Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Tuesday, December 06, 2005

[Alpacasite] Re: You should resign as a Director of the Alpaca Fiber Cooperative

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Miller" <chris@n...> wrote:
>
> OK, I have been lurking for quite some time now. I am interested
in the
> business, mainly because I have the available land, I love the
animals, and
> I love the idea of having the possibility of another income source.
I have
> been to seminars, had farm visits, picked animals, I think I want to
> specialize in Suri's. Every person I have talked to in the business
talks
> about the importance of the fiber market, and that is the goal for
the
> industry. Who would know better about the truth of this statement
than the
> Director of the Fiber Cooperative?

Slight correction here, I am one of seven people sitting on the Board
of Directors of the co-op. All of us are dedicated to the future of
the alpaca industry. All of us share the opinion that the high end
will require a sustainable market for the produce of these wonderful
creatures. All of us believe in the power of collective action in
insuring the long term success of the industry.

We also disagree on many of the details :-)

None of us will use this forum for official correspondence with co-op
members, so you should take what I say as my opinion only. I do not
wish to speak in my capacity as Director in this forum, although I do
feel that my position may provide some insight not always shared by
others.

> Do people in the industry disagree with
> the numbers given by Mr Merrill, or is it the grim truth? I
understand
> everyone on this list has something to lose if this is in fact the
truth,
> and that would cause for some defensiveness to his statements, but
for an
> industry that prides itself on integrity shouldn't this be addressed
> truthfully with people like me, potential buyers?
>
>
>
> Not one person in the industry has given this opinion to me about
the future
> of the fiber market. Am I to assume that alpacas are a fad
livestock and
> change my business plan to get in, make as many sales as possible to
recoup
> my investment, and try to do this all the while without using the
future of
> the fiber market as a selling point, instead of slow growth, high
quality
> breeding, and focused marketing?

The US alpaca industry will evolve. It has to. The herd is growing
at an exponential rate. You can see this simply by using ARI
statistics. Use the last numbers for US herd size and muliply by 1.18
for as many years into the future as you wish to look.

I encourage everyone to look at the National herd growth, since most
of us start out with the idea of looking at only our own herd growth.
Much better to start with the big picture and then see how we fit in.

If you look at the numbers, you may, like me, conclude that there will
need to be a paradigm shift at some point. That shift can be easy or
hard, but it will come. At some level everyone realizes this. Is
there a single breeder that has not asked how long the current market
will last?

The longer we wait - the more passively we wait, the more painful this
shift will be. And, if we wait to long and remain too passive it
decreases the chance of a successful shift.

I remember sitting in a room in Portland, Oregon in 2001 listening to
Rachel Hendrickson talk about the value added chain with alpaca fiber.
Quite a inspiring presentation that she made that day. One thing she
said that stuck in my mind was that we should build our business plan
around the idea of a $500 animal. If we could make that work, then we
were on the right path.

Does that mean all alpacas should sell for $500? Of course not. But
I can tell you that right now there are alpacas selling for far less
than $500, right here in the US. I sold one of them earlier this
year. He was a hayburner boy, healthy but of only average fiber
quality and three years old. I was offered $375 and I took it.

Some would call me a bottom feeder. I would call myself $375 better
off than I was before the sale.

And I did not begrudge the sale, because our business plan is based on
the idea of a $500 animal.

I sold a promising yearling male for $1500 a month later. I could have
held out for more I suppose, but that $1500 was positive cash flow,
which any business can use from time to time.

And, I sold females for substantially more (though not a quarter
million!).

As the industry changes over the next decade it will also op-en up to
many more people.

There will remain a very high priced top end, populated by show
animals.

There will be a middle area of people producing sound breeding stock
for production farms. These animals will sell for reasonably high
prices, though not top dollar. They will be valued for production
traits - ease of care, reproductive soundness, commercial fiber
qualities (like consistancy), etc.

There will be production herds. These owners will have need of good
breeding stock to replenish their herds, but they will play the
numbers game and make their money in the same ways that sheep and goat
producer do.

There will be small flock owners, just as in sheep. These folks might
use the fiber for hand spinning, or they might just like seeing some
magical creatures grazing on their small acreage.

The industry will grow and change and become more inclusive, and in
the end will be stronger and better.

These things will come to pass. The only question is whether we, as a
collective industry, will take steps to influence how they come to be,
or if we will sit back unprepared only to allow reality to force
itself upon us.

It is our choice.

I know for a fact that there are breeders out there that will discuss
these things with you, realistically and without pulling any punches.
If you haven't found them yet, then keep looking.

Most of the seminars that you will be invited to are little more than
a way for the hosts to sell animals. Recognize them for what they are,
and the useful information that you hear will have more value.

Don't spend your money unless you have a plan. If you buy alpacas, buy
because you love the animals, not because you expect to get rich.

Know at what level you want to participate at in the industry. Know
exactly what your costs of entry will be, including all of your
infrastructure and equipment. Farming is a capital intensive
occupation.

Know that if you are in the right location you can easily make $60k a
year selling finished product out of a farm store, but also know that
if you are in the wrong location you could have $10k in inventory
sitting on shelves in your closet.

Enter the industry on your terms, and with your plan well established
in your mind. Remember, not all of us have the meticulous attention to
detail and record keeping, and the competitive nature that leads to a
herd like Mecklam's. Nor do all of us have the salesmanship and
marketing savvy that would support on operation like Safley's. Few of
us have the personality, capital or inner drive that could create
something like Magical Farms, nor do we all have the personality,
connections, values and desire for quality that creates a herd like
Derwydd's (just to name a few).

If you don't have what it takes to really succeed at that level, don't
frustrate yourself. Don't accept the idea that to be successful you
must follow their path.

Join us with open eyes, an open mind and a clear plan and you will be
part of what can only become a successful industry - in the long term
- but be prepared for a rough ride between here and there. There is
an awful lot of momentum that is keeping us all stuck in a rut. It
leads to in-fighting and condemnation that is unnecessary. That is
just how it is when strong personalities vie with each other in trying
to direct the bus we are all on.

There is a destination that will serve the needs of many, if not all,
industry players. The only real question is what route we will take
to get there.

I think that is a full nickel's worth there...

John Merrell
Gateway Farm Alpacas
http://www.gateway-alpacas.com
Alpaca, a natural elegance...

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Re: [Alpacasite] watz al da big deel abot bad spelin?

In a message dated 12/5/2005 5:15:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
alpacas@greystonemanor.biz writes:

> Really unless the spelling is outrageous who cares. This is not
> a
> >professional list it is just supposed to be friends sharing some
> >information and a few laughs. If you can read it and understand
> why make a
> >point of embarrassing someone.I am usually in a hurry and hope
> spell checks
> >catches it. When I am writing for my real job it is much more
> professional.
>

Ditto. I would hate for people to be afraid to ask questions, because they
are worried about their spelling.
Sharon Tree WA

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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Use of colloidal silver

Lisa..............I asked for "colloidal silver" at the health food store
and was given a product "Argentum Metallicum"..........a mixture of Argentum
Metallicum and purified water intended to be taken internally but which I
use as an ear wash. I don't use it for ear mites, but to sluice out the
outer ear canal after the mites have been eradicated or if the ear canal is
inflamed/irritated. Works for me:-)

Barrie Hanslip
Sooke, BC

>
> Barry -- Question about your "colloidal silver" treatment for ear
> mites. Which form do you use: ionic silver, silver protein, or
> true colloidal silver??? And do you flush the ears with it, or
> just dab on a cloth (?) and wipe the outer ear canal?
>
> Warmest Regards,
> Lisa Olsen

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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: $205,000 Female -

Sonda,

I apologize if you feel that another perspective is a flip answer. Like
I mentioned, there will always be conflicting opinions on any aspect of
any industry. Doesn't mean I discount your opinion (and I would hope you
wouldn't immediately discount mine) and I fully support your right to
voice yours, unlike some of our other subjects. Maybe some feel super
high prices will benefit the industry, obviously they are voting with
their pocket books.

Tim Wilson
Sterling Forrest Alpacas
Chagrin Falls, OH

Sondac wrote:

>Tim,
>
>With all due respect, what we are talking about is super high
>prices. I was hoping for a real discussion, not a flip answer. OF
>COURSE, super low prices would not be desirable.
>
>What I would like to read is a thoughtful answer to my question.
>
>Sonda Caffrey
>Honey Creek Farm
>Gardner, KS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, Tim Wilson <tpwilson2@a...> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Sondac wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I hope someone can explain to me how the super high prices that
>>>
>>>
>have
>
>
>>>been touted on this site can possibly be good news for my small
>>>
>>>
>alpaca
>
>
>>>farm, and those thousands of other farms like mine.
>>>
>>>Sonda Caffrey
>>>Honey Creek Farm
>>>Gardner, KS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Sonda,
>>
>>I imagine there will always be conflicting opinions on any aspect
>>
>>
>of any
>
>
>>industry regardless of ones perspective. However I have to ponder
>>
>>
>the
>
>
>>contrarian position of your question:
>>
>>"How could super low prices be good news for my small alpaca farm,
>>
>>
>and
>
>
>>thousands of other farms like mine"?
>>
>>Tim Wilson
>>Sterling Forrest Alpacas
>>Chagrin Falls, OH
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>http://aaalpacas.com
>
>
>
>TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: $205,000 Female -

Ian,

I never said that the alternative HAD to be. I just asked to ponder the
possible opposite alternative. One should be careful for what they ask
for, they might get it.

Tim Wilson
Sterling Forrest Alpacas
Chagrin Falls, OH

Ian Watt wrote:

>Tim,
>Why would the alternative to super high prices have to be super low
>prices?
>Cheers,
>Ian Watt
>On Dec 6, 2005, at 8:11 PM, Tim Wilson wrote:
>
>
>
>>Sondac wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I hope someone can explain to me how the super high prices that have
>>>been touted on this site can possibly be good news for my small
>>>alpaca
>>>farm, and those thousands of other farms like mine.
>>>
>>>Sonda Caffrey
>>>Honey Creek Farm
>>>Gardner, KS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Sonda,
>>
>>I imagine there will always be conflicting opinions on any aspect
>>of any
>>industry regardless of ones perspective. However I have to ponder the
>>contrarian position of your question:
>>
>>"How could super low prices be good news for my small alpaca farm, and
>>thousands of other farms like mine"?
>>
>>Tim Wilson
>>Sterling Forrest Alpacas
>>Chagrin Falls, OH
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
>>the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
>>message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>>
>>
>>
>>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>>alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>>http://aaalpacas.com
>>
>>
>>
>>TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@alpacaweb.com
>http://aaalpacas.com
>
>
>
>TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[Alpacasite] Re: $205,000 Female -


Tim,

With all due respect, what we are talking about is super high
prices. I was hoping for a real discussion, not a flip answer. OF
COURSE, super low prices would not be desirable.

What I would like to read is a thoughtful answer to my question.

Sonda Caffrey
Honey Creek Farm
Gardner, KS

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, Tim Wilson <tpwilson2@a...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Sondac wrote:
>
> >
> >I hope someone can explain to me how the super high prices that
have
> >been touted on this site can possibly be good news for my small
alpaca
> >farm, and those thousands of other farms like mine.
> >
> >Sonda Caffrey
> >Honey Creek Farm
> >Gardner, KS
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Sonda,
>
> I imagine there will always be conflicting opinions on any aspect
of any
> industry regardless of ones perspective. However I have to ponder
the
> contrarian position of your question:
>
> "How could super low prices be good news for my small alpaca farm,
and
> thousands of other farms like mine"?
>
> Tim Wilson
> Sterling Forrest Alpacas
> Chagrin Falls, OH
>

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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: $205,000 Female -

Tim,
Why would the alternative to super high prices have to be super low
prices?
Cheers,
Ian Watt
On Dec 6, 2005, at 8:11 PM, Tim Wilson wrote:

>
>
> Sondac wrote:
>
>>
>> I hope someone can explain to me how the super high prices that have
>> been touted on this site can possibly be good news for my small
>> alpaca
>> farm, and those thousands of other farms like mine.
>>
>> Sonda Caffrey
>> Honey Creek Farm
>> Gardner, KS
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Sonda,
>
> I imagine there will always be conflicting opinions on any aspect
> of any
> industry regardless of ones perspective. However I have to ponder the
> contrarian position of your question:
>
> "How could super low prices be good news for my small alpaca farm, and
> thousands of other farms like mine"?
>
> Tim Wilson
> Sterling Forrest Alpacas
> Chagrin Falls, OH
>
>
>
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> ~->
>
> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
> the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
> message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
> alpacas@alpacaweb.com
> http://aaalpacas.com
>
>
>
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: $205,000 Female -

Sonda
In case you don't know who we are, we have been in the business for
about 12 years.
We also are a small farm. When we got into the business we decided to go for
quality. We were very lucky to get Misty Maiden when we first started out,
Misty was also bought by a small farm. ANYONE of any size can do it. Don't
judge anything by the size of the farm. We are still in shock and very excited.
We also never thought we could compete with some of the other farms. You can
win the blue,win the championships and have great sales so.............
GO FOR IT!

Sue Bailey

Silver Creek Alpacas



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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: $205,000 Female -

Sondac wrote:

>
>I hope someone can explain to me how the super high prices that have
>been touted on this site can possibly be good news for my small alpaca
>farm, and those thousands of other farms like mine.
>
>Sonda Caffrey
>Honey Creek Farm
>Gardner, KS
>
>
>
>
Sonda,

I imagine there will always be conflicting opinions on any aspect of any
industry regardless of ones perspective. However I have to ponder the
contrarian position of your question:

"How could super low prices be good news for my small alpaca farm, and
thousands of other farms like mine"?

Tim Wilson
Sterling Forrest Alpacas
Chagrin Falls, OH

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RE: [Alpacasite] You should resign as a Director of the Alpaca Fiber Cooperative

OK, I have been lurking for quite some time now. I am interested in the
business, mainly because I have the available land, I love the animals, and
I love the idea of having the possibility of another income source. I have
been to seminars, had farm visits, picked animals, I think I want to
specialize in Suri's. Every person I have talked to in the business talks
about the importance of the fiber market, and that is the goal for the
industry. Who would know better about the truth of this statement than the
Director of the Fiber Cooperative? Do people in the industry disagree with
the numbers given by Mr Merrill, or is it the grim truth? I understand
everyone on this list has something to lose if this is in fact the truth,
and that would cause for some defensiveness to his statements, but for an
industry that prides itself on integrity shouldn't this be addressed
truthfully with people like me, potential buyers?

Not one person in the industry has given this opinion to me about the future
of the fiber market. Am I to assume that alpacas are a fad livestock and
change my business plan to get in, make as many sales as possible to recoup
my investment, and try to do this all the while without using the future of
the fiber market as a selling point, instead of slow growth, high quality
breeding, and focused marketing?

I am confused and concerned. Please feel free to contact me privately if
needed, but I would like to hear other opinions.

Thanks,

Chris

Chris Miller

Namaste Vineyards

5600 Van Well Road, Dallas, Oregon 97338

Phone: 503-623-4150

Fax: 503-212-0117

www.namastevineyards.com

"The Spirit of the Wine Honors the Spirit of the Vine."

-----Original Message-----
From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of gepp1
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 10:27 PM
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alpacasite] You should resign as a Director of the Alpaca Fiber
Cooperative

You don't believe in the industry. You don't believe in
the "vision". You don't have vision.

Please stick with "old style" llamas,

Sorry,
Greystone Manor
Gary Epp

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "gatewayfarm" <johnwmerrell@e...>
wrote:
>
> Gary, there are a number of errors in your figures, errors that
are
> unfortunately freely promulgated through the alpaca industry.
>
> It is extremely difficult to get accurate prices for alpaca in th
> global market. That said, if we look here:
>
> http://www.gschneider.com/brochure/specialfibresalpacatrend.php
>
> we can see that baby alpaca has held a pretty consistant $15 a
kilo
> for the past several years. That is about $7 a pound.
>
> If we compare this with Mohair, then we can go here:
>
> http://www.mohairusa.com/
>
> and find that in October of this year it was going for a little
over
> $8 a pound.
>
> While the value of alpaca is many thimes that of wool, it hardly
> stands above other specialty animal fibers.
>
> This is something that all producers should be aware of.
>
> I am not sure where your figures of 12-15 sweaters comes from. I
think
> that currently we should use a conservative estimate of 5 pounds
of
> prime fleece per animal. We should also figure greater than 10%
waste
> in processing.
>
> So, we are probably looking at no more than 4.5 pounds of finished
> yarn per animal per year. With waste from the manufacturing
process, I
> would guess no more than 3-5 sweaters per animal.
>
> That would produce a gross income of perhaps $400-500 annually.
But,
> we have yet to subtract the costs of keeping the animals, shearing
the
> animals, or shipping off the fiber for processing.
>
> In large quantities it is probably realistic to have raw fiber
> processed to yarn for $10-12 a pound, including scouring,
spinning,
> shipping, packaging, etc.
>
> So, for argument, let's assume that it costs $50 to keep each
animal a
> year (feed, vet, infrastructure, etc.), $20 to shear each animal,
$1
> pound to ship the fiber off, and $10 a pound to spin th fiber into
> yarn. I am sure that most would agree these are conservative
figures.
>
> 50+20+(1*5)+(10*5)=$125 annual cost
>
> Let's assume the yarn is worth $20 pound at the distributor level
>
> $20*5 = $100
>
> Do you begin to see some problems emerging?
>
> So, let's process that yarn into sweaters. Let's assume we can
get
> sweaters made for $25 a unit (including labeling and packaging),
and
> we get 3 out of each animal. So now our costs are
>
> 125+(3*25)=$200
>
> We can sell these sweaters for $150 each retail, but as we all
know
> retail is twice wholesale, which is twice what the distributor
gets.
> As primary producers, let's assume we are at the distributor
level So
>
> 150/2=75/2= $37.50 a unit
>
> 37.5*3=$122.50
>
> Oops, we are now losing over $75 an animal each year producing
> sweaters that will retail for $150 each.
>
> We can of course try to vertically integrate at a higher level.
We
> could become wholesalers, or even retailers. The problems there
have
> to do with exponentially increasing expenses, since we now need to
> maintain inventory and pay warehouse staff, sales staff,
accountants,
> managers, etc.
>
> I can assure you, the hoped for margins will evaporate quickly.
>
> Why this exercise in number crunching? We need to get realistic.
>
> I think that it is reasonable to look towards a time when we can
see
> actual returns of $15-20 a pound to the fiber producer. This, of
> course, does not take into account the producers costs, meaning
that
> it will be incumbent on the producer to reduce their production
costs
> to a level that maintains profitablity. That means the end of $25
a
> head shearing, Igg testing on every animal, expensive veterinary
> interventions, routine chemical parasite controls, etc.
>
> In short, it means transitioning into a true livestock industry.
>
> Can this be done? Of course, but only with foresight, planning,
and a
> realistic appreciation of the task at hand.
>
> Further, it will be through this transition that a market will be
> maintained for high end animals. Without a SUSTAINABLE foundation
(i.
> e. livestock industry) the whole house will collapse. Continuing
the
> myth of $5 an ounce fiber does no one any favors at this point in
> time. it was good marketing 10 years ago. Now is the time to get
> real!
>
> It is good to keep in mind that we will have in excess of one
million
> alpacas within the next 15 years. It is also important to
understand
> that the figures I share above assume collective efforts to
harvest
> and process the fleece our animals produce.
>
> As a Director of the Alpaca Fiber Cooperative I have spent many
hours
> agonizing over these numbers. It might be easier if we were not
> involved in a global economy, but such is not the case. We must be
> prepared to compete with low priced goods from Asia and South
America.
>
> I assure you, experienced livestock producers shake their heads in
> disbelief when they see figures like what you have shared below.
>
> John Merrell
> Gateway Farm Alpacas
> http://www.gateway-alpacas.com
> Alpaca, a natural elegance...
>
> --- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "gepp1" <alpacas@g...> wrote:
> >
> > This is refering to:
> >
> > http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/message/105021?
> > threaded=1
> >
> > Hi Susan Gawarecki,
> >
> > The big difference in pricing between alpacas and llamas is the
base
> > value of the fleece. People have been buying cashmere for
hundreds
> > of years at a 5 - 20 times price premium over wool. Low micron
count
> > camilids fiber should always command a price premium similar to
> > cashmere. There are llama breeders that have been successful in
> > breeding llamas with fine fleece in reasonable shearing weights
and
> > they are still getting good prices. I know two that have waiting
> > lists for every cria. The older style llamas produced smaller
> > amounts of high micron fleece than an average alpaca. By the
way,
> > when we are considering an alpaca breed standard we should
consider
> > this lesson.
> >
> > An alpaca that yields 6-8 pounds per year of mid to low 20
micron
> > fleece is producing a renewable product worth more than $2000
gross
> > (12-15 sweaters) annually. At the same time a young breeding dam
in
> > good reproductive health will produce a minimum of 3 breed able
> > female and 3 fleece quality male cria. Therefore a young
breeding
> > quality female will be responsible for 42 - 56 pounds of fleece
in
> > her 10th year. That works out to $14,000 to 16,000 per year if
you
> > kept and bred that dam. How much do you think the investment
> > community values a stock whose gross revenue increases by a
factor
> > of 6 in ten years, that's a 40+% compound growth rate.
> >
> > If that dam is for sale NOW as a stock, the investment community
> > would value the stock at least 5 times current revenue ($2000 X
5 =
> > $10,000) plus about 50% expected 2 year appreciation (50% X
$11,000
> > = $5,500). You might ask where that $11,000 comes from. It's the
> > base price of one breed able female ($10,000) and one fleece
quality
> > male cria ($1000).
> >
> > The above example uses VERY conservative numbers and assumptions
but
> > clearly establishes a base value for a reproductively sound
maiden
> > in the $10,000 to $20,000 range. Where things get tricky is when
> > people pay $20,000 to $100,000 for females. The buyer is paying
> > a "premium" on speculation that the females genetics combined
with
> > an appropriate stud will produce offspring that improve on the
$2000
> > annual gross figure and the base value of the cria she will
produce.
> >
> > It gets even trickier when breeders pay over $100,000 for studs.
> > Let's say that a $200,000 stud has 100 cria, forget stud fees
and
> > taxes for a moment, part of the value question becomes, "has
that
> > stud increased the base value of its 100 cria by an average of
$2000
> > each"? If so the stud fees and tax breaks are gravy.
> >
> > Just some thoughts on alpaca value,
> > Greystone Manor
> > Gary Epp
> >
>

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Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

[Alpacasite] Re: $205,000 Female -

Ian,

I would like to think that a reasonable, honest, and open discussion
could ensue, because I am struggling to find a way to join the
rejoicing at these extraordinary prices.

I hope someone can explain to me how the super high prices that have
been touted on this site can possibly be good news for my small alpaca
farm, and those thousands of other farms like mine.

Sonda Caffrey
Honey Creek Farm
Gardner, KS

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, Ian Watt <alpacaconsult@e...> wrote:
>
> I wonder if it is possible to have a reasonable, honest and open
> discussion about the high prices being reported recently ... and,
> presumably, in the future, without too much grief and personality
> clashes?
> Ian Watt

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[Alpacasite] message for marvin miller

If Marvin & Jean Miller are out there, I have a greeting for them from an old friend. Please email me at mada@gci.net.

Mada Angell
sleeping lady alpacas
Anchorage, Alaska

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[Alpacasite] Re: Fix windows

Plexiglass has a limited life... If you opt for Polycarbonate (Lexan is one
brand name) which is significantly more expensive and available at most
"plastic sheet stockists" you will find that it can be cut slightly oversize
and "sprung" into the vents for winter and popped out again in the summer.
It will not crack.

Sincerely,

Mike Scott
Camanche Ranch Alpacas
<mailto:mike@camanche-ranch.com>
<http://www.camanche-ranch.com>
Voice (209) 274-0858
Fax (209) 274-0854
Cell (209) 304-7840
NOW on <http://www.alpacanation.com/camancheranch.asp>

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:16:21 -0500
From: Cathy Stephenson <midnightfire@chestertel.com>
Subject: Re: Fix windows

I always used plexi glass but you have to pre drill the holes before
installing or it will crack. Cathy
StephenOakes Farms
Chester, SC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcieks" <marcieks@charter.net>
To: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 6:54 PM
Subject: [Alpacasite] Fix windows

> Can someone tell me what the best material is to put over top trailer
> openings to keep the elements out?
> On our way to home depot...
>
> Thanks
>
> Marcie K. Sanders
> Alpacalocks Farm
> 925 Glendale Road
> Wilbraham, Massachusetts 01095
> 1-413-596-9626
> marcieks@charter.net
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

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Re: [Alpacasite] Power washer suggestions?

Hi there,
First you have to decide if you want electric or gas. If electric, a good electric powerwasher will draw about 10 amps, so you need a good dedicated circuit and you probably can't use more than 30 feet of elec. cord or you'll get voltage-drop.
1200 to 1500 PSI would be well suited for farm & home needs.
A gas washer with a 5 hp or higher motor would be excellent and far more portable for farm use. Obviously, no cord, no power restrictions, it could go anywhere. Can be a little more expensive, but more versatile.
We have an electric one and it's used for cleaning the trucks, farm equipment, go-karts, 4-wheelers, inside/outside of the barn, house siding, driveway, garage floor, etc. Very handy and a well used item. A good electric one would run $250-350. A gas washer, closer to $300-600. If for farm use, would be tax deductible.
Stay away from the ones that are labeled for "home use", too weak and break easy and it's hard to find parts for them.
Have fun shopping :)
Chris

Chris Mills
Outback Alpacas
507 Peck Rd.
Spencerport, NY 14559
585.392.3639
kusisqa@rochester.rr.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Kimberly Louie
To: alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 10:58 AM
Subject: [Alpacasite] Power washer suggestions?

I'd like some input before I buy a power washer.

I see that they come with different gallons per minute and water
pressure output. Of course, those things affect price.

Right now we live in the "city" and are remodelling our future farm
site. I have a few jobs lined up to use that pressure washer during
the remodelling. Father-in-law says to just rent one. I'm pretty
sure we'll be needing one once the ranch is in full swing so I'd
rather invest in the right one now.

I'd like to keep the cost below $500. Costco has two and Northern
Tool have 4 or so under that price. Those two sites are pretty
representative of what's available at other sources in that price
point.

So my questions are:

what are some examples of how I'd use it on the ranch?

What PSI and GPM should I look for?

What other features should I look for?

Thanks in advance,
Kimberly Louie
San Jose, CA
Humming Hearts Ranch

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Re: [Alpacasite] Power washer suggestions?

>I'd like some input before I buy a power washer.
>
>I see that they come with different gallons per minute and water
>pressure output. Of course, those things affect price.
>
>Right now we live in the "city" and are remodelling our future farm
>site. I have a few jobs lined up to use that pressure washer during
>the remodelling. Father-in-law says to just rent one. I'm pretty
>sure we'll be needing one once the ranch is in full swing so I'd
>rather invest in the right one now.
>
>I'd like to keep the cost below $500. Costco has two and Northern
>Tool have 4 or so under that price. Those two sites are pretty
>representative of what's available at other sources in that price
>point.
>
>So my questions are:
>
>what are some examples of how I'd use it on the ranch?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are repainting something the power washer does the "sanding"
job for you.
When you wash the car/truck/tractor it will get off huge gobs of mud
that won't come off any other way.
When you want to really get a concrete floor clean, use the washer
just 6 or 8 inches from the floor. We used to wash old wine stains
off that way.

>
>What PSI and GPM should I look for?

Can't comment on these last two. We bought a medium priced Karcher
washer at Costco maybe 10 - 15 years ago and it still functions fine.

I'd sure buy one. And I think that the middle of the line things
should be quite powerful enough for most jobs.

Jan Sherrill
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>What other features should I look for?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Kimberly Louie
>San Jose, CA
>Humming Hearts Ranch
>
>
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>
>
>
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><http://aaalpacas.com>http://aaalpacas.com
>
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>
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--
Jan Sherrill
Celestial Alpacas
Central Coast of California
Templeton
mailto:pacamom@lightspeed.net

805/238-2628

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[Alpacasite] Re: Getting $200+ per pound of fleece

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "gepp1" <alpacas@g...> wrote:
>
>
> AOBA and AFCNA need to conduct research in marketing alpaca fiber to
> end users where the unique attributes of alpaca fleece do provide
> substantial added value. I agree that turning each year's production
> into 4-10 sweaters for Christmas gifts isn't the future of an
> industry where people (like you) market alpaca for $12,000 to
> $25,000.

It is, in my opinion (and that of many more experienced and
knowledgable people than myself) that creating a product and searching
for consumers is a recipe for failure.

Instead, the AFCNA Board is attempting to find manufacturers and
products that we can supply superior materials for. In part, this
shifts the risks and costs of product development and marketing to
those that cna better afford it.

Ian Watt has posted extensively about lessons learned by Australian
wool producers in this regard.

>
> Rather than resign as an AFCNA director (I admit that was harsh) get
> the AFCNA to research higher margin markets for alpaca products.

Perhaps you would be interested in joining the AFCNA Board of
Directors? We are currently seeking persons interested in running for
a Board seat.

We also need volunteers. I could use some help with the updating of
the co-op's business plan.

John Merrell
Gateway Farm Alpacas
http://www.gateway-alpacas.com
Alpaca, a natural elegance...

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Re: [Alpacasite] Question about the use of Concrete

We have a concrete floor in our barn. No problems, in fact we do not seem to have to cut nails often.

cpqcolor <PaulKimball@earthlink.net> wrote: This is going to sound crazy, but I was asked to post this:

My Father in Law read the recent article in Hobby Farms regarding the
use of concrete in stalls, etc. and he is now interested in putting
down concrete in all our stalls in both barns AND the overhang (shed)
areas on the barns sides to facilitate cleaning and lessen dust.

Has anyone else done this? I'm thinking unless you put down rubber
mats over the concrete it would be too rough on the Alpaca's joints -
not to mention that every gasp of panic when a newborn is trying to
stand and is falling on their face. Any opinions? What about spray-
on rubber over the concrete?

Thanks

Paul Kimball
Bluff View Farms LLC
Birchwood, TN

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Jim and Sharon Dear
St. Lawrence County
Potsdam, New York
Alpacas came home 9-11-04
THE DEAR ALPACA FARM
www.dearalpacafarm.com


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[Alpacasite] Personal attacks - Final notice

These personal attacks stop NOW
This is not usenet
This is not the politics site.
Personal attacks can go privately, go to the politics site, or you can start
your own group.
Here's a link
<http://groups.yahoo.com/start>
BTW, the name alpacacrabs is already taken.

Rick
--
Rick & Pati Horn
All American Alpacas
Murrieta, Ca.
http://aaalpacas.com/updates.html
alpacas@alpacaweb.com - alpacas(at)alpacaweb.com
(951) 679-7795
Life is good!

> From: "Susan Ravan" <sravan@ellijay.com>
> Reply-To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:29:32 -0500
> To: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Digest Number 5191
>
> I guess John needs some rose colored glasses to improve his 'vision'. BTW,
> it would be a big help for those on digest if folks would trim posts. Gary,
> why get huffy and start giving orders to John? Really think he'll follow
> them? If your figures are correct, laugh all the way to the bank. If your
> figures aren't ...........
> Susan Ravan
>
>
> You don't believe in the industry. You don't believe in
> the "vision". You don't have vision.
>
> Please stick with "old style" llamas,
>
> Sorry,
> Greystone Manor
> Gary Epp
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the person
> posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way
> reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@alpacaweb.com
> http://aaalpacas.com
>
>
>
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Re: [Alpacasite] Digest Number 5191

I guess John needs some rose colored glasses to improve his 'vision'. BTW,
it would be a big help for those on digest if folks would trim posts. Gary,
why get huffy and start giving orders to John? Really think he'll follow
them? If your figures are correct, laugh all the way to the bank. If your
figures aren't ...........
Susan Ravan

You don't believe in the industry. You don't believe in
the "vision". You don't have vision.

Please stick with "old style" llamas,

Sorry,
Greystone Manor
Gary Epp

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[Alpacasite] FEMALE SELLS FOR $205K

Congratulations , George & Sue !! We were fortunate to purchase SCA Peruvian Desert Sun out of Misty Maiden several years ago, along with a Misty Maiden daughter, Mohogony Rose. Rose is now owned by Crescent Moon, producing well for them, and David & Vicky Brooks just purchased half-interest in Desert Sun from us and he'll be at Heatherbrook next week for 6 months...so the Misty Maiden genetics will be on both coasts! How great it is to see a female's genetics rated as high or higher than the male in the breeding quotient.
Lucy Farrar
Front Range Alpacas, LLC
Monument, CO ph. 719-488-0986
www.coloradoalpaca.com<http://www.coloradoalpaca.com/>
Home of Peruvians Desert Sun,Aladdin & now AVANTI!

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Re: [Alpacasite] FEMALE SELLS FOR $205K



Hi,

I should have scanned the more recent subject lines prior to responding.

Copper and Ken,

WOW!!! What a fantastic girl you have added to your already impressive
herd. I am sure you had to do a lot of arm twisting to get Sue to part with this
one.

Congratulations to all and best wishes.

Barrie Lynn

Barrie Lynn Wood
Benchmark Alpacas at the Tin Roof Ranch
Ortonville - soon to be Goodrich, MI

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Re: [Alpacasite] $205,000 Female -

I wonder if it is possible to have a reasonable, honest and open
discussion about the high prices being reported recently ... and,
presumably, in the future, without too much grief and personality
clashes?
Ian Watt
On Dec 6, 2005, at 2:17 PM, benchmarkalpacas@aol.com wrote:

>
>
> Again,
>
>
> Not from the horses mouth .... but this is what I heard:
>
> Misty Maiden -- at approximately 13 years of age -- sold for
> $205,000!!
>
> If this is the girl and the price, I do know that she is the Dam of
> MANY
> Champion offspring -- no matter which male she has been bred to.
>
> Barrie Lynn Wood
> Benchmark Alpacas at the Tin Roof Ranch
> Ortonville - soon to be Goodrich, MI
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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[Alpacasite] $205,000 Female -



Again,

Not from the horses mouth .... but this is what I heard:

Misty Maiden -- at approximately 13 years of age -- sold for $205,000!!

If this is the girl and the price, I do know that she is the Dam of MANY
Champion offspring -- no matter which male she has been bred to.

Barrie Lynn Wood
Benchmark Alpacas at the Tin Roof Ranch
Ortonville - soon to be Goodrich, MI

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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Llama in car...

Susan,
I think Gary may have overlooked the context in which you referred to
the $50 per wether (gelding).
This is a sum that I had been quoting for many years when I was the
National President of the Australian Alpaca Association and it is a
figure I still stick with today.
It is not really rocket science to work the figures backward to
understand why $50 is a fair, average price for a fair, average
quality fibre producing wether/gelding.
And, for the record, merino wethers do not sell in the $200 bracket
but they are worth more because they have a meat, pelt and byproduct
value when their productive wool producing life is ended at about 6
years of age.
Cheers,
Ian Watt

On Dec 6, 2005, at 11:17 AM, Susan Gawarecki wrote:

> Gary Epp asked:
>
> <<Where did you get that figure of $50 for a fleece
> grade alpaca in
> Australia? Even Marino sheep cost $200 and up
> worldwide.
>
> Are you trying to say a fleece alpaca is worth 1/4
> what a Marino
> sheep is?>>
>
> That was published in Llama Life II in a report on the
> Australian alpaca industry. It was a GOAL for a
> mature national alpaca herd--obviously the reality is
> currently far different.
>
> Susan Gawarecki
> Pathfinder Farm
> Andersonville, TN
>
>
>
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Re: [Alpacasite] From Amy - Congratulations George and Sue!

all I can say is WOW for both seller and buyer and now I know that the
"vision" is possible as well and the industry coming for the USA Cathy
StephenOakes Farms
Chester, SC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Amy McCroskie" <amywm@aol.com>
To: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 2:47 PM
Subject: [Alpacasite] From Amy - Congratulations George and Sue!

>
> George and Sue,
>
> Congratulations on the sale. This is fabulous news! Congratulations
> to the new purchasers, Ken and Cooper Smith! Misty sounds like an
> incredible dam! Here's to your successful new future with her!
>
>
> --- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, GGBSMB@A... wrote:
>>
>> With alot of mixed emotion and excitement, Silver Creek Alpacas
> would like to announce the sale of PPPeruvian Misty Maiden to Pepper
> Pot Farms for the price of $205k. Misty has been known all through
> the alpaca industry for producing multiple champions. For more
> information please go to.
>>
>> _www.alpacanation.com/pepperpotfarm.asp_
>> (http://www.alpacanation.com/pepperpotfarm.asp)
>>
>> THANK YOU KEN AND COOPER SMITH
>>
>> George and Sue Bailey
>> Silver Creek Alpacas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the
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> way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
>
>
> List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
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[Alpacasite] Fw: CHECKING IN ON YOU...

Got the below message from my daughter, To bad this isn't an alpaca. Maybe some one who knows computers could put in an alpaca. Cathy
StephenOakes Farms
Chester, SC

----- Original Message -----
From: Sheila
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:40 AM
Subject: CHECKING IN ON YOU...

Hello there!

Thought I'd check in on you to see if you are at your computer...yep...there you are!















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Re: [Alpacasite] Fix windows

I always used plexi glass but you have to pre drill the holes before
installing or it will crack. Cathy
StephenOakes Farms
Chester, SC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcieks" <marcieks@charter.net>
To: <Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 6:54 PM
Subject: [Alpacasite] Fix windows

> Can someone tell me what the best material is to put over top trailer
> openings to keep the elements out?
> On our way to home depot...
>
> Thanks
>
> Marcie K. Sanders
> Alpacalocks Farm
> 925 Glendale Road
> Wilbraham, Massachusetts 01095
> 1-413-596-9626
> marcieks@charter.net
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
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> person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no
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