Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Saturday, October 24, 2009

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Micron Testing clarified and EPD

 

It was pointed out by a certain Alpaca Mill that the micron information can be falsified from one animal to another.  If one buys an animal with a low micron count - as provided by the seller - it just might not be from the animal you bought.  Since that Mill brought up that thought, I wonder how many times they have done this exact same thing...
 
I am not impressed with the info in micron counts, and do not see any reason for it.  I see it as something to try to impress some one to buy the animal.  So you spend $XXXX for that almighty low micron count.  Then as the animal ages, you have bought an animal with a higher count.  I dont see the point.
 
Jim Guerin
Jimmini Farm
Yelm, WA
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Micron Testing clarified and EPD

 

Is anyone else besides me frustrated at all the information provided in these micron tests?  It is really off-putting to a new breeder and honestly, the confusion makes me just want to ignore them completely.  Just curious as to whether anyone else feels the same way. 
 
As a spinner and knitter, I'm starting to think why bother with testing, I go more by the feel of the yarn than anything else nowadays.  One of our mediocre micron count females produces our very best yarn on the ranch.  Can someone please explain to me why we need lower microns if the yarn produced by higher micron animals is better quality?  Isn't that what we are raising these animals for, better yarn quality or lower micron counts?
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
Recent Activity
Visit Your Group
Share Photos

Put your favorite

photos and

more online.

Search Ads

Get new customers.

List your web site

in Yahoo! Search.

Weight Loss Group

on Yahoo! Groups

Get support and

make friends online.

.

__,_._,___

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Micron Testing clarified and EPD

 

Is anyone else besides me frustrated at all the information provided in these micron tests?  It is really off-putting to a new breeder and honestly, the confusion makes me just want to ignore them completely.  Just curious as to whether anyone else feels the same way. 
 
As a spinner and knitter, I'm starting to think why bother with testing, I go more by the feel of the yarn than anything else nowadays.  One of our mediocre micron count females produces our very best yarn on the ranch.  Can someone please explain to me why we need lower microns if the yarn produced by higher micron animals is better quality?  Isn't that what we are raising these animals for, better yarn quality or lower micron counts?
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
Recent Activity
Visit Your Group
New business?

Get new customers.

List your web site

in Yahoo! Search.

Share Photos

Put your favorite

photos and

more online.

Weight Management Group

on Yahoo! Groups

Join the challenge

and lose weight.

.

__,_._,___

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Micron Testing clarified and EPD

 

Well, I'm not going to try to fight a battle with those who prefer the OFDA 2000. However, that testing protocol is not recognized by the IWTO, and those results are not able to be included in the EPD database. 


I had a fleece with tender breaks a couple of years ago. I can tell at what time of year it occurred, and I can guess as to the reason, just as easily as if I'm looking at a graph telling me my fleece is tender. If a fleece has tender breaks in many places along the length of the staple, again, you can guess at the reasons from your own observations as easily as looking at a graph. And if a fleece is tender, it is not useful at all in commercial processing, so a processor is not going to want it whether it's 17µ or 22.5µ, especially the sample in question which was only 2.5" to begin with. 

That anomalous tender spot that is averaged in to give you a false low AFD is actually a disservice to those who may want to make use of a sire who tested 17µ at 2 years, rather than the truthful 22.5µ at 2 years.

Heather


On Oct 24, 2009, at 9:02 AM, Rebecca Wells wrote:

Heather Zeleny wrote:


For example:
I know of an animal with a first year AFD very similar to one of my 
boy's first year AFD, 16.6 as tested by Yocom McColl.

The second year, the owner tested on the OFDA 2000. The staple length 
was 75mm, just about 2.5" The AFD came back at 17.4µ. However, 
according to the OFDA 2000, the beginning micron was a bit over 18 at 
the weathered end. Between 5 and 15mm, the micron drops to about 16µ, 
then steadily rises over the course of the growth period to 22.5 at 
70mm.

This sample, tested at Yocom McColl would have been recorded as 22.5µ

This sample has a 6µ variance. In fact, this shows that the fiber is 
tender at 15mm, perhaps there was stress of illness which made the 
micron so low during that time. But surely this fleece isn't a 
uniform 17.4µ

Finally, it seems that really, the accurate micron of this boy at two 
years of age is 22.5µ. Because that was his micron at that age.


So what would happen if the fiber sample had been sent to Yocom McColl at the timeframe when the fleece was at 15mm? Or more realistically, whatever was affecting the animal at the 15mm point, happened to coincide with the 2yr shearing time? Do you see how that would also skew the results just as surely? However, by taking the true average of the fiber diameter over the course of a year, the AFD is a "more average average", if you get my point. If in fact this animals fleece is coarsening due to age, the subsequent tests will reflect that with increased AFD results. However, the breeder can look at that information and check to see if the increased micron count from 15mm to 70mm with some environmental changes, such as a change in diet. Then, if so, that can be factored in and perhaps changes can be made to correct whatever environmental factors might be contributing to the increased fiber strength. However, if no changes happened in the animals environment that might explain the changes, it might be genetic.

But one thing for sure, you don't get that kind of useful information from a Yocom McColl test.


Rebecca Wells
Alpacadero Alpacas
Seattle, WA

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
Recent Activity
Visit Your Group
Give Back

Yahoo! for Good

Get inspired

by a good cause.

Y! Toolbar

Get it Free!

easy 1-click access

to your groups.

Yahoo! Groups

Start a group

in 3 easy steps.

Connect with others.

.

__,_._,___

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

[AlpacaTalk] Re: Micron Testing clarified and EPD

 

Heather Zeleny wrote:


For example:
I know of an animal with a first year AFD very similar to one of my 
boy's first year AFD, 16.6 as tested by Yocom McColl.

The second year, the owner tested on the OFDA 2000. The staple length 
was 75mm, just about 2.5" The AFD came back at 17.4µ. However, 
according to the OFDA 2000, the beginning micron was a bit over 18 at 
the weathered end. Between 5 and 15mm, the micron drops to about 16µ, 
then steadily rises over the course of the growth period to 22.5 at 
70mm.

This sample, tested at Yocom McColl would have been recorded as 22.5µ

This sample has a 6µ variance. In fact, this shows that the fiber is 
tender at 15mm, perhaps there was stress of illness which made the 
micron so low during that time. But surely this fleece isn't a 
uniform 17.4µ

Finally, it seems that really, the accurate micron of this boy at two 
years of age is 22.5µ. Because that was his micron at that age.


So what would happen if the fiber sample had been sent to Yocom McColl at the timeframe when the fleece was at 15mm? Or more realistically, whatever was affecting the animal at the 15mm point, happened to coincide with the 2yr shearing time? Do you see how that would also skew the results just as surely? However, by taking the true average of the fiber diameter over the course of a year, the AFD is a "more average average", if you get my point. If in fact this animals fleece is coarsening due to age, the subsequent tests will reflect that with increased AFD results. However, the breeder can look at that information and check to see if the increased micron count from 15mm to 70mm with some environmental changes, such as a change in diet. Then, if so, that can be factored in and perhaps changes can be made to correct whatever environmental factors might be contributing to the increased fiber strength. However, if no changes happened in the animals environment that might explain the changes, it might be genetic.

But one thing for sure, you don't get that kind of useful information from a Yocom McColl test.


Rebecca Wells
Alpacadero Alpacas
Seattle, WA




__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
Recent Activity
Visit Your Group
Yahoo! Groups

Mental Health Zone

Mental Health

Learn More

Yahoo! Groups

Mom Power

Discover doing more

for your family

Yahoo! Groups

Small Business Group

Share experiences

with owners like you

.

__,_._,___