Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: alpaca down/can't rise - Dr Steve

 

it could be so many things, but first Ivormectin is a preventive NOT the treatment for Meningeal worm. In fact it can do more harm than good once the alpaca has contacted it. I'm going to post some links with really good info on this and treatment if it should be Meningeal worm
http://www.bagendsuris.com/?page_id=269
PEM
http://www.bagendsuris.com/?page_id=735
West Nile research
http://www.alpacaresearchfoundation.org/papers_reports/ARFKutzler.pdf
West Nile can only be truly diagnosed with a blood test.
Treatment is very intensive with my alpacas which didn't make it (it was during one of the first rounds of WN in Colorado). It included 24/7 IV's, intense antibiotics and anti-inflammatories bolstered with DMSO to try and help the brain swelling. This was all based on what was done for horses. Alpacas did not respond as well. Since you do not have a vet to do this, you may try the holistic approach. I don't know anything about it or if it really works. But it was posted as an option on one of my chat sites and in this situation it might be worth a try.
http://www.holisticvetclinic.net/pages/west_nile_holistic_treatment

Hope this helps your time researching a bit.
Wishing you the best of luck,

Tawny Bott  Abra-Cadabra Alpacas  Kiowa, CO.  www.Abra-CadabraAlpacas.com  303-621-9656

On 8/27/2012 4:49 PM, jelizabethfarms1@bellsouth.net wrote:

 

Dr. Steve Hull>>>>


No I have not.  Dr Anderson has recommended against the monthly ivermectin so I stopped doing it several years ago.
Keep ducks in the pasture for snail control and that has done the trick for years.
They get ivermec injection about 2x year.

She got one on Sat as I immediately suspected m-worm.   The deer have been numerous and much closer to the pastures this year than normal.
But since it was front leg issue, and not paralysis I ruled out m-worm in my mind, and began to suspect WNile.
My understanding is that m-worm presents in rear legs first?

Haven't had a chance to do thorough research on what the symptoms are for W Nile, but the mosquitoes are just horrendous here (NW GA) this year.  And I know this is the time of year that is most at risk for WNile, in fact already showing up with frequency in TX and S GA.

She is not depressed, or puny looking.
Alert, good appetite, pooping.   Walks just fine once we get her up.  when she goes down, she is cushed and alert, watching everything with interest, chewing her cud.
Would that be the case with m-worm?

I have not treated for bloat.     The first night I discovered her I sat with her and listened.   I began by massaging her ears and saw that soothed her; then I began to massage her esophagus and got a lot of belching.   I suspected choke, with a build up of gas, so that is what I worked with.....massaging esophagus and belly.   That seemed to give her a lot of comfort; a lot of belching, a lot of gut noise and releasing of gas.  She moaned a good bit and I could tell it was comforting to her.   After a few hours of that, she tried to get up, but could not.   My 14yo and I were able to get her to her feet, with her helping some.   Then she walked out and pooped and walked over to her nighttime pasture.   I thought all was well at that point and that she was down due to pain.

That relief quickly dissipated the following morning.  She may have been gassy for whatever reason, but I knew bloat was not the cause of her not being able to rise on her own.   She seemed much worse, weaker.   Got her up, but she quickly stumbled and went down.   Got her up again and by then the banamine was kicking in I guess and she stayed up for several hours.

It  has been like that since Sat.    I have done no more treatments, just observing, as I do not want to do the wrong thing, nor stress her system.   She is alert, good appetite, pooping and peeing; walking well for several hours, then stumbles and goes down.  She got ivermectin and banamine on Sat AM.

After observing for many hours over the past several days, I feel it is neurological and wanted to do more research on WNile as well as m-worm.   But of course my day has been packed with other obligations and I haven't gotten to the research yet.    I had a case of m-worm here about 10yrs ago and consulted with Dr Pugh at Auburn.   At that time I recall it was massive doses or ivermec and safeguard for about 5 days, but do not recall exactly.   What I have come across so far is that ivermec is now not used for treatment only prevention and Safeguard is the treatment.   I haven't had time to do the math (converting kg to lb and all that) to figure out a dosage for her, and still not sure that is the right way to go.

As previously mentioned I do not have the luxury of a vet that will work with these animals.   My horse vet made it plain long ago she was not interested nor willing "to learn another species".  She will however sell me meds if I tell her what I have been told I need to do.  Heck, she won't even give a rabies shot to my Pyrs, insisting they go into a vet office.....even when I explain to her that I do not have a vehicle to transport a 150# dog (or alpaca) in.   sigh.   That is just the reality I must operate under.

This girl is about 12, has always had strange confirmation in that she carries a very round belly low....always looks preg, but I do not allow any breeding these days (can't afford), and esp not with her.   She is skin and bones up top....hips and backbone.    Has always had very low condition score, but was healthy nonetheless.  Good weight, just in the wrong place!  Her front legs have bad conformation.   She has always been knock kneed and that seems  very pronounced currently - more so than usual it seems to me, but perhaps just because I am staring at her more looking for any clue.

I do not know the symptoms, nor treatment (if any?) for PEM?

It may be wishful thinking, but she seemed stronger this morning.   When we got her up, she took right off to go to her daytime pasture, and stayed up for several hours.   Even this afternoon, grazing out in the yard, she seems much stronger in body and spirit....but still cannot rise on her own, tho she is trying more than she has the past several days.

Thanks for your help Steve.
Janice in NW GA

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