alpacas: 08/04/08

Re: [AlpacaTalk] guardian dogs

Wendy:

So sorry for the loss of your Rottie Friend. Losing animals is a
real heart ache and it takes time to get over it.

I would never try to talk someone into getting an animal that they
couldn't be committed to, but it may be worth your while to check out
the yahoo group, working lgds. I've learned bunches from those
folks! If you have any interest at all, it may be worth just
checking out the posts and perhaps learn something in hindsight -- or
be supported in your decision to get rid of the dog. I'm certainly
no expert, but there are dogs that just don't work out........and
sometimes they are "just plain nuts". It sounds like you may have
gotten one of those kinds. It's truly unfortunate for both you and
the dog. It's really unfortunate that the breeder wouldn't take the
dog back and make good on your efforts to get a good working dog....a
good one is worth it's weight in gold.

Sorry for all the losses you have suffered and hope that you can heal quickly.
Susan

Susan Forman & Eric Jenkins
Dewey Morning Alpacas
423 Greenfield-Sabina Rd.
Washington Court House, OH 43160
740-636-1899 Home
937-901-1509 Cell
http://www.alpacanation.com/deweymorning.asp
Home of Huey, Dewey and Louie

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[AlpacaTalk] guardian dogs

hi - the dog we got was almost five months old, and we were told she worked with her mom with llamas and sheep -

the breeder would not take her back - only told me to put an electronic collar on her that would zap her when she barked - that is not my way of dealing with animals of any kind

it was a nightmare - i actually thought she was crazy - maybe bred too close

i know people who have alpacas and have great pyr. dogs - they love them - maybe we just got an odd-ball, but i'm not going to try it again - we spent $1200 on the dog plus $300 for spaying, shots etc - and as we are "alpaca rich and cash poor" that really hurt - replacing all the equipment and fencing she destroyed will cost much more and take a few years

she went to a home where the folks specialize in "special needs" dogs - and yes they put the electronic collar on her - maybe i'm just not tough enough for a great pyr. -

my old rottweiler guarded the front fence until she passed away 2 weeks ago (almost 15 and she still thought she could kick butt as a guard dog), and i have a guard llama now who is worth his (considerable) weight in gold. I'm also putting up electric fencing - i hope that will do it.

We will get another dog of some kind to guard the house and front fence, but i'm not in any hurry - still grieving for my old girl.
Wendy
DreamWeaver Alpacas

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] guardian dogs

Wendy:

So sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with lgd's. We have
two female pyrs that I adore. One was about 2 when we got her and a
rescue, the other was about a year....and that was about 1.5 yrs
ago. Both girls are fabulous.....one is spayed, the other -- well,
just haven't gotten to it yet. The rescue can be somewhat food
aggressive, so I'm careful about feeding them away from everyone
else......it's the least they deserve for their efforts. The rescue
is also the better guard. When a stranger is in the pasture, she
will circle and bark ........never really threatening, but mostly to
just make sure the 'stranger' knows she's there. All other times,
she will come to me and even walk with her body in physical contact
with mine. But a stranger about and she won't come near me -- just
keeps a watchful eye on everything. It did create a problem with a
drive by breeding, so we now know she has to be taken out of the
pasture and gets a drive around the neighborhood if we have a boy
come here for breeding. The other dog, well, she'll roll for anybody
walking in the gate! I have faith that she would recognize a
problem, though. We also got some adult guineas with only minimal
problems.......and all is well now, though they'd love to eat the
keets......and will steal eggs if given the opportunity which is okay with me!

If you ever decide to get another lgd, check out the breeder
first. There are some good ones out there that will assist and take
back dogs that don't work as guardians. We got very lucky with ours
and I am so grateful I can't express it adequately. Then again, we
started will a full grown dog and one that wasn't completely puppy
any longer. In any event, they are wonderful if you get good ones
and I cherish their presence every day. My mind rests more
comfortably when I hear them do their usual nighttime barking,
alerting any 'bad guys' that they're out there working.........they
more than earn their food and the few treats they
get................so I encourage egg stealing from the
guineas!......especially since we just got blessed with 27 little
ones that I'm now trying to find homes for....

Susan

Susan Forman & Eric Jenkins
Dewey Morning Alpacas
423 Greenfield-Sabina Rd.
Washington Court House, OH 43160
740-636-1899 Home
937-901-1509 Cell
http://www.alpacanation.com/deweymorning.asp
Home of Huey, Dewey and Louie

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] guardian dogs

Hi.
I was wondering how old the dog was you bought.
We purchased Maremma's which are similar.
But we bought one at 12 weeks old & raised her
with our alpacas. As puppies, they will sometimes play with certain animals.
A month or so later, we bought another 12 wk old puppy
and now they do there job as LGD and they will play with each other.
All of these dogs have to be handled firmly as puppies. They will get
very large and they need to know who the master is.
Having two, is much better than one.

----- Original Message -----
From: Wendy Edwards
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 1:30 PM
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] guardian dogs

hi Janice - i've been following along on your conversations - my sympathies on your alpaca's injuries - i am treating a couple of abcesses right now, and flies are a huge issue - i used your duct tape solution on one girl who keeps scratching her abcess and it works well

re the dogs - i bought a great pyrenees "guardian herd dog" who, the breeder told me, had been raised with livestock, knew her role with protecting them blah blah blah - she turned out to be a total disaster - she harassed the alpacas, she destroyed much of our equipment and fences, plus doors etc and she turned on my daughter (who was carrying my infant grandson in her arms) and i had to beat her off with a hoe so we could borth get safely into the house. We worked with her for 9 months to try and train her, but when she started going after my neighbors chickens and goats, that was it.

When i called the breeder after a month or so, the breeder denied any knowledge, and refused to take the dog back - i continued to contact the breeder asking for guidance but they stopped answering my calls or emails. We paid a huge amount of money for this dog.and we had to protect the alpacas from her.

the point of my story is BEWARE of what you buy as a guardian herd dog - be very very careful or you may just be buying another predator
good luck with this
Wendy
DreamWeaver Alpacas
Port Alberni BC

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[AlpacaTalk] guardian dogs

hi Janice - i've been following along on your conversations - my sympathies on your alpaca's injuries - i am treating a couple of abcesses right now, and flies are a huge issue - i used your duct tape solution on one girl who keeps scratching her abcess and it works well

re the dogs - i bought a great pyrenees "guardian herd dog" who, the breeder told me, had been raised with livestock, knew her role with protecting them blah blah blah - she turned out to be a total disaster - she harassed the alpacas, she destroyed much of our equipment and fences, plus doors etc and she turned on my daughter (who was carrying my infant grandson in her arms) and i had to beat her off with a hoe so we could borth get safely into the house. We worked with her for 9 months to try and train her, but when she started going after my neighbors chickens and goats, that was it.

When i called the breeder after a month or so, the breeder denied any knowledge, and refused to take the dog back - i continued to contact the breeder asking for guidance but they stopped answering my calls or emails. We paid a huge amount of money for this dog.and we had to protect the alpacas from her.

the point of my story is BEWARE of what you buy as a guardian herd dog - be very very careful or you may just be buying another predator
good luck with this
Wendy
DreamWeaver Alpacas
Port Alberni BC

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[AlpacaTalk] Don't bother reading this unless you're serious about a rural business

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[AlpacaTalk] RE: Odd Injury

<<Hi Janice,
Often with weird injuries, the clues lie in how your pacas were acting
when it was discovered.
Were they acting frightened, spooked, or jumpy? Or were they acting normal?
If it was a predator they would have been acting very differently,
perhaps long after the attack.

Personally I don't see a big cat, or any other type of predator that
would mark like that leaving the animal alive. Probably it was your big
male; time to trim the fighting teeth! :))
I remember getting this male, he was three years old and had never had
his teeth trimmed (and boy howdy did he need it!!) I have NEVER seen
fighting teeth like that!

Best wishes for a speedy recovery for your boy.
Slainte~
Rachelle>>

Thanks Rachelle, I am headed out right now to change his dressings
again; the wounds seem to be healing up ok. Goldenseal is amazing. The
deepest wound is still a long way from healing, but is coming along. I
am still worried about infection and flies.

That was the thing, they were acting perfectly normal; but then I've
never seen them act any other way LOL.
The bobcats around here are not large; that is why my friend said they
don't normally go after such a relatively large animal and it had to be
a defensive action.
My intact male is app 3/4 yo. I have never examined his teeth. He is
SO shy and skittish I don't mess with him unless absolutely necessary.
I wish we had checked those teeth out during shearing.

I wish I could stop obsessing about the whole incident. If the duck had
not disappeared at the same time, I would not give it thought and assume
it was the male (and he did have some faint blood on the underside of
his neck that morning, like from rubbing up against SnowBall). And tho
the alpacas have been acting normal, the ducks were VERY skittish the
following few nights, and I could tell very grateful to go into the
chicken pen at nightfall.

I guess I'll never really know. But what I do know is I am going to
have to get some pasture dogs; have not wanted to add to my animal load,
but I can think of no other way to protect my guys (not to mention my
property from human no gooders). I have a german shepard, but he stays
in the house at night and while I am not at home; plus he would be as
likely to harm my animals as any predator - I would never put him in the
pasture with them.

Any suggestions out there on good livestock protection dogs?

Warmly, Janice

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Odd Injury

Hey Janice,

You might be right, but I would still advise checking your male. Alpaca males usually have 3 pairs of fighting teeth on the top and bottom when they reach maturity. These usually come, one set at a time beginning with the front set. It isn't just one pair of canines on each side, it is 3 pairs, and they aren't just on the bottom, like the incisors, they are top and bottom.

If you haven't checked your intact male, you need to do so, regardless of what the cause of this injury was. Actually, I hope it wasn't a bobcat and if you suspect that it is do you need to worry about rabies prophylaxis?

Laurel

Tim & Laurel Shouvlin
Bluebird Hills Farm
3617 Derr Rd.
Springfield, Ohio 45503
bluebirdhills@voyager.net
www.bluebirdhills.com
937-206-3936

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alpacas

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Monday, August 04, 2008

Re: [AlpacaTalk] guardian dogs

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

[AlpacaTalk] guardian dogs

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] guardian dogs

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] guardian dogs

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

[AlpacaTalk] guardian dogs

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

[AlpacaTalk] Don't bother reading this unless you're serious about a rural business

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

[AlpacaTalk] RE: Odd Injury

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Odd Injury

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