take her to a lady who raises baby lambs so
> she would have a greater chance of survival. We didn't make a dime
> on her. absolutely nothing. But it didn't matter she needed to be
> cared for. This was on a Sunday night and we both had to be up for
> work early Monday morning. Alot of people would have just let her
> die. So you see my husband and I are caring devoted animal people.
> >
> >
> >
> > Radched@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 12/18/2005 3:07:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > llama20042004@y... writes:
> > I do not understand your motives for being hostile towards perhaps
> a future
> > client.
> > I do have the money to invest in other "big money" alpacas
> should we choose
> > too.
> > Too bad you will never know if you could have been the person we
> purchased
> > them from.
> > I don't think anyone was trying to be hostile or make you feel
> unwelcome. I
> > have heard in the past that people have persued non-registered (or
> Canadian
> > registered) females with the intent of breeding them and
> registering the crias
> > so they can sell them for the market value. It can't be done with
> ARI - the
> > registry is closed. Canada does have a "breed up" program where
> you can bred an
> > unregistered female with a registered male, and eventually get the
> future
> > offspring to be 15/16th "pure" and then they are registerable with
> their
> > registry. We just want to make sure that is clear, not
> necessarily aimed at you, but
> > at anyone who might try to do it in the future.
> >
> > Heidi Christensen
> > Graham WA
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Alpaca Alpaca breeders West wind inn Farm animal
> Real estate farming Farming organic
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> > Visit your group "AlpacaTalk" on the web.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > AlpacaTalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Raritan Way Farm
> > Robert and Tina Moore
> > 435 Hwy 327
> > Lebanon Ky, 40033
> > lama20042004@yahoo,com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

SPONSORED LINKS
Alpaca Alpaca breeders West wind inn Farm animal Real estate farming Farming organic

---------------------------------
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Visit your group "AlpacaTalk" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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---------------------------------

Raritan Way Farm
Robert and Tina Moore
435 Hwy 327
Lebanon Ky, 40033
lama20042004@yahoo,com

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[AlpacaTalk] Re: Female fiber/pet animals wanted

Well said!

Heather

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Elwin Bagley" <Gapacaman@t...> wrote:
>
> Robert and Tina; I wish to join the other careing members of this
> group in apologizing for appearing to be hostile.
>
> I say again, You know that you are caring and honest, You know that
> you will treat all you animals well has you have proved in the past.
> But, you are not in control of the future. You cannot control what
> will happen to the alpacas that you are buying if something should
> go wrong.
> I beleive that your motives are honest, but I must continue to watch
> over my alpacas that I consider a gift of God.
> I tried to make a point and apoloize by telling about my lame female
> alpaca that I cannot give away because she can still be bred, but my
> vet and I think that she should not be bred anymore.
> I will try to explain in detail just why I will not, and most
> responsible alpaca owners will not sell a breeding female to you and
> beleive your statement that you do not intend to breed her.
> Suppose I gave you my pet, and I mean gentle pet female who has very
> good fiber and a lame leg.
> Then you had financial reverses and had to leave your farm and sell
> or give away all you animals.
> Almost any new owner of my lame female could consult with many vets
> who would say that she is healthy enough for breeding, in fact
> a vet and alpaca owner has told me that she is healthy enough for
> breeding.
> Now the scenario unfolds to find the new owenr of my lame dam in
> control.
> They decide to breed her and she has three more prize crias, then
> they decide to sell her to a start up know nothing farm and she has
> three more crias.
> When does the cruelty (IMHO) stop??
>
> Now, I think that you should stop feeling hurt and thank all the
> honest careing people in this group for a lesson learned.
>
> Elwin Bagley
> www.windyhillalpacafarm.com
>
>
> --- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Raritan Way Farm
> <llama20042004@y...> wrote:
> >
> > My husband and I are honest folks. We are both from farm familes
> and come from families where a handshake and your word was all that
> was needed. So you see we are well aware all the care animals
> require.
> >
> > Recently we had a premature lamb born that was going to need
> more care than we could provide for her. We drove 200 miles down
> and 200 miles back to take her to a lady who raises baby lambs so
> she would have a greater chance of survival. We didn't make a dime
> on her. absolutely nothing. But it didn't matter she needed to be
> cared for. This was on a Sunday night and we both had to be up for
> work early Monday morning. Alot of people would have just let her
> die. So you see my husband and I are caring devoted animal people.
> >
> >
> >
> > Radched@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 12/18/2005 3:07:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > llama20042004@y... writes:
> > I do not understand your motives for being hostile towards perhaps
> a future
> > client.
> > I do have the money to invest in other "big money" alpacas
> should we choose
> > too.
> > Too bad you will never know if you could have been the person we
> purchased
> > them from.
> > I don't think anyone was trying to be hostile or make you feel
> unwelcome. I
> > have heard in the past that people have persued non-registered (or
> Canadian
> > registered) females with the intent of breeding them and
> registering the crias
> > so they can sell them for the market value. It can't be done with
> ARI - the
> > registry is closed. Canada does have a "breed up" program where
> you can bred an
> > unregistered female with a registered male, and eventually get the
> future
> > offspring to be 15/16th "pure" and then they are registerable with
> their
> > registry. We just want to make sure that is clear, not
> necessarily aimed at you, but
> > at anyone who might try to do it in the future.
> >
> > Heidi Christensen
> > Graham WA
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Alpaca Alpaca breeders West wind inn Farm animal
> Real estate farming Farming organic
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> > Visit your group "AlpacaTalk" on the web.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > AlpacaTalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Raritan Way Farm
> > Robert and Tina Moore
> > 435 Hwy 327
> > Lebanon Ky, 40033
> > lama20042004@yahoo,com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

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[AlpacaTalk] Re: Female fiber/pet animals wanted

I'm sorry you got the feeling anyone was making you feel unwanted.
That certainly wasn't anyone's intent, I'm sure. I sensed no hostility
from any of the posts I've seen, just attempts at explaining what the
situation is regardung females. But we do all feel it is very
important to register our alpacas with ARI, and any females that are
not, are not considered breeding stock, generally speaking.

If you just want fiber quality animals to get your feet wet, weanling,
yearling, or 2 year old fiber boys would be your best bet. And they
all really should be ARI registered, no matter what. It's not the same
as picking up a dog from the pound or something like that.

There just aren't breeding quality fiber females available. Either
they are breeding quality, or they are fiber quality non-breeders. I
myself bought a female about 2 years ago at a fiber quality price,
with the hopes that I could get her bred and carry a pregnancy to
term, but so far she's still not confirmed pregnant... I'll have to
get a progesterone or ultrasound soon to check that. My point is, she
wasn't free and it's taking a lot of work to see if she can even carry
another cria to term.

I hope this helps explain things a bit. You see, we're all working
hard to improve the national herd. Honestly, many imports never should
have been allowed into the country, but there was a learning curve for
the importers in the early days of this industry. I've seen a few
females for sale as non-breeders because although they may be
perfectly healthy and capable of having healthy babies, they have bite
problems or other conformational faults that we as responsible
breeders do not want to pass on. We just feel it's irresponsible to do so.

And, we also feel that alpacas are not exactly pets (although many of
them act like it sometimes, and I love them like my cats) and should
not be seen as such.

I recently sold a female who was bottle fed as a cria. She was
defnitely a pet, personality wise. However, now that she's a grown-up
breeding dam, she doesn't want to have anything to do with humans.
Just give her food and otherwise leave her alone! I know you said you
wouldn't necessarily breed them all the time, but to be honest, these
girls want to be bred and have babies all the time. It's hearbreaking
to see the girls who are incapable of breeding, they really want babies.

So to repeat myself, breeding girls are breeding girls. Otherwise,
fiber quality females should not be bred under any circumstances. I
hope this helps explain where we're coming from. We just want what's
best for the animals as well as what's best for the industry, even if
others may not be interested in the larger industry.

Heather Zeleny
West Wind Alpacas
1150 Darlene Ln. #199
Eugene, OR, 97401

voice: 541.868.6976

http://www.westwindalpacas.com/
http://www.alpacanation.com/westwind.asp

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Raritan Way Farm
<llama20042004@y...> wrote:
>
> We enjoy having a baby animal that we can train ourselves that
hasn't been ruined by another's handling and we do not breed our
animals all the time. We only breed our animals when we wish to have
one to keep.
>
> Also you all have made us feel very unwelcomed to your group and
it is people like us who buy the gelding male fiber animals that you
do not want. Also by getting our feet "wet" with these alpacas could
lead to bigger investments in the future by buying better animals from
some of you.
>
> I do not understand your motives for being hostile towards perhaps
a future client.
> I do have the money to invest in other "big money" alpacas should
we choose too.
> Too bad you will never know if you could have been the person we
purchased them from.
>
> Heather Zeleny - West Wind Alpacas <westwindalpacas@c...> wrote:
> Why is it that you must have females that are capable of reproducing
> if you don't want to become breeders?
>
> I would hope that there aren't any non-registered breeding females out
> there, but there probably are....
>
> Have you read the posts from yesterday and the day before regarding
> the registries? Many of us feel it our responsibility to support the
> registry and protect our national breeding stock.
>
> Heather Zeleny
> West Wind Alpacas
> 1150 Darlene Ln. #199
> Eugene, OR, 97401
>
> voice: 541.868.6976
>
> http://www.westwindalpacas.com/
> http://www.alpacanation.com/westwind.asp
>
>
> --- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Raritan Way Farm
> <llama20042004@y...> wrote:
> >
> > We are not going to get Alpacas to make money. Our sheep makes good
> money. We only want 2 more alpacas to go with the the 2 we have. No
> more.
> > What is wrong with someone who loves the animals and doesn't look
> at the money end of it. We do not wish to become breeders. Our
> animals are for our own enjoyment and for our family and friends.
> >
> > Raritan Way Farm
> > Robert and Tina Moore
> > 435 Hwy 327
> > Lebanon Ky, 40033
> > lama20042004@yahoo,com
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Alpaca Alpaca breeders West wind inn Farm animal
Real estate farming Farming organic
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "AlpacaTalk" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> AlpacaTalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Raritan Way Farm
> Robert and Tina Moore
> 435 Hwy 327
> Lebanon Ky, 40033
> lama20042004@yahoo,com
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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[AlpacaTalk] Re: Female fiber/pet animals wanted

Robert and Tina; I wish to join the other careing members of this
group in apologizing for appearing to be hostile.

I say again, You know that you are caring and honest, You know that
you will treat all you animals well has you have proved in the past.
But, you are not in control of the future. You cannot control what
will happen to the alpacas that you are buying if something should
go wrong.
I beleive that your motives are honest, but I must continue to watch
over my alpacas that I consider a gift of God.
I tried to make a point and apoloize by telling about my lame female
alpaca that I cannot give away because she can still be bred, but my
vet and I think that she should not be bred anymore.
I will try to explain in detail just why I will not, and most
responsible alpaca owners will not sell a breeding female to you and
beleive your statement that you do not intend to breed her.
Suppose I gave you my pet, and I mean gentle pet female who has very
good fiber and a lame leg.
Then you had financial reverses and had to leave your farm and sell
or give away all you animals.
Almost any new owner of my lame female could consult with many vets
who would say that she is healthy enough for breeding, in fact
a vet and alpaca owner has told me that she is healthy enough for
breeding.
Now the scenario unfolds to find the new owenr of my lame dam in
control.
They decide to breed her and she has three more prize crias, then
they decide to sell her to a start up know nothing farm and she has
three more crias.
When does the cruelty (IMHO) stop??

Now, I think that you should stop feeling hurt and thank all the
honest careing people in this group for a lesson learned.

Elwin Bagley
www.windyhillalpacafarm.com

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Raritan Way Farm
<llama20042004@y...> wrote:
>
> My husband and I are honest folks. We are both from farm familes
and come from families where a handshake and your word was all that
was needed. So you see we are well aware all the care animals
require.
>
> Recently we had a premature lamb born that was going to need
more care than we could provide for her. We drove 200 miles down
and 200 miles back to take her to a lady who raises baby lambs so
she would have a greater chance of survival. We didn't make a dime
on her. absolutely nothing. But it didn't matter she needed to be
cared for. This was on a Sunday night and we both had to be up for
work early Monday morning. Alot of people would have just let her
die. So you see my husband and I are caring devoted animal people.
>
>
>
> Radched@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/18/2005 3:07:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> llama20042004@y... writes:
> I do not understand your motives for being hostile towards perhaps
a future
> client.
> I do have the money to invest in other "big money" alpacas
should we choose
> too.
> Too bad you will never know if you could have been the person we
purchased
> them from.
> I don't think anyone was trying to be hostile or make you feel
unwelcome. I
> have heard in the past that people have persued non-registered (or
Canadian
> registered) females with the intent of breeding them and
registering the crias
> so they can sell them for the market value. It can't be done with
ARI - the
> registry is closed. Canada does have a "breed up" program where
you can bred an
> unregistered female with a registered male, and eventually get the
future
> offspring to be 15/16th "pure" and then they are registerable with
their
> registry. We just want to make sure that is clear, not
necessarily aimed at you, but
> at anyone who might try to do it in the future.
>
> Heidi Christensen
> Graham WA
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Alpaca Alpaca breeders West wind inn Farm animal
Real estate farming Farming organic
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "AlpacaTalk" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> AlpacaTalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Raritan Way Farm
> Robert and Tina Moore
> 435 Hwy 327
> Lebanon Ky, 40033
> lama20042004@yahoo,com
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Female fiber/pet animals wanted

My husband and I are honest folks. We are both from farm familes and come from families where a handshake and your word was all that was needed. So you see we are well aware all the care animals require.

Recently we had a premature lamb born that was going to need more care than we could provide for her. We drove 200 miles down and 200 miles back to take her to a lady who raises baby lambs so she would have a greater chance of survival. We didn't make a dime on her. absolutely nothing. But it didn't matter she needed to be cared for. This was on a Sunday night and we both had to be up for work early Monday morning. Alot of people would have just let her die. So you see my husband and I are caring devoted animal people.



Radched@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 12/18/2005 3:07:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
llama20042004@yahoo.com writes:
I do not understand your motives for being hostile towards perhaps a future
client.
I do have the money to invest in other "big money" alpacas should we choose
too.
Too bad you will never know if you could have been the person we purchased
them from.
I don't think anyone was trying to be hostile or make you feel unwelcome. I
have heard in the past that people have persued non-registered (or Canadian
registered) females with the intent of breeding them and registering the crias
so they can sell them for the market value. It can't be done with ARI - the
registry is closed. Canada does have a "breed up" program where you can bred an
unregistered female with a registered male, and eventually get the future
offspring to be 15/16th "pure" and then they are registerable with their
registry. We just want to make sure that is clear, not necessarily aimed at you, but
at anyone who might try to do it in the future.

Heidi Christensen
Graham WA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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---------------------------------

Raritan Way Farm
Robert and Tina Moore
435 Hwy 327
Lebanon Ky, 40033
lama20042004@yahoo,com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Female fiber/pet animals wanted

In a message dated 12/18/2005 3:07:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
llama20042004@yahoo.com writes:
I do not understand your motives for being hostile towards perhaps a future
client.
I do have the money to invest in other "big money" alpacas should we choose
too.
Too bad you will never know if you could have been the person we purchased
them from.
I don't think anyone was trying to be hostile or make you feel unwelcome. I
have heard in the past that people have persued non-registered (or Canadian
registered) females with the intent of breeding them and registering the crias
so they can sell them for the market value. It can't be done with ARI - the
registry is closed. Canada does have a "breed up" program where you can bred an
unregistered female with a registered male, and eventually get the future
offspring to be 15/16th "pure" and then they are registerable with their
registry. We just want to make sure that is clear, not necessarily aimed at you, but
at anyone who might try to do it in the future.

Heidi Christensen
Graham WA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Female fiber/pet animals wanted

Our animals are properly cared for and my vet is only 6 miles away. We raise sheep and we have never lost a lamb to predators and have
never lost any animals that we have raised here to worms or parasites. I must say we are doing something right. When we have visited farms to look at animals and at some of the local shows here we have heard some horror stories as well. And I didn't ask for a free animal. I have the money and the time to purchase and care for what
I want without having to finance them.




Margie Korshoj <mkorshoj@comcast.net> wrote:
HI, Most alpaca breeders do NOT ruin their alpacas with their handling. Unfortunately, there are way too many people who are NOT interested in the whole package that comes with having an alpaca. By that I mean proper predator proof fencing, selecting high quality hay, seeding pastures to meet their needs, regular and necessary worming, tooth trimming, nail trimming, keeping clean water available, making it warm in cold months and adding electrolytes, shearing them every year, providing shelter, regular vet checks, and I could go on and on here.

We don't want our alpacas to go to homes that will not make sure they are cared for and may eventually end up needing rescue. I should say I don't want my alpacas as I am speaking strictly for myself here, although I know most owners would be in agreement.

Most of us are extremely buyer aware and try to determine a responsible owner from one that just likes having a cool looking animal living on their property. These are NOT put in the pasture and leave them alone animals.

Granted you haven't indicated that you would give them anything but the best of facilities and all the proper care to go with it. But anyone that requests a free female as a fiber animal with the ability to reproduce, raises red flags all over the place.

Sincerely,
Margie
Margie Korshoj
mkorshoj@comcast.net
10313 SW 87th Ave.
Tigard, OR 97223
503-412-8689

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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---------------------------------

Raritan Way Farm
Robert and Tina Moore
435 Hwy 327
Lebanon Ky, 40033
lama20042004@yahoo,com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Female fiber/pet animals wanted

HI, Most alpaca breeders do NOT ruin their alpacas with their handling. Unfortunately, there are way too many people who are NOT interested in the whole package that comes with having an alpaca. By that I mean proper predator proof fencing, selecting high quality hay, seeding pastures to meet their needs, regular and necessary worming, tooth trimming, nail trimming, keeping clean water available, making it warm in cold months and adding electrolytes, shearing them every year, providing shelter, regular vet checks, and I could go on and on here.

We don't want our alpacas to go to homes that will not make sure they are cared for and may eventually end up needing rescue. I should say I don't want my alpacas as I am speaking strictly for myself here, although I know most owners would be in agreement.

Most of us are extremely buyer aware and try to determine a responsible owner from one that just likes having a cool looking animal living on their property. These are NOT put in the pasture and leave them alone animals.

Granted you haven't indicated that you would give them anything but the best of facilities and all the proper care to go with it. But anyone that requests a free female as a fiber animal with the ability to reproduce, raises red flags all over the place.

Sincerely,
Margie
Margie Korshoj
mkorshoj@comcast.net
10313 SW 87th Ave.
Tigard, OR 97223
503-412-8689

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Female fiber/pet animals wanted

We enjoy having a baby animal that we can train ourselves that hasn't been ruined by another's handling and we do not breed our animals all the time. We only breed our animals when we wish to have one to keep.

Also you all have made us feel very unwelcomed to your group and it is people like us who buy the gelding male fiber animals that you do not want. Also by getting our feet "wet" with these alpacas could lead to bigger investments in the future by buying better animals from some of you.

I do not understand your motives for being hostile towards perhaps a future client.
I do have the money to invest in other "big money" alpacas should we choose too.
Too bad you will never know if you could have been the person we purchased them from.

Heather Zeleny - West Wind Alpacas <westwindalpacas@comcast.net> wrote:
Why is it that you must have females that are capable of reproducing
if you don't want to become breeders?

I would hope that there aren't any non-registered breeding females out
there, but there probably are....

Have you read the posts from yesterday and the day before regarding
the registries? Many of us feel it our responsibility to support the
registry and protect our national breeding stock.

Heather Zeleny
West Wind Alpacas
1150 Darlene Ln. #199
Eugene, OR, 97401

voice: 541.868.6976

http://www.westwindalpacas.com/
http://www.alpacanation.com/westwind.asp

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Raritan Way Farm
<llama20042004@y...> wrote:
>
> We are not going to get Alpacas to make money. Our sheep makes good
money. We only want 2 more alpacas to go with the the 2 we have. No
more.
> What is wrong with someone who loves the animals and doesn't look
at the money end of it. We do not wish to become breeders. Our
animals are for our own enjoyment and for our family and friends.
>
> Raritan Way Farm
> Robert and Tina Moore
> 435 Hwy 327
> Lebanon Ky, 40033
> lama20042004@yahoo,com
>

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Robert and Tina Moore
435 Hwy 327
Lebanon Ky, 40033
lama20042004@yahoo,com

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[AlpacaTalk] Re: Female fiber/pet animals wanted

Why is it that you must have females that are capable of reproducing
if you don't want to become breeders?

I would hope that there aren't any non-registered breeding females out
there, but there probably are....

Have you read the posts from yesterday and the day before regarding
the registries? Many of us feel it our responsibility to support the
registry and protect our national breeding stock.

Heather Zeleny
West Wind Alpacas
1150 Darlene Ln. #199
Eugene, OR, 97401

voice: 541.868.6976

http://www.westwindalpacas.com/
http://www.alpacanation.com/westwind.asp

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Raritan Way Farm
<llama20042004@y...> wrote:
>
> We are not going to get Alpacas to make money. Our sheep makes good
money. We only want 2 more alpacas to go with the the 2 we have. No
more.
> What is wrong with someone who loves the animals and doesn't look
at the money end of it. We do not wish to become breeders. Our
animals are for our own enjoyment and for our family and friends.
>
> Raritan Way Farm
> Robert and Tina Moore
> 435 Hwy 327
> Lebanon Ky, 40033
> lama20042004@yahoo,com
>

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] the future

Denise: I got the message directly because I am an member of the AFCNA.
Thanks for posting this information here.
I plan to get some more exact information from Erin like the fact that they want only prime cria fiber, first shearing fiber. and what the address and deadline is for shipment, then try to post it on the alpacasite. I will post it on my alpaca farms site.
I know many farmers that do not belong to any chat site or any organization.
They need to be informed somehow.
This call for baby fiber should be sent out on the AOBA hint and all other means.
This is clearly a chance to contribute something to the progress of the fiber industry.
We should quit hoarding any baby fiber that we have in storage and pitch in.

Elwin & Setsuko Bagley
www.windyhillalpacafarm.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Denise L. Moss-Fritch
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 12:22 PM
Subject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] the future

Speaking of fiber, is this list aware of Erin McCarthy (BelleauWood Farms
Alpacas) work with the NC State University's School of Textiles? She is
seeking particularly cria fiber to ". . . Run product development tests on
Italian cashmere equipment. The results of these tests will be used to
develop grant proposals (both fiber processing and agricultural farming
grants) to present to government agencies and a business proposal to present
to U.S. alpaca breeder this spring."

Unfortunately we are too new to contribute with only one sheering of a few
alpacas last spring. Through local and Internet spinning contacts and
advertising we have sold what little fiber we had. However this project,
linked perhaps with the expanding number of mini-mills (and hopefully a
refurbished U.S. mill) with useful, everyday clothing products (not South
American hats, gloves, and scarves) would certainly help the industry.

Best,

Denise

Denise L. Moss-Fritch
New Moon Alpacas, LLC
Santa Clara, CA

www.newmoonalpacas.com

-----Original Message-----
From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Marianne Barry
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 10:30 PM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] the future

I just want to add that another production mill that believes in "All
American" is the NEAFP. (I am no way involved with the co. I just like what
they are doing). I wish more farms would turn to companys like them for
stocking their stores instead of buying imports. And how about buying from
each other? We could be stocking our farms stores with products made from
other small farms. Very few farms make everything, so why not buy from your
neighbor or the farm across the country instead of buying the imports? That
way we help the industry two ways, support the alpaca farms here, and no
imports! How can we convince the public to buy our products, when we sell
them imports in our own farm stores?
I agree with you on electing the right people into the BOD of AOBA,
however in the last election I didn't read anyones bios that said they're
for stopping the importing of alpaca goods. One person spoke up for the
small farmers and fiber production and I did vote for that person. But if
you are one of the many small farmers that are new to the industry and don't
"know the BOD", we can't vote for the right person unless they are willing
to speak out so we can hear them.
Well, enough for tonight,:) have a wonderful Sunday. If you're getting any
of this yucky cold rain that we are, stay dry and warm.:)
marianne
Sonny Haven Alpacas LLC
myalpacapride@yahoo.com

Elwin Bagley <Gapacaman@tds.net> wrote:
Your opinion agrees with more people than you think, and more people in
the AOBA should listen to you.
There are only two alpaca fiber mills that I know about which agree with us
who want to build the fiber industry by making and selling only American
products.
One is GMF and the other is Royal Fiber Spinnery.
These two belong to a small group which were only two at the Atlanta F2F
show.
They had a booth that said "buy american" at that show.
If we follow the lead of our fiber mill owners and our new AFCNA, we can
build a fiber industry that will surpass all others.

We will eventually win out. Rod Daken and Glen Berns are two that are
leading the way, along with most of the members of our new AFCNA.
One way we can win this battle is to start by voting the right people into
the BOD and getting the right people into the many committees that control
the AOBA and all the mistaken practices.
The problem is the elections are controlled by a nominating committe that is
composed of the very people who do not agree about stopping the imports and
stopping the government subsidy of imports.
We have to nominate by petition some good people to run for posts on the
BOD.
The AOBA is us, all the Alpaca Farmers, not just a vocal few who control the
elections.
We must take control of our AOBA.

This thread has gone way to political and I will probably be censored for
violating the rules, but we need to get our opinions heard and this site
plus the alpaca farms site is the only place that I can find that will allow
the truth to be posted.

Elwin & Setsuko Bagley
www.windyhillalpacafarm.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Marianne Barry
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] the future

I agree with the competion factor of the countries. That's why I think we
should not be purchasing alpaca products from other countries to sell in our
farm stores. Lets start buying American products to sell in our stores. Why
would peru care if we closed our boarders to imports, they make the money
off us by people buying their products. People who think it's not a fiber
market now do as much harm to the industry as those who buy imported
products. That's just IMHO, of course.
happy holidays everyone!
marianne
Sonny Haven AlpacasLLC
Sumter SC
myalpacapride@yahoo.com

Michael Hennessey <m.s.hennessey@frontiernet.net> wrote:
We not only have to compete with S.A. but also with China and Australia.
We
have not really been serious, in my opinion, about a fiber industry in the
U.S. and I do not see it happening in 5 years either. Also as we get
more
animals with better fiber so do the other countries. I think we are just
too far behind to ever catch up.
Sharon

MIKE & SHARON HENNESSEY
ALEATORY FARM LLC
REG. ALPACAS & NIGERIAN DWARF GOATS
704 COUNTY ROAD 9
CHENANGO FORKS,N.Y. 13746-2121
m.s.hennessey@frontiernet.net
www.alpacanation.com/aleatoryalpacas.asp

Tim & Marianne Barry
Sonny Haven Alpacas LLC
Sumter, SC
myalpacapride@yahoo.com
__________________________________________________

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Female fiber/pet animals wanted

I think that like Heidi, we are only trying to protect our females.
You know that you are not getting more alpacas to make money selling alpacas, but when you specify that they should be capable of reproducing you leave open the fact that you might breed them.
Ergo, you will have alpacas that must be sold or given away at some point in time.
Heidi or no one will knock you for trying to buy alpacas for the purpose of using them for pets or your own fiber hobby products purposes, but you must admit that someone who wants pets that are capable of reproduction just might be tempted to sell the good crias that even
"pet" quality females have at a profit.
We started in this business in 2000 with the idea to have a few pets and make money for feed from the fiber.
Then we fell in love with the new crias and wanted more and more, Not that we have a herd of 32, soon to be 44, we must sell in order to survive.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with your motives now, and there is nothing wrong with Heidi and me to question what might happen to your plan in the future.
Elwin
----- Original Message -----
From: Raritan Way Farm
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Female fiber/pet animals wanted

We are not going to get Alpacas to make money. Our sheep makes good money. We only want 2 more alpacas to go with the the 2 we have. No more.
What is wrong with someone who loves the animals and doesn't look at the money end of it. We do not wish to become breeders. Our animals are for our own enjoyment and for our family and friends.

Radched@aol.com wrote:
I don't remember if it was on one of these boards, or on AlpacaNation, but I
do remember see several non ARI females for sale.

Not wanting to be argumentative, but if you have any hopes of selling the
crias for a decent price, being registered is important, in this market anyway.
Most people won't buy a non registered animal for the basic fact that they
can't turn around and sell it for a good price. Sure, alpacas are cute and have
great fiber, but most people are in the industry to make money.

Heidi Christensen
Graham WA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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---------------------------------
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---------------------------------

Raritan Way Farm
Robert and Tina Moore
435 Hwy 327
Lebanon Ky, 40033
lama20042004@yahoo,com

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RE: [AlpacaTalk] the future

Speaking of fiber, is this list aware of Erin McCarthy (BelleauWood Farms
Alpacas) work with the NC State University's School of Textiles? She is
seeking particularly cria fiber to ". . . Run product development tests on
Italian cashmere equipment. The results of these tests will be used to
develop grant proposals (both fiber processing and agricultural farming
grants) to present to government agencies and a business proposal to present
to U.S. alpaca breeder this spring."

Unfortunately we are too new to contribute with only one sheering of a few
alpacas last spring. Through local and Internet spinning contacts and
advertising we have sold what little fiber we had. However this project,
linked perhaps with the expanding number of mini-mills (and hopefully a
refurbished U.S. mill) with useful, everyday clothing products (not South
American hats, gloves, and scarves) would certainly help the industry.

Best,

Denise

Denise L. Moss-Fritch
New Moon Alpacas, LLC
Santa Clara, CA

www.newmoonalpacas.com

-----Original Message-----
From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Marianne Barry
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 10:30 PM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] the future

I just want to add that another production mill that believes in "All
American" is the NEAFP. (I am no way involved with the co. I just like what
they are doing). I wish more farms would turn to companys like them for
stocking their stores instead of buying imports. And how about buying from
each other? We could be stocking our farms stores with products made from
other small farms. Very few farms make everything, so why not buy from your
neighbor or the farm across the country instead of buying the imports? That
way we help the industry two ways, support the alpaca farms here, and no
imports! How can we convince the public to buy our products, when we sell
them imports in our own farm stores?
I agree with you on electing the right people into the BOD of AOBA,
however in the last election I didn't read anyones bios that said they're
for stopping the importing of alpaca goods. One person spoke up for the
small farmers and fiber production and I did vote for that person. But if
you are one of the many small farmers that are new to the industry and don't
"know the BOD", we can't vote for the right person unless they are willing
to speak out so we can hear them.
Well, enough for tonight,:) have a wonderful Sunday. If you're getting any
of this yucky cold rain that we are, stay dry and warm.:)
marianne
Sonny Haven Alpacas LLC
myalpacapride@yahoo.com

Elwin Bagley <Gapacaman@tds.net> wrote:
Your opinion agrees with more people than you think, and more people in
the AOBA should listen to you.
There are only two alpaca fiber mills that I know about which agree with us
who want to build the fiber industry by making and selling only American
products.
One is GMF and the other is Royal Fiber Spinnery.
These two belong to a small group which were only two at the Atlanta F2F
show.
They had a booth that said "buy american" at that show.
If we follow the lead of our fiber mill owners and our new AFCNA, we can
build a fiber industry that will surpass all others.

We will eventually win out. Rod Daken and Glen Berns are two that are
leading the way, along with most of the members of our new AFCNA.
One way we can win this battle is to start by voting the right people into
the BOD and getting the right people into the many committees that control
the AOBA and all the mistaken practices.
The problem is the elections are controlled by a nominating committe that is
composed of the very people who do not agree about stopping the imports and
stopping the government subsidy of imports.
We have to nominate by petition some good people to run for posts on the
BOD.
The AOBA is us, all the Alpaca Farmers, not just a vocal few who control the
elections.
We must take control of our AOBA.

This thread has gone way to political and I will probably be censored for
violating the rules, but we need to get our opinions heard and this site
plus the alpaca farms site is the only place that I can find that will allow
the truth to be posted.

Elwin & Setsuko Bagley
www.windyhillalpacafarm.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Marianne Barry
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] the future

I agree with the competion factor of the countries. That's why I think we
should not be purchasing alpaca products from other countries to sell in our
farm stores. Lets start buying American products to sell in our stores. Why
would peru care if we closed our boarders to imports, they make the money
off us by people buying their products. People who think it's not a fiber
market now do as much harm to the industry as those who buy imported
products. That's just IMHO, of course.
happy holidays everyone!
marianne
Sonny Haven AlpacasLLC
Sumter SC
myalpacapride@yahoo.com

Michael Hennessey <m.s.hennessey@frontiernet.net> wrote:
We not only have to compete with S.A. but also with China and Australia.
We
have not really been serious, in my opinion, about a fiber industry in the
U.S. and I do not see it happening in 5 years either. Also as we get
more
animals with better fiber so do the other countries. I think we are just
too far behind to ever catch up.
Sharon

MIKE & SHARON HENNESSEY
ALEATORY FARM LLC
REG. ALPACAS & NIGERIAN DWARF GOATS
704 COUNTY ROAD 9
CHENANGO FORKS,N.Y. 13746-2121
m.s.hennessey@frontiernet.net
www.alpacanation.com/aleatoryalpacas.asp

Tim & Marianne Barry
Sonny Haven Alpacas LLC
Sumter, SC
myalpacapride@yahoo.com
__________________________________________________

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