Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Female fiber/pet animals wanted

Hello everyone,

Now that is a shame that you will not be posting any more to this
group. I have watched this thread with great interest. Your questions
and the responses you have received have highlighted just how easily we
mis-communicate with each other and email is notorious for these
misunderstandings.

However, it is a great shame that you took offence at the postings in
reply to yours, since from my perspective they did not seem to be rude
(apart from Elwin's last posting, which was blunt and unecessarily
rude), but rather tried to convey the sense of seriousness, and the
importance of integrity and responsibility that alpaca breeders/owners
feel for their alpaca, who are indeed a very special animal. If you
remember how you feel about your sheep, enough to travel 200 miles in
the night, then you will have some measure of the strength of feeling in
the alpaca world, for alpaca. Every new alpaca enquiry must be met with
questions about intended care, breeding, etc., and the environment and
future into which they sell their alpaca. I might add this is
particularly important for the pet market, since animals and their care
can easily disappear from sight without an idea of the welfare they
might receive. Realistically speaking, the world is full of hidden
cruelties and human blindness.

Every breeder who sells animals in the alpaca world carries and holds a
responsibility not only to the animals, but to the new owners, who will
need considerable support and advice when setting out on this road. The
fundamental importance of the right animals going to the right owner,
for their intended use (breeding or otherwise), should not have to be
justified, but simply understood as the breeders right to question, to
assess and to determine the best possible outcome, for the animals, the
potential new owners and the alpaca 'industry' (I hate that word) as a
whole.

If you were to visit a rescue centre for dogs and want an animal to take
home with you, there would be questions and a vetting process that takes
place to ensure that your intentions and capabilities are such that the
match would be a happy one for you and especially for the animal. I am
left feeling puzzled then, about your quickness to take offence. There
really was no need, although you may want to think about that, as I am
left thinking about it and asking myself - 'if there is a fence around
you that keeps the questions of breeders at bay and fends them off, then
how is a breeder going to feel safe selling animals to you?' The alpaca
world is about openness, helpfulness and sharing the joy in these
particular animals as they are so uniquely special in many ways.

It might instead be more fruitful to have the viewpoint of 'learning'
and listen to the experience of those and the concerns of those who were
only trying to 'question', and ascertain your intent. Perhaps a little
clumsily in some cases, but nevertheless as a right to protect and
inform you, so that you are better able to make your choices about which
kind of female you are looking for and whether your original ideas about
it might need to change in the light of new learning and the shared
experience of those who have animals to sell, who have the
responsibility and the right to question you.

You may not even read this of course if you have already 'left' this
group, but the breeders and alpaca owners will read it, so all is not
lost. Remember your right to ask good questions, but perhaps remember
too that 'how' you ask your questions and what questions you ask are
important, and that email is a very bad medium for conveying the meaning
behind your words.

Best Wishes to all
Amanda Poyner
Barton Alpacas
Somerset, England
Raritan Way Farm wrote:

>First of all this will be our last post to this site. Now I never said I wanted somebody to give me anything for FREE I dont know were you got that idea And I was under the belief that here in the USA that when you bought and paid for something it was yours to do with as you wish. Thanks for your time I'm intitled to my opinion as you are yours.
>
>Heather Zeleny - West Wind Alpacas <westwindalpacas@comcast.net> wrote: Well said!
>
>Heather
>
>--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Elwin Bagley" <Gapacaman@t...> wrote:
>
>
>>Robert and Tina; I wish to join the other careing members of this
>>group in apologizing for appearing to be hostile.
>>
>>I say again, You know that you are caring and honest, You know that
>>you will treat all you animals well has you have proved in the past.
>>But, you are not in control of the future. You cannot control what
>>will happen to the alpacas that you are buying if something should
>>go wrong.
>>I beleive that your motives are honest, but I must continue to watch
>>over my alpacas that I consider a gift of God.
>>I tried to make a point and apoloize by telling about my lame female
>>alpaca that I cannot give away because she can still be bred, but my
>>vet and I think that she should not be bred anymore.
>>I will try to explain in detail just why I will not, and most
>>responsible alpaca owners will not sell a breeding female to you and
>>beleive your statement that you do not intend to breed her.
>>Suppose I gave you my pet, and I mean gentle pet female who has very
>>good fiber and a lame leg.
>>Then you had financial reverses and had to leave your farm and sell
>>or give away all you animals.
>>Almost any new owner of my lame female could consult with many vets
>>who would say that she is healthy enough for breeding, in fact
>>a vet and alpaca owner has told me that she is healthy enough for
>>breeding.
>>Now the scenario unfolds to find the new owenr of my lame dam in
>>control.
>>They decide to breed her and she has three more prize crias, then
>>they decide to sell her to a start up know nothing farm and she has
>>three more crias.
>>When does the cruelty (IMHO) stop??
>>
>>Now, I think that you should stop feeling hurt and thank all the
>>honest careing people in this group for a lesson learned.
>>
>>Elwin Bagley
>>www.windyhillalpacafarm.com
>>
>>
>>--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com, Raritan Way Farm
>><llama20042004@y...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>My husband and I are honest folks. We are both from farm familes
>>>
>>>
>>and come from families where a handshake and your word was all that
>>was needed. So you see we are well aware all the care animals
>>require.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Recently we had a premature lamb born that was going to need
>>>
>>>
>>more care than we could provide for her. We drove 200 miles down
>>and 200 miles back to take her to a lady who raises baby lambs so
>>she would have a greater chance of survival. We didn't make a dime
>>on her. absolutely nothing. But it didn't matter she needed to be
>>cared for. This was on a Sunday night and we both had to be up for
>>work early Monday morning. Alot of people would have just let her
>>die. So you see my husband and I are caring devoted animal people.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Radched@a... wrote:
>>> In a message dated 12/18/2005 3:07:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>>>llama20042004@y... writes:
>>>I do not understand your motives for being hostile towards perhaps
>>>
>>>
>>a future
>>
>>
>>>client.
>>> I do have the money to invest in other "big money" alpacas
>>>
>>>
>>should we choose
>>
>>
>>>too.
>>> Too bad you will never know if you could have been the person we
>>>
>>>
>>purchased
>>
>>
>>>them from.
>>>I don't think anyone was trying to be hostile or make you feel
>>>
>>>
>>unwelcome. I
>>
>>
>>>have heard in the past that people have persued non-registered (or
>>>
>>>
>>Canadian
>>
>>
>>>registered) females with the intent of breeding them and
>>>
>>>
>>registering the crias
>>
>>
>>>so they can sell them for the market value. It can't be done with
>>>
>>>
>>ARI - the
>>
>>
>>>registry is closed. Canada does have a "breed up" program where
>>>
>>>
>>you can bred an
>>
>>
>>>unregistered female with a registered male, and eventually get the
>>>
>>>
>>future
>>
>>
>>>offspring to be 15/16th "pure" and then they are registerable with
>>>
>>>
>>their
>>
>>
>>>registry. We just want to make sure that is clear, not
>>>
>>>
>>necessarily aimed at you, but
>>
>>
>>>at anyone who might try to do it in the future.
>>>
>>>Heidi Christensen
>>>Graham WA
>>>
>>>
>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Raritan Way Farm
>>> Robert and Tina Moore
>>> 435 Hwy 327
>>> Lebanon Ky, 40033
>>> lama20042004@yahoo,com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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> Raritan Way Farm
> Robert and Tina Moore
> 435 Hwy 327
> Lebanon Ky, 40033
> lama20042004@yahoo,com
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