Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Tuesday, January 27, 2009

Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: Teeth trimming

She really should not have removed the broken teeth, they need those
teeth, and they grow back! We had a girl who thrashed around so much
during a vet visit that she whacked her head into the wall of the
barn and broke off a tooth at the gumline, actually a bit below it.
It grew back. eventually, and no worse for the wear.

Ya, I'd never go back to that vet. I hope it was baby teeth she
removed at least!

Heather

On Jan 27, 2009, at 6:40 PM, LunarStruck@aol.com wrote:

> Thanks, Heather. No, it wasn't already broken, the vet just didn't
> know
> what she was doing. She is the one who ended up surgically removing
> the broken
> tooth and the other one and costing us a trip to the color
> championship class
> at the next show as a result. AND I noticed that she charged us for
> both
> filing and removing the teeth! We will never go back to her.
>
> I'll have to suck it up and try it soon, we have no ranch vet and
> can't take
> all our alpacas to the vet just to trim teeth, they won't all fit
> in the
> trailer! : )
>
> SUSAN OLSON
> Alpaca Loco
> Riverside, CA
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/27/2009 6:15:33 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com writes:
>
> I wonder if the tooth was already cracked? I don't know how many boys
> you have but they can fight hard! We've had lots of boys break teeth
> during fights, all on their own without any help from us. My lovely
> Scirocco had perfect teeth, just gorgeous, and then he broke them all
> off fighting! At least I got pics before he broke them all!
>
> I think also, pulling TOO hard on the wire can break off the tooth
> before cutting is complete. When this happens, the dremel is useful
> to smooth off the rough edge.
>
> Trying to describe the perfect amount of tension/pressure is
> difficult, but you want to pull hard enough that you get a lot of
> cutting with each stroke, so that it takes as few strokes as
> possible. Also, a dull wire requires more tension than a new one, it
> doesn't cut as well, and I think proves a greater risk for poorly cut
> teeth and breaks.
>
> Heather
>
> On Jan 27, 2009, at 5:59 PM, _LunarStruck@LunarSt_
> (mailto:LunarStruck@aol.com) wrote:
>
> > Heather, I have a question that might benefit everyone too. Our old
> > vet
> > broke one of our herdsire's incisors trimming it with an OB wire
> > and now I'm
> > afraid to try it. How do you avoid this outcome and has it ever
> > happened to
> > you? Any advice on how much pressure to use? Thanks.
> >
> > SUSAN OLSON
> > Alpaca Loco
> > Riverside, CA
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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posted by Chaddo at 7:02 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: Teeth trimming

Thanks, Heather. No, it wasn't already broken, the vet just didn't know
what she was doing. She is the one who ended up surgically removing the broken
tooth and the other one and costing us a trip to the color championship class
at the next show as a result. AND I noticed that she charged us for both
filing and removing the teeth! We will never go back to her.

I'll have to suck it up and try it soon, we have no ranch vet and can't take
all our alpacas to the vet just to trim teeth, they won't all fit in the
trailer! : )

SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA



In a message dated 1/27/2009 6:15:33 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com writes:

I wonder if the tooth was already cracked? I don't know how many boys
you have but they can fight hard! We've had lots of boys break teeth
during fights, all on their own without any help from us. My lovely
Scirocco had perfect teeth, just gorgeous, and then he broke them all
off fighting! At least I got pics before he broke them all!

I think also, pulling TOO hard on the wire can break off the tooth
before cutting is complete. When this happens, the dremel is useful
to smooth off the rough edge.

Trying to describe the perfect amount of tension/pressure is
difficult, but you want to pull hard enough that you get a lot of
cutting with each stroke, so that it takes as few strokes as
possible. Also, a dull wire requires more tension than a new one, it
doesn't cut as well, and I think proves a greater risk for poorly cut
teeth and breaks.

Heather

On Jan 27, 2009, at 5:59 PM, _LunarStruck@LunarSt_
(mailto:LunarStruck@aol.com) wrote:

> Heather, I have a question that might benefit everyone too. Our old
> vet
> broke one of our herdsire's incisors trimming it with an OB wire
> and now I'm
> afraid to try it. How do you avoid this outcome and has it ever
> happened to
> you? Any advice on how much pressure to use? Thanks.
>
> SUSAN OLSON
> Alpaca Loco
> Riverside, CA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
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posted by Chaddo at 6:40 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: Teeth trimming

I wonder if the tooth was already cracked? I don't know how many boys
you have but they can fight hard! We've had lots of boys break teeth
during fights, all on their own without any help from us. My lovely
Scirocco had perfect teeth, just gorgeous, and then he broke them all
off fighting! At least I got pics before he broke them all!

I think also, pulling TOO hard on the wire can break off the tooth
before cutting is complete. When this happens, the dremel is useful
to smooth off the rough edge.

Trying to describe the perfect amount of tension/pressure is
difficult, but you want to pull hard enough that you get a lot of
cutting with each stroke, so that it takes as few strokes as
possible. Also, a dull wire requires more tension than a new one, it
doesn't cut as well, and I think proves a greater risk for poorly cut
teeth and breaks.

Heather

On Jan 27, 2009, at 5:59 PM, LunarStruck@aol.com wrote:

> Heather, I have a question that might benefit everyone too. Our old
> vet
> broke one of our herdsire's incisors trimming it with an OB wire
> and now I'm
> afraid to try it. How do you avoid this outcome and has it ever
> happened to
> you? Any advice on how much pressure to use? Thanks.
>
> SUSAN OLSON
> Alpaca Loco
> Riverside, CA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
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posted by Chaddo at 6:15 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Bone Tumor: Update

Hang in there, Jim, it might not be as bad as you think. Keep up the
positive thoughts and don't feel sorry for Brandie around her. Animals don't worry
about injuries or illness the way we do. I'm having real trouble putting my
first hand-fed baby up for sale, I sympathize with you!

SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA


In a message dated 1/27/2009 12:33:27 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
jgyelwa@ywave.com writes:

Thanks Susan and Heather.

I wish I knew more. When the digital pics are taken, they should tell more.

Still hurts me, having had Brandie live in the house while I bottle fed her,
now this...

I will keep ya all posted.

Jim Guerin
Jimmini Farm
Yelm, WA

----- Original Message -----
From: _LunarStruck@LunarSt_ (mailto:LunarStruck@aol.com)
To: _AlpacaTalk@yahoogroAlpacaT_ (mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com)
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Bone Tumor: Update

Hi Jim - so sorry to hear this. My personal decisions on treatment were
always based upon the outcome and the treatment involved. Ask your vet what
her
opinion is of the outcome and what her recommendations for treatment would
be for each possible outcome before you make the decision to go any further.
It could just be a bone cyst and be benign also, I had one of those in my
femur that was surgically removed and I'm fine 25 years later. Anyone know
if
alpacas get epiphisitis? Good luck and keep us posted!

SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA

In a message dated 1/26/2009 7:28:15 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
_jgyelwa@ywave.jgy_ (mailto:jgyelwa@ywave.com) writes:

Hi again all,

Just talked again with the vet. The suspected tumor is in the humerus bone.
I asked her if the xrays could be sent to someone else for a second opinion,
like WSU, and she said she would be happy to do that. Also, she asked if I
could bring Brandie in to have digital pics taken, which I will do next
week.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Jim Guerin
Jimmini Farm
Yelm, WA

----- Original Message -----
From: J Guerin
To: _AlpacaTalk@To: _AlpacaTalk@<WBR>_AlpacaTalk@yahoogroAlpacaT_
(mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com) )
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 5:34 PM
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Bone Tumor

Hi all,

For several months later last year, I noticed my Lil bottle baby girl,
Brandie, was favoring her front right leg. When Brandie would turn say to
the
left, she would sort of drag her right leg around, not putting much weight
on it.
Some times she would stumble when she was walking. I had a suspicion
something might be wrong shortly after she was born, but this didnt show its
self
fully untill she was about nine months old, Started out with off and on
limping.

I had the vet out the end of Dec 08. After paplating from her foot up, when
Amy got to her shoulder ( I believe it is actually in her elbow, but not
sure
) Amy was way up past what I would call the elbow, but from the skeleton pic
in the Big Book, not sure if an xray could be taken there, Brandie let me
know that that HURT. She turned her head and looked me right in the eye.

Today, I finally got a call back from the vet, Amy. She had been waiting on
OSU to read the xrays. From what they can figure out, compairing to other
species, it looks like Brandie has a bone tumor. She was one year old on 20
Nov
08.

OSU suggested a bone biopsy. Amy suggested waiting and taking another set of
xrays in a month.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Jim Guerin
Jimmini Farm
Yelm, WA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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posted by Chaddo at 6:08 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: Teeth trimming

Heather, I have a question that might benefit everyone too. Our old vet
broke one of our herdsire's incisors trimming it with an OB wire and now I'm
afraid to try it. How do you avoid this outcome and has it ever happened to
you? Any advice on how much pressure to use? Thanks.

SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA


In a message dated 1/27/2009 10:56:35 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com writes:

Yes, the incisors are the ones in the front. With a new wire, there
is no smoke, just a bit of dust. And it goes so fast the teeth are
trimmed before you know it!

We just trimmed a yearling's teeth the other day and it literally
took only about 5 strokes with the wire. And since the wire is so
cheap at Valley Vet, you can always have a fresh one when the last
one starts losing its cutting power. Adult teeth are much more
substantial than baby teeth, but they still cut quickly and easily
with a new-ish piece of wire.

Oooo, price has gone up, $12.75 for 11 yards. And free shipping!
_http://www.valleyvehttp://wwhttp://www.vhttp://www.vallehttp://www_
(http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07aab-7b6a-11d5-)
a192-00b0d0204ae5
I cut off about 2 feet of wire for tooth trimming, That's 16 lengths
for teeth! Most people will never have to buy more than one of these,
as long as it doesn't get lost between uses! You can also buy
handles, but the handle they sell at valleyvet doesn't look like what
we need for tooth trimming. It's also just as easy to wrap the ends
of the wire around a 6" length of 1/2" or so dowel if you don't want
to wrap them around your fingers, or even a stick from an oak tree!

I did wear out a piece doing the boys' incisors and fighting teeth
last summer, but we have 15 adult males. Not everyone needed trims,
but I'd say we did at least 5 sets of fighting teeth and incisors
from all the boys. The piece we have down at the girls area doesn't
get used as much for some reason.

I'm not really sure how much pain or discomfort is caused by trimming
teeth. Of course an old dull wire will generate heat which will
probably be alarming to the alpaca. With new length of new wire, the
fighting teeth also take 5 good strong strokes or less.

With incisors, just be careful not to take more than 1/3 of the tooth
off at a time to give the pulp opportunity to recede. Otherwise there
will be bleeding, and I don't know if there are nerves in the pulp or
not, but I'd rather trim the teeth again in a month or two than risk
it. That reminds me, we do have some boys who need those touch-ups.

And, here's a personal observation on trimming teeth. I think they
like having teeth at the right length. The little maiden whose teeth
we trimmed the other day wouldn't let us look at her teeth before we
trimmed them. Afterward, she stood calmly for me to take pics of her
bite, while my mom opened her lips. This girl's sire had his teeth
trimmed a couple of years ago, and I'd see him feeling the edge of
his "new" teeth with his tongue for months afterward. He'd always had
trouble keeping them worn down uniformly so one side was longer than
the other.

I like trimming teeth. :)

Heather

On Jan 27, 2009, at 7:30 AM, _houckj@aol.com_ (mailto:houckj@aol.com) wrote:

> <<<<We trim incisors and fighting teeth with an OB wire, available
> from
> Valley Vet >>>>
>
> OK, really dumb question that I should know the answer to.....are the
> incisors the bottom 2 teeth (that on mine are incredibly long)?
> Those are the teeth I am concerned with needing to trim back. I have
> seen the fighting teeth trimming with OB wire.....created a LOT of
> smoke
> and pain/discomfort in the one that it was done to.
>
> Thanks Heather.
> Janice

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
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posted by Chaddo at 5:59 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: Bone Tumor

Thanks Janice. I am hoping that the digital x rays will show what is wrong. I am also wondering if when the humorus bone was palpated, indeed it is where the problem is, maybe the pain was transmitted to the actual area.

Jim Guerin
Jimmini Farm
Yelm, WA


----- Original Message -----
From: houckj@aol.com
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:48 PM
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] RE: Bone Tumor


I am so sorry to hear this Jim; what a blow.
I hope they will be able to first figure out exactly what the problem is
and second hope they will be able to treat.

Warmly, Janice




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
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posted by Chaddo at 5:10 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

[AlpacaTalk] RE: Bone Tumor

I am so sorry to hear this Jim; what a blow.
I hope they will be able to first figure out exactly what the problem is
and second hope they will be able to treat.

Warmly, Janice

__._,_.___
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posted by Chaddo at 4:48 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: Teeth trimming

Yes, the incisors are the ones in the front. With a new wire, there
is no smoke, just a bit of dust. And it goes so fast the teeth are
trimmed before you know it!

We just trimmed a yearling's teeth the other day and it literally
took only about 5 strokes with the wire. And since the wire is so
cheap at Valley Vet, you can always have a fresh one when the last
one starts losing its cutting power. Adult teeth are much more
substantial than baby teeth, but they still cut quickly and easily
with a new-ish piece of wire.

Oooo, price has gone up, $12.75 for 11 yards. And free shipping!
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07aab-7b6a-11d5-
a192-00b0d0204ae5
I cut off about 2 feet of wire for tooth trimming, That's 16 lengths
for teeth! Most people will never have to buy more than one of these,
as long as it doesn't get lost between uses! You can also buy
handles, but the handle they sell at valleyvet doesn't look like what
we need for tooth trimming. It's also just as easy to wrap the ends
of the wire around a 6" length of 1/2" or so dowel if you don't want
to wrap them around your fingers, or even a stick from an oak tree!

I did wear out a piece doing the boys' incisors and fighting teeth
last summer, but we have 15 adult males. Not everyone needed trims,
but I'd say we did at least 5 sets of fighting teeth and incisors
from all the boys. The piece we have down at the girls area doesn't
get used as much for some reason.

I'm not really sure how much pain or discomfort is caused by trimming
teeth. Of course an old dull wire will generate heat which will
probably be alarming to the alpaca. With new length of new wire, the
fighting teeth also take 5 good strong strokes or less.

With incisors, just be careful not to take more than 1/3 of the tooth
off at a time to give the pulp opportunity to recede. Otherwise there
will be bleeding, and I don't know if there are nerves in the pulp or
not, but I'd rather trim the teeth again in a month or two than risk
it. That reminds me, we do have some boys who need those touch-ups.

And, here's a personal observation on trimming teeth. I think they
like having teeth at the right length. The little maiden whose teeth
we trimmed the other day wouldn't let us look at her teeth before we
trimmed them. Afterward, she stood calmly for me to take pics of her
bite, while my mom opened her lips. This girl's sire had his teeth
trimmed a couple of years ago, and I'd see him feeling the edge of
his "new" teeth with his tongue for months afterward. He'd always had
trouble keeping them worn down uniformly so one side was longer than
the other.

I like trimming teeth. :)

Heather

On Jan 27, 2009, at 7:30 AM, houckj@aol.com wrote:

> <<<<We trim incisors and fighting teeth with an OB wire, available
> from
> Valley Vet >>>>
>
> OK, really dumb question that I should know the answer to.....are the
> incisors the bottom 2 teeth (that on mine are incredibly long)?
> Those are the teeth I am concerned with needing to trim back. I have
> seen the fighting teeth trimming with OB wire.....created a LOT of
> smoke
> and pain/discomfort in the one that it was done to.
>
> Thanks Heather.
> Janice

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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posted by Chaddo at 10:36 AM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

[AlpacaTalk] RE: Teeth trimming

<<<<We trim incisors and fighting teeth with an OB wire, available from
Valley Vet >>>>

OK, really dumb question that I should know the answer to.....are the
incisors the bottom 2 teeth (that on mine are incredibly long)?
Those are the teeth I am concerned with needing to trim back. I have
seen the fighting teeth trimming with OB wire.....created a LOT of smoke
and pain/discomfort in the one that it was done to.

Thanks Heather.
Janice

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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posted by Chaddo at 7:30 AM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Bone Tumor: Update

Thanks Susan and Heather.

I wish I knew more. When the digital pics are taken, they should tell more.

Still hurts me, having had Brandie live in the house while I bottle fed her, now this...

I will keep ya all posted.

Jim Guerin
Jimmini Farm
Yelm, WA

----- Original Message -----
From: LunarStruck@aol.com
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Bone Tumor: Update


Hi Jim - so sorry to hear this. My personal decisions on treatment were
always based upon the outcome and the treatment involved. Ask your vet what her
opinion is of the outcome and what her recommendations for treatment would
be for each possible outcome before you make the decision to go any further.
It could just be a bone cyst and be benign also, I had one of those in my
femur that was surgically removed and I'm fine 25 years later. Anyone know if
alpacas get epiphisitis? Good luck and keep us posted!

SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA

In a message dated 1/26/2009 7:28:15 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
jgyelwa@ywave.com writes:

Hi again all,

Just talked again with the vet. The suspected tumor is in the humerus bone.
I asked her if the xrays could be sent to someone else for a second opinion,
like WSU, and she said she would be happy to do that. Also, she asked if I
could bring Brandie in to have digital pics taken, which I will do next week.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Jim Guerin
Jimmini Farm
Yelm, WA

----- Original Message -----
From: J Guerin
To: _AlpacaTalk@yahoogroAlpacaT_ (mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com)
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 5:34 PM
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Bone Tumor

Hi all,

For several months later last year, I noticed my Lil bottle baby girl,
Brandie, was favoring her front right leg. When Brandie would turn say to the
left, she would sort of drag her right leg around, not putting much weight on it.
Some times she would stumble when she was walking. I had a suspicion
something might be wrong shortly after she was born, but this didnt show its self
fully untill she was about nine months old, Started out with off and on
limping.

I had the vet out the end of Dec 08. After paplating from her foot up, when
Amy got to her shoulder ( I believe it is actually in her elbow, but not sure
) Amy was way up past what I would call the elbow, but from the skeleton pic
in the Big Book, not sure if an xray could be taken there, Brandie let me
know that that HURT. She turned her head and looked me right in the eye.

Today, I finally got a call back from the vet, Amy. She had been waiting on
OSU to read the xrays. From what they can figure out, compairing to other
species, it looks like Brandie has a bone tumor. She was one year old on 20 Nov
08.

OSU suggested a bone biopsy. Amy suggested waiting and taking another set of
xrays in a month.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Jim Guerin
Jimmini Farm
Yelm, WA

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posted by Chaddo at 12:33 AM 0 comments