Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Tuesday, October 09, 2007

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Fw: trimming feet etc, trimming teeth

Unforunately, for us anyway, tooth trimming does require at least 3
people, one to hold the head, mouth open and lips back, and another
person to hold the animal from getting away. Oh, and the person to man
the wire or dremel. We do use a chute sometimes, but it's in the barn
and rather a good walk from the boys' feed stalls. :)

Handles are available for the wire, we don't use them but just wrap the
wire around (my) fingers with gloved hands. The person manning the head
will hold a piece of PVC in the alpaca's mouth to keep it open or some
people use a rope dog chew toy to hold the tongue back, then I will
position the wire and begin sawing away. Person #3 will hold the animal
from escaping. Also person #2 will maybe spray some water from a squirt
bottle on the teeth to keep cool. That is not a requirement. It sounds
complicated and a lot of work, but it really is over in about 30
seconds.

For the dremel on fighting teeth, everything is pretty much the same
but I will use a dremel with a diamond bit. I can't find it on the
dremel site, but it's about a 3/8" bit with a rounded top and
impregnated with diamond. The rounded edge prevents cutting the boy's
tongue if the gets it near the tool while I'm trimming the tooth. And
what I do is just sand down the sharp edges with the tool, and take the
whole tooth down to just above gum level. If the tooth is longer than
1/4", I use the OB wire to saw it off. And it takes maybe 5 strokes
with a new-ish wire. Ours is close to 10 years old and requires about
twice as many strokes as it used to and I have to put on a lot more
pressure pulling to get the same cutting effectiveness. But since the
thing is so cheap, you can easily afford a new one every year! :)
Valleyvet has 11 yards for $11.49! Shoot, you can go in on it with 4
other people and have one for years to come!

Heidi, my daughter and I may be coming up in the near future after
AlpacaMania to look at some girls if the owner wasn't too horrified by
my recent faux pas on that other discussion group, maybe we can swing
by and give you a hand.

Heather

Heather Zeleny
West Wind Alpacas
Eugene, OR

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
Home of Avatar's West Wind Scirocco, El Bello's Padré, Pluro grandson
Sienna Illusion, and true black full Bolivian Cosby of Chelsea Farms!
http://www.westwindalpacas.com/
http://www.alpacanation.com/westwind.asp
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join

On Oct 9, 2007, at 8:31 PM, Radched@aol.com wrote:

>
> I was just going to ask about fighting teeth, knowing that the
> toothomatic won't work on them.
>
> OB wire has handles right?  How do you keep the mouth open, or do you
> even need to (with fighting teeth).  Lastly, for the dremel, what tool
> do you use, and is it the same for fighting teeth and for incisors.
>
> I have a boy who needs his fighting teeth trimmed, and a couple
> youngster who should soon.  I'm hoping I can hold them and my 11 year
> old can do the wire - not something I would try with a toothomatic :)
>
> Heidi
>
> Heidi Christensen
> WingNut Farm Alpacas
> Graham WA
> (253) 846-2168 or (253) 592-0200
> www.wingnut-alpacas.com

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Fw: trimming feet etc, trimming teeth


I was just going to ask about fighting teeth, knowing that the toothomatic won't work on them.

OB wire has handles right?  How do you keep the mouth open, or do you even need to (with fighting teeth).  Lastly, for the dremel, what tool do you use, and is it the same for fighting teeth and for incisors.

I have a boy who needs his fighting teeth trimmed, and a couple youngster who should soon.  I'm hoping I can hold them and my 11 year old can do the wire - not something I would try with a toothomatic :)

Heidi

Heidi Christensen
WingNut Farm Alpacas
Graham WA
(253) 846-2168 or (253) 592-0200
www.wingnut-alpacas.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 8:18 pm
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Fw: trimming feet etc, trimming teeth

I just have to put in my 2¢ here regarding the toothamatic. I think
they're dangerous and very scary. I have extremely good results with a
new OB wire to trim the incisors and sometimes long fighting teeth, and
we also use a dremel tool for fighting teeth. By the way, someone
recommended removing fighting teeth... I suppose you can do that and it
will preclude ever having to trim them again, but I've never heard of
that actually being done. All alpaca breeders who speak of fighting
teeth talk about trimming them as needed.

Back to the OB wire. It takes 30 seconds or so with the wire if it's
less than 10 years old, ;> and it's noise-free. I've heard of people
trimming way too close with the toothamatic and having serious bleeding
from either cutting gums or cutting the teeth too short. I don't know,
it's just not worth the risk. The wire is great, low-tech, quiet, and I
can see exactly what's going on and can stop before some horrible
accident happens. Also, the wire is about $10 and the toothamatic deal
is over $100. And a dremel runs about $40-60.

Heather

Heather Zeleny
West Wind Alpacas
Eugene, OR

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
Home of Avatar's West Wind Scirocco, El Bello's Padré, Pluro grandson
Sienna Illusion, and true black full Bolivian Cosby of Chelsea Farms!
http://www.westwindalpacas.com/
http://www.alpacanation.com/westwind.asp
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Fw: trimming feet etc, trimming teeth

I just have to put in my 2¢ here regarding the toothamatic. I think
they're dangerous and very scary. I have extremely good results with a
new OB wire to trim the incisors and sometimes long fighting teeth, and
we also use a dremel tool for fighting teeth. By the way, someone
recommended removing fighting teeth... I suppose you can do that and it
will preclude ever having to trim them again, but I've never heard of
that actually being done. All alpaca breeders who speak of fighting
teeth talk about trimming them as needed.

Back to the OB wire. It takes 30 seconds or so with the wire if it's
less than 10 years old, ;> and it's noise-free. I've heard of people
trimming way too close with the toothamatic and having serious bleeding
from either cutting gums or cutting the teeth too short. I don't know,
it's just not worth the risk. The wire is great, low-tech, quiet, and I
can see exactly what's going on and can stop before some horrible
accident happens. Also, the wire is about $10 and the toothamatic deal
is over $100. And a dremel runs about $40-60.

Heather

Heather Zeleny
West Wind Alpacas
Eugene, OR

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
Home of Avatar's West Wind Scirocco, El Bello's Padré, Pluro grandson
Sienna Illusion, and true black full Bolivian Cosby of Chelsea Farms!
http://www.westwindalpacas.com/
http://www.alpacanation.com/westwind.asp
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join

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[AlpacaTalk] Fiber Processing Service




Hello,

Getting ready to store your fiber for the winter? Don't know what to do
with all of those bags? Send it in for processing!

I offer fiber processing services-all done the old fashioned way, by hand.
I specialize in long fiber, although do work with and am experienced with
shorter fiber. Regardless if you want roving, combed top, or handspun yarn, I
can do this for you.

My washing/carding charge is based on OUTGOING weight, so you are not
charged for "grease" or dirt.

$1 an ounce for washing/carding your fiber into light, airy combed top,
roving, or batts-your choice. Fall Discounts are available for basic
washing/carding-5% off 10 -20 pounds, or 10% off 21 pounds or more!

Do you need fiber? Gorgeous Border Leicester raw lamb fleeces and Mohair
fleeces available for sale or blending.

I offer other services, which include:

Handspinning

Color dye

Blending and heathering

Rewashing/carding for fiber that needs special attention

Skirting

I have some immediate openings for basic washing and carding with a turn
around time of 5-8 weeks. I am am taking a few handspinning orders.

Barters are occasionally considered; drop me an email or give a call.

For additional information or questions, email me at BaileysFjords @ aol.com
(no spaces),or give me a call at 231-689-9902, or visit our website at:
http://www.thebaileystore.net

Lynda

Bailey's
White Cloud, MI
231-689-9902
BaileysFjords@aol.com
http://www.thebaileystore.net

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: BVD

There are some farms that have gotten together and offered to pay for their alpaca vets to go to seminars, or they will pool resources and purchase texts, such as Norm Evan's book or Murray Fowler's. Just a suggestion if you have a vet who is interested in learning more and taking on the challenge of working with camelids.

When alpaca breeders show their commitment this way, it is usally received very well and much appreciated, and helps keep them interested. We have only a few large animal vets in our area. One of them told an alpaca breeder friend of ours that he can either make $8000 per day taking care of small animals, or he can make $1500 per day caring for large animals, often putting himself at physical risk to do so.

We need to do whatever we can to keep these great folks available to us, and help them understand how much we appreciate their availability (when they are available, of course)

There are fewer and fewer large animal vets coming out of the schools, so it probably isn't going to get any better!

Laurel

Tim & Laurel Shouvlin
Bluebird Hills Farm
3617 Derr Rd.
Springfield, Ohio 45503
bluebirdhills@voyager.net
www.bluebirdhills.com
937-206-3936

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[AlpacaTalk] Re: trimming feet etc

We're no spring chickens but standing an alpaca with a halter and
leaning them against a wall or sturdy fence is sufficient for us to
trim toenails. We have a chute but it's too traumatic for some of them
to handle being "trapped" while we're doing it.

One of us on the lead and "leaning" on them while the other trims. Try
it and just talk gently, they and you will get used to it.

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[AlpacaTalk] Re: Horses and Alpacas?

Mark & Tracy, Not everyone that has alpacas has lovely green grass all
year long! We live in West Texas and Arizona before that with our
alpacas and have never had lush grass to let them graze. Right now our
five acres has green because we've had a tremendous amount of rain this
year. Usually though the "greens" are supplemental and the orchard
grass hay is their regular diet.

There are a lot of alpaca farms in both Washington and Ohio states
where it is nice and lush green, but it doesn't have to be that way in
order to raise alpacas.

As far as horses and alpacas together? The risk of an alpaca getting
kicked and injured by an alpaca would be the first consideration.
Don't put them in jeopardy if they don't have to be. Secondly, keeping
alpacas away from other livestock seems to help avoid any unwanted
sickness. This doesn't mean that they can't be near any other animals,
just safely separated so that they all remain healthy and happy.

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[AlpacaTalk] Re: shearing table

My first experience in shearing was at a farm that had a tilt table.
What an experience too! It necessitated as many people to help as it
does having an alpaca on the ground with pulleys. This particular
alpaca owner gave her alpacas a shot of Benamine to "calm" them. It
took an average of 45 minutes to shear. Cost at this farm $45 per
animal.

Then I experienced a professional shearer. About 9 farms got
together at three locations and set up the shearing weekend. We used
one person for the head, one for front feet and one for back feet to
get the alpaca gently on the ground. Once down there was a person
collecting the blanket, one at the head and one at the rear ropes.
Through the day we timed the shearing process it ranged from 7-10
minutes per animal.

In my opinion, it was much less stressful to shear on the ground with
a professional at approx $28 per animal. We had 36 animals this year
(2 farms) and started exactly at 8am and were totally done by 1:30pm
without rushing through it.

You also have to take into consideration the costs involved in doing
it yourself. Shears approx. $700, plus extra blades at what? $35
each and you will need newly sharpened (cost involved in re-
sharpening every year) blades for approx every 5 animals depending on
how dirty they are.

Oh, did I mention that the shearing table was approx $2,500?

Figure that all up and still see if you think that it's cheaper to do
it yourself!

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[AlpacaTalk] Re: BVD

Janice, I know it's no consolation and I'm sorry to hear about your
losses, but we have the same trouble here in the center of Texas. We
have tried three different vets and have had no luck with any of
them. One even said he did his doctorate on camelids but then told
me my two girls were not pregnant, we sent one off for breeding and 3
weeks later she gave birth!

There is no easy answer when it comes to alpacas. The thing we have
determined is that we need to personally (I'm talking me and my
partner) be more pro-active in the welfare and care of our alpacas.
One vet took 9 jabs before he could draw blood for a DNA test. One
said he could tell by "looking" at a female that she wasn't pregnant,
even though on my insistance he drew blood and it came back
positive. No apologies from these vets either, they just charge
their money and never get back in touch to see how things are!

I feel for you and your troubles. Do you have a farm close by that
you can make a deal for some breedings to one of their "proven"
(meaning healthy) males? It appears that your original investment
was just a package of bad luck. I am not blaming the farm you
purchased from either, most alpaca breeders do have ethics and will
stand behind their animals after a sale.

It's hard being an alpaca farmer with no knowledgeable vets in your
home area. We have resorted to going back to the original vet who is
the only one with an ultrasound machine and 20 minutes away. We are
going to meet with him and explain where we stand with the alpaca
business and what we want from him. After all, we are paying him for
his services, if he sold us something tangible we would be able to
return it, but when it's an "opinion" and doctoring, who's to say he
didn't provide service? I had a wonderful camelid vet in the
previous state we lived in so we were spoiled, she knew it all or
made sure she found out.

Maybe you'll be lucky with this new vet. If he's eager to learn then
word of mouth goes a long way, especially in the vet business. I
know that we heard about the vets not to go to first and foremost!

Good luck, and keep reading these alpaca groups, they are a wealth of
information. Even after 5 years in the business I still have a lot
to learn!

Vanessa

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] BVD Alpaca Fever

Janice,

You might have your vet who wants to learn contact Norm Evans and talk to him about Alpaca Fever. This is a strep infection that is either very similar or the same as "strangles" in horses. I had never heard of this until in conversation with him last spring. It is mentioned very briefly in Dr. Fowler's books.

In alpacas it can cause abortions, cria death, and death in adults. It can make an animal that looked great one day go down the next. Fortunately treatment is simple, penicillin. Interestingly, alpaca fever does not seem to respond as well to the antibiotics such as Naxcel and Nuflor which is often what is fired at alpacas or llamas when we can't figure out what is going on.

Have your vet talk to Dr. Evans, or call him yourself if that won't work, but drop a check in the mail for his time to help keep him available. He has recently moved, so I am afraid I don't have his current number.

I have been communicating with a farm here in Ohio that appears to have both BVD and Alpaca Fever going on simultaneously, and their losses have been just as tragic as yours, but on a larger scale. They too have had a hard time finding a knowledgeable vet to work with. This makes the tragedy even tougher to deal with.

Laurel

Tim & Laurel Shouvlin
Bluebird Hills Farm
3617 Derr Rd.
Springfield, Ohio 45503
bluebirdhills@voyager.net
www.bluebirdhills.com
937-206-3936

----- Original Message -----
From: houckj@aol.com
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] BVD

In a message dated 10/7/07 10:54:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
wyattblack@earthlink.net writes:

> My best wishes for you, and I am not a vet, so I will be praying you can
> find a good one near you.
> I am here if you want to talk, we lost a preemie cria this year and I know
> how hard it is.
> Slainte~
> Rachelle
>

Thank you Rachelle,
The cattle vet I have been using all these years never had a word to say
about all my losses. It seems crass to talk about money when one's heart aches so
much but the reality is these losses were alos a HUGE financial hit as well.
I purchased a trio 2 yrs ago, 2 females and a male, that I am still trying to
pay off and now one of the females is already dead and both new females have
lost babies. My original female has lost 2 babies (one was 8mos old when he
died and the other was the stillbirth) as well. The first baby born was the
one that has survived but had such a iffy and difficult start. So the problem
has been here from the original pair. The female (Allie) has always been
healthy (I got her very young); the male (Charlie Brown) was constantly having
various health problems and was the reason for every vet call. He has now died.
So I am suspecting him as the source.

I started calling around this summer after my relatively new female died so
suddenly leaving her baby behind nearly dead as well. None of the vets in the
area were interested. I found a new guy in a large animal clinic almost an
hour from here. I had heard the main vet there had some experience with
llamas.....but also had a severe personality "disorder" that makes her extremely hard
to work with. I left a message as to my needs and this young new guy
returned my call. When I told him what had happened and how many I had lost he got
busy doing research and called me back several days later with this BVD info
and suggestion that I test my herd. He was suggesting a skin biopsy.....or a
blood draw which he said was not as accurate and seemed to be confirmed by what
I have read so far.

He said BVD has not been thought to be a problem in camelids but there is
increasing evidence that it is. I had never heard of it but it sounded
plausible. That is when my computer whiz friend got on line and came up with tons of
info and copied and sent to me. I am still trying to read thru it all, but am
horrified at the implications.

My vet has never done a blood draw or even suggested one in all these years.
That was one of my frustrations with him......if I didn't ask for something
it didn't get done. I had to know enough to tell him what to do. When I would
ask him what he thought was going on he would just shrug his shoulders and a
say a bad run of luck.

Anyway, this summer when this info first came to me it was blistering hot and
everyone was hanging on by a thread. I expected to lose others to heat
stress and was not going to do a thing to increase their stress by having them
caught for an exam or blood draw. We were just trying to survive the summer.

Now that fall is here and it is trying to cool off (still 89 here the past
few weeks and into this week) it is time for me to get back to deciding what to
do. So I guess I will get him out here. He has no experience with camelids
but has shown he is willing to learn and interested enough to put some time
into research. I am sure being new and probably not very busy helped. But he
made calls as well and gathered info for me. He bemoaned the fact that the
cattle people in this area never want to have their cows tested for anything; so
we have no info on the prevalence in this area of BVD. He suggested a few
other possibilities that I don't remember now but when he called back he had been
able to rule them out from his phone conversations and research.

I guess I am afraid to have the testing done. What do I do if my remaining
ones (2 breeding females - both of whom have had small babies that have not
made it; 1 young unproven stud - the stud that fathered all the babies is the one
that laid down and died in January; and 1 gelding that is the only surviving
baby of my original female (still here) and the deceased male. He is the baby
that had so much trouble when born but pulled thru) test positive? I know I
have to know, but what does one do if they test positive?

Thanks, Janice

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