alpacas: 06/03/08

[AlpacaTalk] Re: 6.8 lb cria 4 days past due Help!

Heather, thanks for the info. I went to my feed store today and
bought nutri-drench and a prichard lamb nipple. They both worked
miracles. After the drench my guy took 4 ozs. of cow colostrum and
urinated and defecated. I also went out this morning to find my other
girl delivering. She delivered a healthy baby girl. Thank all of you
for your help and support my boy is doing good so fair and thank God
most of all.

Everyone have a blessed day.
Thanks again,

Wendy Cruz
Humming B Alpacas
Lebanon, TN

--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Heather Zeleny <alpacatalk@...>
wrote:
>
> "A high quality colostrum supplement, plus an effective appetite
> stimulator containing special proteins, vitamins and lactic
> acid-producing bacteria in an easy-to-use syringe. The syringe
contains
> 2 doses and provides a quick and easy solution to getting newborns
up
> and nursing as soon as possible. Give as soon after birth as
possible."
> http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=cd12634d-1392-4ad3-
8fc3
> -61fb530f25d3
>
> I gave the new little one a dose before she had nursed as we had
her
> under the blow dryer. It may have delayed nursing from mama by a
few
> minutes, but it gave her the energy to get up and around.
>
> Many feed stores will carry it and/or Nutri-Drench
> "Goes to work fast! Use with weak newborns, ketosis, scours,
pneumonia,
> twin, etc. Formulated to put glucose, vitamins, trace minerals and
> amino acids into the bloodstream within minutes. Specially
formulated
> for sheep and goats that are off of feed, newborns and kids.
Administer
> 1 oz. per 100 lb."
> http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=03e60cc0-0f86-419e-
8fae
> -7e4a5464f48c
>
> We get a whole lot of our farm supplies from Valleyvet, they have
> really great prices and free shipping on many items. Jeffersvet
and
> Horse.com are two other online retailers I recommend.
>
> Heather
>
> On Jun 2, 2008, at 11:18 PM, Barb Troje wrote:
>
> > what is in nursemate?
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 12:04 AM, Heather Zeleny <
> > alpacatalk@...> wrote:
> >
> > > I'll also add that getting some Nursemate for kids or lambs is
a
> > very
> > > good idea. I forget which pre-eminent alpaca vet recommends
it, but
> > I
> > > agree! Give as soon after delivery as possible. I had a cria
that
> > > appeared great and fine, did well, then after a week he seemed
to
> > slow
> > > down. I gave him the nursemate and it perked him right up and
at 10
> > > months of age he settled a couple of girls in his pasture! We
just
> > had
> > > a cria born yesterday in the evening, I gave her a dose of
Nursemate
> > > and she's doing great!
> > >
> > > There are other very good products for new lambs and kinds on
the
> > > market that go by the names of Nutri-Drench, and there was
another
> > one
> > > that I can't think of right now.
> > >
> > > Certainly your little one is dysmature and as Chuck said, has
an
> > uphill
> > > battle. Hopefully a combination of everyone's great
suggestions will
> > > work! Best of luck to you and your little boy!
> > >
> > > Heather
> > >
> > > Heather Zeleny
> > > White Lotus Alpacas
> > > (formerly West Wind Alpacas)
> > > Eugene, OR
> > >
> > > 541.895.0964
> > >
> > > Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
> > > http://www.alpacanation.com/whitelotus.asp
> > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join
> > >
> > > Alpaca Marketplace & Fleece Show - AOBA Certified
> > > Entry deadline extended to June 7, 2008! There's still time!
> > > June 20-22, 2008
> > > Lane County Fairgrounds Horse Arena
> > > Eugene, Oregon
> > > http://www.evaa-alpacas.org/
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jun 2, 2008, at 10:47 PM, Barb Troje wrote:
> > >
> > > > I might make a little tent of aluminum foil to reflect his
body
> > heat
> > > > and the
> > > > heating pad back on him if it is hard to keep his temp up
> > > >
> > > > careful with the Karo. I just overdid it myself and gave my
cria
> > > > diarhea. Dr
> > > > Ruthanne suggested stopping the karo after the first poop. I
am
> > > > feeding my
> > > > wall baby a mix of whole milk and whipping cream for caloric
> > > > boost.Since she
> > > > had a difficult delivery I tubed her the first 24 hours to
be
> > sure I
> > > > got the
> > > > colostrum in. If your boy is getting weak have your vet
teach you
> > how
> > > > to
> > > > tube him if you dont know how.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 7:53 PM, Shirley Dillon
> > > > <shirl.temple@... <shirl.temple%40verizon.net>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Didn't Rick Horn have a 29l day cria in 2006? If my memory
is
> > > > correct,
> > > > > it
> > > > > was very small and he bottle fed it till it was strong
enough to
> > > > nurse on
> > > > > its own. I think he named it Perseverance. As I remember
it
> > thrived
> > > > in his
> > > > > care. Maybe someone can talk to Rick or Patti Horn for
more
> > advice.
> > > > >
> > > > > Shirley Dillon
> > > > >
> > > > > Alpacas of Gemini Farm
> > > > > Basking Ridge, NJ 07920
> > > > >
> > > > > www.alpacanation.com/geminifarm.asp
> > > > > 908-647-2995
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Barbara Troje MD
> > > > Nizhoni ALpacas , Las Vegas, NM
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Barbara Troje MD
> > Nizhoni ALpacas , Las Vegas, NM
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] 6.8 lb cria 4 days past due Help!

Just wanted to chime in on this situation.

This is a very small cria.

Questions for management:

What was the delivery like?

Was it a normal spontaneous delivery in a timely fashion or was the head
stuck in place for awhile. Was intervention needed? Was the cria delivered
into a warm environment or to a wet/cool/over heated climate?

Even short exposure right after birth to a cold wet environment will lower a
cria's temp enough to cause shock.

On a light/white cria signs will be an increased pink redness of the mucous
membranes or ear tips or around eyes, darker animals are harder to tell but
will have bright dark red mucousal tissue. Other signs of shock are
repeated yawning, failure to remain upright, low body temp (below 100 F)
etc. Keeping the cria warm getting temp to 100 or so, keeping the
hypoglycemia at bay and well hydrated (after making sure the temp is up over
100...never feed a cria with a lower temp - you are adding to the problem,
warm them and stroke a little corn syrup on the gum to revive when the
hypoglycemic crashes hit) are your first priorities.

After 24 hours when you have initially stabilised you have the second wave
of complications. Infection, sepsis, constipation, meconium impaction,
immunity deficiency syndrome, etc.

If your at risk cria has not pooped you need to give a small (pediatric
sized) enema that has been warmed to 100-102 degrees F. GENTLY squeeze a
portion (could be as little as 1/4 or 1/3 of bottle) inside the rectum after
inserting well lubricated tube about an inch or so...never force it
...possibly more in a larger cria.

This elimination often perks them right up.

Watch the colostrum temp. Warm it in a bath of warm/hot water and try to
make sure it is 100-104 F when you give it. Better to warm small amounts
frequently than re-warm bigger volumes or let it cool. It really does help
to make sure it stays as close to mamma temp as possible.

IT is not uncommon for traumatic delivery or hypothermic/hypoglycemic shock
to cause swelling in the brain. You can often notice that the eyelids will
appear swollen (Like they underwent a round of a boxing match) in humans I
note this as periorbital edema.

In the farms I am assisting with we have had 2 crias this spring who have
had IV therapy with ringers and prednisolone (solu cortef) 1.0 mg/kg which
helped reduce the swelling and got them back on track. (both of these crias
crashed for different reasons, one found hypothermic during a storm weighed
20 pounds, the other had a labour arrest and assisted delivery along with
hypothermic shock and weighed 16 pounds).

We have also had a 12 pound dysmature cria that had an arrested labour,
delayed nursing etc., he crashed a lot then seemed fine. On day 5 I was
called he was gasping and in obvious distress. The owner and I rushed him
to the clinic with the vet speeding to meet us, he was panting open mouthed
in my arms as I tied to assist him. In spite of my efforts which included
CPR and respiratory support he died about 5 mins before the vet arrived. The
vet had seen him the evening before. SItting up in his cria coat still
small, but drinking a warm bottle. He went south at about 4 am. It happens
fast.

He did not get (or seem to require) the IV therapy as he would revive with
stimulation and we could get him to drink.

WE've also had another cria this spring who has bounced out like normal and
required nothing but a coat and some temp checking. (It has been unusually
cold with rain and ice pellets this last month)

I write all of this because the more you read about the easier it will be to
recognise this stuff if it happens.

Dr. Norm Evans Field Manual will save the life of one of your animals one
day without a doubt.

My vet(s) grab for it whenever they are called (my copy of course, with all
of the undelines and notes from past experiences). Buy, beg or borrow it.

The stuff your vet needs to know (How much of what steroid does a crashing
shocky baby get and what solution to mix it with, why NOT to use powdered
colostrum on an at risk neonate etc)

Heated barley/oat bags to help the cria stay sternal (which is the optimal
position for digestion etc for these guys), a close watching eye, regular
temp checks, and keeping the dam close by will all help.

Have bloodwork done to check for total protein (since your baby did not get
camelid colostrum) and consider the potential need for plasma transfusion
for immunity.

I hope this has been helpful, now disclaimers:

I am not a vet. I am a nurse practitioner/midwife who has an alpaca farm. I
also provide support for a collective of local alpaca farms (preemie
births, post term births, assorted problems where having someone who has
some basic medical skills might help until the vet arrives) What I tell you
is from my experience, or education and does not replace the knowledge of
your vet.

Hang in there...

Dar Long
Serenity Suris
Canada

On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Heather Zeleny <
alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com> wrote:

> "A high quality colostrum supplement, plus an effective appetite
> stimulator containing special proteins, vitamins and lactic
> acid-producing bacteria in an easy-to-use syringe. The syringe contains
> 2 doses and provides a quick and easy solution to getting newborns up
> and nursing as soon as possible. Give as soon after birth as possible."
> http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=cd12634d-1392-4ad3-8fc3
> -61fb530f25d3
>
> I gave the new little one a dose before she had nursed as we had her
> under the blow dryer. It may have delayed nursing from mama by a few
> minutes, but it gave her the energy to get up and around.
>
> Many feed stores will carry it and/or Nutri-Drench
> "Goes to work fast! Use with weak newborns, ketosis, scours, pneumonia,
> twin, etc. Formulated to put glucose, vitamins, trace minerals and
> amino acids into the bloodstream within minutes. Specially formulated
> for sheep and goats that are off of feed, newborns and kids. Administer
> 1 oz. per 100 lb."
> http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=03e60cc0-0f86-419e-8fae
> -7e4a5464f48c
>
> We get a whole lot of our farm supplies from Valleyvet, they have
> really great prices and free shipping on many items. Jeffersvet and
> Horse.com are two other online retailers I recommend.
>
> Heather
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2008, at 11:18 PM, Barb Troje wrote:
>
> > what is in nursemate?
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 12:04 AM, Heather Zeleny <
> > alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com <alpacatalk%40westwindalpacas.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > > I'll also add that getting some Nursemate for kids or lambs is a
> > very
> > > good idea. I forget which pre-eminent alpaca vet recommends it, but
> > I
> > > agree! Give as soon after delivery as possible. I had a cria that
> > > appeared great and fine, did well, then after a week he seemed to
> > slow
> > > down. I gave him the nursemate and it perked him right up and at 10
> > > months of age he settled a couple of girls in his pasture! We just
> > had
> > > a cria born yesterday in the evening, I gave her a dose of Nursemate
> > > and she's doing great!
> > >
> > > There are other very good products for new lambs and kinds on the
> > > market that go by the names of Nutri-Drench, and there was another
> > one
> > > that I can't think of right now.
> > >
> > > Certainly your little one is dysmature and as Chuck said, has an
> > uphill
> > > battle. Hopefully a combination of everyone's great suggestions will
> > > work! Best of luck to you and your little boy!
> > >
> > > Heather
> > >
> > > Heather Zeleny
> > > White Lotus Alpacas
> > > (formerly West Wind Alpacas)
> > > Eugene, OR
> > >
> > > 541.895.0964
> > >
> > > Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
> > > http://www.alpacanation.com/whitelotus.asp
> > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join
> > >
> > > Alpaca Marketplace & Fleece Show - AOBA Certified
> > > Entry deadline extended to June 7, 2008! There's still time!
> > > June 20-22, 2008
> > > Lane County Fairgrounds Horse Arena
> > > Eugene, Oregon
> > > http://www.evaa-alpacas.org/
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jun 2, 2008, at 10:47 PM, Barb Troje wrote:
> > >
> > > > I might make a little tent of aluminum foil to reflect his body
> > heat
> > > > and the
> > > > heating pad back on him if it is hard to keep his temp up
> > > >
> > > > careful with the Karo. I just overdid it myself and gave my cria
> > > > diarhea. Dr
> > > > Ruthanne suggested stopping the karo after the first poop. I am
> > > > feeding my
> > > > wall baby a mix of whole milk and whipping cream for caloric
> > > > boost.Since she
> > > > had a difficult delivery I tubed her the first 24 hours to be
> > sure I
> > > > got the
> > > > colostrum in. If your boy is getting weak have your vet teach you
> > how
> > > > to
> > > > tube him if you dont know how.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 7:53 PM, Shirley Dillon
> > > > <shirl.temple@verizon.net <shirl.temple%40verizon.net><shirl.temple%
> 40verizon.net>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Didn't Rick Horn have a 29l day cria in 2006? If my memory is
> > > > correct,
> > > > > it
> > > > > was very small and he bottle fed it till it was strong enough to
> > > > nurse on
> > > > > its own. I think he named it Perseverance. As I remember it
> > thrived
> > > > in his
> > > > > care. Maybe someone can talk to Rick or Patti Horn for more
> > advice.
> > > > >
> > > > > Shirley Dillon
> > > > >
> > > > > Alpacas of Gemini Farm
> > > > > Basking Ridge, NJ 07920
> > > > >
> > > > > www.alpacanation.com/geminifarm.asp
> > > > > 908-647-2995
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Barbara Troje MD
> > > > Nizhoni ALpacas , Las Vegas, NM
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Barbara Troje MD
> > Nizhoni ALpacas , Las Vegas, NM
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___

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Re: [AlpacaTalk] 6.8 lb cria 4 days past due Help!

"A high quality colostrum supplement, plus an effective appetite
stimulator containing special proteins, vitamins and lactic
acid-producing bacteria in an easy-to-use syringe. The syringe contains
2 doses and provides a quick and easy solution to getting newborns up
and nursing as soon as possible. Give as soon after birth as possible."
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=cd12634d-1392-4ad3-8fc3
-61fb530f25d3

I gave the new little one a dose before she had nursed as we had her
under the blow dryer. It may have delayed nursing from mama by a few
minutes, but it gave her the energy to get up and around.

Many feed stores will carry it and/or Nutri-Drench
"Goes to work fast! Use with weak newborns, ketosis, scours, pneumonia,
twin, etc. Formulated to put glucose, vitamins, trace minerals and
amino acids into the bloodstream within minutes. Specially formulated
for sheep and goats that are off of feed, newborns and kids. Administer
1 oz. per 100 lb."
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=03e60cc0-0f86-419e-8fae
-7e4a5464f48c

We get a whole lot of our farm supplies from Valleyvet, they have
really great prices and free shipping on many items. Jeffersvet and
Horse.com are two other online retailers I recommend.

Heather

On Jun 2, 2008, at 11:18 PM, Barb Troje wrote:

> what is in nursemate?
>
> On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 12:04 AM, Heather Zeleny <
> alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com> wrote:
>
> > I'll also add that getting some Nursemate for kids or lambs is a
> very
> > good idea. I forget which pre-eminent alpaca vet recommends it, but
> I
> > agree! Give as soon after delivery as possible. I had a cria that
> > appeared great and fine, did well, then after a week he seemed to
> slow
> > down. I gave him the nursemate and it perked him right up and at 10
> > months of age he settled a couple of girls in his pasture! We just
> had
> > a cria born yesterday in the evening, I gave her a dose of Nursemate
> > and she's doing great!
> >
> > There are other very good products for new lambs and kinds on the
> > market that go by the names of Nutri-Drench, and there was another
> one
> > that I can't think of right now.
> >
> > Certainly your little one is dysmature and as Chuck said, has an
> uphill
> > battle. Hopefully a combination of everyone's great suggestions will
> > work! Best of luck to you and your little boy!
> >
> > Heather
> >
> > Heather Zeleny
> > White Lotus Alpacas
> > (formerly West Wind Alpacas)
> > Eugene, OR
> >
> > 541.895.0964
> >
> > Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
> > http://www.alpacanation.com/whitelotus.asp
> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join
> >
> > Alpaca Marketplace & Fleece Show - AOBA Certified
> > Entry deadline extended to June 7, 2008! There's still time!
> > June 20-22, 2008
> > Lane County Fairgrounds Horse Arena
> > Eugene, Oregon
> > http://www.evaa-alpacas.org/
> >
> >
> > On Jun 2, 2008, at 10:47 PM, Barb Troje wrote:
> >
> > > I might make a little tent of aluminum foil to reflect his body
> heat
> > > and the
> > > heating pad back on him if it is hard to keep his temp up
> > >
> > > careful with the Karo. I just overdid it myself and gave my cria
> > > diarhea. Dr
> > > Ruthanne suggested stopping the karo after the first poop. I am
> > > feeding my
> > > wall baby a mix of whole milk and whipping cream for caloric
> > > boost.Since she
> > > had a difficult delivery I tubed her the first 24 hours to be
> sure I
> > > got the
> > > colostrum in. If your boy is getting weak have your vet teach you
> how
> > > to
> > > tube him if you dont know how.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 7:53 PM, Shirley Dillon
> > > <shirl.temple@verizon.net <shirl.temple%40verizon.net>>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Didn't Rick Horn have a 29l day cria in 2006? If my memory is
> > > correct,
> > > > it
> > > > was very small and he bottle fed it till it was strong enough to
> > > nurse on
> > > > its own. I think he named it Perseverance. As I remember it
> thrived
> > > in his
> > > > care. Maybe someone can talk to Rick or Patti Horn for more
> advice.
> > > >
> > > > Shirley Dillon
> > > >
> > > > Alpacas of Gemini Farm
> > > > Basking Ridge, NJ 07920
> > > >
> > > > www.alpacanation.com/geminifarm.asp
> > > > 908-647-2995
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Barbara Troje MD
> > > Nizhoni ALpacas , Las Vegas, NM
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Barbara Troje MD
> Nizhoni ALpacas , Las Vegas, NM
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___

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Messages | Files | Photos | Links

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MARKETPLACE

You rock! Blockbuster wants to give you a complimentary trial of - Blockbuster Total Access.

Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

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Tuesday, June 03, 2008

[AlpacaTalk] Re: 6.8 lb cria 4 days past due Help!

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