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Monday, November 17, 2008

[AlpacaTalk] RE: [Alpacasite] Re: Open letter to Board re: feedback and input re: long range planning objectives

Good evening sites,

I am beginning to feel that the drain is backed up because we all keep
dredging up the same old issues.but not much is resolved.

Generally speaking those elected to any of our industries illustrious
BODS..or Committees, or a variety of other industry entities.run because
theyALREADY have a background in alpacas .so even without formal "input"
from the electorate..they know what the issues are and frequently were
elected in part because they already support one side or another of the
argument.

It would be blatantly idiotic if they did not. So why are we as a set of
chat sites so suddenly focused on the idea that we and only we can tell them
by either giving to them our 10000's of individual opinions each personally
delivered by email or phone? Isn't that a bit disingenuous of us? Come
on..our officials already know what the industry issues are and frequently
know how the most active of us line up on those issues.no matter which issue
you speak of.

What is more important to realize.and many don't appear to consider this in
their thinking.is the fact that with so many new people joining in the
industry.many of "us" DON'T remember some of t he historical moments
chronicled in Libby's or several other email postings. It is well to
remember that the "we" that votes in the BOD has changed and will continue
to change over the years. These new folks won't always know the long range
history behind this favorite knee jerk issue or that one.

Even more importantly..they won't know why this little set of buzz words or
that little set of buzz words uttered in one of these public forums suddenly
seems to have set off a landmine of lustily bawled comments.from what seems
to be at best a limp wristed reason to cry much else but "Wolf".

We must mature as a industry to the point where we can weather the
occasional poorly chosen word or phrase without bankrupting the printers of
ink. And overloading thousands of in boxes.

We have to be better able to address even real or serious industry
challenges in a calm, deliberate, reflective and open minded manner.

Little blizzards of emotion.as have occurred in the recent past, just must
not occur. If it is so easy to stampede this industry.so reliable is its
response of chaos..that it is very easily manipulated..and that has been
more than once in my memory. So ask: Who is playing on your fears? Who is
whipping up emotions? Who is making claims of conspiracy in the elected
officials? Who is crying, "Wolf"...with high hopes you will continue to
respond?

At what point do we learn NOT to be so easily manipulated to someone else's
fervor.to someone else's advantage.to give up our power so easily at the
smallest whisper .whether founded or not?

When do we learn to quit demanding and wait for facts to develop instead of
playing a never ending game of "Gossip"? If we disable our own industry
group.disable our own elected officials before they can plan and act.aren't
we just cutting off our nose to spite our face? Why give someone else the
satisfaction of creating a situation where we are self disabling?

What is the reason why certain persons have worked so hard to destroy any
trust in the new BOD..learn to look behind the actions to find the
motivations. Always.Always.

Think BEFORE you act.not after. Don't run scared. Don't become maudlin.
Don't let others use your ease in becoming upset to make their power.

Let us just "cool our jets" and figure out who is so interested in getting
this "herd to run".

Allison Moss-Fritch

New Moon Alpacas

Santa Clara, CA

From: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of libby@alpacafarm.com
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:59 PM
To: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Alpacasite] Re: Open letter to Board re: feedback and input
re: long range planning objectives

Hello John,

My couterpoints are facts and everyone here knows it as we all voted on
merger, closure and breed standards and the membership decided them all.
No one is perfect but on those biggest issues mentioned, the Boards in
place involved the membership and gave them a vote. I'm not saying that
the Boards (plural) were perfect and didn't make mistakes but on those
biggest issues, they let the memberships decide and I believe the
Strategic Plan which makes major changes is an area that begs for
membership involvement. Yes, the membership should expect the Board to
handle the day to day operations but this issue is bigger than day to day
operations. It just happens that you don't care about marketing and you
seem to like this plan so I'm not surprised at your perspective which I
don't begrudge. Perhaps you have more information than the rest of us.

While on the ARI Board, I asked the membership to also vote on moving
Closure (and other important ARI issues) to the Bylaws of ARI which they
did and now requires a vote of the membership to reopen the Registry
instead of letting 5 or 7 Board members decide such a big issue on their
own. Some issues are of such a grand impact that membership involvement
is critical. There were other key issues I was involved with when I was
on the ARI Board. Amy, as AOBA President, and I, as ARI President opened
communciations between ARI and AOBA when previously the organizations
weren't getting along. We started One Voice to better communicate with
the members and ARI began participation in the Affiliate meetings. Even
you must admit that I responded to every e-mail sent to me by the
membership during my tenure on ARI as soon as I could which was usually
within hours...even those with whom I disagreed.

I'm sorry but I do not see asking for information and giving feedback on
such an important issue as negative but as you and I always seem to
do...we can agree to disagree. Those were my questions and the questions
of many others.

Yes, I also anxiously await information from the Board re: details of this
new proposed plan and we are continuing to discuss this only because I was
answering your post. The problem I see is that if the membership agrees,
then the feedback is seen by you as healthy and supportive. If the
membership disagrees, then it is seen as divisive and hateful. So...now
this Board is paying attention to their own agendas and ignoring those
with issues different than their own such as national marketing. And so it
goes.

I also agree to make this our last exchange.

Be well.
Libby

Libby Forstner
Magical Farms, Inc.
Litchfield Ohio
(330)667-3233

"gatewayfarm" <johnwmerrell@earthlink.net
<mailto:johnwmerrell%40earthlink.net> >
Sent by: Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Alpacasite%40yahoogroups.com>
11/17/2008 08:19 PM
Please respond to
Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Alpacasite%40yahoogroups.com>

To
Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Alpacasite%40yahoogroups.com>
cc

Subject
[Alpacasite] Re: Open letter to Board re: feedback and input re: long
range planning objectives

--- In Alpacasite@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Alpacasite%40yahoogroups.com> ,
libby@... wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Sour grapes? It's actually concern peppered with a little fear and
lots
> of curiosity as well as a concern to calm the fears I have and
others have
> as well. Positive action helps.

This will be my last response on this one Libby.

Your counterpoints fail to ring true. As a former Director you are
well aware that Boards make decisions - big, overarching policy
decisions sometimes, and little seemingly inconsequential decisions
other times.

Such decisions do not always include any formal involvement of the
membership - in fact it is the exception where the inception of
policy decisions begin with formal member involvement.

I gave a pretty good list of examples, most of which you, or yours,
were involved in.

Member involvement, if it occurs at all, comes after the idea
receives Board approval.

So, I expect we will now have some member involvement.

It can be healthy and supportive...

Or, it can be divisive and hateful...

This Board would appear to be responding to concerns and interests
that have been raised by many, many current and former members of
AOBA - concerns soundly ignored for a very long time by the Board of
Directors.

So, let's give 'em a chance to do their job, and see if they don't
involve us all as the framework gets filled in - just as you have
admonished industry stakeholders to do for the past 4 years or more.

Again, I would encourage you to go have a glass of wine (vs. whine)
or do something else satisfying and fulfilling. Positive action
would indeed help, and there are many hoping that you will be
POSITIVE role model.

As the Rolling Stones sang, "You don't always get what you want, but
if you try sometime, you just might find, you get what you need..."

Regards,

John Merrell
Scio, OR

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Bobcat!

we have fox out during the day a LOT! They have never bothered my alpacas.
But they would have to dig under or crawl over, Never have, that I know of,
but we check the perimeter fence regularly.
carolyn

5395 w. 1275 s
Cedar City, Utah. 84720
phone # 435-865-2697
Fax # 435-865-1225
Cell # 435-233-0636
email Meadowsranch435@aol.com
website _www.freewebs.com/meadowsranch_
(http://www.freewebs.com/meadowsranch)
**************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news &
more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt
p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001)

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] AOBA membership - is the truth out there?

Oh shoot, sorry those numbers didn't display right!I didn't even use
tabs, I put 10 spaces between the state and each #... but it condensed
them into single spaces! Here, I'll try again.

Heather

-----ARI-----AOBA
AK-----60-----6
AL-----65-----26
AR-----46-----16
AZ-----202-----65
CA-----957-----321
CO-----796-----306
CT-----128-----49
DC-----3-----0
DE-----15-----4
FL-----272-----82
GA-----166-----58
HI-----10-----3
IA-----139-----36
ID-----169-----54
IL-----278-----116
IN-----305-----114
KS-----140-----54
KY-----197-----79
LA-----24-----9
MA-----168-----49
MD-----229-----72
ME-----153-----65
MI-----497-----181
MN-----186-----74
MO-----221-----77
MS-----23-----8
MT-----112-----32
NC-----203-----74
ND-----10-----4
NE-----66-----20
NH-----118-----47
NJ-----227-----87
NM-----173-----59
NV-----72-----23
NY-----600-----238
OH-----1,110-----436
OK-----92-----37
OR-----532-----183
PA-----590-----264
RI-----24-----12
SC-----70-----32
SD-----14-----4
TN-----166-----74
TX-----348-----147
UT-----104-----43
VA-----385-----195
VT-----130-----56
WA-----702-----293
WI-----351-----143
WV-----91-----36
WY-----66-----19

total-----11805-----3693

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[AlpacaTalk] AOBA membership - is the truth out there?

So here I was, just looking around at some numbers I found at AOBA's
own website and at ARI's. Check this out. Each state has about 3 times
as many breeders as are AOBA members. Not all ARI breeder codes are
current breeders, but I have no way to break those numbers out. If
that's not interesting enough, look at the total of current AOBA
members. I pasted this list into Excel and ran the auto-sum function.
Excel says the total is 3693. AOBA says the total is 4484.
https://www.alpacaowners.com/stats.asp

So they're telling us AOBA is growing all the time, we have more
members than ever, yet their own numbers dispute that. And, privately,
they talk to members and ask what they feel can be done to get back
lost members. Hmmm.

So I sent my sliding scale membership fee schedule to the AOBA board
and suggested that this might get back those lost members, and may well
grow the membership. No one will join if they get no value from it. A
small breeder like myself can budget for maybe 2 shows per year. It's
more cost effective for me to pay the $75 per show. Yet since I want to
volunteer for my affiliate and serve as fleece show superintendent, I
am forced to pay the $125 farm membership and $50 show division fee.
Costs me money to volunteer. Something about that just isn't right. But
anyway, I got two responses already, and as basically blown off.
Surprise!

ARI AOBA
AK 60 6
AL 65 26
AR 46 16
AZ 202 65
CA 957 321
CO 796 306
CT 128 49
DC 3
DE 15 4
FL 272 82
GA 166 58
HI 10 3
IA 139 36
ID 169 54
IL 278 116
IN 305 114
KS 140 54
KY 197 79
LA 24 9
MA 168 49
MD 229 72
ME 153 65
MI 497 181
MN 186 74
MO 221 77
MS 23 8
MT 112 32
NC 203 74
ND 10 4
NE 66 20
NH 118 47
NJ 227 87
NM 173 59
NV 72 23
NY 600 238
OH 1,110 436
OK 92 37
OR 532 183
PA 590 264
RI 24 12
SC 70 32
SD 14 4
TN 166 74
TX 348 147
UT 104 43
VA 385 195
VT 130 56
WA 702 293
WI 351 143
WV 91 36
WY 66 19

total 11805 3693

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Need help buying alpacas

hi Carla - i'm very sorry to hear about your health problems - it's frustrating when our body's won't keep up with our dreams. i had a couple of thoughts after reading your email:
- gelded fibre boys are good pets and their fleece is valuable
- 1 or 2 outstanding registered females would give you your showing experience and you could breed (someone else's stud) out if you wanted crias
- some alpacas are smaller in size and easier to handle physically
But personality is so important in every case - you want to make sure the animals you choose are people friendly - visit and spend time with the animals before you lay down any money and be sure the people you buy from are ones you want an ongoing relationship with.
I have health issues too, and am doing alright with my alpacas - so follow your dream and you'll find ways to manage
good luck
Wendy
DreamWeaer Alpacas
BC
----- Original Message -----
From: Patty Mattingly
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Need help buying alpacas

Carla,
I still believe that there is more value in buying registered alpacas than
unregistered alpacas. You would be able to show and participate in 4-H and
fleece shows with your registered alpacas. There are many affordable alpaca
deals out there. Go visit the animals and buy the ones that appeal to you
from people you feel comfortable working with. The person you buy from
should be a person you would feel comfortable calling at anytime. It would
be better to buy 3 that you LOVE than 6 that are "just okay" in my humble
opinion.

Patty Mattingly
Nobella Alpacas
"Royal Treatment Reigns"
Leonardtown, MD
(240)925-6959
http://www.nobellaalpacas.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carla Martin" <CARLA0@aol.com>
To: <AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:04 PM
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Need help buying alpacas

Hello.
I'm having mixed feelings and need help from experienced alpaca
owners. I had wanted to start a therapy farm.but after getting sick
and now dealing with the possibility of loosing my eye sight, and
joint problems..I know there is now way I could travel with these
beautiful animals.. I also know there is no way I can live without
them!
Wed the 19th is my 50th B-day :O), also my husbands B-day too! My
husband is so loving he has asked me if I would like to purchase 4-6
for the love of them and for maybe 4H on our 1 acre land with his
help.
I found an alpaca farm that has too many females and has a wonderful
deal ..Females listed less than 3,000, 18 months financing and will
board them for free until next April 2009.
I have also looked on line and found many males and females that are
not registered for A LOT less than 1,000.
So. what would be better.after reading the post on AOBA, and the
economy that I believe will take years to recover.what is best to
buy? I know that any cria born unregistered would be difficult to
sell..or I believe it would.maybe not to a 4H farm?
I REALLY wanted to show one; even when I was going for the therapy
program.but without Reg I know I cannot.if they are to be pets will
it really matter if I just want the fiber?
So confused anyone has this problem or knows of simple answer?
Thank you in advance
I hope it is ok I also posted this on another site for help
Carla Martin
Bedrock Acres
Greenville SC 29609
8642324599

------------------------------------

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respect and civility.Yahoo! Groups Links

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] Need help buying alpacas

Carla,
I still believe that there is more value in buying registered alpacas than
unregistered alpacas. You would be able to show and participate in 4-H and
fleece shows with your registered alpacas. There are many affordable alpaca
deals out there. Go visit the animals and buy the ones that appeal to you
from people you feel comfortable working with. The person you buy from
should be a person you would feel comfortable calling at anytime. It would
be better to buy 3 that you LOVE than 6 that are "just okay" in my humble
opinion.

Patty Mattingly
Nobella Alpacas
"Royal Treatment Reigns"
Leonardtown, MD
(240)925-6959
http://www.nobellaalpacas.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carla Martin" <CARLA0@aol.com>
To: <AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:04 PM
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Need help buying alpacas

Hello.
I'm having mixed feelings and need help from experienced alpaca
owners. I had wanted to start a therapy farm.but after getting sick
and now dealing with the possibility of loosing my eye sight, and
joint problems..I know there is now way I could travel with these
beautiful animals.. I also know there is no way I can live without
them!
Wed the 19th is my 50th B-day :O), also my husbands B-day too! My
husband is so loving he has asked me if I would like to purchase 4-6
for the love of them and for maybe 4H on our 1 acre land with his
help.
I found an alpaca farm that has too many females and has a wonderful
deal ..Females listed less than 3,000, 18 months financing and will
board them for free until next April 2009.
I have also looked on line and found many males and females that are
not registered for A LOT less than 1,000.
So. what would be better.after reading the post on AOBA, and the
economy that I believe will take years to recover.what is best to
buy? I know that any cria born unregistered would be difficult to
sell..or I believe it would.maybe not to a 4H farm?
I REALLY wanted to show one; even when I was going for the therapy
program.but without Reg I know I cannot.if they are to be pets will
it really matter if I just want the fiber?
So confused anyone has this problem or knows of simple answer?
Thank you in advance
I hope it is ok I also posted this on another site for help
Carla Martin
Bedrock Acres
Greenville SC 29609
8642324599

------------------------------------

Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily
endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose
of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired.
It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with
respect and civility.Yahoo! Groups Links

__._,_.___
Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not necessarily endorsed or approved by Yahoo! or the moderator of this group. The purpose of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be aired. It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with respect and civility.
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[AlpacaTalk] Need help buying alpacas

HelloÂ…
I'm having mixed feelings and need help from experienced alpaca
owners. I had wanted to start a therapy farmÂ…but after getting sick
and now dealing with the possibility of loosing my eye sight, and
joint problemsÂ….I know there is now way I could travel with these
beautiful animals.. I also know there is no way I can live without
them!
Wed the 19th is my 50th B-day :O), also my husbands B-day too! My
husband is so loving he has asked me if I would like to purchase 4-6
for the love of them and for maybe 4H on our 1 acre land with his
help.
I found an alpaca farm that has too many females and has a wonderful
deal ..Females listed less than 3,000, 18 months financing and will
board them for free until next April 2009.
I have also looked on line and found many males and females that are
not registered for A LOT less than 1,000.
So. what would be betterÂ…after reading the post on AOBA, and the
economy that I believe will take years to recoverÂ…what is best to
buy? I know that any cria born unregistered would be difficult to
sell..or I believe it wouldÂ…maybe not to a 4H farm?
I REALLY wanted to show one; even when I was going for the therapy
programÂ…but without Reg I know I cannotÂ…if they are to be pets will
it really matter if I just want the fiber?
So confused anyone has this problem or knows of simple answer?
Thank you in advance
I hope it is ok I also posted this on another site for help
Carla Martin
Bedrock Acres
Greenville SC 29609
8642324599

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[AlpacaTalk] Bobcat!

<<I've gotten slightly more practiucal since. We had to shoot a bobcat
that was IN MY BARN!!! the other night. My bf and a friend did skin
that and now it's (ugh!) in my freezer until we find a tannery.
Still, the emotional connection isn't there...
>>

OK, speaking of bobcats, just before/almost dusk last night, standing at
the kitchen sink I saw something I could not quite identify walking the
back horse pasture fence. Alarmed enough to grab my binoculars and lo
and behold just as I feared it was a sizable bobcat strolling just
inside the fence line headed towards the woods. Holy cow. I no longer
have any doubts about what happened to my duck and alpacas this summer
(the horrible neck wounds and the eye slashed a few weeks later).

I remembered Morgen saying this (above); but this guy was gone before I
could have gotten it together to even find my gun, ammo, and get out
there. It's been so long since I shot a gun anyway I couldn't have hit
him. But not sure I have could actually done it anyway. I have never
killed a living creature and used to care for exotic cats at an exotic
animal sanctuary in S FL. But if it had to come down to a choice
between my alpacas and the bobcat, well that is a no brainer.

Every outside light I have was left on last night. I didn't sleep a
wink and couldn't wait to get up and out this morning to check on
everyone. All is well. But I will not rest easy now. Back to
considering pasture dogs; but what info I gathered this summer after the
severe injuries was so mixed as to make to stop considering. Wonder if
just some yard dogs from the Rescue would work good enough, and not risk
having something actually in with the livestock?

I am wondering about seeing him out and about before dark? Once I saw a
fox cross my property in broad daylight and was told he was likely rabid
as foxes don't normally come out in the daytime; or that he was starving
and seeking food for him/herself or babies.

Warmly, Janice

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