alpacas: 11/28/05

RE: [Alpacasite] Oops - bred to llama

Thanks for the enlightened responses to Charlotte's situation. I personally
learned something new.

Anona and Albert Tase
HC 65 Box 6012
Romney, WV 26757
304-822-6065
http://www.alpacasundertherainbow.com

<snip>

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[Alpacasite] Oops - bred to llama

The only requirement is if the sire has over 10 offspring, he must be blood typed. Believe me, all the ethical breeders have been asking for DNA testing, but ILR is afraid that some small breeders couldn't afford it. I just submitted and article to a llama magazine about exactly what you are saying. Anyone who thinks these "suri llamas" magically appeared and that they are not huarizos needs to take a basic genetics course.

Debi Garvin
Pacific Rim Consulting, Inc.
Cabernet Creek Farms
Home of 2005 MW male and HW female Western Regional Grand Champions

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Wilson
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 11/28/2005 7:14:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Oops - bred to llama

Camille,

While I don't raise llamas I fully agree with you but as you and I know
MANY/MOST are not registering them as mixes. Is there any push in the
llama industry to require your registrations to be blood tested like
alpacas? Sure would cut out the shenanigans pretty quick.

Tim Wilson
Sterling Forrest Alpacas
Chagrin Falls, OH

Pleasant View Farm wrote:

>Please, if you are going to register your animal, register it as a mix, not a llama. I've raised llamas since 1991. I would NOT register a huarizo as a llama, but as a mix.
>
> PLEASANT VIEW FARM SURI ALPACAS ~ CAMILLE DESANDO, OWNER
> Gilbert, PA ~ PHONE: 610-681-3759
> SURI ALPACAS~ALPACA CLOTHING AND ACCESSORIES~FIBER~YARN
> www.pleasantviewfarmalpacas.com desando@ptd.net
>
> If opportunity doesn't knock, build a new door.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim Wilson
> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 8:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Oops - bred to llama
>
>
> Anona,
>
> Let me say first that I do not own llamas but I do own suri alpacas but
> DO NOT breed any of my suri alpacas to llamas.
>
> That having been said I do not know the intricate details of the ILR and
> how it relates to the suri llama business but if recent activities are
> any indication then registering your huarizo as a llama would not be the
> first time this has happened and is likely to be rather easy. As I
> understand it the ILR does not require blood testing and there is no
> requirement to verify what someone put on the registration. I know my
> comments will offend some/many llama breeders but the practice of
> breeding suri alpacas to llamas and then registering the huarizo
> offspring as "pure" suri llamas is rather rampant these days. Just look
> in many of the trade magazines. If you think these offspring are from
> suri llamas and not huarizo crosses I think one is being a bit naive.
> Also, one only has to look at the recent public spectacle of the well
> know brouhaha of a well known breeder that was caught trying to register
> a huarizo as a llama. It's happening and no one seems to be doing
> anything about it in the llama industry (from my perspective - I confess
> I am not active in llamas and changes may be underway but are not
> obvious to the outside world).
>
> Unfortunately you are caught in the middle. You bought an alpaca and
> expected an alpaca offspring and got a huarizo. Since the male of choice
> has been sold I would expect at least that the selling farm pay to send
> you female to this male, pay for the outside breeding (if applicable)
> and pay for the return trip on the female. I would also ask for
> compensation on the lost year of production.
>
> Sound to me that you need a good lawyer. Unfortunately this is likely to
> be the course of action should you expect to be compensated for your loss.
>
> Sorry you have been taken advantage of. I hope it works out.
>
> Tim Wilson
> Sterling Forrest Alpacas
> Chagrin Falls, OH
>
>
>
> Anona Tase wrote:
>
> >Hello, my questions are: Can the half alpaca, half llama cria be registered
> >in the Llama registry? And can it be marketed to sell in the Llama industry
> >to recoup on your one year production *loss*?
> >
> >I don't own a llama nor have I dealt with the llama registry. However this
> >would be the avenue I'd investigate if it were me in your shoes (and I hope
> >you are a size 8 ~smiling~).
> >
> >Anona Tase
> >HC 65 Box 6012
> >Romney, WV 26757
> >304-822-6065
> >http://www.alpacasundertherainbow.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
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[Alpacasite] Re: Reading posts

Lea,

I read somewhere that you should begin marketing 2-3 years before
you even have alpacas to sell. Marketing is not my area of
expertise, but for something like $9.95/year and $10-12 a month, you
can have your own website if you're willing to do it yourself. Some
companies have easy to use web publishing software for free or a
small fee. I do my own website, it's simple and I am able to
customize it on my time. I like the "homey" look to my site, but
others may prefer a more polished look and it's easy to do on some
of the software. I also have designed my own business cards, logo
and stationary using Microsoft Publisher, I attend as many shows as
I can and try to introduce myself to other breeders, I've joined
Calpaca, and AOBA and have my site linked on several different sites
for livestock, farming, fiber and fiber arts.

I spend perhaps 2 hours per week, taking and editing pictures,
updating my website and uploading the updates (if I had DSL or
Satellite, it would be less time ~ good old dial up!!) When the
time gets closer to having animals for sale, I think that I'll spend
much more time with marketing

As far as caring for my alpacas, I have 12 right now in 3 seperate
large pens. It takes less than 1/2 hour per pen to rake old hay,
scoop poop and dump it in the compost pile, change out food (give
the uneaten stuff to the sheep and put new feed in), clean the
automatic waterer and wash the mineral bowl. I give the girls
pellets everyday and I stay in with them while they are eating them
because I want the cria to be use to my presence so the girls pen
takes a little longer. It takes my husband and I 3 hours once per
month to weigh everyone, check teeth and trim if needed, trim
toenails, pull blood, give shots etc. We do have a chute which
takes more time but saves a ton of effort, especially for the
alpacas that immediately cush when you touch their feet. I have
several of those.

By far the majority of my alpaca care time is spent taking pictures,
enjoying their antics, talking with them, moving them out for a run
then watching how overjoyed they are to be running, watching them
explore each other and the field. Nothing else gets done when the
guys are out playing. Tonight my girl Shawnee was leading the two
cria around their pen, Full Pronk!!!! I've never seen her pronk
before. Dinner was late getting on the table... It was worth it.

Enjoy your alpacas....

Janice Mortimer
Sandy Acres Alpacas
Escalon CA
www.sandyacresalpacas.com
www.camelidemergencynetwork.com
209-505-2959
--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Sakelik" <rsakelik@v...>
wrote:
>
> Lea,
>
>
>
> I think the 50 hour comment was a tongue in cheek comment. We have
around 40
> alpacas (been in the business for 12 years) and it takes us ~1.5
hours of
> cleanup/feed care per day and as much time as you want to spend
doing
> marketing/sales promotion. Since you are in it for the long haul I
imagine for now
> your time at marketing /sales would be limited. My only suggestion
is that you get
> your ranch name out there, ASAP, so people know who you are
whether or not you have
> animals to sell so that when you are ready people will know you.
Marketing is an
> interesting activity and one that can be approached in many
different ways
> successfully. If you have any questions you may email me privately
for further
> comments so as to not clog up the site. I am happy to help! ;-)
>
>
>
> Good luck!!
>
>
>
> Rich
>
>
>
> Richard & Marge Sakelik
> Alpaca Forest Ranch
> 19025 SW Hillsboro Hwy
> Newberg, OR. 97132
>
> (H)503-628-1220 (Fax)503-628-CRIA (2742)
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
> Home of Top Quality Sires from our famous Accoyo Sara/Accoyo
Victor line......
> Victor's Valedar, Victor's HemiAccoyo Viking, Sonora's Accoyo
Ferrari, Samara's
> Accoyo Platinum & Samara's Accoyo Samurai
>
> Visit them at www.alpacaforestranch.com
>
>
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<<<<<<<
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> llauletta
> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 8:47 AM
> To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Alpacasite] Reading posts
>
>
>
> I have been reading posts about people getting into the industry.
I
> am ready to mak emy forst purchase, now I am scared to death. I
vist
> farms went to seminars and I will get support form my purchaser. I
am
> financing my starter package and I do not need to make a profit
right
> away. It is long term for me. I read someone's [pst who said 50
hours
> a wk input time yikes! I plan on spending a lot of time with my
new
> investment, but I also work. I am gettin 3 preg and a cria. So
wish
> me luck on my new adventure.
> Lea
> Willaimstown, NJ
>
>
>
>
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> Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of
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RE: [Alpacasite] Oops - bred to llama

Tim,

There are dishonest people in all walks of life and who raise all types of
animals. I raise both llamas and alpacas. We recently had a little male
llama born on our farm from a female we purchased in April as a maiden. It
would have been very easy to just "name" a desirable sire. We have drawn
blood and are insisting on DNA verification of his sire. It is easier to
cheat in the llama world, but people who are "of that ilk" will find a way
regardless. Perhaps not on parentage, but in some other way they will
cheat. On the other hand, there are people in this world who will not cheat
even when given a prime opportunity. The ILR also gives an option to be
honest and register this sort of occurrence as a "Crossbreed". The llama
world has no respect for people who crossbreed and claim that the result is
a suri llama, the exception is those that are just in it for the money. I
believe that any time you are dealing with lives and are just in it for the
money, you need to take a good hard look at your values. I am proud of my
ethics.

Gayle Dumas

Alpacas, Argentines & Minis.Oh My!

www.thefuzzyfarm.com <http://www.thefuzzyfarm.com/>

Gloucester, VA

_____

From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Tim Wilson
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 8:56 PM
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Oops - bred to llama

Anona,

Let me say first that I do not own llamas but I do own suri alpacas but
DO NOT breed any of my suri alpacas to llamas.

That having been said I do not know the intricate details of the ILR and
how it relates to the suri llama business but if recent activities are
any indication then registering your huarizo as a llama would not be the
first time this has happened and is likely to be rather easy. As I
understand it the ILR does not require blood testing and there is no
requirement to verify what someone put on the registration. I know my
comments will offend some/many llama breeders but the practice of
breeding suri alpacas to llamas and then registering the huarizo
offspring as "pure" suri llamas is rather rampant these days. Just look
in many of the trade magazines. If you think these offspring are from
suri llamas and not huarizo crosses I think one is being a bit naive.
Also, one only has to look at the recent public spectacle of the well
know brouhaha of a well known breeder that was caught trying to register
a huarizo as a llama. It's happening and no one seems to be doing
anything about it in the llama industry (from my perspective - I confess
I am not active in llamas and changes may be underway but are not
obvious to the outside world).

Unfortunately you are caught in the middle. You bought an alpaca and
expected an alpaca offspring and got a huarizo. Since the male of choice
has been sold I would expect at least that the selling farm pay to send
you female to this male, pay for the outside breeding (if applicable)
and pay for the return trip on the female. I would also ask for
compensation on the lost year of production.

Sound to me that you need a good lawyer. Unfortunately this is likely to
be the course of action should you expect to be compensated for your loss.

Sorry you have been taken advantage of. I hope it works out.

Tim Wilson
Sterling Forrest Alpacas
Chagrin Falls, OH

Anona Tase wrote:

>Hello, my questions are: Can the half alpaca, half llama cria be
registered
>in the Llama registry? And can it be marketed to sell in the Llama
industry
>to recoup on your one year production *loss*?
>
>I don't own a llama nor have I dealt with the llama registry. However this
>would be the avenue I'd investigate if it were me in your shoes (and I hope
>you are a size 8 ~smiling~).
>
>Anona Tase
>HC 65 Box 6012
>Romney, WV 26757
>304-822-6065
>http://www.alpacasundertherainbow.com
>
>
>
>
>
>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the
person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no
way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
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>
>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas alpacas@alpacaweb.com
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Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Question Regarding Eataholic Cria- - 'stripping' teats

Paul,

I appreciate your clarification on my misunderstanding of your original
post. If you give this first milk back to the cria why would you not
leave it in the dam in the first place and have the cria nurse it out
naturally (your post said you stripped several cc's several times which
is quite a bit in our experience)?

Congratulations on such high IgG's. We too have been lucky on the few
that we have had tested.

Tim Wilson
Sterling Forrest Alpacas
Chagrin Falls, OH

cpqcolor wrote:

>Just to clarify, the milk/colostrum we initially pull from the dam
>is all given to the cria, we do save a few drops and rub it back on
>the teats as a lure for nursing. This was recommended by Toni
>Cotton in one of her neonatal classes we attended.
>
>I agree, the first milk is gold. We only milk the dam once unless
>otherwise required, I tend to beleive that making sure they get that
>first colostrum is what helps get us our consistent 2000+ IgGs.
>
>Paul Kimball
>Bluff View Farms LLC
>Birchwood, TN
>
>--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "andesdandies" <sue@a...> wrote:
>
>
>>Tim,
>>
>>According to Dr. LaRue Johnson's neonatal seminar, you are
>>
>>
>correct.
>
>
>>The VERY FIRST milk is the strongest, each subsequent feeding
>>decreases rapidly. He advises against expressing out teats to
>>
>>
>start
>
>
>>them up unless you save it and feed it to that cria (a few drops
>>
>>
>is
>
>
>>ok).
>>
>>Best regards,
>>
>>Sue Zelazny
>>Andes Dandies, LLC
>>http://www.andesdandies.com
>>Middleport, NY
>>
>>
>>--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, Tim Wilson <tpwilson2@a...>
>>
>>
>wrote:
>
>
>>>Rachelle,
>>>
>>>I do not have any concrete evidence but I suspect that the most
>>>colostrum rich milk is likely to be the very first few ounces
>>>
>>>
>that
>
>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>dam produces. This I would guess is best to get inside the cria
>>>
>>>
>>right
>>
>>
>>>away (stomach lining closing in 24 hours and all). Would seem to
>>>
>>>
>me
>
>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>most logical thing would be to have the cria nurse naturally and
>>>
>>>
>>get as
>>
>>
>>>much of this rich milk as soon as possible.
>>>
>>>Always learning. I will ask my vet and see what he thinks. Maybe
>>>
>>>
>we
>
>
>>>should be doing things differently. We've only has to supplement
>>>
>>>
>>one
>>
>>
>>>cria and it was nearly 3 months old. And this only lasted for 2
>>>
>>>
>>weeks.
>>
>>
>>>As always, thanks for your input.
>>>
>>>Tim Wilson
>>>Sterling Forrest Alpacas
>>>Chagrin Falls, OH
>>>
>>>Wyatt Black wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi Tim,
>>>>I can think of a reason. We try and routinely milk a few
>>>>
>>>>
>ounces
>
>
>>at least out of mom with the birth of every new cria. The reason
>>
>>
>is,
>
>
>>in case there is a need for supplementation, we have the best
>>
>>
>thing
>
>
>>right on hand. If it is a first time mom, we might even go for
>>
>>
>more,
>
>
>>just in case.
>>
>>
>>>>Doesn't take anything away from the cria, and it is readily
>>>>
>>>>
>>available for the little one should the need arise.
>>
>>
>>>>Ciao~
>>>>Rachelle
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Wyatt & Rachelle Black
>>>>Black Magic Alpaca Ranch
>>>>Honesty, Integrity, Quality
>>>>6500 Digier Road
>>>>P.O. Box 457
>>>>Lebec, CA
>>>>93243
>>>>http://www.blackmagicalpacaranch.com
>>>>wyattblack@e...
>>>>661-248-6568
>>>>
>>>>Message: 16
>>>>Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:31:55 -0500
>>>>From: Tim Wilson <tpwilson2@a...>
>>>>Subject: Re: Re: Question Regarding Eataholic Cria
>>>>
>>>>Paul,
>>>>
>>>>Curious by one of your comments "Mom has plenty of milk, we
>>>>
>>>>
>>stripped
>>
>>
>>>>several CCs early".
>>>>
>>>>Why would you strip mom of any milk (other than a brief check
>>>>
>>>>
>to
>
>
>>see
>>
>>
>>>>that the teats are not clogged/blocked and were working)?
>>>>
>>>>Tim Wilson
>>>>Sterling Forrest Alpacas
>>>>Chagrin Falls, OH
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>cpqcolor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hi Chris:
>>>>>
>>>>>He was 14.9 at birth, born at noon on Wednesday - when I
>>>>>
>>>>>
>weighed
>
>
>>him
>>
>>
>>>>>a little while ago he was already 16.3. Running around, full
>>>>>
>>>>>
>of
>
>
>>>>>piss and vinegar (can I say that on here?). Mom has plenty of
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>milk,
>>
>>
>>>>>we stripped several CCs early and since, and I've watched him
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>nurse
>>
>>
>>>>>and he seems to have it down pat - it's hard to tell how much
>>>>>
>>>>>
>he
>
>
>>>>>actually gets each feeding - he's grey so his "milk mouth" is
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>harder
>>
>>
>>>>>to see :)
>>>>>
>>>>>Paul
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility
>>>>
>>>>
>of
>
>
>>the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
>>message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or
>>
>>
>Yahoo.
>
>
>>>>
>>>>List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
>>>>
>>>>
>alpacas@a...
>
>
>>>>http://aaalpacas.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit
>>>>
>>>>
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
>>
>>
>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility of the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or Yahoo.
>
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[Alpacasite] Re: Question Regarding Eataholic Cria- - 'stripping' teats

Just to clarify, the milk/colostrum we initially pull from the dam
is all given to the cria, we do save a few drops and rub it back on
the teats as a lure for nursing. This was recommended by Toni
Cotton in one of her neonatal classes we attended.

I agree, the first milk is gold. We only milk the dam once unless
otherwise required, I tend to beleive that making sure they get that
first colostrum is what helps get us our consistent 2000+ IgGs.

Paul Kimball
Bluff View Farms LLC
Birchwood, TN

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, "andesdandies" <sue@a...> wrote:
>
> Tim,
>
> According to Dr. LaRue Johnson's neonatal seminar, you are
correct.
> The VERY FIRST milk is the strongest, each subsequent feeding
> decreases rapidly. He advises against expressing out teats to
start
> them up unless you save it and feed it to that cria (a few drops
is
> ok).
>
> Best regards,
>
> Sue Zelazny
> Andes Dandies, LLC
> http://www.andesdandies.com
> Middleport, NY
>
>
> --- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com, Tim Wilson <tpwilson2@a...>
wrote:
> >
> > Rachelle,
> >
> > I do not have any concrete evidence but I suspect that the most
> > colostrum rich milk is likely to be the very first few ounces
that
> the
> > dam produces. This I would guess is best to get inside the cria
> right
> > away (stomach lining closing in 24 hours and all). Would seem to
me
> the
> > most logical thing would be to have the cria nurse naturally and
> get as
> > much of this rich milk as soon as possible.
> >
> > Always learning. I will ask my vet and see what he thinks. Maybe
we
> > should be doing things differently. We've only has to supplement
> one
> > cria and it was nearly 3 months old. And this only lasted for 2
> weeks.
> >
> > As always, thanks for your input.
> >
> > Tim Wilson
> > Sterling Forrest Alpacas
> > Chagrin Falls, OH
> >
> > Wyatt Black wrote:
> >
> > >Hi Tim,
> > >I can think of a reason. We try and routinely milk a few
ounces
> at least out of mom with the birth of every new cria. The reason
is,
> in case there is a need for supplementation, we have the best
thing
> right on hand. If it is a first time mom, we might even go for
more,
> just in case.
> > >Doesn't take anything away from the cria, and it is readily
> available for the little one should the need arise.
> > >Ciao~
> > >Rachelle
> > >
> > >
> > >Wyatt & Rachelle Black
> > >Black Magic Alpaca Ranch
> > >Honesty, Integrity, Quality
> > >6500 Digier Road
> > >P.O. Box 457
> > >Lebec, CA
> > >93243
> > >http://www.blackmagicalpacaranch.com
> > >wyattblack@e...
> > >661-248-6568
> > >
> > >Message: 16
> > >Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:31:55 -0500
> > >From: Tim Wilson <tpwilson2@a...>
> > >Subject: Re: Re: Question Regarding Eataholic Cria
> > >
> > >Paul,
> > >
> > >Curious by one of your comments "Mom has plenty of milk, we
> stripped
> > >several CCs early".
> > >
> > >Why would you strip mom of any milk (other than a brief check
to
> see
> > >that the teats are not clogged/blocked and were working)?
> > >
> > >Tim Wilson
> > >Sterling Forrest Alpacas
> > >Chagrin Falls, OH
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >cpqcolor wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>Hi Chris:
> > >>
> > >>He was 14.9 at birth, born at noon on Wednesday - when I
weighed
> him
> > >>a little while ago he was already 16.3. Running around, full
of
> > >>piss and vinegar (can I say that on here?). Mom has plenty of
> milk,
> > >>we stripped several CCs early and since, and I've watched him
> nurse
> > >>and he seems to have it down pat - it's hard to tell how much
he
> > >>actually gets each feeding - he's grey so his "milk mouth" is
> harder
> > >>to see :)
> > >>
> > >>Paul
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Opinions and postings on this list are the sole responsibility
of
> the person posting the message. The accuracy and content of each
> message in no way reflect the opinions of the administrator or
Yahoo.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >List administrator - Rick Horn - All American Alpacas
alpacas@a...
> > >http://aaalpacas.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >TO CHANGE OPTIONS visit
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alpacasite/join
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

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Re: [Alpacasite] Parasite control

Jan,

The excerpt (link provided below) is from an earlier post in response to
a Gary Kaufman post.

The practice of a low level of D.E (Diatomaceous Earth) in the feed has
been shown to be quite ineffective. It has also been postulated that the
D.E. is a non-specific absorbent of trace minerals and we may be doing
ourselves a disservice by sending them out to the gutter.

Such products as Walnut Hulls, which are very high in tannins, work
systemically. Also, walnut leaves are high tannin and are absorbed very
fast. Elecampane Root and Wormwood Root both are excellent wormers.
There are a lot of combinations being introduced that all have worming
properties. Some combine then with D.E. Most give the wormers orally for
three days and then re-worm in three weeks. There will be more products
introduced in the future. Find yourself one that works for you and watch
your young stock and timing.

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:gB-kJHJAUGIJ:www.organicvalley.coop/pdf/pools/intestinal_parasites.pdf+lime+%26+parasite+control&hl=en&client=firefox-a

I have seen prior references to tannins as a parasite control. Black
walnut shavings are a problem with bedding for horses and the tannins in
oak leaves, bark, and acorns can be a problem when ingested apparently
in large quantities. From Drs. Walter & Knight, "The principal toxin
[of oak] is gallotannin, a polyhydroxphenolic combination of tannic and
gallic acid. The tannins found in the leaves, bark, and acorns of oaks
produce poisoning through their effect on the intestinal tract and
kidneys. Gallotannins are hydrolyzed in the rumen to smaller molecular
weight compounds including gallic acid, pyrogallol, and resorcinol.
These compounds react with cell proteins to denature them, with
resulting cell death. Most severe lesions occur in the kidneys, liver,
and digestive tract. In small quantities the rumen microflora detoxify
the tannins, and only when large amounts of tannic acid are eaten and
bypass the rumen does poisoning occur. Goats and wild ruminants are
apparently better able to detoxify tannic acid than other livestock
because they have a tannin-binding protein in their saliva that
neutralizes tannic acid. Goats have been used effectively to browse on
oaks thereby reducing the spread of the oak and increasing the grazing
capacity of the range. Oaks at any stage of growth are poisonous, but
they are particularly toxic when the leaf and flower buds are just
opening in the spring. Consumption of oak buds can be markedly increased
in a heavy, late spring snowstorm, when cattle browse the oak that
protrudes above the snow. As the leaves mature they become less toxic.
Ripe acorns are less toxic than when green. Cattle sheep, horses, and
pigs are susceptible to oak poisoning."

I think the interesting part is the reference to goats and "wild
ruminants" being more tolerant to tannins. Is it possible to classify
alpacas as wild ruminants? For those out there that have oaks trees
accessible to alpacas, it may be interesting to note the relationship of
oak consumption to parasite infestation.

David Colby
Weminuche Huacaya Alpacas
Platteville CO 80651
970.405.4597
dcolby@direcway.com <mailto:dcolby@direcway.com>

Jan Sherrill wrote:

> Many, many thanks for posting such an interesting and useful article.
> I will enjoy reading it through and see what can be applied!!
>
> Cheers,
> Jan Sherrill
> Celestial Alpacas
> Central Coast of Calfornia
> Templeton
> 805/238-2628
>
>
> >Here is an interesting article from the Organic Broadcaster, Vol13 #6.
> >
> ><http://www.mosesorganic.org/ob/intparisites.htm>http://www.mosesorganic.org/ob/intparisites.htm
> >
> >David Colby
> >Weminuche Huacaya Alpacas
> >Platteville CO 80651
> >970.405.4597
> >dcolby@direcway.com <mailto:dcolby@direcway.com>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
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> --
> Jan Sherrill
> Celestial Alpacas
> Central Coast of California
> Templeton
> mailto:pacamom@lightspeed.net
>
> 805/238-2628
>
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Re: [Alpacasite] Oops - bred to llama