Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Vaccinations

I'll get the details from my vet. It was her suggestion after we had one case of anaphylactic shock post regular AD/E shot-bad thing is the animal didn't even need it, just seemed to be the "thing" to do! We saved her using my husbands' epi pen, and then some long acting steroids to override the reaction. After that and the article that followed shortly in ALpacas Magazine about the other reactions to AD/E, she prescribed the compounded solution. I"ll call her in a week or so, to get details on ordering. This was my lesson on the "less is better and if they don't need it don't do it!" herd management. But I will always vaccinate for CD&T. After watching helplessly, while that little cria suffered horribly from a clostridial infection, I will never have it happen again because I didn't stay on schedule with the shots. Take care, Jane Levene

--
Jefferson Farms alpacas and LLamas
Denver CO
303-988-3080
jlevene@comcast.net

-------------- Original message --------------

> Jane, this is an excellent idea! Can you give us more of the
> specifics? For example, what is the exact type of vitamin
> concentration and type. Normally, vits A, D and E will not solvate
> in saline as they are oil soluble. But there are alternate forms of
> the vitamins that are conjugated and thus are water soluble.
>
> Great information.
>
> Steve H.
>
>
> At 04:55 PM 11/23/2005, you wrote:
> >whenever we need to use the injectable A,D/E, we get the saline
> >based formula which has to be mixed up at a compounding pharmacy. A
> >little more trouble than the "off the shelf" stuff, but it is my
> >understanding that most allergic reactions are due to the suspension
> >agent (an oil) rather than to the medicine (whether AD/E or CD/T
> >etc). ALpacas magazine had an article a few years ago on a farm that
> >lost more than a few crias to anaphylactic shock after A,D/E
> >shots. Also remember that an allergic reaction can occur up to an
> >hour or two post dose! Keep the epi on hand after giving shots, and
> >hang around for a while, watching those animals. Take care, Jane Levene
> >
> >--
> >Jefferson Farms alpacas and LLamas
> >Denver CO
> >303-988-3080
> >jlevene@comcast.net
> >
> >-------------- Original message --------------
> >
> > >
> > > This was what I was thinking about when I read the thread about
> > > injectable A,D and E. Everything has risks, and benefits, and strange
> > > after 40 years of no problems, suddenly there is a problem.
> > >
> > > Heidi Christensen
> > > Graham WA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > The use of a vaccine, or any drug, is always a risk versus benefit
> > > > situation. If you simply follow a "rule" without understanding the
> > > > risks and benefits behind the action you have the potential to
> > > > increase bad outcomes.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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>
> Steve . . . .
>
> TimberLake Farms, Inc.
> Tom Cameron, D.V.M. & Steve Hull, Ph.D.
> Edmond, Oklahoma
>
> A Full Service Alpaca Farm Including Seminars And Consulting
>
> www.timberlakefarms.net
>
> e-mails: mailto:steve@timberlakefarms.net
> mailto:tom@timberlakefarms.net
>
> Farm Telephone: 405 341-8444
> Farm Cell Telephone: 405 550-3023
> Farm Fax: 405 330-8444
>
> note: opinions made here are not and cannot be construed to be
> specific veterinary advice, diagnosis or treatments. Both Tom and
> Steve strongly suggest always checking with your own veterinarian.
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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Question Regarding Eataholic Cria

cpqcolor wrote:

>Hi Chris:
>
>He was 14.9 at birth, born at noon on Wednesday - when I weighed him
>a little while ago he was already 16.3. Running around, full of
>piss and vinegar (can I say that on here?). Mom has plenty of milk,
>we stripped several CCs early and since, and I've watched him nurse
>and he seems to have it down pat - it's hard to tell how much he
>actually gets each feeding - he's grey so his "milk mouth" is harder
>to see :)
>
>Paul
>
>
Paul,

Curious by one of your comments "Mom has plenty of milk, we stripped
several CCs early".

Why would you strip mom of any milk (other than a brief check to see
that the teats are not clogged/blocked and were working)?

Tim Wilson
Sterling Forrest Alpacas
Chagrin Falls, OH

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[Alpacasite] Re: Getting more people into the alpaca business...

Johh,

Your observations weren't lost on me! I was screaming about the need
for development of the fiber production/marketing end of the industry
in the US beyond a 'cottage industry' level 2 years ago... Not much
has changed in 2 years, at least from what is largely visible to the
general population. It's my personal belief that if the industry
doesn't grow into a fiber production industry, it will implode (at
least from where it is now) and may become a 'hobbyfarm playground'
for the few. I'm holding out hope for much, much more.

Owning, breeding, raising and selling expensive animals is a great
thing, no doubt, but there must be much more focus on what these
animals produce, imho. As we have discussed before, I know AFCNA is
working on that end of things. As a 'fur farmer', I'm looking forward
to the fruit of the AFCNA labors.

<passing a wave to Honey Creek, we'll come visit one of these days>

And, the 'current tax year view' Sonda mentioned is definitely a short
term 'hobby view'! We simply have to be more forward thinking!

Kevin
CLF ALpacas
Elk County Kansas
http://www.clflapacas.com

P.S. The great plains orchardgrass experiment is moving along
nicely.. stay tuned!

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "gatewayfarm" <johnwmerrell@e...>
wrote:
> > The issue here is that if this industry is going to grow long
term,
> that we need more new farms and ranches. If we don't address this
> issue, we could see a glut of alpacas at prices much lower than the
> current prices or sent to animal auctions for disposal or worse.
> >
>
> The industry can not grow LONG term under the current model. Your
> math is half the equation. The other half is the exponential growth
> of the National herd.
>
> There simply has to be focus and enregy on the fiber end of things.

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[Alpacasite] Re: Question Regarding Eataholic Cria

Hi Chris:

He was 14.9 at birth, born at noon on Wednesday - when I weighed him
a little while ago he was already 16.3. Running around, full of
piss and vinegar (can I say that on here?). Mom has plenty of milk,
we stripped several CCs early and since, and I've watched him nurse
and he seems to have it down pat - it's hard to tell how much he
actually gets each feeding - he's grey so his "milk mouth" is harder
to see :)

Paul

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Mills" <kusisqa@r...>
wrote:
>
> Paul,
> How much did the cria weigh at birth?
> I thought a cria nursing so often was a sign that they weren't
getting enough milk.
> I'm the worrier in the family, I would watch the little guy eating
hay and whatever else.
> Let us know how it goes.
> Take care,
> Chris
> Chris Mills
> Outback Alpacas
> 507 Peck Rd.
> Spencerport, NY 14559
> 585.392.3639
> kusisqa@r...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: cpqcolor
> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 6:38 PM
> Subject: [Alpacasite] Question Regarding Eataholic Cria
>
>
> Hi:
>
> We have a youngster that is approximately 30 hours old, and is
already
> digging in to mom's hay manger (they are in the barn for the
night)
> and is looking to nurse almost every 20 minutes (mom has very
good
> milk). He just seems to be an aggressive eater, but is it OK
for him
> to get hay and grass at this young an age? I wasn't sure if his
> stomach could handle the roughage, I've never had one start
picking
> this early (usually it is a week..maybe?). thanks in advance.
>
> Paul Kimball
> Bluff View Farms LLC
> Birchwood, TN 37308
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Alpacasite] Question Regarding Eataholic Cria

Paul,
How much did the cria weigh at birth?
I thought a cria nursing so often was a sign that they weren't getting enough milk.
I'm the worrier in the family, I would watch the little guy eating hay and whatever else.
Let us know how it goes.
Take care,
Chris
Chris Mills
Outback Alpacas
507 Peck Rd.
Spencerport, NY 14559
585.392.3639
kusisqa@rochester.rr.com

----- Original Message -----
From: cpqcolor
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 6:38 PM
Subject: [Alpacasite] Question Regarding Eataholic Cria

Hi:

We have a youngster that is approximately 30 hours old, and is already
digging in to mom's hay manger (they are in the barn for the night)
and is looking to nurse almost every 20 minutes (mom has very good
milk). He just seems to be an aggressive eater, but is it OK for him
to get hay and grass at this young an age? I wasn't sure if his
stomach could handle the roughage, I've never had one start picking
this early (usually it is a week..maybe?). thanks in advance.

Paul Kimball
Bluff View Farms LLC
Birchwood, TN 37308

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[Alpacasite] Re: Question Regarding Eataholic Cria

Jeanne, I forgot to mention that this fellow has gained over a pound
in about 24 hours - maybe he just has a big appetite. And that
weight gain was after he emptied his bladder.

Paul

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Jeanne Byington" <pikapaca@y...>
wrote:
>
> We had a little one that started "mouthing" everything, including
> weeds and old leaves at 2 days old! It left her with one bad case
of
> the runs (after having her tested to make sure that it wasn't any
> parasites or something else bad). I had to give her Probios for
about
> 2 weeks before her system could adjust. I know others suggested
> something else, but I can't remember what it was. As for the
constant
> nursing, I haven't seen that before either. I can't comment on
that.
> I'm sure someone else will chime in! There's lots of life
experience
> out there.
>
> Jeanne
> Chaffee, NY
>
>
> --- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "cpqcolor" <PaulKimball@e...>
wrote:
> >
> > Hi:
> >
> > We have a youngster that is approximately 30 hours old, and is
> already
> > digging in to mom's hay manger (they are in the barn for the
night)
> > and is looking to nurse almost every 20 minutes (mom has very
good
> > milk). He just seems to be an aggressive eater, but is it OK
for
> him
> > to get hay and grass at this young an age? I wasn't sure if his
> > stomach could handle the roughage, I've never had one start
picking
> > this early (usually it is a week..maybe?). thanks in advance.
> >
> > Paul Kimball
> > Bluff View Farms LLC
> > Birchwood, TN 37308
> >
>

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[Alpacasite] Re: Question Regarding Eataholic Cria

We had a little one that started "mouthing" everything, including
weeds and old leaves at 2 days old! It left her with one bad case of
the runs (after having her tested to make sure that it wasn't any
parasites or something else bad). I had to give her Probios for about
2 weeks before her system could adjust. I know others suggested
something else, but I can't remember what it was. As for the constant
nursing, I haven't seen that before either. I can't comment on that.
I'm sure someone else will chime in! There's lots of life experience
out there.

Jeanne
Chaffee, NY

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "cpqcolor" <PaulKimball@e...> wrote:
>
> Hi:
>
> We have a youngster that is approximately 30 hours old, and is
already
> digging in to mom's hay manger (they are in the barn for the night)
> and is looking to nurse almost every 20 minutes (mom has very good
> milk). He just seems to be an aggressive eater, but is it OK for
him
> to get hay and grass at this young an age? I wasn't sure if his
> stomach could handle the roughage, I've never had one start picking
> this early (usually it is a week..maybe?). thanks in advance.
>
> Paul Kimball
> Bluff View Farms LLC
> Birchwood, TN 37308
>

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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Getting more people into the alpaca business...

Wayne,

I agree with you....its a case by case situation. We have one dam here that throws off great cria when bred to good males.

If all we were breeding was $100k females to $600k males....well, it would be a very small few in the business....us for one would not be in the business. If we had that type of $$$, I think we would be in race horses instead of pacas...atleast you could win some big $$$ and do stud service later to boot...plus we like bourbon (lol)!

Jim Patrick
Patricks' Pastures Alpaca Ranch & Habitat
3030 N. Trinity Rd.
Denton, TX 76208
940-323-1011 (Ranch Office)
214-505-0754 (Jim Patrick's Mobile)
patrickspastures@verizon.net
www.patrickspastures.com
----- Original Message -----
From: jubileeacres@online.ie
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Getting more people into the alpaca business...

Hi Heidi:
Hope you don't mind me jumping in here.

The success or failure of any breeding program, in my opinion, depends
on matching the male and female to one another. The test of a breeding
program is if improvement is made over the sire and/or dam.

I purchased a female alpaca that did not look all that great herself
but had a stunning cria at her side and was bred back to the same male.
Looked like a good match of sire and dam to me. BTW we will be showing
the cria next spring.
--
Wayne
Southwestern Ontario,
Canada
http://jubileeacres.net
http://wordsmith.fateback.com

Quoting rchczc <Radched@aol.com>:
>
> To me, only a spectular male specimen should be bred. Should be true
> with females also, but at this point in the game, where do you draw
> the line? For instance, I have 4 girls that are conformationally
> correct (as far as I can tell anyway, without a breed standard), but
> they are course and have low annual yield. Sound like animals that
> should be removed? Yes, until I mention they are all over the age of
> 12, and have spectacular babies when bred to the above mentioned
> spectactular males. Now, should I really not breed them, in your
> opinion?

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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Getting more people into the alpaca business...

Heidi,

I am not a expert on breed standards, but what I look for is good conformation and crimp first and the micron count second in medium quality animals.

Genetics play a larger role in the high end animals...in my opinion.

I think we should breed only medium quality females who pass on the above. Males are another story, from our experience, many males carry the lions share of the genetics....not all...but many. It is for this reason that the males have to carry the good to great genetics.

All of our herdsirers have good to great genetics and ribbons to confirm this. We would not breed a low to medium quality male but instead would use the animal as a fiber animal....yes I said fiber....that's what it is all about....isn't it?

I hope I have answered your question.

We are not at all in favor on dumping poor quality animals on newbees...that would be unfair to them and would additionally harm the industry. But, not all animals sold have to be >$25k either.....we need balance in order to attract new ranches with modest incomes. This industry should not be a rich persons' playground....there's room for everyone at the alpaca table...again, in my opinion only.

Jim Patrick
Patricks' Pastures Alpaca Ranch & Habitat
3030 N. Trinity Rd.
Denton, TX 76208
940-323-1011 (Ranch Office)
214-505-0754 (Jim Patrick's Mobile)
patrickspastures@verizon.net
www.patrickspastures.com
----- Original Message -----
From: rchczc
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 4:28 PM
Subject: [Alpacasite] Re: Getting more people into the alpaca business...

Hi Jim,

I basically agree with everything else you have to say - I has been
true in other animal endevours I've been involved with (the drop out
rate of owners, that is).

I highlighted the below for one question. How do we define low
quality. I don't want to turn this into yet another breed standard
arguement, but its still a valid question.

We have been talking about culling. I agree with the liberal
definition of the word - even Royal Fawn is a cull to the farm that
sold him (IMO).

To me, only a spectular male specimen should be bred. Should be true
with females also, but at this point in the game, where do you draw
the line? For instance, I have 4 girls that are conformationally
correct (as far as I can tell anyway, without a breed standard), but
they are course and have low annual yield. Sound like animals that
should be removed? Yes, until I mention they are all over the age of
12, and have spectacular babies when bred to the above mentioned
spectactular males. Now, should I really not breed them, in your
opinion?

I have seen your ads looking for medium quality females for starter
farms. You are far from alone in that endevour. I have purchased
from 2 farms, one with hundreds of animals, one with 20. Both have
told me selling modestly priced females bred to spectacular males (my
words there) to beginners is their niche.

Heidi Christensen
Graham WA

>
> WE SHOULD NOT BE BREEDING LOW QUALITY MALES OR FEMALES FOR
SURE...but we need to find homes for the medium quality females and
gelded males. The high end females and males seems to find their
place in the current market place with no problem and are doing so at
very high prices.
>
> The issue here is that if this industry is going to grow long term,
that we need more new farms and ranches. If we don't address this
issue, we could see a glut of alpacas at prices much lower than the
current prices or sent to animal auctions for disposal or worse.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
>
>
> Jim Patrick
> Patricks' Pastures Alpaca Ranch & Habitat
> 3030 N. Trinity Rd.
> Denton, TX 76208
> 940-323-1011 (Ranch Office)
> 214-505-0754 (Jim Patrick's Mobile)
> patrickspastures@v...
> www.patrickspastures.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: sldear2001
> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 8:10 PM
> Subject: [Alpacasite] The llama song
>
>
> I just listened to the song again.
> Still love it.
>
>
>
>
>
> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
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> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@a...
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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Getting more people into the alpaca business...

Hi Heidi:
Hope you don't mind me jumping in here.

The success or failure of any breeding program, in my opinion, depends
on matching the male and female to one another. The test of a breeding
program is if improvement is made over the sire and/or dam.

I purchased a female alpaca that did not look all that great herself
but had a stunning cria at her side and was bred back to the same male.
Looked like a good match of sire and dam to me. BTW we will be showing
the cria next spring.
--
Wayne
Southwestern Ontario,
Canada
http://jubileeacres.net
http://wordsmith.fateback.com

Quoting rchczc <Radched@aol.com>:
>
> To me, only a spectular male specimen should be bred. Should be true
> with females also, but at this point in the game, where do you draw
> the line? For instance, I have 4 girls that are conformationally
> correct (as far as I can tell anyway, without a breed standard), but
> they are course and have low annual yield. Sound like animals that
> should be removed? Yes, until I mention they are all over the age of
> 12, and have spectacular babies when bred to the above mentioned
> spectactular males. Now, should I really not breed them, in your
> opinion?

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[Alpacasite] Dr. Tibary and BVDV

Copied from the most recent ARI BOD meeting minutes:

"Dr. Tibary then discussed the status of the Bovine Diarrhea Virus (BVDV)
problem. He said that current lab tests for the virus are difficult to interpret,
especially considering the fact that there are many “persistently infected
animals” (“PIs”) who may not test positive for the virus and who are the most
dangerous agents of the virus’s transmission. He urged us to support research
in this area."

Has anyone talked with or otherwise heard more of Dr. Tibary's understanding
of BVDV and alpacas? I'm especially interested in "...current lab tests for
the virus are difficult to interpret.." as I was not aware of that.

Elden Harms
Token Creek Alpacas LLC
Sun Prairie WI

Looking for superior customer service? Lean on Token Creek Alpacas, you'll
be well supported.

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[Alpacasite] Re: Breeding Maidens (again)

For us it's "Everything is for sale". No matter if it's my best
breeding female, or a 2 month old cria, or even my new alpaca scale!
I am not an alpaca peeper or an alpaca keeper. I am an alpaca
breeder and this is my business....no matter how cute and adorable
they may be or if they always give you a black baby when bred to
black. I am not getting rid of my unwanted, I am selling both wanted
and "unwanted for our specific breeding program" alpacas.

Jeanne
Gemstone Alpacas
Chaffee, NY
http://www.gemstonealpacas.com

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Kathryn Coursey" <kathryn@c...>
wrote:
>
> i could not agree more with this statement.. 'one man's trash may
be
> another man's gold mine.' That ellusive eliment i need for my herd
> may just be THERE in the one YOU decide has no more bennifits
> to your herd. no more bennifits for YOUR herd... but may he have
bennifits
> to MINE...
>
> Kathryn & Robert Coursey

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[Alpacasite] Question Regarding Eataholic Cria

Hi:

We have a youngster that is approximately 30 hours old, and is already
digging in to mom's hay manger (they are in the barn for the night)
and is looking to nurse almost every 20 minutes (mom has very good
milk). He just seems to be an aggressive eater, but is it OK for him
to get hay and grass at this young an age? I wasn't sure if his
stomach could handle the roughage, I've never had one start picking
this early (usually it is a week..maybe?). thanks in advance.

Paul Kimball
Bluff View Farms LLC
Birchwood, TN 37308

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[Alpacasite] Newbie Wannabe

Just a real short note...
I've been researching the Alpaca lifestyle, raising, breeding etc. We've got some land and will be putting a house on it within a year, so unless we board (agist?) it'll be some time before we get started. I'll refrain my opinions until I feel I know what I'm talking about, but I'm really enjoying the posts. Thanks for letting me join. If there's anyone within my vicinity, drop me a line, I'd like to get a more "close-up" and personal view of the Alpaca lifestyle. In the meantime, I'll be lurking...
Thanks!
Tom in Omaha NE / Missouri Valley IA

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RE: [Alpacasite] Newbie Wannabe

Hi Tom,

Welcome to the group!

I used to live in Papillion---my husband is Air Force :). I know there are
alpaca ranches in Nebraska---the names escape me at the moment. You can try
a Google search for Nebraska/Iowa alpaca farms/ranches. Also check with
www.alpacanation.com.

I agisted my first 2 years, and it was a great way to get acquainted with
the animals, taking care of them (I was 30 minutes away), and seeing how an
alpaca business works. I recommend it highly. Great training!

Regards,

Jeannie Wells
Wellspring Suri Alpacas, LLC
<http://www.wellspringsurialpacas.com/>
http://www.WellspringSuriAlpacas.com
210-698-8018
Boerne, Texas
Also on AlpacaNation:
http://www.alpacanation.com/farmsandbreeders/03_viewfarm.asp?name=11752

What we see depends mainly on what we look for. --- John Lubbock

-----Original Message-----
From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Radman
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 4:44 PM
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alpacasite] Newbie Wannabe

Just a real short note...
I've been researching the Alpaca lifestyle, raising, breeding etc. We've
got some land and will be putting a house on it within a year, so unless we
board (agist?) it'll be some time before we get started. I'll refrain my
opinions until I feel I know what I'm talking about, but I'm really enjoying
the posts. Thanks for letting me join. If there's anyone within my
vicinity, drop me a line, I'd like to get a more "close-up" and personal
view of the Alpaca lifestyle. In the meantime, I'll be lurking...
Thanks!
Tom in Omaha NE / Missouri Valley IA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Alpacasite] Re: Getting more people into the alpaca business...

Hi Jim,

I basically agree with everything else you have to say - I has been
true in other animal endevours I've been involved with (the drop out
rate of owners, that is).

I highlighted the below for one question. How do we define low
quality. I don't want to turn this into yet another breed standard
arguement, but its still a valid question.

We have been talking about culling. I agree with the liberal
definition of the word - even Royal Fawn is a cull to the farm that
sold him (IMO).

To me, only a spectular male specimen should be bred. Should be true
with females also, but at this point in the game, where do you draw
the line? For instance, I have 4 girls that are conformationally
correct (as far as I can tell anyway, without a breed standard), but
they are course and have low annual yield. Sound like animals that
should be removed? Yes, until I mention they are all over the age of
12, and have spectacular babies when bred to the above mentioned
spectactular males. Now, should I really not breed them, in your
opinion?

I have seen your ads looking for medium quality females for starter
farms. You are far from alone in that endevour. I have purchased
from 2 farms, one with hundreds of animals, one with 20. Both have
told me selling modestly priced females bred to spectacular males (my
words there) to beginners is their niche.

Heidi Christensen
Graham WA

>
> WE SHOULD NOT BE BREEDING LOW QUALITY MALES OR FEMALES FOR
SURE...but we need to find homes for the medium quality females and
gelded males. The high end females and males seems to find their
place in the current market place with no problem and are doing so at
very high prices.
>
> The issue here is that if this industry is going to grow long term,
that we need more new farms and ranches. If we don't address this
issue, we could see a glut of alpacas at prices much lower than the
current prices or sent to animal auctions for disposal or worse.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
>
>
> Jim Patrick
> Patricks' Pastures Alpaca Ranch & Habitat
> 3030 N. Trinity Rd.
> Denton, TX 76208
> 940-323-1011 (Ranch Office)
> 214-505-0754 (Jim Patrick's Mobile)
> patrickspastures@v...
> www.patrickspastures.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: sldear2001
> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 8:10 PM
> Subject: [Alpacasite] The llama song
>
>
> I just listened to the song again.
> Still love it.
>
>
>
>
>
> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@a...
> http://aaalpacas.com
>
>
>
> TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>
>
>
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[Alpacasite] Re: Getting more people into the alpaca business...

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "gatewayfarm" <johnwmerrell@e...>
wrote:
> Yes

As John's associate on the AFCNA board I'd like to add a few words (or
a lot of them) to John's answer if I may!

Yes, we have a few things "cooking" that are more along the lines of
what our members have been asking the co-op to do for so long.
Premature to go into details, etc., but we are surely trying to make
that North American fiber market that we've all been talking about.

One of the reasons I ran for AFCNA board is because I believe that in
order to sustain the top end, high dollar breeders market we must have
a very large base of fiber production farms. In order for there to be
a large number of practical and hard headed farmers willing to run
significant size herds of fiber alpacas in their pastures, there has
to be a profitable commercial market for fiber. No fiber market, no
fiber farmers, and the top falls over. So, I am just trying to do my
part to create the NA market that I believe is needed by serving on
the co-op board.

What would be really nice is if a few more people, people with real
relevant skills and time and lots of heart (or any one of those 3!!),
would take a more hands-on active role in the co-op. We're are
currently forming a nominating committee for our next election. We
need volunteers to serve on the nominating committee but more
importantly we would really love to hear from some members who would
be interested to serve on the board.

Let me know if you'd like to learn more about this, OK?

Thanks
Starr Cash
Venezia Dream Farm
Asheville, NC

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[Alpacasite] Re: Getting more people into the alpaca business...

I await developments with bated breath!!

Jan

>--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, Jan Sherrill <pacamom@l...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> So, John, is AFCNA working on plans to keep us from
>> imploding? It's going to have to be someone other than AOBA or ARI
>I
>> think as both those bodies can barely keep head above water with
>> current requirements.
>>
>
>Yes
>
>John Merrell
>Gateway Farm Alpacas
><http://www.gateway-alpacas.com>http://www.gateway-alpacas.com
>Alpaca, a natural elegance...
>
>
>
>
>
>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
>the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
>message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@alpacaweb.com
><http://aaalpacas.com>http://aaalpacas.com
>
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[Alpacasite] Re: Getting more people into the alpaca business...

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, Jan Sherrill <pacamom@l...> wrote:
>
>
> So, John, is AFCNA working on plans to keep us from
> imploding? It's going to have to be someone other than AOBA or ARI
I
> think as both those bodies can barely keep head above water with
> current requirements.
>

Yes

John Merrell
Gateway Farm Alpacas
http://www.gateway-alpacas.com
Alpaca, a natural elegance...

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Re: [Alpacasite] Getting more people into the alpaca business...

Hi,
I, too, don't quite understand the 10 to 2 ratio. Also,
just a very non-technical survey of one group of alpaca people a few
years ago had about 4 out of 15 who were in the process of building a
new house. That alone shows we aren't very typical as only a tiny,
tiny, percentage of the population build houses. AOBA may have some
demographics which would be enlightening.

A number of the original alpaca farms have left the business
in the last few years. You might get help from AOBA to identify them
and do a survey of why they left the business. But It seems to me at
the rate we are getting new people, it might not be a problem. We
have more than doubled the size of AOBA in the last four years and
that doesn't even count those who don't belong to AOBA.

So, John, is AFCNA working on plans to keep us from
imploding? It's going to have to be someone other than AOBA or ARI I
think as both those bodies can barely keep head above water with
current requirements.

Cheers,
Jan Sherrill
Celestial Alpacas
Central Coast of California
Templeton
805/238-2628

>In a message dated 11/25/05 10:24:01 AM Central Standard Time,
>patrickspastures@verizon.net writes:
>
>> For every 2 established farms leaving the industry, we are going to have to
>> find 10 new entrees. Most likely, the largest portion of the 'newbees' will
>> be in the 30 - 45 year old age group with a couple for kids still at home
>> and with limited liquid assets. My feeling is for every 10 newbees, here's
>> what the fallout might look like within 5 years:
>> a.. 4 - 5 of the 10 will cease doing businesses due to divorce (the
>> national average)
>> b.. 1.5 will have to take care of older parent or relatives, a partner or
>> themselves due to illness and not have time for the animals
>> c.. .5 will have financial issues and liquidate
>> d.. .5 will lose interest and fire sale
>> This means only about 2 will make it past the 5 year mark....or that for
>> every 2 current alpaca business that have been around more than 5
>>years and have
>> to leave the business, that we will need 10 replacements just to stay even.
>>
>
>Not necessarily disagreeing with your numbers but I have a couple of
>questions;
>1) How do you arrive at 10 replacement owners for every two leaving?
>2) Are items A through D representative of alpaca owners? Is it
>statistically appropriate to take national averages and apply them
>to a very, very small
>segment of the population?
>
>Elden Harms
>Token Creek Alpacas LLC
>Sun Prairie WI
>
>Looking for superior customer service? Lean on Token Creek Alpacas, you'll
>be well supported.
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Alpacasite] Re: Breeding Maidens (again)

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "AvianaFarms" <kenneth.madl@o...>
wrote:

>
> Strangely enough, however, all the livestock industries that focus
> on those reproductive traits that Mr. Merrell mentioned all have
> breed standards.
>

Even more telling, though, is the fact that they actually have
multiple breeds...

Oh, and a market for an end product...

Food for thought

John Merrell
Gateway Farm Alpacas
http://www.gateway-alpacas.com
Alpaca, a natural elegance...

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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Getting more people into the alpaca business...

Remember the hypothesis of the 2 old ranches out...need 10 new ranches in...
Jim Patrick
Patricks' Pastures Alpaca Ranch & Habitat
3030 N. Trinity Rd.
Denton, TX 76208
940-323-1011 (Ranch Office)
214-505-0754 (Jim Patrick's Mobile)
patrickspastures@verizon.net
www.patrickspastures.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Sondac
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 11:02 AM
Subject: [Alpacasite] Re: Getting more people into the alpaca business...

I agree with you John.

We are not seeing a lack of new farms. Quite the opposite. For
example, a couple of years ago there were no farms in Kansas listed on
Alpacanation; now there are 18. In 2002, there were 21 farm members
in MOPACA; today there are 76.

The amount of interest that we see every day from young families
wanting to get started in alpacas is truly amazing.

But, the point is how are we going to plan a long term strategy for
the industry 10 years from now. I see very few people who are
thinking beyond the next tax year.

Sonda Caffrey
Honey Creek Farm
Gardner, KS

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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Getting more people into the alpaca business...

All good points John....
Jim Patrick
Patricks' Pastures Alpaca Ranch & Habitat
3030 N. Trinity Rd.
Denton, TX 76208
940-323-1011 (Ranch Office)
214-505-0754 (Jim Patrick's Mobile)
patrickspastures@verizon.net
www.patrickspastures.com
----- Original Message -----
From: gatewayfarm
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 10:50 AM
Subject: [Alpacasite] Re: Getting more people into the alpaca business...

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Patricks' Pastures Alpaca Ranch &
Habitat" <patrickspastures@v...> wrote:
>
>
>
> The issue here is that if this industry is going to grow long term,
that we need more new farms and ranches. If we don't address this
issue, we could see a glut of alpacas at prices much lower than the
current prices or sent to animal auctions for disposal or worse.
>

The industry can not grow LONG term under the current model. Your
math is half the equation. The other half is the exponential growth
of the National herd.

There simply has to be focus and enregy on the fiber end of things.
And that is far beyond the scope of the numerous mini-mills that have
sprouted over the past few years. We are already beyond the capacity
of any mini-mill, and the costs associated with small scale processing
are prohibitive.

We can not market our way out of the facts, contrary to what some
might believe. Nor will long term financing to new buyers negate the
facts.

We could however plan our way out of where we are quickly putting
ourselves. And, collectively we can establish the foundation that
will carry us forward on a sustainable path.

I know people that have left the industry not because of ill health,
divorce or the other reasons that you have listed, but solely because
of the lack of long range planning.

John Merrell
Gateway Farm Alpacas
http://www.gateway-alpacas.com
Alpaca, a natural elegance...

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Re: [Alpacasite] Getting more people into the alpaca business...

In a message dated 11/25/05 10:24:01 AM Central Standard Time,
patrickspastures@verizon.net writes:

> For every 2 established farms leaving the industry, we are going to have to
> find 10 new entrees. Most likely, the largest portion of the 'newbees' will
> be in the 30 - 45 year old age group with a couple for kids still at home
> and with limited liquid assets. My feeling is for every 10 newbees, here's
> what the fallout might look like within 5 years:
> a.. 4 - 5 of the 10 will cease doing businesses due to divorce (the
> national average)
> b.. 1.5 will have to take care of older parent or relatives, a partner or
> themselves due to illness and not have time for the animals
> c.. .5 will have financial issues and liquidate
> d.. .5 will lose interest and fire sale
> This means only about 2 will make it past the 5 year mark....or that for
> every 2 current alpaca business that have been around more than 5 years and have
> to leave the business, that we will need 10 replacements just to stay even.
>

Not necessarily disagreeing with your numbers but I have a couple of
questions;
1) How do you arrive at 10 replacement owners for every two leaving?
2) Are items A through D representative of alpaca owners? Is it
statistically appropriate to take national averages and apply them to a very, very small
segment of the population?

Elden Harms
Token Creek Alpacas LLC
Sun Prairie WI

Looking for superior customer service? Lean on Token Creek Alpacas, you'll
be well supported.

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[Alpacasite] Re: Breeding Maidens (again)

On Wed. 23 Nov 2005, "gatewayfarm" <johnwmerrell@e...> wrote:

> If, as an industry, we are truly interested in developing a fiber
> based future, we really need to focus our breeding on production
> traits. By this I mean we need animals that require the least
> amount of intervention possible. ...
>
> The current industry practices are not sustainable. $25-30 per
> head for shearing is one example. Throw in pharmacutical parasite
> control, specialized feeds, routine veterinary interventions,
> vitamin supplements, specialized mineral supplements, etc., and
> any chance of a profit has vanished.
>
> We need animals that are reproductively sound and that are hardy
> and healthy. That may in fact require some changes in breeding
> selections, and some significant culling - even of some very nice
> looking animals.
>
> I think you will find in other livestock endeavors that many
> problems we see addressed repeatedly on alpacasite would not be
> tolerated. Prolapses, hernias, consistently slipped pregnancies,
> poor milkers requiring hand feeding, still births - the list is
> actually pretty lengthy - all of these would be grounds for
> permanent culling, particularly if the issue showed up more than
> once, or more than one of the issues were experienced in the same
> animal. ...
>
> And, of course, this returns once again to the issue of BS, since
> many of the issues I list above will/can not be contained in a
> simple description of the "ideal" animal.

I agree that the alpaca industry as it stands now will never be
profitable, except through the sale of animals.

Strangely enough, however, all the livestock industries that focus
on those reproductive traits that Mr. Merrell mentioned all have
breed standards.

Ken Madl
Aviana Farms

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Re: [Alpacasite] Help! Safe-guard question

Ellen, the fenbendazole (Panacur, Safe-Guard) dose for the majority
of gut worms is 20 mg/kg. When converted to ml, this comes out to 1
ml/10 lbs of camelid for three consecutive days. There are a couple
of worms that do require a higher dose and more consecutive days.

One key is to re-check the fecal about two weeks after worming with
the above dose (1 ml/10 lbs). If you still see evidence of
parasites, then you need to increase the dose, increase the number of
consecutive administration days or both.

Steve H.

At 10:03 AM 11/25/2005, you wrote:
>isn't dr anderson's current recommendation 8 times the cattle dose? We have
>quit using it, since it seems about as effective as feeding them cake
>frosting.... We are currently using decto, valbazen and levamasol (
>reluctantly). I have been reading some interesting info on using granulated
>garlic, we may try that as a supplemental wormer. ellen/colrain
>
>
>
>
>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
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>message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>http://aaalpacas.com
>
>
>
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>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Steve . . . .

TimberLake Farms, Inc.
Tom Cameron, D.V.M. & Steve Hull, Ph.D.
Edmond, Oklahoma

A Full Service Alpaca Farm Including Seminars And Consulting

www.timberlakefarms.net

e-mails: mailto:steve@timberlakefarms.net
mailto:tom@timberlakefarms.net

Farm Telephone: 405 341-8444
Farm Cell Telephone: 405 550-3023
Farm Fax: 405 330-8444

note: opinions made here are not and cannot be construed to be
specific veterinary advice, diagnosis or treatments. Both Tom and
Steve strongly suggest always checking with your own veterinarian.

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