Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Tuesday, June 24, 2008

[AlpacaTalk] Re: Wild Cherry

Thanks Laurel and Allie for the info. I have not been very impressed
with our County Agent in years past and haven't turned to them with
quesitons in many years. But I will try giving the Forestry Service a call.

These trees are definitely wild cherry; they are covered with tiny
cherries, first red then turn black. I know the distinctive bark on
sight. The llama book I have has a toxic plant section and it says "Pin
cherry, wild red cherry, Western choke cherry covering most of the U.S.
Cyanide poisoning. Wilted leaves and bark very poisonous" It doesnt'
say anything about Black Cherry.
I read somewhere that a coffee cup size amt of the wilted leaves would
kill a large animal :-(. I don't know how many wilted leaves they have
managed to get a hold of; but I know they eat the dead ones off the
ground in fall/winter, along with the sweet gum which they also love.

I would be thrilled to learn these particular cherries are not toxic.
But the tree guys that have been out so far were readily able to
identify the cherries (I have them marked, but asked each one before we
walked thru the woods because I wanted to know they could identify any
that I may have missed) and were familiar with the problem of toxicity.
The one I liked that seemed the most knowledgeable said he had dealt
with this in Texas for many years on cattle ranches.

It is not as simple as clearing land. These are in the midst of a mixed
stand of trees and I don't want them all cut down....the pacas would
lose their much needed shade. And there are fences and
structures/loafing sheds, etc that have to be worked around. Hence the
expense. By the way, I am in GA - very hot, they must have the shade.

I am keeping the wood myself and that was supposed to cut down on the
expense as they wouldn't have to haul it off. Noone so far has said
anything about selling it for lumber (I assume that is what you mean by
valuable), or even indicated any interest in it at all. Wild cherry is
a weed around here; they are all over my property. I heat with wood and
wanted it to burn. The guy from Texas was quite knowledgeable about the
cherry wood and said it was the most valuable firewood; very dense and
hard, and had the unusual quality of burning in all colors of the
rainbow. He said he delivers firewood to the Governor's Mansion and
cherry wood is all they will take. But he didn't offer to buy it from
me; he told me that I had about 2 1/2 cords here worth about $600. Said
nothing about its value as lumber.

But I will check with the Forester to see what they have to say. Thanks
for the lead. I have never called them for anything except a burn
permit. It would be great if I could get them cut out in exchange for
the wood. I am happy burning oak or anything I can get my hands on.

But what about the problem of the sawdust left behind and the
resprouting? Any suggestions?

BTW, to the person asking about the Lily of the Valley....that is not
listed in my Llama book in the toxic plant section; tho I know I have
seen it elsewhere as a poisonous plant, like poinsettia.

Warmly, Jance

<<First thing to do is to contact the County or Regional forester and
>have them positively identify them as Black Cherry. The wilted
> leaves have cyanide in them. Wild Cherry could be any plant
> including a non toxic cherry that has gone wild. They are usually
> associated with the State's Extension office. Here is where your
> location would have been helpful in your signature!
>
> Now the other advantage to the Forester is that he can tell you the
> value of the trees if you decide to remove them. This is a very
> valuable hard wood and it might be that you could have them removed
> for minimally free or even make some money. The forester could tell
> you how to proceed and provide names of reputable companies that
> harvest for use.
>
> If you do have to remove them, please be very careful about who you
> use. There are some great companies out there that are very
> trustworthy and then there are many who will try to take advantage
> of you. If it is Black Cherry and good log size, it should not be
> cut into fire wood. That would be a terrible shame.>>

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Wild Cherry

Hi Janice, Other thought I had is that you possibly have some
deficiencies in the diets??? I know that low selenium will cause prematurity and
other birthing and pregnancy issues. Have you had fecals properly floated and
spun? You would need to check with your vet. Not all vets do a proper
fecal check if they're not experienced with camelids. If not done properly,
the vet will miss a potentially dangerous situation.

You could be having a combination of parasite and nutritional issues??

I know of a farm that had several wild cherries in their pastures and a herd
of 30+ animals with no poisoning issues. Their only real precaution with
the leaves was to pick up any fallen brances, etc. following storms.
They felt that the danger wasn't in fall leaves dropping, just green leaves
fallen and wilting on the ground.

I don't know this for fact, not a vet or ag specialist....just passing on
what worked for our friends' farm. Perhaps you should check into this with
your ag agent.

Personally, I'd look into harvesting the trees for lumber. I know we
harvested some when we built our house and got some very nice cherry and oak
lumber for my husband to use for furniture building.

Laurel's right about not letting nice timber get cut up into fire wood!

Carolyn Marquette,

PartyLite Gifts _PartyLite.com_ (http://www.partylite.us/)

The AlpacaRosa _www.TheAlpacaRosa.com_ (http://www.thealpacarosa.com/)
2251 Sesame St
Mogadore, OH 44260
330-699-2182
330-618-9769 cell

**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[AlpacaTalk] Re: Wild Cherry

Hello Janice...first we are sorry about the loss you experienced. It
hits the heart hard and we feel what you have gone through. We did
have one other thought; aside from the obvious regarding the cherry
trees have you had the soil tested for other possible toxins? We know
of one farm that bought from a cabbage grower who experienced many of
the symptoms you describe only to find that a chemical applied over
the years by the cabbage grower was not only toxic and lethal to
Alpacas but was very residual and resistant to breaking down. This
may be an avenue you might also wish to pursue, again through the
County Ag Agent in your area. Calling the county will generally get
you to the right persons. Good luck, Michael
Michael and Margery A. Morack
Greenbriar Farm
262.970.9633
MAM2@wi.rr.com
Waukesha, WI

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, houckj@... wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I know Wild Cherry is toxic. Does anyone know the details? I know it
> is the wilted leaves and the bark from what I have read. I have done
> an inventory of my wooded pastures and discovered to my dismay they are
> full of huge, tall mature wild cherries that are currently thick with
> the cherries, which of course are dropping in the pastures. I have
> never noticed this before, but then I have noticed a lot of wild fruit
> trees bearing this year that have never borne fruit before. I believe
> there is a panicked survival mode happening around here due to our
> extended drought. Are the cherries toxic as well? Surely not.
>
> I have had an estimate done on removing these trees......$4-$5K. I
> don't have that kind of money and would have to get rid of the
alpacas I
> have, before I could spend that kind of money. And I have no other
> place, without cherry trees, to move them. I only have 4 left having
> buried 2 breeding adults last year and numerous premature babies over
> the past several years :-(. I guess I now know why all the premature
> births - wild cherry? And I can only guess they are also the cause of
> my two adult deaths. The stud male I had an autopsy done on and was
> merely told he had some sort of intestional obstruction. He was
fine in
> the morning, dead by night, after much obvious distress for which the
> vet could apparently do nothing. The female, I did not even know was
> pregnant, was just dead in the pasture one morning with a nearly dead
> baby a ways off from her. I managed to keep that baby alive only about
> 4-5 days. He seemed fairly strong and would drink from the bottle, but
> he had some sort of deformity on one of his front feet that made it
hard
> for him to get around. He went downhill one night and was dead by
the next.
>
> The male died in the winter when I suppose it is possible he was eating
> the dead leaves off the ground. I have seen many of them eating the
> dead leaves......but mostly sweet gum. The female died in the summer's
> most brutal heat wave. She was fine the day before, but didn't eat
> dinner, and was dead by morning. The trees are so tall they cannot
> reach their leaves, so I do not believe she was eating anything from
> these trees.
>
> These wild cherries are absolutely everywhere around here. If they are
> so toxic how do wild life manage to survive? A walk thru revealed that
> the horse pasture is full of them.....still in the bushy stage which I
> am cutting out myself. The horses are not touching them.
>
> What brought my attention to this whole situation was one of the
alpacas
> had pulled down a sapling and they had stripped it of its leaves, so I
> didn't recognize what it was. I had it cut out one day as it was
> hanging in my way, and saw the alpacas crowd around acting like kids in
> an ice cream store. They were gnawing on the little branches left
> behind and literally sucking up the sawdust off the ground from
where it
> had been cut like it was candy and I panicked. I got them away and
> quickly cleaned up what was left.
>
> Hence my dilemma.....besides the incredible expense - how do I get them
> (the trees) out of there without creating more hazard from the sawdust
> and also wild cherry is a weed that will sprout forevermore from the
> stump left behind. One of the tree services that came out to give
me an
> estimate said to pour concrete all over all the stumps, when I told him
> I wouldn't want to use an herbicide around the alpacas. How awful that
> would be.
>
> Do you think this is really what has been causing all my premature
> births and deaths?
>
> Thanks! Janice
>

__._,_.___
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[AlpacaTalk] Re: Wild Cherry

Hi,

I would have someone from your local cooperative extension come out
to identify the trees and whether there is anything else toxic in
the pasture. I believe it is only one type of cherry that is poison,
the wilted leaves have high concentrations of cyanide. The fruit
itself isn't toxic, but the pit may be.

I have one cherry on my land, and, since I can't cut it down and I'm
not sure what type it is (the deer sure love it and it hasn't killed
them...) I am fencing around it as wide as its canopy and I cut all
the low branches. I figure this way the fruit will fall in the
fenced area, as will most of the leaves. I will also not use that
pasture in the autum when leaves are falling, but can open it up
again once I rake any stray leaves.

Good luck!

Morgen Bowers
Dreamwood Farm
Claverack, NY

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, houckj@... wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I know Wild Cherry is toxic. Does anyone know the details? I
know it
> is the wilted leaves and the bark from what I have read. I have
done
> an inventory of my wooded pastures and discovered to my dismay
they are
> full of huge, tall mature wild cherries that are currently thick
with
> the cherries, which of course are dropping in the pastures. I
have
> never noticed this before, but then I have noticed a lot of wild
fruit
> trees bearing this year that have never borne fruit before. I
believe
> there is a panicked survival mode happening around here due to our
> extended drought. Are the cherries toxic as well? Surely not.
>
> I have had an estimate done on removing these trees......$4-$5K.
I
> don't have that kind of money and would have to get rid of the
alpacas I
> have, before I could spend that kind of money. And I have no
other
> place, without cherry trees, to move them. I only have 4 left
having
> buried 2 breeding adults last year and numerous premature babies
over
> the past several years :-(. I guess I now know why all the
premature
> births - wild cherry? And I can only guess they are also the
cause of
> my two adult deaths. The stud male I had an autopsy done on and
was
> merely told he had some sort of intestional obstruction. He was
fine in
> the morning, dead by night, after much obvious distress for which
the
> vet could apparently do nothing. The female, I did not even know
was
> pregnant, was just dead in the pasture one morning with a nearly
dead
> baby a ways off from her. I managed to keep that baby alive only
about
> 4-5 days. He seemed fairly strong and would drink from the
bottle, but
> he had some sort of deformity on one of his front feet that made
it hard
> for him to get around. He went downhill one night and was dead by
the next.
>
> The male died in the winter when I suppose it is possible he was
eating
> the dead leaves off the ground. I have seen many of them eating
the
> dead leaves......but mostly sweet gum. The female died in the
summer's
> most brutal heat wave. She was fine the day before, but didn't
eat
> dinner, and was dead by morning. The trees are so tall they
cannot
> reach their leaves, so I do not believe she was eating anything
from
> these trees.
>
> These wild cherries are absolutely everywhere around here. If
they are
> so toxic how do wild life manage to survive? A walk thru revealed
that
> the horse pasture is full of them.....still in the bushy stage
which I
> am cutting out myself. The horses are not touching them.
>
> What brought my attention to this whole situation was one of the
alpacas
> had pulled down a sapling and they had stripped it of its leaves,
so I
> didn't recognize what it was. I had it cut out one day as it was
> hanging in my way, and saw the alpacas crowd around acting like
kids in
> an ice cream store. They were gnawing on the little branches left
> behind and literally sucking up the sawdust off the ground from
where it
> had been cut like it was candy and I panicked. I got them away
and
> quickly cleaned up what was left.
>
> Hence my dilemma.....besides the incredible expense - how do I get
them
> (the trees) out of there without creating more hazard from the
sawdust
> and also wild cherry is a weed that will sprout forevermore from
the
> stump left behind. One of the tree services that came out to give
me an
> estimate said to pour concrete all over all the stumps, when I
told him
> I wouldn't want to use an herbicide around the alpacas. How awful
that
> would be.
>
> Do you think this is really what has been causing all my premature
> births and deaths?
>
> Thanks! Janice
>

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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