Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Sunday, February 15, 2009

Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: Albon

I honestly don't know what most people do... although I do suspect
Corid is the 1st treatment for scours (diarrhea) for most people. I'm
just terribly afraid of PEM so Corid isn't my med of first choice.
Actually, I believe when my girl had it, vet said "a full load" and
indeed she had been losing weight and had visible scours for quite a
while, we treated with Safeguard paste or drench (can't remember
which) and Ivomec first off. And it took a very long time for her to
put the weight back on. Safeguard is very inexpensive at your local
feed store, in small tubes for ease of administration. Ivomec is more
expensive, and if you're in M-worm (White Tail Deer) country, you
already treat with that monthly.

E. mac is probably more prevalent than "they" know, since it can be
hard to detect. But the regular strains of coccidia can be just as
troublesome, My girl who I spoke of above had a run of the mill
variety. True, I don't think she would have lasted as long if it had
been E mac before I finally took the fecal down to the vet's office
myself... but she was definitely not doing well. Scours is never
something to be ignored in juveniles. And really, not in adults either.

If you do want to keep Ivomec on hand, which I recommend, it doesn't
expire so just keep that in a cool dry place, as with Albon, topical
pest treatments, I think even some antibiotics can be kept at room
temp, but most do need refrigeration.
Oh, so this gets back to your question of what to keep on hand. :)

Ivomec
Albon
Safeguard
Bo-Se (prescription)

We try to only give meds when absolutely necessary. This is a
philosophy I've had since my daughter was born. She had her first few
well-baby check-ups, but after that it was only for the required
vaccinations (which I am now mostly against after being educated
about them). You know, you can tell when it's a run of the mill cold
or if it's serious...

We choose the same with our alpacas. It takes spending time with them
so that you can tell if they're not quite right... and we just
learned that we often know better than the vets. When alpacas are
visibly sick, they need medical attention/meds. If you have a cria
with a upper respiratory infection and the vet says it's nothing and
won't give antibiotics, you don't need a prescription, you can get
them at your feed store. As long as you don't automatically reach for
the Pen-G every time they sneeze, you won't run the risk of
resistance, but you may save your cria's life if you KNOW she's sick.

Sigh.

Heather

Oh, and for sub-Q injections, I like 1/2" needles, and the 18 gauge
are thicker but you can push the meds quicker than with a finer needle.

On Feb 15, 2009, at 7:47 PM, houckj@aol.com wrote:

> Thanks for this link Heather - very informative!
> I had no idea really what coccidia is. Pretty scary stuff. Do most
> people use decoquinate for prevention? Seems that would be the thing
> to do as opposed to waiting for it to appear and then treating for it?
> My favorite girl was "unthrifty" for a long time, could not get her to
> put on weight no matter what. The vet never ever mentioned the
> possiblity of coccidia; I'm not really surprised, he always left
> the dx
> up to me anyway for the most part; he would just shrug his shoulders
> when I would ask questions - hence the reason (one of many) I no
> longer
> have a vet. After reading this link that is the first thing I would
> think of now and go ahead and treat for it?
>
> Janice, really getting an education the past several months and amazed
> that my alpacas have survived my ignorance all these years.
>
> <<<<http://cascadealpacabreeders.com/index.php/Alpaca-Diseases/E-
> mac-or-I-
> mac-Q-and-A.html
> This article is specifically speaking to E. mac, but we prefer to use
> Albon over Corid, as Coridd is a thiaminase, which means it depletes
> or binds thiamine so that the coccidia can't reproduce, However, it
> also depletes it from the alpaca, and can cause PEM, which you really
> don't want to have to deal with.
> >>>>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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posted by Chaddo at 8:23 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

[AlpacaTalk] RE: Albon

Thanks for this link Heather - very informative!
I had no idea really what coccidia is. Pretty scary stuff. Do most
people use decoquinate for prevention? Seems that would be the thing
to do as opposed to waiting for it to appear and then treating for it?
My favorite girl was "unthrifty" for a long time, could not get her to
put on weight no matter what. The vet never ever mentioned the
possiblity of coccidia; I'm not really surprised, he always left the dx
up to me anyway for the most part; he would just shrug his shoulders
when I would ask questions - hence the reason (one of many) I no longer
have a vet. After reading this link that is the first thing I would
think of now and go ahead and treat for it?

Janice, really getting an education the past several months and amazed
that my alpacas have survived my ignorance all these years.

<<<<http://cascadealpacabreeders.com/index.php/Alpaca-Diseases/E-mac-or-I-
mac-Q-and-A.html
This article is specifically speaking to E. mac, but we prefer to use
Albon over Corid, as Coridd is a thiaminase, which means it depletes
or binds thiamine so that the coccidia can't reproduce, However, it
also depletes it from the alpaca, and can cause PEM, which you really
don't want to have to deal with.
>>>>

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posted by Chaddo at 7:47 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: Albon P.S.

Oh, PS. We got a pint or a liter of the 12.5% liquid from our vet, so
was only $5 or maybe $10 for it. I would imagine even regular cat and
dog vets would carry this and be able to dispense less than a gallon
for you, especially since its not a prescription item.

For us, though, with sometimes needing to treat the entire herd of
50, we got the gallon. :)

Heather

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posted by Chaddo at 6:31 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: Albon

Coccidia sometimes just shows up at farms. I think birds spread it,
and there certainly are avian strains of it. In fact a friend of mine
was battling a terrible case on her farm and turned out it was indeed
avian coccidia.

Corid is a good med, just be very careful with the PEM side effect,
it can quickly be fatal. That's why we prefer Albon. 1 gallon is
only $36.75 from Valley Vet, the 250ml bottle of 40% injectible is
only $20.95 with free freight. I don't think it expires, it's a
chemical compound. Just store in a cool, dry place.

Oh, and here's some label info for Pfizer Albon:
INDICATIONS FOR USE: Albon is indicated for the treatment of
respiratory, genitourinary tract, enteric, and soft tissue infections
in dogs and cats: tonsillitis, cystitis, pustular dermatitis,
bacterial enteritis, pharyngitis, nephritis, anal gland infections,
canine salmonellosis, bronchitis, metritis, abscesses, bacterial
enteritis associated with coccidiosis in dogs, pneumonia, pyometra
and wound infections when caused by streptococci, staphylococci,
escherichia, salmonella, klebsiella, proteus or shigella organisms
sensitive to sulfadimethoxine.

So it is labelled for coccidia.

Here's a soluble powder form also from Valley Vet:
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e078da-7b6a-11d5-
a192-00b0d0204ae5

It looks like the liquid gallon form is more economical, though. We
add 1/2 cup of the liquid to a 5 gallon bucket, and we turned off the
automatic waterers while treating this way (much easier than dosing
each animal by mouth!).

Maybe ask your feed store if they can get the gallon of Agri-labs Di-
Methox12.5% oral solution. I would be surprised if they can't or
won't. If they will get it for you, you will probably not have to pay
shipping on 10 lbs from Valley Vet.

Heather

On Feb 15, 2009, at 5:57 PM, houckj@aol.com wrote:

> Thanks for the info Heather, very helpful. I appreciate it. It is very
> expensive for me at this time, I don't see any smaller sizes. Does it
> keep "forever", or does it expire? I just wanted to have some on hand
> in case of an emergency type situation, have never needed any before.
> They tell me at my feed store that lately *everyone* is buying
> Corid, so
> they don't know if something is "going around". I have no idea - is
> this a contagious type thing that would "go around"?
>
> Thanks, Janice
>
> <<<<We also prefer not to use Corid unless we have a recurrence of
> coccidia after treating with Albon. We get Albon liquid from our vet.
> It is also available from Valley Vet:
> http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e078e5-7b6a-11d5-
> a192-00b0d0204ae5
> for the gallon size 12.5%. It can either be mixed in the water or
> dosed orally.
>
> Oregon State also recommends the 40% injectible suspension given by
> mouth 1cc per 30 lbs of alpaca body weight.
> http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07bbe-7b6a-11d5-
> a192-00b0d0204ae5
>
> http://cascadealpacabreeders.com/index.php/Alpaca-Diseases/E-mac-or-I-
> mac-Q-and-A.html
> This article is specifically speaking to E. mac, but we prefer to use
> Albon over Corid, as Coridd is a thiaminase, which means it depletes
> or binds thiamine so that the coccidia can't reproduce, However, it
> also depletes it from the alpaca, and can cause PEM, which you really
> don't want to have to deal with.>>>>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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posted by Chaddo at 6:27 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

[AlpacaTalk] RE: Albon

Thanks for the info Heather, very helpful. I appreciate it. It is very
expensive for me at this time, I don't see any smaller sizes. Does it
keep "forever", or does it expire? I just wanted to have some on hand
in case of an emergency type situation, have never needed any before.
They tell me at my feed store that lately *everyone* is buying Corid, so
they don't know if something is "going around". I have no idea - is
this a contagious type thing that would "go around"?

Thanks, Janice

<<<<We also prefer not to use Corid unless we have a recurrence of
coccidia after treating with Albon. We get Albon liquid from our vet.
It is also available from Valley Vet:
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e078e5-7b6a-11d5-
a192-00b0d0204ae5
for the gallon size 12.5%. It can either be mixed in the water or
dosed orally.

Oregon State also recommends the 40% injectible suspension given by
mouth 1cc per 30 lbs of alpaca body weight.
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07bbe-7b6a-11d5-
a192-00b0d0204ae5

http://cascadealpacabreeders.com/index.php/Alpaca-Diseases/E-mac-or-I-
mac-Q-and-A.html
This article is specifically speaking to E. mac, but we prefer to use
Albon over Corid, as Coridd is a thiaminase, which means it depletes
or binds thiamine so that the coccidia can't reproduce, However, it
also depletes it from the alpaca, and can cause PEM, which you really
don't want to have to deal with.>>>>

__._,_.___
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posted by Chaddo at 5:57 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: OB wire/teeth

I just looked at the ob wire at useful-items.com, it does say it's 27
strand, so you probably have the right stuff.

Heather

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posted by Chaddo at 5:54 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: OB wire/teeth

Our wire is about 1/8" thick. It is multi strand, and I didn't check
it in the barn again today.

To trim the teeth, no it is impossible to put around each individual
tooth as with dental floss. Even if you could, that would make for a
very messy trim job.

Here's my description again of the process:

> So, for trimming teeth, say you have an adult with all 6 incisors in.
> Maybe, like on some of ours, only the 1st and 2nd incisors are too
> long. The 3rd ones are usually ok. So we just start with the wire at
> the top of the 3rd set, and start sawing toward (myself), pulling the
> wire and sawing the 2nd incisors at an angle generally parallel to
> the gumline. When you get nearly through the teeth, they'll probably
> pop off and might hit you in the face. Not a bad idea to wear eye
> protection, especially if trimming fighting teeth! Anyway, you just
> proceed to the 1st incisors, pulling toward yourself, with strong
> pressure, as quickly as possible, because the alpaca will likely be
> trying to get away. They may not be perfect. If you have a dremel
> tool with a carbide drum type tip, and you have strong help to keep
> the alpaca restrained, you can then smooth off the teeth. Otherwise,
> don't worry too much, they'll smooth off on their own. In fact I have
> pics I'll post soon, before trim, after trim, and a couple weeks
> later with no dremel smoothing,
>
> Many people use a small rope dog chew toy to keep the mouth open a
> bit and the tongue pushed back out of the way of the wire. We also
> use the end of a roll of vetwrap, the sheath to a 6cc syringe...
> anything about 1/2" to 3/4" in diameter that isn't too hard.Even a
> piece of dowel would work ok.
>

So, you have the wire resting on top of the 3rd incisors, both of
them, and coming out of the mouth on either side, thereby allowing
you to cut both 2nd incisors at the same time, then you continue
sawing and pulling toward yourself and will immediately start on the
1st incisors (the front middle teeth). Then they'll be done in no time.

And please remember that shearing is not optional for alpacas. They
must be shorn each and every year or death from heat stroke is a very
real possibility. I lived in GA when I was a kid, they can't be left
in full fleece all summer. Fans and sprinklers are not sufficient.
You mentioned losing nearly all of your crias. I don't know if you've
left your animals unshorn in the past, but doing so will increase
your risk of stillbirths and heat stroke in the pregnant dams.

I mentioned that one year we sheared a girl with fiskars spring
loaded scissors because we were new and didn't want to "put her
through the stress of shearing" as we were told, since she was due
early June and shearing was mid-May. She looked like the devil, but
there is no choice. The fleece must come off no matter what. And,
that was the last year we ever didn't have anyone shorn with the rest
of the herd no matter the due date. They're happier shorn, even if
they're due in a month, two months, or the next day. And otherwise
they can die or get very very sick.

Heather

On Feb 15, 2009, at 5:35 PM, houckj@aol.com wrote:

> Great description, thanks Heather. I have no idea off the top of my
> head what 1 to 1.5 mm looks like (they just never did get around to
> teaching us metrics in school tho they kept threatening to! Any time
> metrics is spoken to me my brain twists into knots and I have to go
> find
> a conversion table), but when you said the spool it was on was 1/4"
> high
> - now *that* I can immediately picture! The OB wire I purchased is
> 12 m
> - I guess that means 12 meters in length tho it does not say that,
> just
> 12m - so about the same as the 11 yds you get from VV. For the same
> app
> length my spool is also about 2.5 inches or so across, but an 1" high.
> Your wire therefore has to be much slimmer than this. Is yours
> twisted/multi strands?
>
> So from your description of the process, you *are* putting the wire
> between/around each individual tooth? Like dental floss?
>
> I am planning to trim the teeth when my shearer is here this year. I
> don't have a chute so he brings a huge very thick rubber mat and we
> lay
> them gently on their side on it. Usually his wife comes as well, but
> last year just he and I were able to manage. He ties their legs out to
> a stake - front together and back together; again very gently, he is a
> "gentle giant", his mannerisms are always so calm and tho he is in
> great
> demand and travels all over, he always acts as if I am his only
> customer
> and he has all day. I sit at the head and gently hold it and talk and
> coo to the paca. If his wife or another 3rd person is here she sits at
> their back and is at the ready should the animal start struggling
> to get
> up. She sits close enough that they know she is there, but she doesn't
> touch the alpaca. I take this opportunity to really look them over,
> esp
> arm pits, under the tail, etc; places they won't ordinarily let me
> look.
> I trim their nails and give them their decto (this year Ivermec), and
> vaccines - if I am giving any. So this year I want to be ready
> mentally
> and supplies and be able to describe to him exactly what we are
> going to
> do, as I try to do all of this as quickly as possible and not take
> advantage of his time.
>
> If I wasn't needing to trim their teeth so badly I would skip the
> shearing this year and just do a little hand trimming if needed
> later in
> the summer. He trimmed them so close last year that they *still* don't
> have much of a coat and winter is almost over. I hate tor spend the
> money for shearing when it doesn't look needed, but I just cannot let
> their teeth go on - they are SO long. What do alpacas in the wild do
> that our guys are not doing that keeps their teeth down? We really
> shouldn't have to trim teeth, their must be some natural management
> practice that would eliminate that - at least for the incisors, maybe
> not the fighting teeth. I'll have to do those as well on my breeding
> male. Aren't those on the top?
>
> Thanks! Janice

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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posted by Chaddo at 5:50 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

[AlpacaTalk] RE: Bone Tumor update

<<<<The vet walked out with me to check on her before I left, and to
give my dog, Red, a kiss.

Jim Guerin
Jimmini Farm >>>>>

Awwhhhh :-).

Sounds like your little girl is in good hands. Please keep us posted.

Warmly, Janice in NW GA

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posted by Chaddo at 5:43 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

[AlpacaTalk] RE: OB wire/teeth

Great description, thanks Heather. I have no idea off the top of my
head what 1 to 1.5 mm looks like (they just never did get around to
teaching us metrics in school tho they kept threatening to! Any time
metrics is spoken to me my brain twists into knots and I have to go find
a conversion table), but when you said the spool it was on was 1/4" high
- now *that* I can immediately picture! The OB wire I purchased is 12 m
- I guess that means 12 meters in length tho it does not say that, just
12m - so about the same as the 11 yds you get from VV. For the same app
length my spool is also about 2.5 inches or so across, but an 1" high.
Your wire therefore has to be much slimmer than this. Is yours
twisted/multi strands?

So from your description of the process, you *are* putting the wire
between/around each individual tooth? Like dental floss?

I am planning to trim the teeth when my shearer is here this year. I
don't have a chute so he brings a huge very thick rubber mat and we lay
them gently on their side on it. Usually his wife comes as well, but
last year just he and I were able to manage. He ties their legs out to
a stake - front together and back together; again very gently, he is a
"gentle giant", his mannerisms are always so calm and tho he is in great
demand and travels all over, he always acts as if I am his only customer
and he has all day. I sit at the head and gently hold it and talk and
coo to the paca. If his wife or another 3rd person is here she sits at
their back and is at the ready should the animal start struggling to get
up. She sits close enough that they know she is there, but she doesn't
touch the alpaca. I take this opportunity to really look them over, esp
arm pits, under the tail, etc; places they won't ordinarily let me look.
I trim their nails and give them their decto (this year Ivermec), and
vaccines - if I am giving any. So this year I want to be ready mentally
and supplies and be able to describe to him exactly what we are going to
do, as I try to do all of this as quickly as possible and not take
advantage of his time.

If I wasn't needing to trim their teeth so badly I would skip the
shearing this year and just do a little hand trimming if needed later in
the summer. He trimmed them so close last year that they *still* don't
have much of a coat and winter is almost over. I hate tor spend the
money for shearing when it doesn't look needed, but I just cannot let
their teeth go on - they are SO long. What do alpacas in the wild do
that our guys are not doing that keeps their teeth down? We really
shouldn't have to trim teeth, their must be some natural management
practice that would eliminate that - at least for the incisors, maybe
not the fighting teeth. I'll have to do those as well on my breeding
male. Aren't those on the top?

Thanks! Janice

__._,_.___
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posted by Chaddo at 5:35 PM 0 comments