Re: [AlpacaTalk] Hartman Alpaca Sale in Nebraska
Hi Margaret....
As it is now from the posts I have received and many people call as they are afraid to post what they know, many of these wonderful alpacas are shipped to Canada where they are in turn taken to Mexico for the meat market. When someone pays only $10-$35 you can see them easily going for meat.
I found out from the people who purchased my alpacas that they are basically day traders in them. They turn them right around and take them to stockyard sales and sell them for double or triple their money to who knows who for who knows what. One person was from Texas where I have heard that there are people buying them by the hudreds and taking them to flea markets and street corners to sell for $500-$1,000 without any papers.
Not only does this need to be stopped for the sake of the alpacas but also for the sake of our industry!
How are the good honest hard working breeders suppose to sell their ARI Registered alpacas when people are saying "oh, I can get a female for $175 at this auction!"
It is time for people who have had the bad experience at Hartman's or any other venue to stand up and start warning people as to what is going on. It is also time for people to stop buying at these auctions and venues so that it does not proliferate the bad conduct.
I can't tell you the stories that I am hearing from people and the deaths of the animals!!
Step up and if anyone wants me to e-mail them something that they can forward to their contacts please let me know!
Elizabeth Warynick
Alpacas de Los Olivos
Los Olivos, CA
____________
From: Margaret Laird <hometulie@yahoo.
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 3:09:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Hartman Alpaca Sale in Nebraska
I have never been to this sale but have heard horror stories also. It needs to be boycotted by all alpaca breeders and stopped. Who knows where the poor animals go and what they go through. I imagine some horrible things about what happens to them. Some large farms don't care. They are only in it for the money and care less about the dear animals who depend on them for their care. What a tragic end some of them go through. Just my thoughts. What are people supposed to do with their animals when they have to retire because of death of a spouse or no longer able to care for them. We have discussed this many times and we are close to the category of not being able to do this anymore. Let's hear some of your ideas.
I wouldn't give out any more ARI'S. This is probably some of the reason people are unable to sell their animals. Some newbies have never educated themselves and think it is easy money! They just go and buy some alpacas unaware of the responsibility.
MARGARET LAIRD
JAMESTOWN PA
--- On Fri, 5/29/09, J Guerin <jgyelwa@ywave. com> wrote:
From: J Guerin <jgyelwa@ywave. com>
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Hartman Alpaca Sale in Nebraska
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Friday, May 29, 2009, 7:04 PM
Elizabeth,
I am very sorry to hear of the loss of your husband, and now this auction.
Thank you for sharing with all of us what you went thru, and the pittance you got for your alpacas.
Personally, if it were me, I would refuse to give out any of the ARI numbers. Sure, they say they will make sausage out of her, but will they, I doubt it. They will probably fake the papers and sell her any way. It is done in the dog world, why not in the alpaca world.
Take care.
Jim Guerin
Jimmini Farm
Yelm, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Elizabeth Warynick
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Hartman Alpaca Sale in Nebraska
Thanks Heather..... .I am trying to get feed back because I sent 8 alpacas there for their April auction per the suggestion of a few of my big alpaca breeder friends. I had seen the Hartman ads for years and figured it must be a normal alpaca auction. I found out the hard way that this is not true.
I had to pay Hartman $100 per male and $200 per female to be in the auction plus the tranportation costs which ended up being $100 per alpaca. I agonized for a month over who to send. I told him I would send 4 females and 4 males. My husband died last year and I was left to run the ranch with almost 60 animals on it. Our income stopped in January with the tennent of our store in Texas going bankrupt so I really needed to not only reduce my herd size but also sell some so that I could feed the others.
One of my friends who has a big alpaca ranch in Nebraska was going to annouce my alpacas for me to help sell them and he could never find them. After the sale he called and told me and told me how horrible it was.
I was horrified and even more so when Hartman a week later got the figures to me of the sale of my alpacas.
My females sold for $175 each and my males sold for $35 and my breeding male suri sold for $10
In the end Hartman sent me a check for $40
I was so distraught and told him "How could you do such a thing? You knew I was a widow without money!" He didn't care at all and basically told me that's the way it goes. Hartman gave me the names and phone numbers of the people who purchased my alpacas. I started calling them to A) find out where they were and were they being cared for and B) to see if I could buy them back.
Most of the people I was able to get ahold of were mid-western farmers who knew Hartman and come to his sales to pick up the alpacas cheap and then they turn around and re-sell them at livestock auctions all over the mid-west. They didn't know where my alpacas were.
I found one of my females that they had not off-loaded yet and the man told me that to buy her back I'd have to come up with $650. A week or so later he called back to ask for her ARI which I am withholding until this is resolved with Hartman and the BBB. He told me that she was riddled with worms and she was throwing up worms all over the place. I told him that was impossible as I have a deworming program for them every 3 to 4 months and their vet check was perfect when they left here. I have no idea what he has done to my female!
His wife though got on the line and told me that if they didn't get the ARI for her that they'd just turn her out until spring and then make her into sausage.
The wife also mentioned to me that the Hartman sale has never fetched good prices and they can't figure out why the alpaca breeders even send their alpacas there. She said they always pick them up for cheap to re-sell and that Hartman sometimes even calls them with free alpacas to give them!!
I am so horrified by all of this. Not just for the great loss that I suffered but I also contacted everyone at the sale and almost 100% of them said that they also lost tons of money and would never go back. I am concerned for the treatment of the alpacas. The trafficing in Alpacas that they are doing is not helping our industry at all. My alpacas were beautiful and most of them young with great bloodlines. Aparently there are a lot of good alpacas going to this sale as people don't know it's not a regular alpaca auction.
Elizabeth Warynick
Alpacas de Los Olivos
Los Olivos, CA
____________ _________ _________ __
From: Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@ westwind alpacas.com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 2:42:26 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Hartman Alpaca Sale in Nebraska
I encourage as many people to share, privately if necessary. (CC me
too!) :)
I've never been to one. Never consigned animals nor purchased from an
auction. Back "in the day" there was a very poor reputation amongst
alpaca breeders. I have heard many horror stories. Whether they are
all true is unknown.
Today, I see some large farms consigning some really nice animals,
which sell for heartbreaking prices. Some farms want to retire, some
are simply overstocked.
I do not like that NOTHING is online. You can't see the lots on a
website. There is very little information, if any, on the website. No
way to look up anything or do any research before the auction itself.
This is the 21st century. As much money as they make from this
auction, which is held more than once a year, they can surely afford
to hire someone to handle the website.
Heather
On May 28, 2009, at 1:33 PM, warynicke wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone had any experience with the Hartman Alpaca Sale in
> Nebraska?
>
>
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posted by Chaddo at 11:05 PM
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