Honestly Laurel, no matter what I or anyone else in my family says, you are always opposed to it for one reason or another. It was clear by your posts that you were looking for a way to make me spread some sort of rumor and innuendo. No thanks.
No one really cares at what times the workers running the mills go to break and how much they get paid. No one cares about the person to lent the foot mold for the XXXtreme socks. Anyone with a piece of paper and a pencil can find out how to make a pattern. No one cares about minute details like that that are inconsequential.
The issue at hand is that there are so many secrets with AFCNA. Most companies put their financial information, vendors, etc on their websites and are proud of what they are doing. AFCNA has had no competition until just recently, so the secretiveness is not worthy. (As for the things that are secretive, there are many posts on other threads and other groups that discuss it.) AFCNA did not even post when people got how many votes at the BOD election. And, John apparently told Elwin that he got the most votes, but didn't qualify to be on the BOD because he is a competitor. SO WHY WAS HE QUALIFIED TO RUN IN THE FIRST PLACE? Why wasn't he told from the start, when Judith made her little interview calls prior to emailing the questionnaire that he could not be considered because he had a conflict of interest? Instead, John tells him that he had the most votes after the one person couldn't serve, but would not be a candidate to serve on the BOD, after the election. Is this
just poor communication skills or is there some other reason he was not allowed on the BOD? How do we know who actually won since the votes were not made public? It is the lack of transparancy that makes people ask more questions.
John sells products form his website that are not AFCNA related. Isn't this a conflict of interest, since he the President of AFCNA? No way. Why? Because he makes the rules. I seriously doubt you would see the President of Pepsi sell Coke products on his website.
The issue is that people are getting sick of the secrecy involved in these alpaca organizations. If you aren't, fine. Other people are. You can keep your head in the sand, or not. It is your choice. Don't tell others that they are ruining the industry and harming the future because it is the people that are keeping the secrets and mismanaging who are ruining things, not the people who are looking for answers.
It is true that the FTC may find nothing, if they were to look, but then again...they might. They would not know if they didn't look.
I do not know why people think that the alpaca industry is any different than any other. Yes, people come into this business to get away from the rat race of corporate America, but that does not mean that people change when they enter a farming situation. They are the same people and there are still going to be people that take advantage of others or have something to hide.
I don't like it when people are told not to look, or to ignore things that need questions answered.
Stephanie
luebirdhills@voyager.net> wrote:
What would the FTC find wrong with the AFCNA?
Again, please identify exactly what is being done that is illegal or improper.
My impression is that you folks are trying to tear down an organization that is member owned because you don't think it is fair for it to have the advantage of economy of scale or the advantages of the economy of a cooperative. Every seed of distrust you plant hurts many folks, and may do a great deal of damage to the future of the alpaca fiber industry.
Just because Elwin says the FTC would find things wrong doesn't mean that they would! And as for proprietary information, for the AFCNA Board to do anything that would put the AFCNA at a disadvantage or compromise its income is to violate their role as officers of the Board. We have a fiber mill here in Springfield, and I can assure you that I will not tell you or anyone else our connections for getting equipment, tops, yarns, or whose fleeces we process. I guess that makes me a scoundrel and subject to investigation by the FTC???
Is it appropriate to keep mum about manufacturers, sources, and pricing. You bet your sweet bippy it is! To give this info away would potentially cut into the profits that AFCNA hopes to give to its owner/members. I would even assert that if an AFCNA Board member every did give that information away that they could be potentially prosecuted for violating their role as a board director and selling secrets or at least not carrying out their responsibilities as a director which is to protect proprietary information.
We grow organic veggies and we have a very tough time competing against the grocery chains using the sustainable practices we believe strongly in. We keep every variety we grow secret. It may sound silly that we won't divulge a type of lettuce we grow, but after spending close to 20 years to find out how to make things work, we aren't quick to hand this info over to someone who could choose to start a veggie business in our area. How do we know someone is going to use these secrets? We don't have any way of knowing, so we just keep mum.
If the AFCNA can make yarn for less than you or I can, that's tough for our mill, but great for the AFCNA. The smaller mill must find a way to compete, to set themselves apart, just as my husband and I have to find a niche to sell our produce. Believe me I know how tough it is for the little guy.
Enough of my hot air. I guess I just don't understand what is trying to be accomplished with all of this accusing and inuendo.
Laurel
Tim & Laurel Shouvlin
Bluebird Hills Farm
3617 Derr Rd.
Springfield, Ohio 45503
bluebirdhills@voyager.net
www.bluebirdhills.com
937-206-3936
----- Original Message -----
From: Stardust Alpacas
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Fwd: Hey Elwin!
I was referring to the FTC, as Elwin was saying. If this were another type of industry that made more of an impact on the nation, there would be more questions asked AFCNA by more people.
Steph
Shouvlins <bluebirdhills@voyager.net> wrote:
Why would the feds be checking AFCNA out???
Do tell!!!!
Laurel
----- Original Message -----
From: Stardust Alpacas
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Fwd: Hey Elwin!
If this were a cable company or something else a bit
more important to the rest of the world (not alpaca
fiber processing) then some federal agency would be
looking in to what is going on.
Stephanie
--- fortryan <maasrj@netzero.net> wrote:
> I'm all for free discourse! I'm a skeptic too and I
> know there are
> things being hidden, but I also don't think that the
> path to change
> is to cry foul and ask that everyone write to the
> FTC.
>
> Ryan
>
> --- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Heather Zeleny
> <alpacatalk@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > True enough, Ryan, even quoting a beloved American
> humorist
> doesn't
> > make a great leader. But my mission in keeping
> this group open all
> > these years despite limited membership has been to
> offer an avenue
> of
> > true open speech and hopefully no censorship. So
> far, since the
> group
> > has been very small I've been able to remain very
> "hands-off," I
> hope
> > it can stay that way. I strongly believe that we
> need access to
> all
> > points of view, as much information as we can
> accumulate, and as
> great
> > a dissemination of any information as possible. I
> have said many
> times
> > and strongly believe that information is power. We
> need and
> deserve to
> > know what's going on in our alpaca industry and
> especially behind
> the
> > scenes. I want to know what machinations are at
> work, and who is
> > conducting them. I'm not naiive enough to think
> that there isn't
> stuff
> > going on that some people do not want known... I
> think that one
> said
> > cooperative that claims to be working for the
> entire industry
> should
> > really be more transparent in their business. Why
> shouldn't they?
> > What's the big secret(s)?
> >
> > Again, just my inquiring mind...
> >
> > Heather
> >
> >
> > On Oct 15, 2007, at 6:02 AM, fortryan wrote:
> >
> > > Quoting a great leader does not make a leader
> great. Neither does
> > > calling the people that one wishes to lead
> greedy, gullible
> > > dishonest and/or cheaters.
> > >
> > > I am against involving a government agency in
> settling disputes
> > > within the practices of our small industry. If
> our calling is
> to be
> > > the change we wish to see in the world, then
> the answer is not
> to
> > > cry foul to our regulators, but to be an agent
> of change in our
> > > industry, our organizations, and ourselves and
> not to spread
> > > distrust and fear under the pretenses of
> dualism. This is not
> > > an "us vs. them" struggle. There is only us.
> > >
> > > "We have met the enemy and he is us." -- Walt
> Kelly
> > >
> > > Ryan
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________
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Stephanie Zeleny
Stardust Alpacas
31542 Camas Swale Rd.
Creswell, OR 97426
541.895.0964
stardustalpacas@yahoo.com
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