Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Saturday, February 14, 2009

Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: Bone Tumor update

Thanks Janice!

I suppose Brandie could have had a different smell. She was given a very mild sedative, which I dont think she really would have needed. I stayed around after every thing was done. Amy also took a couple shots of her left leg too. I was looking at the new and old xrays and listening to the ray machine tech rep, to make sure Brandie was ok. The vet walked out with me to check on her before I left, and to give my dog, Red, a kiss.

Jim Guerin
Jimmini Farm
Yelm, WA

----- Original Message -----
From: houckj@aol.com
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 11:22 AM
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] RE: Bone Tumor update


<<<<> At this point, unless Dr. Anderson finds something, Brandie is on
> the mend!! ( very quietly doing a happy dance! )
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jim Guerin
> Jimini Farm>>>>

Oh Jim, what fantastic news. and so funny about Melody :-). I am
thinking that Brandie probably had that funny medicinal smell and other
animal smells and that was causing all the spitting.

Warmly, Janice



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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posted by Chaddo at 11:39 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: OB wire

It is possible... my mom and I trimmed teeth on a yearling girl a
couple of weeks ago, they're the ones that didn't turn out perfect
and we didn't get the dremel smoothing done. But now, they look just
fine. I'll try to remember to take pics of them tomorrow. I've got
the before and after trimming ones already. And actually she and I
did trim one of our adult male's teeth a few months ago, that were
getting pretty long. That was just the two of us that time, too.

So yeah, if you're quick, two people can do it. :) And if the
"holder" is strong. With a new wire, though it's really only a 30
second job. And I still can't believe the non-diamond encrusted wire
works, but it really does, and in fact it works better than the
diamond wire. Which is good because the diamond wire isn't available
any more.

Heather

On Feb 14, 2009, at 6:32 PM, LunarStruck@aol.com wrote:

> Its it possible to trim an alpaca's teeth (first time for me) with
> only two
> people or should I wait until I have a third available? (probably
> never)
>
> SUSAN OLSON
> Alpaca Loco
> Riverside, CA
>
> "I joined a health club last year, spent about $400.
> Haven't lost a pound yet. Apparently, you have to go there."
>
> In a message dated 2/14/2009 5:48:37 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com writes:
>
> Oh, right! I meant to answer that part again! Our wire is rather
> thin, about 1 to 1.5 mm in diameter. I have no idea how many strands
> it is, I still haven't looked, and it's in the barn. :) It comes on a
> very small flat spool, about 1/4" high by maybe 2.5" across, the 2.5"
> being the diameter of the spool.
>
> So, for trimming teeth, say you have an adult with all 6 incisors in.
> Maybe, like on some of ours, only the 1st and 2nd incisors are too
> long. The 3rd ones are usually ok. So we just start with the wire at
> the top of the 3rd set, and start sawing toward (myself), pulling the
> wire and sawing the 2nd incisors at an angle generally parallel to
> the gumline. When you get nearly through the teeth, they'll probably
> pop off and might hit you in the face. Not a bad idea to wear eye
> protection, especially if trimming fighting teeth! Anyway, you just
> proceed to the 1st incisors, pulling toward yourself, with strong
> pressure, as quickly as possible, because the alpaca will likely be
> trying to get away. They may not be perfect. If you have a dremel
> tool with a carbide drum type tip, and you have strong help to keep
> the alpaca restrained, you can then smooth off the teeth. Otherwise,
> don't worry too much, they'll smooth off on their own. In fact I have
> pics I'll post soon, before trim, after trim, and a couple weeks
> later with no dremel smoothing,
>
> Many people use a small rope dog chew toy to keep the mouth open a
> bit and the tongue pushed back out of the way of the wire. We also
> use the end of a roll of vetwrap, the sheath to a 6cc syringe...
> anything about 1/2" to 3/4" in diameter that isn't too hard.Even a
> piece of dowel would work ok.
>
> I'm gonna have to get video of trimming teeth with the wire sometime.
> It's really not hard, keeping the alpaca still is the hard part!
>
> I have no idea why Albon isn't listed as treatment for coccidia.
> Maybe someone else knows!
>
> Heather
>
> On Feb 14, 2009, at 5:31 PM, _houckj@aol.com_
> (mailto:houckj@aol.com) wrote:
>
> > <<<<OB wire: I purchase it from valleyvet.com It comes in a little
> > spool
> > of 11 yards for about $12, free freight.
> > >>>>
> >
> > Thanks Heather. Maybe my post didn't make it thru, I didn't see it,
> > but
> > for some reason the digest it should have been in didn't come to
> > me, so
> > don't know. Sorry if I am repeating myself, but what I was asking
> > about
> > was the appearance of the OB wire. I got some at my feed store. I
> > questioned it as it is so thick I don't see how it could go between
> > teeth to trim them down. It is 27 strand ss. He said it was the only
> > kind he had ever had and that people used it for cutting off horns.
> > Is that the same OB wire we are talking about here for trimming
> teeth?
> > And if so, how in the world do you get it between those loooong
> front
> > teeth or do you trim them both at the same time?
> >
> > Thanks! And thanks for the info about Albon. I was just wondered why
> > it is not listed as coccidia remedy or preventative.
> >
> > Warmly, Janice

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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posted by Chaddo at 7:36 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: OB wire

Its it possible to trim an alpaca's teeth (first time for me) with only two
people or should I wait until I have a third available? (probably never)

SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA

"I joined a health club last year, spent about $400.
Haven't lost a pound yet. Apparently, you have to go there."

In a message dated 2/14/2009 5:48:37 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com writes:

Oh, right! I meant to answer that part again! Our wire is rather
thin, about 1 to 1.5 mm in diameter. I have no idea how many strands
it is, I still haven't looked, and it's in the barn. :) It comes on a
very small flat spool, about 1/4" high by maybe 2.5" across, the 2.5"
being the diameter of the spool.

So, for trimming teeth, say you have an adult with all 6 incisors in.
Maybe, like on some of ours, only the 1st and 2nd incisors are too
long. The 3rd ones are usually ok. So we just start with the wire at
the top of the 3rd set, and start sawing toward (myself), pulling the
wire and sawing the 2nd incisors at an angle generally parallel to
the gumline. When you get nearly through the teeth, they'll probably
pop off and might hit you in the face. Not a bad idea to wear eye
protection, especially if trimming fighting teeth! Anyway, you just
proceed to the 1st incisors, pulling toward yourself, with strong
pressure, as quickly as possible, because the alpaca will likely be
trying to get away. They may not be perfect. If you have a dremel
tool with a carbide drum type tip, and you have strong help to keep
the alpaca restrained, you can then smooth off the teeth. Otherwise,
don't worry too much, they'll smooth off on their own. In fact I have
pics I'll post soon, before trim, after trim, and a couple weeks
later with no dremel smoothing,

Many people use a small rope dog chew toy to keep the mouth open a
bit and the tongue pushed back out of the way of the wire. We also
use the end of a roll of vetwrap, the sheath to a 6cc syringe...
anything about 1/2" to 3/4" in diameter that isn't too hard.Even a
piece of dowel would work ok.

I'm gonna have to get video of trimming teeth with the wire sometime.
It's really not hard, keeping the alpaca still is the hard part!

I have no idea why Albon isn't listed as treatment for coccidia.
Maybe someone else knows!

Heather

On Feb 14, 2009, at 5:31 PM, _houckj@aol.com_ (mailto:houckj@aol.com) wrote:

> <<<<OB wire: I purchase it from valleyvet.com It comes in a little
> spool
> of 11 yards for about $12, free freight.
> >>>>
>
> Thanks Heather. Maybe my post didn't make it thru, I didn't see it,
> but
> for some reason the digest it should have been in didn't come to
> me, so
> don't know. Sorry if I am repeating myself, but what I was asking
> about
> was the appearance of the OB wire. I got some at my feed store. I
> questioned it as it is so thick I don't see how it could go between
> teeth to trim them down. It is 27 strand ss. He said it was the only
> kind he had ever had and that people used it for cutting off horns.
> Is that the same OB wire we are talking about here for trimming teeth?
> And if so, how in the world do you get it between those loooong front
> teeth or do you trim them both at the same time?
>
> Thanks! And thanks for the info about Albon. I was just wondered why
> it is not listed as coccidia remedy or preventative.
>
> Warmly, Janice
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
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posted by Chaddo at 6:32 PM 0 comments

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: OB wire

Oh, right! I meant to answer that part again! Our wire is rather
thin, about 1 to 1.5 mm in diameter. I have no idea how many strands
it is, I still haven't looked, and it's in the barn. :) It comes on a
very small flat spool, about 1/4" high by maybe 2.5" across, the 2.5"
being the diameter of the spool.

So, for trimming teeth, say you have an adult with all 6 incisors in.
Maybe, like on some of ours, only the 1st and 2nd incisors are too
long. The 3rd ones are usually ok. So we just start with the wire at
the top of the 3rd set, and start sawing toward (myself), pulling the
wire and sawing the 2nd incisors at an angle generally parallel to
the gumline. When you get nearly through the teeth, they'll probably
pop off and might hit you in the face. Not a bad idea to wear eye
protection, especially if trimming fighting teeth! Anyway, you just
proceed to the 1st incisors, pulling toward yourself, with strong
pressure, as quickly as possible, because the alpaca will likely be
trying to get away. They may not be perfect. If you have a dremel
tool with a carbide drum type tip, and you have strong help to keep
the alpaca restrained, you can then smooth off the teeth. Otherwise,
don't worry too much, they'll smooth off on their own. In fact I have
pics I'll post soon, before trim, after trim, and a couple weeks
later with no dremel smoothing,

Many people use a small rope dog chew toy to keep the mouth open a
bit and the tongue pushed back out of the way of the wire. We also
use the end of a roll of vetwrap, the sheath to a 6cc syringe...
anything about 1/2" to 3/4" in diameter that isn't too hard.Even a
piece of dowel would work ok.

I'm gonna have to get video of trimming teeth with the wire sometime.
It's really not hard, keeping the alpaca still is the hard part!

I have no idea why Albon isn't listed as treatment for coccidia.
Maybe someone else knows!

Heather

On Feb 14, 2009, at 5:31 PM, houckj@aol.com wrote:

> <<<<OB wire: I purchase it from valleyvet.com It comes in a little
> spool
> of 11 yards for about $12, free freight.
> >>>>
>
> Thanks Heather. Maybe my post didn't make it thru, I didn't see it,
> but
> for some reason the digest it should have been in didn't come to
> me, so
> don't know. Sorry if I am repeating myself, but what I was asking
> about
> was the appearance of the OB wire. I got some at my feed store. I
> questioned it as it is so thick I don't see how it could go between
> teeth to trim them down. It is 27 strand ss. He said it was the only
> kind he had ever had and that people used it for cutting off horns.
> Is that the same OB wire we are talking about here for trimming teeth?
> And if so, how in the world do you get it between those loooong front
> teeth or do you trim them both at the same time?
>
> Thanks! And thanks for the info about Albon. I was just wondered why
> it is not listed as coccidia remedy or preventative.
>
> Warmly, Janice
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
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posted by Chaddo at 5:48 PM 0 comments

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[AlpacaTalk] RE: OB wire

<<<<OB wire: I purchase it from valleyvet.com It comes in a little spool
of 11 yards for about $12, free freight.
>>>>

Thanks Heather. Maybe my post didn't make it thru, I didn't see it, but
for some reason the digest it should have been in didn't come to me, so
don't know. Sorry if I am repeating myself, but what I was asking about
was the appearance of the OB wire. I got some at my feed store. I
questioned it as it is so thick I don't see how it could go between
teeth to trim them down. It is 27 strand ss. He said it was the only
kind he had ever had and that people used it for cutting off horns.
Is that the same OB wire we are talking about here for trimming teeth?
And if so, how in the world do you get it between those loooong front
teeth or do you trim them both at the same time?

Thanks! And thanks for the info about Albon. I was just wondered why
it is not listed as coccidia remedy or preventative.

Warmly, Janice

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posted by Chaddo at 5:31 PM 0 comments

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] ARGGHHH

OB wire: I purchase it from valleyvet.com It comes in a little spool
of 11 yards for about $12, free freight.

We also prefer not to use Corid unless we have a recurrence of
coccidia after treating with Albon. We get Albon liquid from our vet.
It is also available from Valley Vet:
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e078e5-7b6a-11d5-
a192-00b0d0204ae5
for the gallon size 12.5%. It can either be mixed in the water or
dosed orally.

Oregon State also recommends the 40% injectible suspension given by
mouth 1cc per 30 lbs of alpaca body weight.
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07bbe-7b6a-11d5-
a192-00b0d0204ae5

http://cascadealpacabreeders.com/index.php/Alpaca-Diseases/E-mac-or-I-
mac-Q-and-A.html
This article is specifically speaking to E. mac, but we prefer to use
Albon over Corid, as Coridd is a thiaminase, which means it depletes
or binds thiamine so that the coccidia can't reproduce, However, it
also depletes it from the alpaca, and can cause PEM, which you really
don't want to have to deal with.

If for some reason you don't get a digest, instead of asking people
to re-post, you can visit the group website and see all the posts
there. Just follow the link that says "Visit Your Group"

Heather

On Feb 14, 2009, at 11:29 AM, houckj@aol.com wrote:

> Wouldn't you know it, for some reason I did not get the Digest # 820,
> which would have contained any responses any of you gave to the
> questions I asked. If you responded to my questions re coccidosis and
> the OB Wire can you repost?
> Thanks! Janice
>
> Wait, I just realized I had not yet sent the question about
> coccidiosis
> yet! I am finally putting the finishing touches on what I want to
> order
> to have on hand here to deal swiftly with any possible problems. I
> appreicate all you that told me what you keep on hand for emergencies.
> I think my last remaining question along these lines is about
> coccidiosis. Some of you have said not to use the usual recommended
> Corid, but to use Albon instead. When I do a search for coccidiosis,
> the only thing that comes up is Corid and Amprolian (spelling wrong),
> which is Corid. Albon is under pneumonia and scours AND seems to only
> be offered as a "bolus". Can anyone clarify? What do you keep on hand
> to treat cria (or adult)coccidiosis? I have never to my knowledge had
> that here, but if not too expensive want to get the med in to have on
> hand "in case".
>
> Thanks again, Janice in NW GA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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posted by Chaddo at 12:08 PM 0 comments

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[AlpacaTalk] ARGGHHH

Wouldn't you know it, for some reason I did not get the Digest # 820,
which would have contained any responses any of you gave to the
questions I asked. If you responded to my questions re coccidosis and
the OB Wire can you repost?
Thanks! Janice

Wait, I just realized I had not yet sent the question about coccidiosis
yet! I am finally putting the finishing touches on what I want to order
to have on hand here to deal swiftly with any possible problems. I
appreicate all you that told me what you keep on hand for emergencies.
I think my last remaining question along these lines is about
coccidiosis. Some of you have said not to use the usual recommended
Corid, but to use Albon instead. When I do a search for coccidiosis,
the only thing that comes up is Corid and Amprolian (spelling wrong),
which is Corid. Albon is under pneumonia and scours AND seems to only
be offered as a "bolus". Can anyone clarify? What do you keep on hand
to treat cria (or adult)coccidiosis? I have never to my knowledge had
that here, but if not too expensive want to get the med in to have on
hand "in case".

Thanks again, Janice in NW GA

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posted by Chaddo at 11:29 AM 0 comments

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[AlpacaTalk] RE: Bone Tumor update

<<<<> At this point, unless Dr. Anderson finds something, Brandie is on
> the mend!! ( very quietly doing a happy dance! )
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jim Guerin
> Jimini Farm>>>>

Oh Jim, what fantastic news. and so funny about Melody :-). I am
thinking that Brandie probably had that funny medicinal smell and other
animal smells and that was causing all the spitting.

Warmly, Janice

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posted by Chaddo at 11:22 AM 0 comments

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Bone Tumor: Update

Thanks Susan and Heather. Fingers crossed here too. She still doesnt walk on that leg like the others do, but hopping things straighten out and are not as bad as I have been imagining.

I dont think I mentioned it, but I have been giving her SynoviG3 for the past three months. Whether or not if it helped, I dont know, but figured it couldnt hurt.

Thanks!

Jim Guerin
Jimmini Farm
Yelm, WA


----- Original Message -----
From: LunarStruck@aol.com
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Bone Tumor: Update


SO glad to hear she's better, Jim! Hope there is nothing major wrong with
her.

SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA

In a message dated 2/12/2009 1:12:18 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
jgyelwa@ywave.com writes:

HI Dave,

Just got back from the vets to have the digital pics taken. Amy, the vet
rechecked Brandie, really worked her over more so than last time. Brandie didnt
appear to even flinch!! She took the pics any way, and showed me what she had
seen in the flat xrays as they call them and the same thing in the new
xrays. What it looked like to me, not having a clue what else to call the ' spots
', looked like oblong spots. The digital tech rep was there too, so Brandie
was a hands on show and tell for them. I took her right into the office.

Amy did get in contact with Dr. Anderson, and from what Amy told him, this
is what he said to her a few days ago: >Yes. I agree with doing a medullary
aspirate or biopsy (I prefer biopsy). Given the species, it should not be bone
tumor, but need to find otu what it is. However, let's look at those rads.
There is a "lucent" looking area in the distal humerus that is an anatomical
feature too.> Amy is going to send a cd of the digitals to Dr. Anderson. I got
a cy of them also.

So that made me feel better, and with Brandie not showing any pain today
from the manipulating, helped me too!

Amy tried to get in touch with Dr. Pugh, dont know if she succeeded yet. He
had moved on some four years ago, and is with a pharmaceutical company, dont
remember which. Turns out that Amy knows Dr. Pugh.

At this point, unless Dr. Anderson finds something, Brandie is on the mend!!
( very quietly doing a happy dance! )

Thanks!

Jim Guerin
Jimini Farm
Yelm, WA

----- Original Message -----
From: David Friedman
To: _AlpacaTalk@yahoogroAlpacaT_ (mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com)
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Bone Tumor: Update

Jim,

Have you found out anything further that you might be able to pass along
to the site?

Dave

--
David and Esther Friedman
Adirondack Alpacas
"From the Womb to the Loom"
Remsen, NY
www.newyorkalpacas.www.newy
315-831-3040

J Guerin wrote:
>
> Thank you Dave. I will tell my vet and have them send em after we have
> xrays taken.
>
> Jim Guerin
> Jimmini Farm
> Yelm, Wa
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Friedman
> To: _AlpacaTalk@yahoogroAlpacaT_ (mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com)
<mailto:AlpacaTalk%mailto:AlpacaTmai>
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 7:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Bone Tumor: Update
>
>
> Jim,
>
> I would contact Dr. David Anderson. He is at Kansas State University.
> Amongst his many talents, he is a world class camelid expert and a
> veterinary orthopedist.
> /David/ E /Anderson/, /DVM/, MS, DACVS Professor and Section Head,
> Agricultural Practices Phone: 785-532-5700. E-mail:
> _danderso@vet.danderso@ve_ (mailto:danderso@vet.k-state.edu)
<mailto:danderso%mailto:dandersmai>
>
> Good luck with your Brandie.
>
> Dave
>
> --
> David and Esther Friedman
> Adirondack Alpacas
> "From the Womb to the Loom"
> Remsen, NY
> www.newyorkalpacas. www
> 315-831-3040
>
> J Guerin wrote:
> >
> > Hi Janice,
> >
> > No, you are not the only one to loose these critters. It hurts no
> > matter who looses one. I am trying to keep a positive attitude around
> > Brandie. Its not easy. I feel so bad when one of the kids are hurt,
> > whether it is one of the alpacas, mini horses, donkeys, or my dog.
> >
> > I plan to take Brandie to the vet next week, then the wait, again, for
> > word from who ever is chosen to read the x rays. It took a month to
> > find out what I did. I still have to wonder if it is indeed the
> > humorus bone.
> >
> > I am hoping it is not as bad as it seems, or at least is correctable.
> >
> > Any ideas as to where would be a very good place to send the x rays to
> > be read by some one that knows what they are looking at, and not have
> > to compare them to other species? Oregon State was the one that got
> > the, shall I call them the regular x rays.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Jim Guerin
> > Jimmini Farm
> > Yelm, WA
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: _houckj@aol.com_ (mailto:houckj@aol.com)
<mailto:houckj%mailto:ho>
> <mailto:houckj%mailto:ho>
> > To: _AlpacaTalk@yahoogroAlpacaT_ (mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com)
<mailto:AlpacaTalk%mailto:AlpacaTmai>
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%mailto:AlpacaTmai>
> > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 6:18 AM
> > Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Bone Tumor: Update
> >
> >
> > <<<<After loosing her Mom, Aran and a baby girl from my other old girl
> > that died in my arms in 2007, this just about does it. It just keeps
> > reminding me of the screwing I got from ' North Americas Largest Alpaca
> > Mill '. I wonder how many others who have bought there, like how they
> > were / are, treated after their money was handed over...
> >
> > Jim Guerin
> > Jimmini Farm
> > Yelm, WA >>>>
> >
> > Oh Jim I hear and feel your heartache. I have lost so many myself;
> > thought I was the only one. So very sorry to hear of your losses as
> > well. It stinks.
> > But truly take what Susan said to heart and try not to feel sorry for
> > Brandie in her presence. It is so important to keep a positive attitude
> > around her. Pity (for her or yourself) never healed anyone. She has a
> > sweet heart. Love her love her love her, but let her be an
> > alpaca.....with her herd. When will you get more info? The not knowing
> > is so hard. But in the not knowing is also the very real possibility
> > that this is not as bad as it seems.
> >
> > Warmly, Janice in NW GA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

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posted by Chaddo at 10:34 AM 0 comments