alpacas: 10/10/07

Re: [AlpacaTalk] shearing

Alpacas in warmer climates MUST be sheared in the Spring, preferably a full
body shearing. To not shear is risking signing a death warrant, regardless
of fans, misters, sprinkling, etc. It only takes a short period of high
temps with no one there to hose the belly and they're dead. When we find
animals that have not been sheared in the Spring we make sure that the owner
at least gets an emergency barrel cut on the body or we do it for them to
help the animal survive the summer. Many alpacas died this summer in the
Southeast... some because they were not sheared.

Jess

Jess & Cookie Bowers
Acres of Love Alpaca Ranch
Acres of Love Alpaca Transport
11006 N 92nd East Ave
Owasso, OK 74055-6531
(918) 327-3519
Fax (918) 272-0969
WWW.Acresoflove.com

----- Original Message -----
From: <houckj@aol.com>
To: <AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] shearing

> In a message dated 10/7/07 3:26:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> Radched@aol.com
> writes:
>
>
>> ), or any scissors really - having a spring in them like the Fiskar helps
>> because you only have to push them, rather than push and them pull them
>> open
>> for the next?cut.
>>
>
> This is a helpful explanation of how to do it. I tried one year with some
> sheep shearers that I use in the garden for trimming and there was just no
> way.
> I had a preggie girl that summer and she stressed SO bad about being
> loaded
> and hauled off to a strange farm and being put in a chute that I did not
> want
> to chance it for her that year. So I did the best I could with regular
> scissors.
>
> I didn't think to do that this year. That year I only had the 2 so it
> wasn't
> so overwhelming; at the beginning of this year I had 7 (only 4 now) so it
> was
> a bit too much for me alone. That year I also had help to hold or lead
> while
> I walked beside and clipped. This year I had/have no help.
>
> But I have a question about this subject. I usually ahve a "poodle" cut
> done
> on mine and every other year or so I will have their necks shaved if they
> have become totally matted. This summer as I was soaking them down 2x day
> and
> making mud pits for them to lay in I got to thinking about the fact that
> they
> can only cool off under their armpits and wondering what the purpose of
> shaving
> them all over is (with the obvious exception of wanting the fleece). I
> wondered if shaving them really helps to cool them, or if simply taking
> off fiber
> around their armpits (which mine don't have much hair there anyway) would
> do
> just as well? It almost seems as if having all that wonderful insulating
> fiber
> would protect them from the heat and sun.
>
> I have one girl that likes to stand in water. She will dirty up all the
> water buckets by going from one to another to stand in. The other don't
> do that
> but I was spraying down their feet and legs anyway as I figured that must
> cool
> them off or Lucy wouldn't be standing the buckets all the time.
>
> <<I create a small pen - maybe 5' by 5', if they are halterbroke I put a
> halter on and have my son hold them.? If not, I just grab a chunk of
> fiber, snip,
> and follow them about in the pen until they cush, which they all have so
> far.?
> Once they cush, its easy - just trim away.? I start at the back by the
> withers and work my way back and down.>>
>
> This is a good description and I know I could do this. I already have the
> small catch pens. I will look at WalMart for these scissors. But before
> I do
> this I want to know if this is going to make the fiber totally useless? I
> had
> one person tell me not to bother collecting all the little pieces the
> woman
> who used to shear for me would leave.....she didn't shear for fiber. But
> another person told me it could still be spun, it was just not as easy to
> work with.
> The man who has sheared for me the past 2 times is a sheep shearer and he
> knows his fleeces! He definitely shears for the fleece. So I either have
> 7 yrs
> of fiber (fingers crossed) or 2 good years and 5 yrs of trash stored
> here :-(.
>
>
> Janice

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] holistic treatments

DE works on the poop pile (especially for flies) but not in the alpaca.

Jess

Jess & Cookie Bowers
Acres of Love Alpaca Ranch
Acres of Love Alpaca Transport
11006 N 92nd East Ave
Owasso, OK 74055-6531
(918) 327-3519
Fax (918) 272-0969
WWW.Acresoflove.com

----- Original Message -----
From: <houckj@aol.com>
To: <AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] holistic treatments

> In a message dated 10/7/07 2:54:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> alpacas@acresoflove.com writes:
>
>
>> Just a quick note in reference to DE for parasite control. It has been
>> studied by many (Dr. Pugh, for one) and proven completely irrelevant and
>> useless for internal parasite control. Feeding DE and counting on
>> parasite
>> control is asking for death. Fecal checks and appropriate anthelmintics
>> are
>> the only proven reliable method.
>>
>
> Thanks for sharing. I know Dr Pugh and greatly admire him. But I know so
> many folks who use DE for parasite control......hmmm. I'm not sure what to
> think.
>
> He used to bring his interns to my friend's llama farm for some hands on
> learning. When I had my first alpaca I had her pasture attached to my
> small barn
> and the chickens were in there. So they got to start going out into the
> new
> pasture and had tons more room to roam around. It was very cute the way
> they
> would follow her around. I only had 3 at that time and the one alpaca.
> But I
> will never forget Dr Pugh being SO upset and telling me get my alpaca AWAY
> from those chickens! He scared me to death, but I didn't really have the
> means
> to create another pasture so I didn't do anything. That was 7 yrs ago and
> they
> have all lived together since. I was up to 20 chickens and 7 alpacas this
> summer all in the same pasture. I am not aware of any problems this has
> caused.
> Maybe someone here has some input on that living arrangement.
>
> Thanks, Janice

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[AlpacaTalk] Fiber use

Hi all,
Elderberry Creek Alpacas has several items of interest to the alpaca
family.
First, I recently spoke with Pendleton and with a few more details to
finalize, it looks like producing alpaca (or perhaps alpaca blend)
blankets is a go. I have worked for many moons to find a use for our
fiber that will pay us and finally this is coming together! My goal
has been to see the ability for all of us to be able to sell our
fiber, or sell and be able to purchase (at cost or nearly) Pendleton
blankets for resale. I will keep you updated!
Secondly, due to the success and almost too rapid growth or our
retail/wholesale alpaca product business, we do not have time to work
both the business and pursue this wonderful opportunity to have a
viable market for fiber. With mixed feelings, Carol and I have
decided to put the product side or Elderberry Creek Alpacas up for
sale so we can devote our non-regular job time to this opportunity to
ensure the success of the American fiber industry. Once the business
has sold, we will let you know what is available to you as far as
dollars (and/or blankets) for your fiber. The product business has
grown so rapidly over the last four years that it is now taking most
of our spare time. Please let us know if you know anyone interested
in purchasing a growing income-producing alpaca product
business-payback of the initial investment should be 2 to 3 years.
Third, we just had two alpaca cria. Of most note is the baby girl.
Wonderful conformation and fiber. We are sooooo pleased that the best
of the two was the female!!
Finally, check out our RETAIL website and email us if you are
interested in purchasing alpaca products at wholesale prices for your
farm or store.
Peter

Peter & Carol Lundberg
Elderberry Creek Alpacas
10868 Siegmund Rd SE
Stayton, OR 97383

503-769-9466
ElderberryCreekAlpacas.com
ElderberryCreekAlpacas@yahoo.com

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] trimming incisors and fighting teeth

By the way, I'll try to have a video filmed next time we trim teeth!
Heidi, if it's at your place, I'll bring my camera with 1GB flash card!

Heather

On Oct 10, 2007, at 8:13 PM, Heather Zeleny wrote:

> We used dog nail trimmers to cut fighting teeth one year. And this way
> and it did indeed crack the tooth, although we didn't know it at the
> time. Later, we found a big mass of bone and gum tissue growing
> together... very unsightly, and I do imagine it must have been
> extremely painful for the boy. I will state outright that trimming
> fighting teeth with dog nail trimmers is a very bad bad idea.
>
> To trim incisors, you do not wrap the wire around the teeth but just
> place it on the inside of the teeth, then pull toward you with a
> sawing
> motion. It's really not as hard as some are making it sound. I was
> terrified to do it the first time, but now it's my preferred method of
> tooth trimming, and I've used a Highcroft/Toothamatic type contraption
> before. The wire is quiet, very fast, and you can stop if you see a
> problem, like the cutting line not right. Simply realign your angle of
> action. No problem. With the Toothamatic deals, you can't see
> anything. You turn the thing on, push, and it's done. If there was an
> improper alignment (like cutting too much) too bad, it's already done
> and the major damage is done. And they cost over $100! The OB wire
> from Valleyvet is only $11.49 for 11 yards! And make no mistake, using
> the toothamatic doesn't require any less human help than the wire
> does. I know, we've used both.
> http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07aab-7b6a-11d5-a192
> -00b0d0204ae5
>
> Using the dremel to trim fighting teeth is also not a big deal, but it
> does require that the animal be restrained by either humans or a
> chute, and even when we do use the chute, we still need the same
> number
> of humans. The chute only prevents them from running away. With the
> most difficult males, we do resort to drugs prescribed by our vet.
> Some of the others we can get by with nothing or maybe some Rescue
> Remedy or Sedalia (homeopathic remedies) to make them more agreeable.
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Zeleny
> West Wind Alpacas
> Eugene, OR
>
> Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
> Home of Avatar's West Wind Scirocco, El Bello's Padré, Pluro grandson
> Sienna Illusion, and true black full Bolivian Cosby of Chelsea Farms!
> http://www.westwindalpacas.com/
> http://www.alpacanation.com/westwind.asp
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] trimming incisors and fighting teeth

We used dog nail trimmers to cut fighting teeth one year. And this way
and it did indeed crack the tooth, although we didn't know it at the
time. Later, we found a big mass of bone and gum tissue growing
together... very unsightly, and I do imagine it must have been
extremely painful for the boy. I will state outright that trimming
fighting teeth with dog nail trimmers is a very bad bad idea.

To trim incisors, you do not wrap the wire around the teeth but just
place it on the inside of the teeth, then pull toward you with a sawing
motion. It's really not as hard as some are making it sound. I was
terrified to do it the first time, but now it's my preferred method of
tooth trimming, and I've used a Highcroft/Toothamatic type contraption
before. The wire is quiet, very fast, and you can stop if you see a
problem, like the cutting line not right. Simply realign your angle of
action. No problem. With the Toothamatic deals, you can't see
anything. You turn the thing on, push, and it's done. If there was an
improper alignment (like cutting too much) too bad, it's already done
and the major damage is done. And they cost over $100! The OB wire
from Valleyvet is only $11.49 for 11 yards! And make no mistake, using
the toothamatic doesn't require any less human help than the wire
does. I know, we've used both.
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07aab-7b6a-11d5-a192
-00b0d0204ae5

Using the dremel to trim fighting teeth is also not a big deal, but it
does require that the animal be restrained by either humans or a
chute, and even when we do use the chute, we still need the same number
of humans. The chute only prevents them from running away. With the
most difficult males, we do resort to drugs prescribed by our vet.
Some of the others we can get by with nothing or maybe some Rescue
Remedy or Sedalia (homeopathic remedies) to make them more agreeable.

Heather

Heather Zeleny
West Wind Alpacas
Eugene, OR

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
Home of Avatar's West Wind Scirocco, El Bello's Padré, Pluro grandson
Sienna Illusion, and true black full Bolivian Cosby of Chelsea Farms!
http://www.westwindalpacas.com/
http://www.alpacanation.com/westwind.asp
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] trimming incisors and fighting teeth

No, we trimmed one boy's fighting teeth this way and it did crack the
tooth, although we didn't know it at the time. Later we found a big
mass of bone and gum tissue growing together... very unsightly and I do
imagine it must have been very painful for the boy. I will state
outright that trimming fighting teeth with dog nail trimmers is a very
bad bad idea.

To trim incisors, you do not wrap the wire around the teeth but just
place it on the inside of the teeth, then pull toward you with a sawing
motion. It's really not as hard as some are making it sound. I was
terrified to do it the first time, but now it's my preferred method of
tooth trimming, and I've used a Highcroft/Toothamatic type contraption
before. The wire is quiet, very fast, and you can stop if you see a
problem, like the cutting line not right. Simply realign your angle of
action. No problem. With the Toothamatic deals, you can't see anything.
You turn the thing on, push, and it's done. If there was an improper
alignment (like cutting too much) too bad, it's already done and the
major damage is done. And they cost over $100! The OB wire from
Valleyvet is only $11.49 for 11 yards! And make no mistake, using the
toothamatic doesn't require any less human help than the wire does. I
know, we've used both.
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07aab-7b6a-11d5-a192
-00b0d0204ae5

The dremel to trim fighting teeth is also not a big deal, but it does
require that the animal be restrained by either humans or a chute, and
even when we do use the chute, we still need the same amount of humans.
The chute only prevents them from running away. With the most difficult
males, we do resort to drugs prescribed by our vet. Some of the others
we can by with nothing or maybe some Rescue Remedy or Sedalia
(homeopathic remedies) to make them more agreeable.

Heather

Heather Zeleny
West Wind Alpacas
Eugene, OR

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
Home of Avatar's West Wind Scirocco, El Bello's Padré, Pluro grandson
Sienna Illusion, and true black full Bolivian Cosby of Chelsea Farms!
http://www.westwindalpacas.com/
http://www.alpacanation.com/westwind.asp
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[AlpacaTalk] fighting teeth

hi all - i just received a very simple and effective solution for dealing with fighting teeth - the source is a woman who has had a large number of alpacas for over 10 years (her animals are show-stoppers) - she said a large dog toenail clipper works really well to take the tip off without running the risk of cracking the tooth

this sounds better to me than some of the alternatives.
just thought i'd pass it along.

we got our girls' toennails done on the weekend, none of them would stand for it so we were down in the mud but we got it done - we had a unexpected source of help - our 16 year old grandson made a "thanksgiving visit" (probably thought grandma would be cooking) and he brought his 15 year old cousin - they agreed to help, much to my surprise (grandson has never been willing to get too close to the alpacas before) and before they left for home in a neighboring town, all the girls were done.

the ongoing conversations have been a great source of information for me - and it is really reassuring to know i am not the only one facing issues that bother me

the deaths of the adults and crias are heart-wrenching to read about - i wish i could reach out with a hug - i will never forget the story about Charlie Brown - i cant imagine anyone treating an animal or it's owners that way - it's beyond disgusting -

In unity
Wendy
DreamWeaver Alpacas
Port Alberni, BC

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Fw: trimming feet etc, trimming teeth

Hey Laurel,

I wanted to get his fighting teeth done this year at shearing time but our shearer does it while they are standing, so didn't get a chance. His teeth must have been done before (the tip anyway - he is 4 now), because when I looked earlier this summer, the one I saw looked like a spade. I basically was looking quickly before I put him back in with the other boys to make sure there wasn't anything there, and when I saw one that might hurt other animals, I didn't look anymore.

I don't have a dremel yet, or the OB wire, so maybe having the vet give me a hand would be a good idea.

Heidi Christensen
WingNut Farm Alpacas
Graham WA
(253) 846-2168 or (253) 592-0200
www.wingnut-alpacas.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Shouvlins <bluebirdhills@voyager.net>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 6:16 am
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Fw: trimming feet etc, trimming teeth

Hi Heidi,

I dunno about you and your son doing them. We do them annually at shearing. You only have to remove the tips of the canines once. Alpacas can be pretty strong when you are working around their face. At shearing we have the advantage of almost total restraint. You only have to do each canine once. The objective is just to take off the sharp, razor-like point. Once you have done that it is good for life.

The catch is that you need to check at least every year for 3 to 5 years. We check well at age one, but usually they are just erupting and trimming is not possible. At age two, you usually have something to hook the wire around and it takes just a second, sawing back and forth. We use a rope dog toy to prop the mouth open and then attach the wire to a couple of sticks or dowels, just by wrapping it around. They do have holders and I bought a set at the AOBA show last year.

The problem is that a new sets of canines will erupt for the next couple of year. I have heard of one case of a male with 4 sets, top and bottom, so you need to check thoroughly for the first 6 years of life, if not 7.

I have never had any luck with the OB wire on incisors because there was nothing to get the wire hooked around. I have tried the dremel, but couldn't get the right angle, but that is a user problem, not the dremel's and lotsa folks have great success using that.

The toothamatic device is pretty cool in my book. I would be concerned about using anything that just doesn't cut cleanly without alot of pulling pressure, out of fear of cracking the tooth I am cutting. I also would never use hog nippers that chip off the tips. that can definitely cause cracking of the tooth.

As for outright removal of the canines, that seems over the top and pretty unnecessary especially when you think about risks of anesthesia, infection, and the expense over 3 or 4 years.

Laurel

Tim & Laurel Shouvlin
Bluebird Hills Farm
3617 Derr Rd.
Springfield, Ohio 45503
bluebirdhills@voyager.net
www.bluebirdhills.com
937-206-3936

----- Original Message -----
From: Radched@aol.com
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Fw: trimming feet etc, trimming teeth

I was just going to ask about fighting teeth, knowing that the toothomatic won't work on them.

OB wire has handles right? How do you keep the mouth open, or do you even need to (with fighting teeth). Lastly, for the dremel, what tool do you use, and is it the same for fighting teeth and for incisors.

I have a boy who needs his fighting teeth trimmed, and a couple youngster who should soon. I'm hoping I can hold them and my 11 year old can do the wire - not something I would try with a toothomatic :)

Heidi

Heidi Christensen
WingNut Farm Alpacas
Graham WA
(253) 846-2168 or (253) 592-0200
www.wingnut-alpacas.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 8:18 pm
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Fw: trimming feet etc, trimming teeth

I just have to put in my 2¢ here regarding the toothamatic. I think
they're dangerous and very scary. I have extremely good results with a
new OB wire to trim the incisors and sometimes long fighting teeth, and
we also use a dremel tool for fighting teeth. By the way, someone
recommended removing fighting teeth... I suppose you can do that and it
will preclude ever having to trim them again, but I've never heard of
that actually being done. All alpaca breeders who speak of fighting
teeth talk about trimming them as needed.

Back to the OB wire. It takes 30 seconds or so with the wire if it's
less than 10 years old, ;> and it's noise-free. I've heard of people
trimming way too close with the toothamatic and having serious bleeding
from either cutting gums or cutting the teeth too short. I don't know,
it's just not worth the risk. The wire is great, low-tech, quiet, and I
can see exactly what's going on and can stop before some horrible
accident happens. Also, the wire is about $10 and the toothamatic deal
is over $100. And a dremel runs about $40-60.

Heather

Heather Zeleny
West Wind Alpacas
Eugene, OR

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
Home of Avatar's West Wind Scirocco, El Bello's Padré, Pluro grandson
Sienna Illusion, and true black full Bolivian Cosby of Chelsea Farms!
http://www.westwindalpacas..com/
http://www.alpacanation.com/westwind.asp
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join

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[AlpacaTalk] Revisiting the Alpaca Named Cocoa!

While we were trimming his hooves, Cocoa placed his head on my shoulder
and was enjoying my gentle words into his ears and was enjoying my
stroking his neck and his head and his ears. I gave him a kiss on his
muzzle and he just stood there and looked at me. He enjoys it also when
you take hay in your hand and let him eat it out of it.

I just adore him, and hears hoping that the people who own him will
never sell him or place him anywhere else but where he is at. I just
don't know what I would ever do without my Cocoa to go and visit and to
talk to and to feed.

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alpacas

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Wednesday, October 10, 2007

Re: [AlpacaTalk] shearing

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] holistic treatments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

[AlpacaTalk] Fiber use

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] trimming incisors and fighting teeth

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] trimming incisors and fighting teeth

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] trimming incisors and fighting teeth

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

[AlpacaTalk] fighting teeth

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Fw: trimming feet etc, trimming teeth

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

[AlpacaTalk] Revisiting the Alpaca Named Cocoa!

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