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Tuesday, February 19, 2008

Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: [alpacapolitics] Re: Romanik v. AOBA

That wasn't some kind of threat. There were some people banned from AlpacaPolitics today, me being one of them. I thought that was where you could speak your mind. Apparently, some people's feet are getting awfully close to the fire and they are trying to stamp it out. Too bad they don't understand that they are just making it worse!

Unbelieveable, really.

Stephanie
Stardust Alpacas

Pamela Hunter <peakprez@gmail.com> wrote: Did not speak to or about anyone, in any way. This was merely a factual
observation that I found interesting.

On Feb 19, 2008 8:07 PM, Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com>
wrote:

> Far be it for me to censor people or tell people how to speak to or
> about each other, but really. This would get you banned from those
> other groups.
>
> Heather
>
> On Feb 19, 2008, at 6:47 PM, Pamela Hunter wrote:
>
> > Interesting...when I read this email in gmail, the sponsored link at
> > the top
> > of the page was "Low cost manure spreaders".
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Re: [AlpacaTalk]

Well that's a big secret, isn't it. :) There are those who say
Alpacastie, oops, Alpacasite, and alpacapolitics are owned by the same
person/people. Rick has been set up as moderator but doesn't own the
group. At least that's what I've heard.

So we don't know and we're not meant to know. Ken Madl or maybe it was
Ian Watt (my apologies if it was neither of you two gentlemen!) said
that it was set up to keep tabs on what the AOBA membership was
thinking and to "take notes" on those who don't toe the line...

Heather

On Feb 19, 2008, at 7:37 PM, Pamela Hunter wrote:

> You've got to be kidding! Who owns alpacapolitics?
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: [alpacapolitics] Re: Romanik v. AOBA

And I should have said "would get ME banned from those other groups."
Apparently everyone else can say anything they please.

On Feb 19, 2008, at 7:27 PM, Pamela Hunter wrote:

> Did not speak to or about anyone, in any way. This was merely a factual
> observation that I found interesting.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: [alpacapolitics] Re: Romanik v. AOBA

My apologies for misinterpreting your comment. however the fact that
this is a livestock discussion group shouldn't make it too surprising.

I get my gmail via my mac mail client pop connection, so I don't have
any idea how the gmail site appears or, frankly, works.

Heather

On Feb 19, 2008, at 7:27 PM, Pamela Hunter wrote:

> Did not speak to or about anyone, in any way. This was merely a factual
> observation that I found interesting.
>
> On Feb 19, 2008 8:07 PM, Heather Zeleny
> <alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Far be it for me to censor people or tell people how to speak to or
> > about each other, but really. This would get you banned from those
> > other groups.
> >
> > Heather
> >
> > On Feb 19, 2008, at 6:47 PM, Pamela Hunter wrote:
> >
> > > Interesting...when I read this email in gmail, the sponsored link
> at
> > > the top
> > > of the page was "Low cost manure spreaders".
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk]

You've got to be kidding! Who owns alpacapolitics?

On Feb 19, 2008 8:04 PM, Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com>
wrote:

> Once again, it looks like this is the only alpaca discussion group
> where free speech is honored. Another member and I have been banned
> from alpacapolitics, of all things! Can you imagine? And they said
> there were no rules on that group, anything goes!
>
> Good grief. I guess you just aren't allowed to ask questions of some
> people. I get so many calls and emails from people saying they have the
> same questions about this or that, they feel the same way (that gets me
> into trouble) but they are afraid to say anything for fear that they'll
> be banned from those other groups. And guess what, their fear is not
> unfounded! I can't believe the way people speak to me yet since they
> are cronies of those in power, it's fine. Yet when I or a few others
> speak out, we are banned. The chilling effect is real.
>
> But people, don't censor yourselves! There are so many people in this
> industry who believe in doing the right thing, and you should not be
> afraid to speak out for what's right!
>
> The people have the power!
>
> Heather
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: [alpacapolitics] Re: Romanik v. AOBA

Did not speak to or about anyone, in any way. This was merely a factual
observation that I found interesting.

On Feb 19, 2008 8:07 PM, Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com>
wrote:

> Far be it for me to censor people or tell people how to speak to or
> about each other, but really. This would get you banned from those
> other groups.
>
> Heather
>
> On Feb 19, 2008, at 6:47 PM, Pamela Hunter wrote:
>
> > Interesting...when I read this email in gmail, the sponsored link at
> > the top
> > of the page was "Low cost manure spreaders".
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: [alpacapolitics] Re: Romanik v. AOBA

Far be it for me to censor people or tell people how to speak to or
about each other, but really. This would get you banned from those
other groups.

Heather

On Feb 19, 2008, at 6:47 PM, Pamela Hunter wrote:

> Interesting...when I read this email in gmail, the sponsored link at
> the top
> of the page was "Low cost manure spreaders".
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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[AlpacaTalk]

Once again, it looks like this is the only alpaca discussion group
where free speech is honored. Another member and I have been banned
from alpacapolitics, of all things! Can you imagine? And they said
there were no rules on that group, anything goes!

Good grief. I guess you just aren't allowed to ask questions of some
people. I get so many calls and emails from people saying they have the
same questions about this or that, they feel the same way (that gets me
into trouble) but they are afraid to say anything for fear that they'll
be banned from those other groups. And guess what, their fear is not
unfounded! I can't believe the way people speak to me yet since they
are cronies of those in power, it's fine. Yet when I or a few others
speak out, we are banned. The chilling effect is real.

But people, don't censor yourselves! There are so many people in this
industry who believe in doing the right thing, and you should not be
afraid to speak out for what's right!

The people have the power!

Heather

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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Re: [AlpacaTalk] RE: [alpacapolitics] Re: Romanik v. AOBA

Interesting...when I read this email in gmail, the sponsored link at the top
of the page was "Low cost manure spreaders".

On Feb 19, 2008 12:11 PM, Floyd Romanik <floyd@indiansummeralpacas.com>
wrote:

> Libby,
>
> Our 18-year old son was watching TV one night and a question came up on a
> show that he shared with us. It involved explaining the difference between
> ethical verses moral. The show gave the example of a married man who was
> presented with the opportunity of having an affair. The character was
> asked
> what the ethical man would do. The character replied, the ethical man
> knows
> that having an affair is wrong but does it anyway. Then the character was
> asked what the moral man would do. The reply was, the moral man doesn't do
> it.
>
> Libby you were also an Intervener. While you were an Intervener you were
> also ARI president. Sometime in about December of 2003 you as ARI
> president
> signed a Confidentiality agreement which settled the ARI lawsuit that was
> filed against Mary Reed who was an ARI Director at the time. If we
> understand correctly, the reason for the lawsuit was that Mary Reed
> reportedly failed to divulge a business relationship while voting on an
> ARI
> matter which created a Conflict of Interest.
>
> What bothers us and others is that you broke that Confidentiality
> agreement
> with ARI in order to use it for your own personal benefit. You used it in
> your Land O lakes case. Your attorney argued that ARI's president (you)
> signed the agreement with Reed and that somehow you Libby Forstner in your
> private capacity were allowed to still use it? You used it to further the
> interests of your farm of which you're majority owner. In essence ARI says
> that while they did not give you permission to break that Confidentiality
> agreement, they can't take any action against you since you're no longer a
> sitting Board member. It's certainly ARI's right to decide to not take any
> action at all against you.
>
> We're not getting into all the allegations that fly around between you,
> Reed, Stachowski and your farms. I'm trying to understand how you as
> former
> ARI President had the right to divulge a confidentiality agreement to
> anyone
> including your husband, farm, and others you represented in the LOL case.
> You certainly know that your actions were wrong.. You were after all an
> Intervener.
>
> Like you use to say as an Intervener, all it takes for self-dealing to
> prevail on our industry boards is for good people to do nothing... even if
> that action is to simply ask questions... It was sound advice then and is
> to this day.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Floyd and Ana Romanik
> Indian Summer Alpacas
> Chepachet, Rhode Island
> Phone: (401) 568-7759
>
> _____
>
> From: alpacapolitics@yahoogroups.com <alpacapolitics%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
> alpacapolitics@yahoogroups.com <alpacapolitics%40yahoogroups.com>]
> On Behalf Of libby@alpacafarm.com <libby%40alpacafarm.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 8:40 AM
> To: alpacapolitics@yahoogroups.com <alpacapolitics%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [alpacapolitics] Re: Romanik v. AOBA
>
> Just because it happened then, doesn't mean it is happening now. Facts and
> proof are good things to insist on before libeling good people. A couple
> people who were intervenors are on the Board now and their positions about
> Boards overstepping authority are well documented. Please don't paint
> everyone with a single brush.
>
> Libby
>
> Libby Forstner
> Magical Farms
>
> Stardust Alpacas
> <stardustalpacas@
> yahoo.com> To
> Sent by: alpacapolitics@ <mailto:alpacapolitics%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> alpacapolitics@ya cc
> hoogroups.com
> Subject
> Re: [alpacapolitics] Re: Romanik v.
> 02/16/2008 11:42 AOBA
> PM
>
> Please respond to
> alpacapolitics@ya
> hoogroups.com
>
> Connie,
>
> You have a very different idea of what goes on with
> politics than I do. Secret laws are slipped in at the
> last second and there are many lobbyists working,
> bribing and blackmailing to make things happen for
> their industries. There are tons of agendas and lots
> of nasty backstabbing people in Washington, along with
> murders, kidnappings and tons of other things we never
> hear about.
>
> Presidents are put in power who didn't truly win and
> many things including wars are voted on without the
> normal citizen's best interest at heart.
>
> There are these same people in corporate America. Some
> go to jail. There are scandals like Enron. There are
> companies like Microsoft working for world domination
> in computers.
>
> AOBA afterall, had those "Interveners" because the BOD
> was deciding things that were not legal to decide
> without a vote from the membership. Who says that
> can't happen again and isn't now? What about the for
> profit subsidiary? Me thinks that was a biggie that
> should have been discussed before implementing.
>
> Catch a clue.
>
> --- Connie Headrick Crawford <connie111@yahoo.
> <mailto:connie111%40yahoo.com> com>
> wrote:
>
> > REALLY! REALLY!
> >
> > You want every single thing put to a vote, when
> > there are actually
> > people slamming the greatest coup of all.. .THE ROSE
> > PARADE!
> >
> > Just please, give me just one break from you
> > unintelligable rantings!
> >
> > You simply have no idea how an organization works.
> >
> > Think of it this way:
> >
> > You elect your congress person to send them to
> > Washington to
> > represent you. Do they ask you how you want them to
> > vote on every
> > single issue? Not a Chance of that every happening.
> > . .yet, they do
> > the best they can for you!
> >
> > Does Bush call or write you to see how you feel on
> > every bill he is
> > about to sign to see how you feel about it?
> >
> > Does the Mayor of your town call you before he makes
> > a decision?
> >
> > NO! Because those people, hopefully, have your best
> > interest at
> > heart, for you, and more importantly the area you
> > live in.
> >
> > Can you call your mayor, your congressmen, your city
> > council member,
> > your State and Federal Representatives?
> >
> > YUP!
> >
> > SAME HERE!
> >
> > You have a vote and you have a right to call any
> > board member and
> > tell them how you feel about anything. And they
> > will listen and
> > certainly take into consideration what your concerns
> > are. They will
> > factor in your concerns, and those of all the
> > others, and make the
> > best decision that they can. It won't always be the
> > decision you
> > want, but your opinion and voice will be heard.
> >
> > I simply don't see anything wrong in that. That is
> > the way democracy
> > works, and it also works very well within the inner
> > workings of AOBA!
> >
> > When you have a concern or a problem with any issue,
> > CALL one of the
> > Board Members. They will listen, they may even try
> > to explain things
> > you don't know. But if you don't call, you simply
> > have nothing to
> > ever complain about.
> >
> > Love,
> > Connie
> >
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo. <http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs> com/r/hs
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[AlpacaTalk] RE: [alpacapolitics] Re: Romanik v. AOBA

Libby,

Our 18-year old son was watching TV one night and a question came up on a
show that he shared with us. It involved explaining the difference between
ethical verses moral. The show gave the example of a married man who was
presented with the opportunity of having an affair. The character was asked
what the ethical man would do. The character replied, the ethical man knows
that having an affair is wrong but does it anyway. Then the character was
asked what the moral man would do. The reply was, the moral man doesn't do
it.

Libby you were also an Intervener. While you were an Intervener you were
also ARI president. Sometime in about December of 2003 you as ARI president
signed a Confidentiality agreement which settled the ARI lawsuit that was
filed against Mary Reed who was an ARI Director at the time. If we
understand correctly, the reason for the lawsuit was that Mary Reed
reportedly failed to divulge a business relationship while voting on an ARI
matter which created a Conflict of Interest.

What bothers us and others is that you broke that Confidentiality agreement
with ARI in order to use it for your own personal benefit. You used it in
your Land O lakes case. Your attorney argued that ARI's president (you)
signed the agreement with Reed and that somehow you Libby Forstner in your
private capacity were allowed to still use it? You used it to further the
interests of your farm of which you're majority owner. In essence ARI says
that while they did not give you permission to break that Confidentiality
agreement, they can't take any action against you since you're no longer a
sitting Board member. It's certainly ARI's right to decide to not take any
action at all against you.

We're not getting into all the allegations that fly around between you,
Reed, Stachowski and your farms. I'm trying to understand how you as former
ARI President had the right to divulge a confidentiality agreement to anyone
including your husband, farm, and others you represented in the LOL case.
You certainly know that your actions were wrong.. You were after all an
Intervener.

Like you use to say as an Intervener, all it takes for self-dealing to
prevail on our industry boards is for good people to do nothing... even if
that action is to simply ask questions... It was sound advice then and is
to this day.

Sincerely,

Floyd and Ana Romanik
Indian Summer Alpacas
Chepachet, Rhode Island
Phone: (401) 568-7759

_____

From: alpacapolitics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:alpacapolitics@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of libby@alpacafarm.com
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 8:40 AM
To: alpacapolitics@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [alpacapolitics] Re: Romanik v. AOBA

Just because it happened then, doesn't mean it is happening now. Facts and
proof are good things to insist on before libeling good people. A couple
people who were intervenors are on the Board now and their positions about
Boards overstepping authority are well documented. Please don't paint
everyone with a single brush.

Libby

Libby Forstner
Magical Farms

Stardust Alpacas
<stardustalpacas@
yahoo.com> To
Sent by: alpacapolitics@ <mailto:alpacapolitics%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
alpacapolitics@ya cc
hoogroups.com
Subject
Re: [alpacapolitics] Re: Romanik v.
02/16/2008 11:42 AOBA
PM

Please respond to
alpacapolitics@ya
hoogroups.com

Connie,

You have a very different idea of what goes on with
politics than I do. Secret laws are slipped in at the
last second and there are many lobbyists working,
bribing and blackmailing to make things happen for
their industries. There are tons of agendas and lots
of nasty backstabbing people in Washington, along with
murders, kidnappings and tons of other things we never
hear about.

Presidents are put in power who didn't truly win and
many things including wars are voted on without the
normal citizen's best interest at heart.

There are these same people in corporate America. Some
go to jail. There are scandals like Enron. There are
companies like Microsoft working for world domination
in computers.

AOBA afterall, had those "Interveners" because the BOD
was deciding things that were not legal to decide
without a vote from the membership. Who says that
can't happen again and isn't now? What about the for
profit subsidiary? Me thinks that was a biggie that
should have been discussed before implementing.

Catch a clue.

--- Connie Headrick Crawford <connie111@yahoo.
<mailto:connie111%40yahoo.com> com>
wrote:

> REALLY! REALLY!
>
> You want every single thing put to a vote, when
> there are actually
> people slamming the greatest coup of all.. .THE ROSE
> PARADE!
>
> Just please, give me just one break from you
> unintelligable rantings!
>
> You simply have no idea how an organization works.
>
> Think of it this way:
>
> You elect your congress person to send them to
> Washington to
> represent you. Do they ask you how you want them to
> vote on every
> single issue? Not a Chance of that every happening.
> . .yet, they do
> the best they can for you!
>
> Does Bush call or write you to see how you feel on
> every bill he is
> about to sign to see how you feel about it?
>
> Does the Mayor of your town call you before he makes
> a decision?
>
> NO! Because those people, hopefully, have your best
> interest at
> heart, for you, and more importantly the area you
> live in.
>
> Can you call your mayor, your congressmen, your city
> council member,
> your State and Federal Representatives?
>
> YUP!
>
> SAME HERE!
>
> You have a vote and you have a right to call any
> board member and
> tell them how you feel about anything. And they
> will listen and
> certainly take into consideration what your concerns
> are. They will
> factor in your concerns, and those of all the
> others, and make the
> best decision that they can. It won't always be the
> decision you
> want, but your opinion and voice will be heard.
>
> I simply don't see anything wrong in that. That is
> the way democracy
> works, and it also works very well within the inner
> workings of AOBA!
>
> When you have a concern or a problem with any issue,
> CALL one of the
> Board Members. They will listen, they may even try
> to explain things
> you don't know. But if you don't call, you simply
> have nothing to
> ever complain about.
>
> Love,
> Connie
>
>
>

__________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo. <http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs> com/r/hs

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
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