Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Sunday, October 25, 2009

[AlpacaTalk] Some advice for listings

 

While searching and browsing for comparisons, to gauge what sort of
prices I might set for some alpacas for sale, I have run across many
inconsistencies that will put me right off an animal, or even a
seller. Granted, these inconsistencies may be simple errors, as we
are human and not infallible, but whether they are mistakes or
intentional leaves the seller in question. If the error was done as a
way to draw in potential customers, to find incorrect "facts" leaves
me with a bit of distrust. If it was an oversight or typo, not
checked and corrected, it calls into question the seller's accuracy
in other areas.

For example:
A listing when searching for "full Peruvian" brings up animals with a
Chilean dam. I have seen the same when searching for "full Bolivian",
I see some half Peruvians.

Looking at micron stats, the year the sample was taken is 2 years
prior to the animal's birth. I'd like to know how that sample was taken!

It's not hard to double check facts and entries on AN or websites.
And I'd say it is imperative to do so.

Perhaps you think no one will be interested in a half Peruvian/half
Chilean animal no matter what the micron is or how many blue ribbons.
Well, let me tell ya, saying they are full Peruvian if they're not
won't convince many who ARE only in the market for full P (or whatever).

You can just never go wrong with the truth. Because people will find
out eventually, anyway.

I am not trying to imply that I don't make mistakes. I make plenty.
When I see them, I fix them. Usually I am embarrassed at how long it
took me to notice.

Heather

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
Recent Activity
Visit Your Group
Give Back

Yahoo! for Good

Get inspired

by a good cause.

Y! Toolbar

Get it Free!

easy 1-click access

to your groups.

Yahoo! Groups

Start a group

in 3 easy steps.

Connect with others.

.

__,_._,___

posted by Chaddo at 1:39 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

[AlpacaTalk] Re: Micron Testing clarified and EPD

 

Hello Sue...I think you hit the nail on the head. As a hand spinner / knitter micron is of little value, it is the feel. Because there is emphasis to move toward a commercial market, and still support the cottage industries with fleece confusion abounds when we talk knowingly without defining our specifics.

Let's talk commercial for a moment. If I were to develop a very fine high end garment, say a dress, I would seek micron in the range of anything under 20 micron. If I were to create something to be worn against the skin I would be looking at 20-25 micron. Socks, lets move that a little further out say 20-28 micron. Now we are getting into lined coats, bats, quilts, felting, then we may wish to utilize the greater than 28 micron.

As a hand spinner my wife likes the results from our 28 micron old gal over the 23 micron young gal. Might be age prejudice, but the feel of the old gals fleece is much better. We start getting down into the under 23 micron for hand knitting and it is difficult to get a tight enough stitch that does not look like fishnet. Of course you can spin multiple threads together to make a heavier yarn, but now you need a lot more for the same garment.

I know that everyone can come up with exceptions to what I have posted and I am trying to keep it somewhat general, but the concepts support why we get so intrigued with the micron and sample testing. As another post pointed out it provides us with a measurable characteristic when comparing one fleece to another and one year to the next.

Regarding IWTO sanction, we are not certain we see the assurance having gotten identical results from Yocum's OFDA100 and Watt's OFDA2000 when using the OFDA2000 butt result. Then we have all this other great information over and above the OFDA100 to use in our assessment. And what is more representative of the fleece, a sample measure of 2 to 3 days growth over 365 days, or a measure of 365 days growth? Both methods are recognized by the industry and resulted from differing measuring needs.

Regards, Michael
Greenbriar Farm, Waukesha, WI
262.970.9633

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, LunarStruck@... wrote:
>
> Is anyone else besides me frustrated at all the information provided in
> these micron tests? It is really off-putting to a new breeder and honestly,
> the confusion makes me just want to ignore them completely. Just curious
> as to whether anyone else feels the same way.
>
> As a spinner and knitter, I'm starting to think why bother with testing, I
> go more by the feel of the yarn than anything else nowadays. One of our
> mediocre micron count females produces our very best yarn on the ranch. Can
> someone please explain to me why we need lower microns if the yarn
> produced by higher micron animals is better quality? Isn't that what we are
> raising these animals for, better yarn quality or lower micron counts?
>
> SUSAN OLSON
> Alpaca Loco
> Riverside, CA
>

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
Recent Activity
Visit Your Group
Give Back

Yahoo! for Good

Get inspired

by a good cause.

Y! Toolbar

Get it Free!

easy 1-click access

to your groups.

Yahoo! Groups

Start a group

in 3 easy steps.

Connect with others.

.

__,_._,___

posted by Chaddo at 11:27 AM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Micron Testing clarified and EPD

 

I admit, I am a sucker for low micron. When you put your hand in a bag of fleece that measures below 20µ, oooooo, it's just so luscious. And, if you want lace weight yarn to make a very soft and lightweight scarf, baby blanket, gloves, or sweater, high micron fleeces just won't do.


That being said, I had some bulky yarn made from my old maroon boy's stronger fleece. Last time I had it tested in was 27µ. That yarn is ever so snuggly and cushy. If I could knit, I'd make a sweater out of it.

I think with a good mill, who will dehair the stronger fleeces, you do get a very nice yarn in return. 

There are good uses for every micron range, and so even our old and non-show quality alpacas make good, useful fleece. By the way, that crimp that is so highly rewarded at shows? Processors don't care one fig about crimp. Some hand spinners do, some don't. I can't tell the difference between a yarn made from a champion or one who didn't place, if it's the same micron range.

And yes, obviously the micron often increases as an animal ages, but if it didn't start out below 20µ, you'll never have that to work if, if that's what you want for a particular application.

Heather

On Oct 24, 2009, at 11:03 PM, LunarStruck@aol.com wrote:

Is anyone else besides me frustrated at all the information provided in these micron tests?  It is really off-putting to a new breeder and honestly, the confusion makes me just want to ignore them completely.  Just curious as to whether anyone else feels the same way. 
 
As a spinner and knitter, I'm starting to think why bother with testing, I go more by the feel of the yarn than anything else nowadays.  One of our mediocre micron count females produces our very best yarn on the ranch.  Can someone please explain to me why we need lower microns if the yarn produced by higher micron animals is better quality?  Isn't that what we are raising these animals for, better yarn quality or lower micron counts?
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
Recent Activity
Visit Your Group
Give Back

Yahoo! for Good

Get inspired

by a good cause.

Y! Toolbar

Get it Free!

easy 1-click access

to your groups.

Yahoo! Groups

Start a group

in 3 easy steps.

Connect with others.

.

__,_._,___

posted by Chaddo at 9:54 AM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

[AlpacaTalk] Re: Micron Testing clarified and EPD

 

Lasting fineness and low CV are among the fleece characteristics that I value highly.  For that reason, I have histograms done on most of my herd every year or every other year (until at least age 5 years unless the fleece is clearly “blowing out”). As juveniles, most alpacas are fine (which is why density, more often than not, ends up trumping fineness in the halter ring—but that’s a subject for another, though not entirely unrelated, discussion).  

 

When I have a 5-year-old breeding female with a 20-micron fleece and a CV of 16 (and histograms from every year to show the record over time), I know I am getting a big part of what I’m looking for.  Meanwhile, other of my females (same age, same pasture, same sampling protocol) will display very different results.  I am rarely taken completely by surprise by the histogram results—they tend to confirm what I can feel.  However, the results provide me with additional factual support for my decisions, allow me to maintain data I can look back at,  and sometimes yield valuable information I may have overlooked (such as a very low % of fibers over 30 microns in an older alpaca).  Histogram results sometimes send me back to re-examine a particular fleece with a somewhat different eye.

 

I use the same lab I have used for years and I take the fleece samples at the same time of year each year in order to get results that can be compared over time.  No lab can produce “perfectly accurate” results, and a theoretically “perfectly accurate” lab result from a sample would still not be “perfectly accurate” because we have no way of knowing how perfectly representative the sample is of the entire blanket.  However, I’m not looking for perfection in measurement—I am looking for a reasonably accurate tool, in addition to my hands and my knowledge of a particular alpaca’s close relatives, to help me identify the alpacas that best serve my breeding goals.

 

I’m glad to see EPDs being discussed and used, and I find the various arguments for and against various testing methods very informative.  But breeders need to begin with the fairly simple (and, yes, imperfect) tools available to them.  I don’t know if it’s splitting hairs to argue the pros and cons of various testing techniques (certainly not if you are a scientist), but meanwhile how many breeders do any testing or hands-on fiber assessment of any kind at all?


Sue Watts

Sue Watts

CALIDAD ALPACAS

Hancock, New York

 


 

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
Recent Activity
Visit Your Group
Give Back

Yahoo! for Good

Get inspired

by a good cause.

Y! Toolbar

Get it Free!

easy 1-click access

to your groups.

Yahoo! Groups

Start a group

in 3 easy steps.

Connect with others.

.

__,_._,___

posted by Chaddo at 9:47 AM 0 comments