RE: [AlpacaTalk] Re: alpaca down/can't rise - Dr Steve
When did Dr. Anderson tell you this (to not give injected ivermectin
every month)? I think you are using advice that is way, way too old.
In the absence of monthly ivermectin shots, I would strongly suspect M
worm in your area. Get the Evans book and IMMEDIATELY start the
treatment for M worm.
If you don't know the treatment, then tell us and someone will get it
for you. Basically it is massive doses of oral fenbendazole
(Safeguard).
Start now.
Steve
Dr. Steve Hull
Stephen Hull, MS, PhD, Tom Cameron, DVM& families
"a full service alpaca farm including seminars, veterinary consulting
and farm management consulting"
http://timberlakefarms.net
TimberLake Farms, Inc.
12001 East Waterloo Road
Arcadia, OK 73007
405 550-3023 (cell)
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: alpaca down/can't rise - Dr Steve
> From: jelizabethfarms1@bellsouth.net
> Date: Mon, August 27, 2012 5:49 pm
> To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> <<<This is such a pity that neurological issue was not recognized. An
> animal that is down and can't move has neurological issues.
>
> If monthly ivermectin shots were not used (I don't know) then it is
> likely M worm. If not, it is likely polioencephalomalac
> ia (PEM, or
> "polio" for short).
>
> The treatments are well known - just do the right thing and not treat
> for symptoms (like bloat)..
>
> Janice - first question. Have you done monthly ivermectin shots for the
> past six months EVERY month? This should be be FIRST question from your
> vet. Your answer will determine the next questions and treatments.
>
> Steve
>
> Dr. Steve Hull>>>>
>
>
> No I have not. Dr Anderson has recommended against the monthly
> ivermectin so I stopped doing it several years ago.
> Keep ducks in the pasture for snail control and that has done the trick
> for years.
> They get ivermec injection about 2x year.
>
> She got one on Sat as I immediately suspected m-worm. The deer have
> been numerous and much closer to the pastures this year than normal.
> But since it was front leg issue, and not paralysis I ruled out m-worm
> in my mind, and began to suspect WNile.
> My understanding is that m-worm presents in rear legs first?
>
> Haven't had a chance to do thorough research on what the symptoms are
> for W Nile, but the mosquitoes are just horrendous here (NW GA) this
> year. And I know this is the time of year that is most at risk for
> WNile, in fact already showing up with frequency in TX and S GA.
>
> She is not depressed, or puny looking.
> Alert, good appetite, pooping. Walks just fine once we get her up.
> when she goes down, she is cushed and alert, watching everything with
> interest, chewing her cud.
> Would that be the case with m-worm?
>
> I have not treated for bloat. The first night I discovered her I sat
> with her and listened. I began by massaging her ears and saw that
> soothed her; then I began to massage her esophagus and got a lot of
> belching. I suspected choke, with a build up of gas, so that is what I
> worked with.....massaging esophagus and belly. That seemed to give her
> a lot of comfort; a lot of belching, a lot of gut noise and releasing of
> gas. She moaned a good bit and I could tell it was comforting to her.
> After a few hours of that, she tried to get up, but could not. My 14yo
> and I were able to get her to her feet, with her helping some. Then
> she walked out and pooped and walked over to her nighttime pasture. I
> thought all was well at that point and that she was down due to pain.
>
> That relief quickly dissipated the following morning. She may have been
> gassy for whatever reason, but I knew bloat was not the cause of her not
> being able to rise on her own. She seemed much worse, weaker. Got
> her up, but she quickly stumbled and went down. Got her up again and
> by then the banamine was kicking in I guess and she stayed up for
> several hours.
>
> It has been like that since Sat. I have done no more treatments,
> just observing, as I do not want to do the wrong thing, nor stress her
> system. She is alert, good appetite, pooping and peeing; walking well
> for several hours, then stumbles and goes down. She got ivermectin and
> banamine on Sat AM.
>
> After observing for many hours over the past several days, I feel it is
> neurological and wanted to do more research on WNile as well as
> m-worm. But of course my day has been packed with other obligations
> and I haven't gotten to the research yet. I had a case of m-worm here
> about 10yrs ago and consulted with Dr Pugh at Auburn. At that time I
> recall it was massive doses or ivermec and safeguard for about 5 days,
> but do not recall exactly. What I have come across so far is that
> ivermec is now not used for treatment only prevention and Safeguard is
> the treatment. I haven't had time to do the math (converting kg to lb
> and all that) to figure out a dosage for her, and still not sure that is
> the right way to go.
>
> As previously mentioned I do not have the luxury of a vet that will work
> with these animals. My horse vet made it plain long ago she was not
> interested nor willing "to learn another species". She will however
> sell me meds if I tell her what I have been told I need to do. Heck,
> she won't even give a rabies shot to my Pyrs, insisting they go into a
> vet office.....even when I explain to her that I do not have a vehicle
> to transport a 150# dog (or alpaca) in. sigh. That is just the
> reality I must operate under.
>
> This girl is about 12, has always had strange confirmation in that she
> carries a very round belly low....always looks preg, but I do not allow
> any breeding these days (can't afford), and esp not with her. She is
> skin and bones up top....hips and backbone. Has always had very low
> condition score, but was healthy nonetheless. Good weight, just in the
> wrong place! Her front legs have bad conformation. She has always
> been knock kneed and that seems very pronounced currently - more so
> than usual it seems to me, but perhaps just because I am staring at her
> more looking for any clue.
>
> I do not know the symptoms, nor treatment (if any?) for PEM?
>
> It may be wishful thinking, but she seemed stronger this morning. When
> we got her up, she took right off to go to her daytime pasture, and
> stayed up for several hours. Even this afternoon, grazing out in the
> yard, she seems much stronger in body and spirit....but still cannot
> rise on her own, tho she is trying more than she has the past several days.
>
> Thanks for your help Steve.
> Janice in NW GA
posted by Chaddo at 4:08 PM
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