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Thursday, February 11, 2010

Re: [AlpacaTalk]Temp and fleece

 

I am also baffled as to why some mammals would be so markedly different from other mammals. Makes sense to me that those who need more hair would produce it, of they could.



Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece

On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:13 PM, barngirrl@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 2/11/2010 5:33:12 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, tcalpacas@aol.com writes:
Susan, of course you're correct about horses and I suspect for cattle, bison, dogs and probably other species with hair coats too.  However my question regarding fleece producing animals I think still remains.  If alpacas grew what they needed in response to winter conditions, 2" per year or so would be sufficient.  On that basis we wouldn't have an industry and I suspect sheep producers wouldn't either.
 
Elden Harms
Token Creek Alpacas
Sun Prairie WI
Why would fleece animals be any different?  They respond to climate fluctuations also.
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA

"My treasures do not chink or glitter, 
they glean in the sun 
and neigh in the night." - unknown


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posted by Chaddo at 9:20 PM 0 comments

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Re: [AlpacaTalk]Temp and fleece

 

In a message dated 2/11/2010 5:33:12 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, tcalpacas@aol.com writes:
Susan, of course you're correct about horses and I suspect for cattle, bison, dogs and probably other species with hair coats too.  However my question regarding fleece producing animals I think still remains.  If alpacas grew what they needed in response to winter conditions, 2" per year or so would be sufficient.  On that basis we wouldn't have an industry and I suspect sheep producers wouldn't either.
 
Elden Harms
Token Creek Alpacas
Sun Prairie WI
Why would fleece animals be any different?  They respond to climate fluctuations also.
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA

"My treasures do not chink or glitter,
they glean in the sun
and neigh in the night." - unknown

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Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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posted by Chaddo at 9:13 PM 0 comments

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[AlpacaTalk] alpaca show

 

hi all - i won't complain about the rotten mud here, after reading about snow, ice and frozen water buckets on this weblist
 
i thought some of you might be interested in knowing about the PCAN (Pacific Coast Alpaca Network) alpaca show that is coming up the first weekend of May. There is a fleece class as well as halter, and even a spin-off (first time for us).  The show is being held in Nanoose Bay (very close to the ferry) on Vancouver Island - if anyone is interested i can send all the information or you can google our website (Pacific Coast Alpaca Network)
 
- i look at my mudballs-on-legs and wonder if they will ever be dry enough for a show but it gives me something to look forward to, and makes me feel like spring is in sight.  I've attended the show for the last two years and had a lot of fun - this is the first year i am jumping in with both feet, so to speak, and am on the show committee - I'm learning lots
 
let me know if anyone wants the info - ;you can email me privately at wendy.edwards@shaw.ca - oooops now i 'm wondering if this is the kind of email that's not allowed - my apologies if it is
Wendy
DreamWeaver Alpacas
BC
 
 

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posted by Chaddo at 5:40 PM 0 comments

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Re: [AlpacaTalk]Temp and fleece

 

Susan, of course you're correct about horses and I suspect for cattle, bison, dogs and probably other species with hair coats too.  However my question regarding fleece producing animals I think still remains.  If alpacas grew what they needed in response to winter conditions, 2" per year or so would be sufficient.  On that basis we wouldn't have an industry and I suspect sheep producers wouldn't either.
 
Elden Harms
Token Creek Alpacas
Sun Prairie WI
 


 


-----Original Message-----
From: barngirrl@aol.com
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Feb 11, 2010 6:12 pm
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] What's new? Temp and fleece

 
In a message dated 2/11/2010 2:00:25 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, tcalpacas@aol.com writes:
Does anyone have studies to show that fleece bearing animals can increase and decrease staple growth in response to year over year climate change? I could easily accept a many generational shift, I'm having difficulty accepting that an animal could do this in its lifetime

Elden Harms
Any horse owner knows horses do this every year.  This year and last year my horses grew ZERO winter coat due to the mild winter.  They usually grow thick coats and shed them out in spring.
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA

"My treasures do not chink or glitter,
they glean in the sun
and neigh in the night." - unknown

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
.

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posted by Chaddo at 5:32 PM 0 comments

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RE: [AlpacaTalk] RE: What's new?

 

Hi Janice, Unfortunately the $12.95 price must have been a web special that expired. Keep an eye on their site though because I've bought these coats at that price for several years and I know they will go on sale again. Register on the site to get the email specials so you don't miss it.
Flossie

Flossie and Joe Carmichael
GentleGrangeAlpacas
Jamison,Pa.
Home-215-918-0339
Cell-267-614-9620
http://www.alpacanation.com/gentlegrange.asp




 

To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
From: jelizabethfarms1@bellsouth.net
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:50:43 -0500
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] RE: What's new?

 
<<<Money is tight so I ordered xxxl dog coats, 44"-49" from Big Dee's
online. They were on sale for $12.95 each, are waterproof and have
velcro belly bands. They were so nice I ordered a few more yesterday. I
was complaining about the mud but all this snow is worse. It just looks
prettier. Stay warm everyone.

Flossie>>>

I have been knee deep in mud for so long I can't even remember when we
were not. It is so deep in the horse pasture that I have been worrying
about them breaking a leg. Luckily the alpacas are not so hard and
don't beat their pasture to a pulp, so they just have normal amts of
mud. I have been so discouraged with the weather and all the problems
the constant rains for the past year have brought - septic tank and
field lines have failed for instance; and my firewood is all too wet to
burn......and we heat with wood. I rarely get a chance to catch the
news but lately have been seeing what the rest of the country is dealing
with and I feel bad for complaining about mud! So lately, instead of
complaining about yet another day of rain, I have taken to saying "well
at least it isn't frozen!".

Thanks for the heads up on the dog coats; I'm going to check it out. I
only have one little cria coat and with the unusual amt of sleet we've
had this year it would have been nice to be able to put a coat on my
small herd instead of having to lock them all up in the tiny "barn" I
have for the night.

Janice in NW GA


Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.

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posted by Chaddo at 4:42 PM 0 comments

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] What's new? Temp and fleece

 

It has been a minimum of 3" to show in full fleece for as long as I have been showing suris. And I have been showing shorn suris in full fleece classes since before there was a separate class for them. 

Blue Skies
Jennifer


On Feb 11, 2010, at 4:14 PM, barngirrl@aol.com wrote:


In a message dated 2/11/2010 12:49:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, jpowers@bentstarproject.org writes:
The 3" rule for suris is not new.
I was told by AOBA that it is new for 2010.
 
SUSAN OLSON

"My treasures do not chink or glitter, 
they glean in the sun 
and neigh in the night." - unknown


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Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
.

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posted by Chaddo at 4:20 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] What's new? Temp and fleece

 

In a message dated 2/11/2010 12:49:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, jpowers@bentstarproject.org writes:
The 3" rule for suris is not new.
I was told by AOBA that it is new for 2010.
 
SUSAN OLSON

"My treasures do not chink or glitter,
they glean in the sun
and neigh in the night." - unknown

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
.

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posted by Chaddo at 4:14 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] What's new? Temp and fleece

 

In a message dated 2/11/2010 2:00:25 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, tcalpacas@aol.com writes:
Does anyone have studies to show that fleece bearing animals can increase and decrease staple growth in response to year over year climate change? I could easily accept a many generational shift, I'm having difficulty accepting that an animal could do this in its lifetime

Elden Harms
Any horse owner knows horses do this every year.  This year and last year my horses grew ZERO winter coat due to the mild winter.  They usually grow thick coats and shed them out in spring.
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA

"My treasures do not chink or glitter,
they glean in the sun
and neigh in the night." - unknown

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
.

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posted by Chaddo at 4:12 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] What's new? Temp and fleece

 

Does anyone have studies to show that fleece bearing animals can increase and decrease staple growth in response to year over year climate change? I could easily accept a many generational shift, I'm having difficulty accepting that an animal could do this in its lifetime

Elden Harms

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

From: barngirrl@aol.com
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:25:41 EST
To: <AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] What's new? Temp and fleece

 

I just sent this email to AOBA, I have been trying to get the fleece length requirement changed for awhile now.  If anyone agrees with me (or not), please write to AOBA and voice your opinion.
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA
 
==================
 
 
I really think there is something to this, everyone I know has noticed the difference in fleece density and length from the east to the west.  It has always been this way in horses, dogs, etc.  The West Coast just can't compete as well against the East in fleece length when showing.  After last year's mild winter in CA, for the first time some of our animals shorn in May didn't have the required 3" in November to show in full fleece classes. 
 
I think the 3" fleece length requirement should be changed to 2" or a lot of people will be precluded from showing, its not just our animals and I don't want to show my Suris in just shorn classes and would just stay home from the show.  In this economy, I don't think we should limit newer breeders or anyone else for that matter from showing and the judges should factor in fleece length/shearing dates to the scores.  What are your opinions?
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA

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Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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posted by Chaddo at 2:00 PM 0 comments

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] What's new? Temp and fleece

 

The 3" rule for suris is not new.

Blue Skies
Jennifer Powers
Aero Ranch Suri Alpacas

Browns Valley, CA


On Feb 11, 2010, at 12:46 PM, barngirrl@aol.com wrote:


PLEASE send your thoughts to AOBA, let's get this stupid 3" rule changed (it is new for 2010 show rules for the suris.)  You don't have to be an AOBA member to email them at info@aobamail.com
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA
 
=================
 
In a message dated 2/11/2010 12:34:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, alpacatalk@gmail.com writes:

I agree, fleeces with less that 6 months of growth generally have far less than 3" staple length. I thought that the requirement was for 2" staple.  And since for processing, mills require at least 3" growth for the entire year, I think that for animals with 6 months of less growth, certainly 2" of growth should be allowed in halter shows held in fall.



 
Heather Zeleny


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Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
.

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posted by Chaddo at 12:48 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] What's new? Temp and fleece

 

PLEASE send your thoughts to AOBA, let's get this stupid 3" rule changed (it is new for 2010 show rules for the suris.)  You don't have to be an AOBA member to email them at info@aobamail.com
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA
 
=================
 
In a message dated 2/11/2010 12:34:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, alpacatalk@gmail.com writes:

I agree, fleeces with less that 6 months of growth generally have far less than 3" staple length. I thought that the requirement was for 2" staple.  And since for processing, mills require at least 3" growth for the entire year, I think that for animals with 6 months of less growth, certainly 2" of growth should be allowed in halter shows held in fall.



 
Heather Zeleny

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
.

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posted by Chaddo at 12:46 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] What's new? Temp and fleece

 

I agree, fleeces with less that 6 months of growth generally have far less than 3" staple length. I thought that the requirement was for 2" staple.  And since for processing, mills require at least 3" growth for the entire year, I think that for animals with 6 months of less growth, certainly 2" of growth should be allowed in halter shows held in fall.



Heather

Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
Oregon

Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece

On Feb 11, 2010, at 12:25 PM, barngirrl@aol.com wrote:

I just sent this email to AOBA, I have been trying to get the fleece length requirement changed for awhile now.  If anyone agrees with me (or not), please write to AOBA and voice your opinion.
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA
 
==================
 
 
I really think there is something to this, everyone I know has noticed the difference in fleece density and length from the east to the west.  It has always been this way in horses, dogs, etc.  The West Coast just can't compete as well against the East in fleece length when showing.  After last year's mild winter in CA, for the first time some of our animals shorn in May didn't have the required 3" in November to show in full fleece classes. 
 
I think the 3" fleece length requirement should be changed to 2" or a lot of people will be precluded from showing, its not just our animals and I don't want to show my Suris in just shorn classes and would just stay home from the show.  In this economy, I don't think we should limit newer breeders or anyone else for that matter from showing and the judges should factor in fleece length/shearing dates to the scores.  What are your opinions?
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA


__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
.

__,_._,___

posted by Chaddo at 12:34 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] What's new? Temp and fleece

 

I just sent this email to AOBA, I have been trying to get the fleece length requirement changed for awhile now.  If anyone agrees with me (or not), please write to AOBA and voice your opinion.
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA
 
==================
 
 
I really think there is something to this, everyone I know has noticed the difference in fleece density and length from the east to the west.  It has always been this way in horses, dogs, etc.  The West Coast just can't compete as well against the East in fleece length when showing.  After last year's mild winter in CA, for the first time some of our animals shorn in May didn't have the required 3" in November to show in full fleece classes. 
 
I think the 3" fleece length requirement should be changed to 2" or a lot of people will be precluded from showing, its not just our animals and I don't want to show my Suris in just shorn classes and would just stay home from the show.  In this economy, I don't think we should limit newer breeders or anyone else for that matter from showing and the judges should factor in fleece length/shearing dates to the scores.  What are your opinions?
 
SUSAN OLSON
Alpaca Loco
Riverside, CA

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Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
.

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posted by Chaddo at 12:25 PM 0 comments

Free Alpacas Newsletter- How to Profit from Alpaca Farming

Re: [AlpacaTalk] What's new? Temp and fleece

 

I completely agree here, though I am sure to some I am wrong also. I live in WA and this year, we had a very mild winter. No snow, some very cold nights during our cold snaps, but nothing consistant, and the amount of rain and cold together was close to non-existant. The result? Our fleeces are very short, and will probably not make it to 3" by shearing. The density is there, but length is horrible.

 

Last year, it was rediculously cold, tons of snow (The most WA had seen in a very long time. I think it was something like 30 years) and lots of winter came at once. The alpacas were little fiber machines. We had tons of fiber on them with lots of density but all still kept their fineness.

 

We have them on the same feeding regimen we had them on last year, and the quality of hay is the same if not better. They have been on the same feed for years and have always done well on it weight wise, but I am convinced that without the weather to demand the growth, it is going to be hard to get tons of it. I have also always believed that while micron and fleece can be genetic, you also have environmental factors that play into density, growth, and micron. Either way, I know what you are saying here, and it can be very frustrating to not get good growth because they weather just was not playing right. I like warm, but not if it's going to play with my herd's fleece. :-)

 

Maegan

Cedar Grove Alpacas

WA

 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard & Robin Vasquez" <rv@lovethemalpacas.com>
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 7:48:34 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] What's new? Temp and fleece

 

Hi Laura,
I think temperature does make a difference in fleece but most of the experts don't agree with me.  I know my dogs coats change and are thicker when it is going to be a long cold winter in California.   I do notice that east coast alpaca arrivals have a denser fleece and after a year or two here don't seem to have the same handle.
 Older production gals don't have very good fleece but some of our girls that have the worst fleece of the entire herd produce the crias with the best density and length.   Can't judge a book by its cover so to speak.   I currently have one dam that looks like heck but she has produced several champions in her lifetime and her last cria will be in our show string this year. 
I was going to whine and complain about our rain and mud but after a few stories of the snow you folks are dealing with I thought I best be silent.  We don't have freezing temps or frozen water or any of those things.  I give you much credit.  I am a total California sissy girl.
Robin
Richard and Robin Vasquez
R & R Ranch LLC
325B Denio Avenue
Gilroy,CA 95020
Phone: 408-842-5233/ Cell 408-710-0676/710-7911
 
       A Ranch of Distinction
www.LoveThemAlpacas.com
                          LTA
 


--- On Thu, 2/11/10, Laura A. Roberts <laura0554@hughes.net> wrote:

From: Laura A. Roberts <laura0554@hughes.net>
Subject: RE: [SPAM][AlpacaTalk] What's new?
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 7:33 AM

 

            Dh has decided we must have a generator and I agree.  The most important thing for me is being able to get water…..so his plan is to get one that we can switch over to for some of the power needed in the house, the well pump and the outlets in the barn that the buckets are plugged in to.

 

            I have three new alpacas in our quarantine paddock and barn that I had hoped to put with the rest of the herd this week, but haven't been able to, yet.  THEY adventure out a bit, but the others (12) are content to sit on their behinds eating and pooping.  

 

            I have lived in VA since 1978 and this is the most snow I have ever seen.  We got 20" in Dec (unheard of that early) then about 18" late January, then another 15" and the last one this week dumped about 6".  The temps are up this week in the mid thirties during the day so the snow is melting.  It is dropping to teens at night, though, so anything melted freezes.  The kids have been out of school since last Friday.  I have no idea what they will have to do to make up the time. 

            I also have another question that I have never seen raised before.  We bought an older gal from CA who has been bred regularly.  Her fleece is thin and sparse compared to my girls.  I realize age and gestating and lactating have an affect on their fleece, but I am also wondering if animals exposed to lower temps have denser fleece?  I know alpacas are raised everywhere, but is it possible alpacas raised in snowy and cold climates have more fleece?  Like the dogs whose coats thicken up for winter…do theirs? 

            I have one girl expecting in April and I hope we see Spring before then!  The thought of a cria in this cold makes me shiver! 

Laura

Laura Roberts

R Half Pint Farm

Spotsylvania, VA 

From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of Emma Urban
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:49 AM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro ups.com
Subject: Re: [SPAM][AlpacaTalk] What's new?

 

I used to live in Stafford before I moved to MI and started to raise alpacas. I have often thought about what I'd do to water the animals if we lost power. It is definitely a very important thing to think about. Glad you posted and gave us some ideas. I keep thinking about getting a generator for the day when I lose power, but I haven't made the investment.

 

I don't give ivermectin in the winter because everything is frozen. This is really a hotly debated topic and no one really has a definitive answer. I guess it really is a personal thing. I am probably one of the unusual ones (in not giving the shots year round). I also provide Evan's Vitamin E blend as a free choice mineral. I put DE (diatomatious Earth) in with it. The alpaca love the stuff, I have a hard time keeping the mineral bins full. I do not give my fiber herd any pellets, so they really go through the minerals. I count on the DE helping with internal parasites. I started in the fall and plan to do a fecal in the spring to see where we are before I do any worming. I'm hoping they're clean and I don't have to worm.

 

Twenty inches of snow is A LOT for VA. Stay warm and enjoy it while you can. Did your alpacas go out and check it out?

Thank you, Emma D. Urban
Urban Dreams Farm, LLC
9667 W. Van Buren Rd
Riverdale , MI 48877
www.urbandreamsfarm .com
989-463-5150 (h)
989-436-5061 (c)

 

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Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
.

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posted by Chaddo at 11:28 AM 0 comments