Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Wednesday, September 03, 2008

Re: [AlpacaTalk] Problem with Newborn Cria

Did anyone read the study done in Great Britain on foal IgG levels? It
points to the finding that plasma transfers on healthy foals with low IgG's did
no good at all, but in foals that were septic it did help. It was printed in
the December 05 Equus magazine.

Susan Olson
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Problem with Newborn Cria

Yeah thanks guys, the vet is on his way to check her out and whatnot. I'll keep you posted as things develop. You guys have been very helpful. I feel a little better knowing there are others out there that get as nerved out about these animals as we do. I briefly explained what was going on when I called about the igG test they didn't have, but when I explained extensively what was going on, he said he'd be right out. Thanks again guys..;-)

Steve
Simple CriaTions Alpaca Ranch

On Sep 3, 2008, at 10:42 PM, Sheri Hewitt <sherih@woodlandmeadows.com> wrote:

It's Grapefruit Seed Extract and it works wonders with newborns. If
we ever have so much as wobbly legs I give it to them. It gets rid of
any unhealthy "bugs" the cria might have. I might feed it again the
next day too.

I hope all works out well for this baby.

Sheri

At 07:14 PM 9/3/2008, you wrote:

>Sheri - what is GSE?
>
>Karen Mander-Burnworth
>Mill Creek Farm Alpacas
>Sandy Lake, PA
> >
> > From: Sheri Hewitt
> <<mailto:sherih%40woodlandmeadows.com>sherih@woodlandmeadows.com>
> > Date: 2008/09/03 Wed PM 09:44:28 EDT
> > To: <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Problem with Newborn Cria
> >
> > Go to the store and get some GSE. Put 3 oz. of milk in a bottle and 5
> > drops of GSE and feed it. Make sure she takes all of it. You might
> > also give a small dose of oral vitamins. If you need to continue
> > bottle feeding you can try our mix. It works very well.
> >
> > We lost a dam and are bottle feeding a little female and she is
> > very healthy. The mix we use to feed for a quart is 4 oz. vanilla
> > yogurt, 4 oz whipping cream, and 24 oz organic milk. We feed this
> > every 3 hrs. during the day. We don't do this all night. Make sure
> > mom stays around and milk her when you can. The cria really should
> > start nursing at some point.
> >
> > Best of luck,
> >
> > Sheri Hewitt
> > Woodland Meadows, LLC
> > Creswell, OR
> >
> >
> > At 05:23 PM 9/3/2008, you wrote:
> >
> > >Hi guys...
> > >
> > >As I've said a million times, I'm fairly new to this industry. Don't
> > >have much to offer as far as advice here, but I do have a few
> > >questions. I hope you guys don't mind. It's nice to know that there
> > >is a place newbies like myself can turn to for help...
> > >
> > >We had a cria born last night around 6:00 p.m. She came out very
> > >small, she's not thin,she's very small, and she appears to be very
> > >weak. She couldn't stand at all for the first 6 hours of her life,
> > >which as I understand it, can be fairly common. She sort of lied on
> > >her side like she was dead. She was responsive, but just lied
> > >there. She couldn't get up, so we had to feed her colostrum <sp?>
> > >through a syringe at first, then through a bottle, so she knows how
> > >to suck. We gave her colostrum suppliment also, and a colostrum
> > >gel. No one in this area does igG testing, I called every large
> > >animal vet in the area, and no one here does it, so I have no idea
> > >what her levels are like. Her behavior over the last 24 hours hasn't
> > >changed much. She still spends alot of time on her side, she is
> > >eating, still through a bottle. We cannot get her to nurse at all
> > >off mom. She's not interested in feeding from mom at all. She'll
> > >get up and stand, but only when encouraged by people to do so. She
> > >wasn't "premature", she was born a day before her due date. She is
> > >so different from our last cria. Our last cria was up and moving
> > >around within an hour. This just doesn't seem to be normal behavior
> > >from a cria, but I'm not really sure what to do with her. Like I
> > >said, she just sort of lays lifeless, and doesn't do much. When she
> > >does get up, she only wanders a little bit, and goes right back
> > >down. She weighs 15 lbs. Any help guys? Anyone had this before?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
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Re: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Problem with Newborn Cria

It's Grapefruit Seed Extract and it works wonders with newborns. If
we ever have so much as wobbly legs I give it to them. It gets rid of
any unhealthy "bugs" the cria might have. I might feed it again the
next day too.

I hope all works out well for this baby.

Sheri

At 07:14 PM 9/3/2008, you wrote:

>Sheri - what is GSE?
>
>Karen Mander-Burnworth
>Mill Creek Farm Alpacas
>Sandy Lake, PA
> >
> > From: Sheri Hewitt
> <<mailto:sherih%40woodlandmeadows.com>sherih@woodlandmeadows.com>
> > Date: 2008/09/03 Wed PM 09:44:28 EDT
> > To: <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Problem with Newborn Cria
> >
> > Go to the store and get some GSE. Put 3 oz. of milk in a bottle and 5
> > drops of GSE and feed it. Make sure she takes all of it. You might
> > also give a small dose of oral vitamins. If you need to continue
> > bottle feeding you can try our mix. It works very well.
> >
> > We lost a dam and are bottle feeding a little female and she is
> > very healthy. The mix we use to feed for a quart is 4 oz. vanilla
> > yogurt, 4 oz whipping cream, and 24 oz organic milk. We feed this
> > every 3 hrs. during the day. We don't do this all night. Make sure
> > mom stays around and milk her when you can. The cria really should
> > start nursing at some point.
> >
> > Best of luck,
> >
> > Sheri Hewitt
> > Woodland Meadows, LLC
> > Creswell, OR
> >
> >
> > At 05:23 PM 9/3/2008, you wrote:
> >
> > >Hi guys...
> > >
> > >As I've said a million times, I'm fairly new to this industry. Don't
> > >have much to offer as far as advice here, but I do have a few
> > >questions. I hope you guys don't mind. It's nice to know that there
> > >is a place newbies like myself can turn to for help...
> > >
> > >We had a cria born last night around 6:00 p.m. She came out very
> > >small, she's not thin,she's very small, and she appears to be very
> > >weak. She couldn't stand at all for the first 6 hours of her life,
> > >which as I understand it, can be fairly common. She sort of lied on
> > >her side like she was dead. She was responsive, but just lied
> > >there. She couldn't get up, so we had to feed her colostrum <sp?>
> > >through a syringe at first, then through a bottle, so she knows how
> > >to suck. We gave her colostrum suppliment also, and a colostrum
> > >gel. No one in this area does igG testing, I called every large
> > >animal vet in the area, and no one here does it, so I have no idea
> > >what her levels are like. Her behavior over the last 24 hours hasn't
> > >changed much. She still spends alot of time on her side, she is
> > >eating, still through a bottle. We cannot get her to nurse at all
> > >off mom. She's not interested in feeding from mom at all. She'll
> > >get up and stand, but only when encouraged by people to do so. She
> > >wasn't "premature", she was born a day before her due date. She is
> > >so different from our last cria. Our last cria was up and moving
> > >around within an hour. This just doesn't seem to be normal behavior
> > >from a cria, but I'm not really sure what to do with her. Like I
> > >said, she just sort of lays lifeless, and doesn't do much. When she
> > >does get up, she only wanders a little bit, and goes right back
> > >down. She weighs 15 lbs. Any help guys? Anyone had this before?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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Re: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Problem with Newborn Cria

Sheri - what is GSE?

Karen Mander-Burnworth
Mill Creek Farm Alpacas
Sandy Lake, PA
>
> From: Sheri Hewitt <sherih@woodlandmeadows.com>
> Date: 2008/09/03 Wed PM 09:44:28 EDT
> To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Problem with Newborn Cria
>
> Go to the store and get some GSE. Put 3 oz. of milk in a bottle and 5
> drops of GSE and feed it. Make sure she takes all of it. You might
> also give a small dose of oral vitamins. If you need to continue
> bottle feeding you can try our mix. It works very well.
>
> We lost a dam and are bottle feeding a little female and she is
> very healthy. The mix we use to feed for a quart is 4 oz. vanilla
> yogurt, 4 oz whipping cream, and 24 oz organic milk. We feed this
> every 3 hrs. during the day. We don't do this all night. Make sure
> mom stays around and milk her when you can. The cria really should
> start nursing at some point.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> Sheri Hewitt
> Woodland Meadows, LLC
> Creswell, OR
>
>
> At 05:23 PM 9/3/2008, you wrote:
>
> >Hi guys...
> >
> >As I've said a million times, I'm fairly new to this industry. Don't
> >have much to offer as far as advice here, but I do have a few
> >questions. I hope you guys don't mind. It's nice to know that there
> >is a place newbies like myself can turn to for help...
> >
> >We had a cria born last night around 6:00 p.m. She came out very
> >small, she's not thin,she's very small, and she appears to be very
> >weak. She couldn't stand at all for the first 6 hours of her life,
> >which as I understand it, can be fairly common. She sort of lied on
> >her side like she was dead. She was responsive, but just lied
> >there. She couldn't get up, so we had to feed her colostrum <sp?>
> >through a syringe at first, then through a bottle, so she knows how
> >to suck. We gave her colostrum suppliment also, and a colostrum
> >gel. No one in this area does igG testing, I called every large
> >animal vet in the area, and no one here does it, so I have no idea
> >what her levels are like. Her behavior over the last 24 hours hasn't
> >changed much. She still spends alot of time on her side, she is
> >eating, still through a bottle. We cannot get her to nurse at all
> >off mom. She's not interested in feeding from mom at all. She'll
> >get up and stand, but only when encouraged by people to do so. She
> >wasn't "premature", she was born a day before her due date. She is
> >so different from our last cria. Our last cria was up and moving
> >around within an hour. This just doesn't seem to be normal behavior
> >from a cria, but I'm not really sure what to do with her. Like I
> >said, she just sort of lays lifeless, and doesn't do much. When she
> >does get up, she only wanders a little bit, and goes right back
> >down. She weighs 15 lbs. Any help guys? Anyone had this before?
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Problem with Newborn Cria

Oh of course!!!! She's got to poop! That'll take em down as fast as
anything! Great point, Susan! We make our own enema of water and
mineral oil. We get the fleet enemas and replace it with our mix of
water and mineral oil, either a 10:1 or to make it easier on me, 7:1, 7
oz water, 1 oz mineral oil.

We think the saline in the fleece enema can be a bit harsh on the
newborn's rectum.

Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Creswell, OR

541.895.0964

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
http://www.whitelotusalpacas.com
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join

On Sep 3, 2008, at 6:22 PM, Susan Forman wrote:

> Make sure you get a total protein if you can't get the IgG done. I
> think just about anybody can do that. Have you milked mom out and
> fed Mom's milk/colostrum to the cria? That's usually recommended
> along with bovine or goat colostrum. How much colostrum did she
> get? I had one earlier this year that had 11 ounces of bovine and I
> know 2 ounces from mom....probably a little more from Mom, but not
> much. Her total protein was 5 and camelid IgG about 650 -- she's
> been fine and is 2 months old today. Total protein should be at
> least 5, but I'm thinking Evans says better at around 5.4 (?) I'll
> have to look that up. Also, my OSU (Ohio State, Go Bucks!) uses
> naxcel on crias....seems to be their antibiotic of choice for about
> everything. Anyway, I agree with Heather -- get her seen ASAP since
> these little ones crash quite quickly if they're going to
> crash..........keep getting Mom's milk into her and if you can't get
> Mom milked out or she doesn't have any yet, use whole cows milk --
> easy, available. I've also put a nice dollop of vanilla yogurt in
> (if you use yogurt, don't microwave -- it'll kill the cultures) --
> and found that the organic we have here has more variety of active
> cultures -- I think it's Stoneyfield or something like that. The
> other question is, has she pooed yet? If she hasn't cleared the
> meconium, it will help to get that out of her. And believe me, they
> have a lot, so be prepared!!
>
> Keep us posted and let us know how things go.......and good luck --
> oh yeah, try to get some rest for YOU!!
> Susan
>
> Susan Forman & Eric Jenkins
> Dewey Morning Alpacas
> 423 Greenfield-Sabina Rd.
> Washington Court House, OH 43160
> 740-636-1899 Home
> 937-901-1509 Cell
> http://www.alpacanation.com/deweymorning.asp
> Home of Huey, Dewey and Louie
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.15/1649 - Release Date:
> 9/3/2008 7:15 AM
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Problem with Newborn Cria

Go to the store and get some GSE. Put 3 oz. of milk in a bottle and 5
drops of GSE and feed it. Make sure she takes all of it. You might
also give a small dose of oral vitamins. If you need to continue
bottle feeding you can try our mix. It works very well.

We lost a dam and are bottle feeding a little female and she is
very healthy. The mix we use to feed for a quart is 4 oz. vanilla
yogurt, 4 oz whipping cream, and 24 oz organic milk. We feed this
every 3 hrs. during the day. We don't do this all night. Make sure
mom stays around and milk her when you can. The cria really should
start nursing at some point.

Best of luck,

Sheri Hewitt
Woodland Meadows, LLC
Creswell, OR

At 05:23 PM 9/3/2008, you wrote:

>Hi guys...
>
>As I've said a million times, I'm fairly new to this industry. Don't
>have much to offer as far as advice here, but I do have a few
>questions. I hope you guys don't mind. It's nice to know that there
>is a place newbies like myself can turn to for help...
>
>We had a cria born last night around 6:00 p.m. She came out very
>small, she's not thin,she's very small, and she appears to be very
>weak. She couldn't stand at all for the first 6 hours of her life,
>which as I understand it, can be fairly common. She sort of lied on
>her side like she was dead. She was responsive, but just lied
>there. She couldn't get up, so we had to feed her colostrum <sp?>
>through a syringe at first, then through a bottle, so she knows how
>to suck. We gave her colostrum suppliment also, and a colostrum
>gel. No one in this area does igG testing, I called every large
>animal vet in the area, and no one here does it, so I have no idea
>what her levels are like. Her behavior over the last 24 hours hasn't
>changed much. She still spends alot of time on her side, she is
>eating, still through a bottle. We cannot get her to nurse at all
>off mom. She's not interested in feeding from mom at all. She'll
>get up and stand, but only when encouraged by people to do so. She
>wasn't "premature", she was born a day before her due date. She is
>so different from our last cria. Our last cria was up and moving
>around within an hour. This just doesn't seem to be normal behavior
>from a cria, but I'm not really sure what to do with her. Like I
>said, she just sort of lays lifeless, and doesn't do much. When she
>does get up, she only wanders a little bit, and goes right back
>down. She weighs 15 lbs. Any help guys? Anyone had this before?
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Problem with Newborn Cria

Make sure you get a total protein if you can't get the IgG done. I
think just about anybody can do that. Have you milked mom out and
fed Mom's milk/colostrum to the cria? That's usually recommended
along with bovine or goat colostrum. How much colostrum did she
get? I had one earlier this year that had 11 ounces of bovine and I
know 2 ounces from mom....probably a little more from Mom, but not
much. Her total protein was 5 and camelid IgG about 650 -- she's
been fine and is 2 months old today. Total protein should be at
least 5, but I'm thinking Evans says better at around 5.4 (?) I'll
have to look that up. Also, my OSU (Ohio State, Go Bucks!) uses
naxcel on crias....seems to be their antibiotic of choice for about
everything. Anyway, I agree with Heather -- get her seen ASAP since
these little ones crash quite quickly if they're going to
crash..........keep getting Mom's milk into her and if you can't get
Mom milked out or she doesn't have any yet, use whole cows milk --
easy, available. I've also put a nice dollop of vanilla yogurt in
(if you use yogurt, don't microwave -- it'll kill the cultures) --
and found that the organic we have here has more variety of active
cultures -- I think it's Stoneyfield or something like that. The
other question is, has she pooed yet? If she hasn't cleared the
meconium, it will help to get that out of her. And believe me, they
have a lot, so be prepared!!

Keep us posted and let us know how things go.......and good luck --
oh yeah, try to get some rest for YOU!!
Susan

Susan Forman & Eric Jenkins
Dewey Morning Alpacas
423 Greenfield-Sabina Rd.
Washington Court House, OH 43160
740-636-1899 Home
937-901-1509 Cell
http://www.alpacanation.com/deweymorning.asp
Home of Huey, Dewey and Louie

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.15/1649 - Release Date: 9/3/2008 7:15 AM

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Problem with Newborn Cria

I hope I'm just being alarmist here. I had a cria born last year, I
think 10 days overdue so also not a preemie. Normal birth weight. She
was up and nursing right on schedule, walking on schedule... But her
bottom lip looked not quite right. Not exactly swollen but not right.
On day two, she was down. dehydrating, not nursing... Our vet said
"Take her to OSU (Oregon State for us), there's probably not a lot I
can do, they go downhill fast. So we went, and dying baby had enough
fight in her to make inserting the IV into her jugular very difficult,.
took at least 30 minutes!

But, her bloods were waaaaaaay off. White cells were initially high,
but that was false because of her dehydration. Once she was hydrated,
her white cells were found to be very low. She was hyperemic... I think
that means low kidney function.. gums were red, that frightening red
line was threatening to show. Calcium was insanely high on both she and
her dam, they'd never seen calcium levels that high before.

They ran tests for lots of stuff... bloodwork for infections/sepsis...
came back clean. Fecals came back clean. It took a week of monitoring
and tube feeding at OSU, and $3000 later, she is very healthy today. No
idea what caused her scary and expensive start. She and dam were on
Nexcel for the week and we had to continue them for cria for another
two weeks after she came home. I know, everyone will say you shouldn't
give Naxcel to crias as it's somehow harmful to the immunity they may
have achieved. But my cria obviously had no immunity at that point.
Yours probably doesn't have much at this point, either regardless of
whether she's ingested adequate colostrum.

So my advice is to have a full blood panel done, and make sure the cria
gets her nutrition! Bottle feed if you have to, or if she really starts
to slide, take her and dam to the nearest Vet Med hospital. With crias,
though you can't wait long. If I had waited even another day I am
pretty sure my lovely girl wouldn't be here today.

Best of luck! Get that blood work done and make sure she gets food!
Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Creswell, OR

541.895.0964

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
http://www.whitelotusalpacas.com
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join

On Sep 3, 2008, at 5:23 PM, bntruble wrote:

> Hi guys...
>
> As I've said a million times, I'm fairly new to this industry. Don't
> have much to offer as far as advice here, but I do have a few
> questions. I hope you guys don't mind. It's nice to know that there
> is a place newbies like myself can turn to for help...
>
> We had a cria born last night around 6:00 p.m. She came out very
> small, she's not thin,she's very small, and she appears to be very
> weak. She couldn't stand at all for the first 6 hours of her life,
> which as I understand it, can be fairly common. She sort of lied on
> her side like she was dead. She was responsive, but just lied
> there. She couldn't get up, so we had to feed her colostrum <sp?>
> through a syringe at first, then through a bottle, so she knows how
> to suck. We gave her colostrum suppliment also, and a colostrum
> gel. No one in this area does igG testing, I called every large
> animal vet in the area, and no one here does it, so I have no idea
> what her levels are like. Her behavior over the last 24 hours hasn't
> changed much. She still spends alot of time on her side, she is
> eating, still through a bottle. We cannot get her to nurse at all
> off mom. She's not interested in feeding from mom at all. She'll
> get up and stand, but only when encouraged by people to do so. She
> wasn't "premature", she was born a day before her due date. She is
> so different from our last cria. Our last cria was up and moving
> around within an hour. This just doesn't seem to be normal behavior
> from a cria, but I'm not really sure what to do with her. Like I
> said, she just sort of lays lifeless, and doesn't do much. When she
> does get up, she only wanders a little bit, and goes right back
> down. She weighs 15 lbs. Any help guys? Anyone had this before?
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

[AlpacaTalk] Problem with Newborn Cria

Hi guys...

As I've said a million times, I'm fairly new to this industry. Don't
have much to offer as far as advice here, but I do have a few
questions. I hope you guys don't mind. It's nice to know that there
is a place newbies like myself can turn to for help...

We had a cria born last night around 6:00 p.m. She came out very
small, she's not thin,she's very small, and she appears to be very
weak. She couldn't stand at all for the first 6 hours of her life,
which as I understand it, can be fairly common. She sort of lied on
her side like she was dead. She was responsive, but just lied
there. She couldn't get up, so we had to feed her colostrum <sp?>
through a syringe at first, then through a bottle, so she knows how
to suck. We gave her colostrum suppliment also, and a colostrum
gel. No one in this area does igG testing, I called every large
animal vet in the area, and no one here does it, so I have no idea
what her levels are like. Her behavior over the last 24 hours hasn't
changed much. She still spends alot of time on her side, she is
eating, still through a bottle. We cannot get her to nurse at all
off mom. She's not interested in feeding from mom at all. She'll
get up and stand, but only when encouraged by people to do so. She
wasn't "premature", she was born a day before her due date. She is
so different from our last cria. Our last cria was up and moving
around within an hour. This just doesn't seem to be normal behavior
from a cria, but I'm not really sure what to do with her. Like I
said, she just sort of lays lifeless, and doesn't do much. When she
does get up, she only wanders a little bit, and goes right back
down. She weighs 15 lbs. Any help guys? Anyone had this before?

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Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: Teeth

We used to have a Highcroft trimmer (same thing as the other deal).
They actually are not so easy to use.

I prefer to use a 2' length of ob wire to trim incisors, and fighting
teeth, too, for that matter. It's nearly as fast as those scary huge
noisy dangerous electric contraptions, but much safer and quiet. We get
our ob wire from valleyvet.com I think, and it's like $11 for 12 yards!
We had used the same length of wire that we bought from useful items
for over 5 years. That first one finally wore out and we broke down and
bought a new one, and much cheaper than from useful items or quality
llama products. We do use the dremel sometimes to smooth and round over
the edges of the fighting teeth that we trimmed off with the wire, and
we also use it to grind down the points on newly erupted fighting teeth
that are too short to cut off with the wire.

Never use nail trimmers to cut off fighting teeth. Our vet cut the
fighting teeth this way, and one of our boys' tooth actually cracked
down the center. Quite sometime later, we noticed a mess of gum and
tooth grown together. I can only imagine how painful that was for the
poor boy.

Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Creswell, OR

541.895.0964

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
http://www.whitelotusalpacas.com
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join

On Sep 3, 2008, at 5:41 AM, Susan Forman wrote:

> Janice:
>
> Ahhhhh, the tooth-a-matic!! Finally saw one a couple of years ago --
> used to think they were a gag, but they're real!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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