Denise, Heather and others,
Sorry to take a day or two to respond but I wanted to verify some things
with Darby before I answered some of your questions.
Denise, your correct that the Breeders ID is a separate field of data from
the name field although the combined total characters count toward the 35
character maximum allowed for the total name.
The purchase of a breeder identifier includes the use of the breeder
identifier in the following four ways:
* [Breeder ID] Alpaca Name
* Alpaca Name of [Breeder ID]
* [Breeder ID]'s Alpaca Name
* Alpaca Name [Breeder ID]
More information about breeder id's can be found in the ARI Policies and
Procedures area of the web site.
The ARI Board approved the following exceptions to the rule on excluding
symbols in names.
"Names can contain an apostrophe if the apostrophe is followed by a T, N, S
or preceded by a D, S, or O".
The decision to allow these exceptions was based on "common usage" at the
time and the BOD felt that most situations would be covered by approving these
few exceptions on an ongoing basis.
Heather, that is why you can find <mr studly's> cria name. In this case the
apostrophe is followed by an S.
Yes, our system has been programmed to enforce all these naming rules. Not
an easy task for the programmers, but with VERY few exceptions the system has
worked very well since installed.
ARI will never be able to please every breeder when it comes to naming our
animals and the task won't get any easier as our national herd size continues
to grow and we must continue to come up with unique names. Creativity will be
very important.
Now that I have made that as clear as mud,
let me take this opportunity to remind us all that the ARI staff is here for
our benefit. They are our Members advocates. Their job is to find a way to
solve Member issues, within the Policies and Procedures available to them.
If the staff can't find an answer then they talk to Darby, Executive
Director. If that level of management can't fix the issue the BOD will get involved.
I can count on one hand the times over the last several years that a Member
was still mad at ARI because of the decisions that were made on behalf of
the Registry.
From my perspective that's still a pretty good batting average out of 40-50
thousand transactions annually.
Bruce Beatty
La Buena Vida Alpacas
Anthony, NM
In a message dated 11/24/2008 8:35:15 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
D.Mossfritch@comcast.net writes:
Correct Heather. But that apostrophe is in the Breeder ID, not the name of
the alpaca. For example, when I register an alpaca I have the choice of
using NMA's <alpaca name>. However, that Breeder ID is probably a defined
label, not part of the field into which you identify the animal's name.
Correct Bruce?
Best,
Denise
-----Original Message-----
From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Heather Zeleny
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 6:15 PM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
Well, wait a minute. I have seen many many many [<Breeder ID> Famous
Sire's Offspring Name] registered. That apostrophe after the dam or
sire's name is right in there in the animal name. What about that?
Heather
On Nov 24, 2008, at 6:01 PM, bbeatty656@aol.com wrote:
> Denise,
>
> Why did I KNOW you would get me? :-)
>
> Excellent point for me to ask Darby about our system concerning the
> "English" special characters vs "other languages".
>
> I do believe we had to tell the system which character to disallow.
>
> VERRRRYYYYY interesting as Sgt. Schultz used to say.
>
> Bruce
> ARI Board
>
> PS: is their a herd ID in one of the Guns and Roses name?
>
>
> In a message dated 11/24/2008 6:54:59 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
> D.Mossfritch@comcast.net writes:
>
> Evening Bruce,
>
> Yup, so ARI has a rule that excludes "special characters and symbols".
> However, why is that rule in place? Software design typically excludes
> "special characters". For example, a typical listing might be
> invalidList =
> ",<.>?;:'@#~]}[{=+)(*&^%$£!`¬| -_" that I just pulled from an
> electronic
> (Acrobat) source. Different programming languages or database
> development
> systems will have slightly different lists.
>
> In the case of L'Etoille we are dealing with a non-English language,
> French.
> Probably good that Allison didn't try for a German name with an
> umlaut. My
> comment was just that, a comment, describing but another limitation
> all of
> us currently find when dealing with computer systems. Part of that
> limitation is built into the software and part is the programming.
>
> As for the "line in the sand", I can only laugh. A year ago when at a
> west
> coast show I heard that Guns and Roses had just taken first place.
> However,
> that was a Huacaya in the two plus age group. Our Guns and Roses is a
> Suri
> and was in the juvenile class.
>
> Best,
>
> Denise
>
> Denise L. Moss-Fritch
>
> New Moon Alpacas
>
> Santa Clara, CA
>
> (A Walden University doctoral student in Information Systems
> Management)
>
> From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com]
> On
> Behalf Of bbeatty656@aol.com
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 4:18 PM
> To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
>
> Denise,
>
> I hate to bust your balloon but it really is a rule in ARI Policies
> and
> Procedures 04-04 "Alpaca Names"
>
> PROCEDURE
> Alpaca names must begin with a letter or digit and must have 35 or
> fewer
> characters including punctuation, breeder identifiers and spaces.
> Special
> characters and symbols will not be allowed.
> It is NOT poorly designed software. Naming of alpacas continues to be
> a
> challenge in this industry but the naming rules are pretty clear and
> defined
> for
> all to see.
>
> Personally, I don't think you would be happy if ARI allowed me to
> take one
> of your registered animals names and insert an apostrophe or dash in
> the
> name
> somewhere and then accept it as valid for one of my animals. That
> would be a
>
> very slippery slope, once started.
>
> Where would YOU draw that line in the sand?
>
> Bruce Beatty, President
> ARI Board
>
> In a message dated 11/23/2008 9:34:37 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
> D.Mossfritch@comcast.net <mailto:D.Mossfritch%40comcast.net> writes:
>
> Heather,
>
> I doubt lack of accepting an apostrophe is an ARI rule as much as
> poorly
> designed software. The error message I received said I had used and
> illegal
> character, the apostrophe, when identifying L'Etoille's name.
>
> For example, software design problems I frequently see is with a
> hyphenated
> married name. Insurance agencies, credit cards, even various levels of
> government use software that is not designed to accept a hyphen in a
> surname. Another example is gender (or sex). Most software, even on
> printed
> forms, identify only two genders - female and male. The software
> designed by
> the medical device company where I work (radiation treatment for
> cancer)
> identifies six genders, including "unknown" and "not identified". A
> couple
> of years ago we heard a lot about Y2K, yet a two digit vs. four digit
> date
> is minor compared to some software limits I see today.
>
> What concerns me is if the alpaca industry is to use EDPs, the
> information
> needed to make decision must be recordable. If we do not have database
> software that will accept the data we wish to use to make decisions,
> how
> will we be able to make informed decisions?
>
> Best,
>
> Denise
>
> Denise L. Moss-Fritch
>
> New Moon Alpacas
>
> Santa Clara, CA
>
> From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> On
> Behalf Of Heather Zeleny
> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 7:19 PM
> To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
>
> That's aggravating.
>
> You know, I think they're making up rules as they go, and enforcing
> them as they interpret them at any given time.
>
> Margaret Brewster, a Canadian breeder, has long registered her animals
> as "Name" Brew, with Brew being her herd ID. Someone else wanted to
> use
> that sort of naming convention, and it was rejected by ARI. Only after
> long back and forth and heated arguments did this other breeder
> prevail.
>
> I had a problem with my old farm name of "West Wind." Another farm
> reserved "West Winds" before I reserved "West Wind." Regardless of the
> fact that I had reserved "westwindalpacas.com" and was an AOBA member
> using the name of West Wind Alpacas since 2001. Everything was fine
> for
> years, until one day they discovered the similarity and revoked my use
> of "West Wind" therefore prompting the changing of my farm name. They
> did allow me to reserve West Wind Ltd, however.
>
> People using the same farm name as someone else really annoys me.
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Zeleny
> White Lotus Alpacas
> Creswell, OR
>
> 541.895.0964
>
> Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
> http://www.whitelotusalpacas.com
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join
>
> On Nov 23, 2008, at 7:05 PM, Denise L. Moss-Fritch wrote:
>
> > One additional element to L'Etoille's name. The software used by ARI
> > does
> > not accept an apostrophe in an alpaca's name. (You can use an
> > apostrophe in
> > the three letter breeder name when used as part of an alpaca's name,
> > but not
> > in the alpaca's name.) I called and spoke with an ARI representative
> > when
> > registering L'Etolle. The best she could recommend was to "drop" the
> > apostrophe in the registered name (from L'Etolle to L Etolle) so the
> > system
> > would accept the name. So, while his name is L'Etolle, the ARI
> > registered
> > name is L Etolle.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Denise
> >
> > Denise L. Moss-Fritch
> >
> > New Moon Alpacas
> >
> > Santa Clara, CA
> >
> > From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > On
> > Behalf Of Allison Moss-Fritch
> > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:13 PM
> > To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
> >
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > I've also been working at cria naming.it was not easy. I like
> strong,
> > one
> > word names that are memorable and imbued with positive
> > characteristics.
> > After a while it is hard to come up with something fresh.
> >
> > So, I bridged the language gap back to French, my first language and
> > we have
> > a new little shining suri boy (our 12th in a row males) named,
> > "L'Etoille"
> > which means, loosely translated, "The Star" or "The Showman"..as in
> > "movie
> > star", etc.
> >
> > So when, a few week later, this past Thursday we finally had a very
> > similar
> > little suri girl in bright white curls.I was at a loss.but a very
> > happy loss
> > after 12 boys in a row.a GIRL, and healthy at that.
> >
> > She is, after much looking into mythology and through both Christian
> > and
> > Wiccan name books for something which embodies her life
> > position.."Ismene"
> > which means among other things."Loyal Ruler" or "Named for Peace"
> The
> > name
> > has a long history, it appears in the cycle of Greek Plays called
> > Antigone.
> > Ismene is also a mythological daughter of a river god noted for her
> > courageous actions.
> >
> > For a male and one black as night.I'd be tempted to name him "Night
> > Trax".for the footprints left on a dark road on a moonless night.
> That
> > means he's got a path to leave for others to follow. Which is a good
> > visual
> > for a leader
> >
> > Just a thought for when you are having a hard time coming up with
> > something
> > different!
> >
> > Allison Moss-Fritch
> >
> > New Moon Alpacas
> >
> > Santa Clara, CA
> >
> > From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > On
> > Behalf Of Wendy Edwards
> > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 4:20 PM
> > To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
> >
> > hi Flossie - great minds must think alike eh? to me, the name
> > DreamWeaver
> > embodies so many of my feelings around my alpacas.
> > I also like the name of your farm - it sounds so peaceful
> >
> > Wendy
> > DreamWeaver Alpacas
> > BC
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Flossie Carmichael
> > To: alpacatalk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:alpacatalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:alpacatalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:alpacatalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:alpacatalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 2:07 PM
> > Subject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
> >
> > Wendy, I just looked at your farm name. I also have a male named
> Dream
> > Weaver. We call him Weaver.
> > Flossie
> > Flossie and Joe Carmichael GentleGrangeAlpacas Jamison,Pa.
> > Home-215-918-0339
> > Cell-267-614-9620 http://www.alpacanation.com/gentlegrange.asp
> >
> > To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.comFrom
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.comFrom>
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.comFrom>
> > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.comFrom>
> > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.comFrom>
> > : wendy.edwards@shaw.caDate <mailto:wendy.edwards%40shaw.caDate>
> <mailto:wendy.edwards%40shaw.caDate>
> <mailto:wendy.edwards%40shaw.caDate>
> > <mailto:wendy.edwards%40shaw.caDate> : Sun, 23
> > Nov 2008 11:23:50 -0800Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
> >
> > My black cria is called "Raven's Royal Flush" after his sire Wild
> > Rose Royal
> > Flush, a very classy male, who passed away before Raven was
> > born.WendyDreamWeaver AlpacasBC----- Original Message ----- From:
> > Flossie
> > Carmichael To: alpacatalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:alpacatalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:alpacatalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:alpacatalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:alpacatalk%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 23,
> 2008
> > 6:28
> > AMSubject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] cria nameI had a true black little girl,
> > my
> > first after 3 years of all boys, born on the same exact day. I named
> > her
> > Raven because of her color and if you could see her pronk, she
> > practically
> > flys! Black Magic? or something with Lucky in the name because you
> > sure are
> > lucky to have a black male. Flossie Flossie and Joe Carmichael
> > GentleGrangeAlpacas Jamison,Pa. Home-215-918-0339 Cell-267-614-9620
> > http://www.alpacanation.com/gentlegrange.aspTo: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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