Re: [AlpacaTalk] worming, etc was Re: Merry Morning
hi Heather - what kinds of problems have you heard about vitamin shots? You know me, I'm always looking for information
Wendy
DreamWeaver Alpacas
BC
----- Original Message -----
From: Heather Zeleny
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] worming, etc was Re: Merry Morning
I hope that some people who do have to do the M-worm injections will
speak up! From what I've read recently on the chat sites is that
Dectomax is not as effective as Ivomec. And actually, Dectomax isn't
really effective for 6 weeks, it doesn't really "take effect" for 2
weeks, but then after that it works for the following 4 weeks.
We do use Ivomec occasionally but thankfully we don't have M-worm here.
For vitamins, we prefer oral pastes to injectables. I've read too
many stories about major problems after vitamin shots.
I don't know the answer to your question about Safeguard pellets, we
haven't used them in years. When necessary, we use the drench.
Now to the fun discussion! The new cria! Definitely don't let her
keep running from you. I start halter training the crias as early as
possible, in fact I like to put the halter on the newborn as soon as
they're dry! We had a really skittish and feisty girl born last
summer (also black!), but after I started halter training her she
became much calmer and approachable.
Oh, finally the placenta. We used to worry about disposing of them,
but now we leave them and the turkey vultures come and take care of
them in no time. We haven't found that they attract coyotes or other
predators. I don't think they're here long enough! I'm not sure about
the size question. Of course when the amniotic fluid drains out, they
look smaller. :) And shrinking as they dry stands to reason.
Congrats again on your new black girl! So exciting!
Heather
On Jan 3, 2009, at 11:46 AM, houckj@aol.com wrote:
> <<<<Since she's already 4 days old, the umbilicus ought to be ok,
> especially with the goldenseal dip. I hate to admit, sometimes we
> don't get the dip done, and we haven't had problems because of
> that.>>>>
>
> Well that's a relief to hear! I didn't really do a dip with the
> goldenseal tho. It was a very diluted spray leftover from spraying one
> of my girl's ears. It happened to still be out there so I grabbed it.
> Most of it just rolled off as she was squirming around. But it has
> been
> covered up with the coat since evening 2, so I am hoping it is ok in
> there. What would it look like if it is not?
>
> <<<<I would reconsider your M-worm strategy, though. From what I've
> heard
> lately, Dectomax isn't considered as effective as Ivomec, and it
> should be administered every month without fail. Safeguard is not
> effective against M-worm at all, it's only for intestinal
> parasites.>>
>
> Hmmmm. That is totally different from what Dr Evans says in his
> manual.
> He says that Ivermec only is good for 4 wks (and stings), but Decto
> is good for 6wks and doesn't sting???? I also recall Marty McGee
> saying
> that Ivermec stings when I was at one of her clinics. My feed store is
> ordering Dectomax for me first thing Mon AM (there have been no orders
> over the holidays). The smallest bottle I can get is 100ml which will
> last me 1-2 yrs for my small herd (depending on whether I just give in
> the winter or year round. According to Doc Evans Nov-Feb is the
> highest
> risk time so that is what I ahve been trying to focus on, but here
> it is
> Jan already, sigh. And with all the rain I am concerned the snail
> population is likely way up, and there have been a lot of deer around
> their pastures this fall, more so than usual.....in my blueberry
> field:-(. I am counting on those ducks and guineas to take care of the
> snails, but am not comfortable totally relying on that. I am going to
> get start with the injections as soon as I can get the supplies in. I
> need more needles as well and have to go back and look up that long
> conversation we had about sizes so I can purchase when I go to pick up
> the Dectomax. I wonder if Ivermec is less expensive? That would be a
> consideration for me. I remember Marty said if using Ivermec to use a
> different syringe to draw up (and leave it in the bottle) and a fresh
> one to inject so the liquid won't be on the tip of the needle and
> cause
> that stinging as soon as the needle pierces the skin. I actually do
> that anyway with the Dectomax.
>
> And yeh, I know that Safeguard is only for intestinal parasites. I
> guess I was just commenting that I need to do both and the baby has no
> residual protection as mama hasn't rec'd either. I am planning to
> switch over to granules but still haven't had time to sit down and
> figure out the dosage, and how much to purchase. I assume you dose the
> same as the paste? At 5 times the horse dosage? and for 5 days? Do
> they eat it ok mixed in with their food? I feed mine separately so I
> would know noone is eating someone elses. I am just concerned that my
> picky eaters might turn up their noses if they can taste the granules?
>
> Can some of you that use the Safeguard granules tell me what dosage
> you
> use - how much for how long? My feed store has it in bulk for cattle -
> 22.7 mg per # and it is $1.65 per#. So I need to know how many #s to
> buy. It is used at a rate of 1# per 1000#cattle, according to the feed
> store.
>
> Also, I will be pricing the Ivermec vs Dectomax first thing Mon AM.
> Would the Ivermec be given at the same dosage as the Dectomax? Dect is
> given at 1CC per 50-70#. I don't have a scale to get an accurate wt,
> just a tape. Mine guys all range in the low 100#s - like 105# to 140#
> the last time I measured them. So I generally just give about 2cc to
> them all every 6 wks; a tad more to the heaviest one and a tad less to
> the smallest one. I think tho given how late a start I am getting this
> winter, I will work to dose them once a month for the rest of the
> winter
> anyway.
>
> <<<<So exciting to have a new cria! Who do you think the sire is,
> then?
> Oooo, that reminds me, I have to get my boy registered soon!
>
> Best wishes to you, and congratulations!
> Heather>>>>
>
> Thanks Heather! It really is exciting - especially to have one *I*
> don't have to feed and hopefully won't have to bury. And to have a
> GIRL
> WOOHOO! I only have the one stud, so he has to be the daddy LOL. He
> is quite small. I have had him for about 3 or 4 yrs but he is fairly
> shy and retiring. The girls have been dominating him all along. I
> guess he finally figured out how to woo this girl :-).....but they
> never
> let on and I didn't have a clue. I have seen him chase her around a
> good bit, but have never seen her stop running from him. I have never
> ever seen him even look at my Allie girl. She is the head of the herd,
> and my first alpaca, since my previous stud died 2 yrs ago. He is just
> SO fascinated with this baby. It is like he can't believe he actually
> did it! He stays right with mama and baby nearly all the time. I never
> saw my other stud do this.
>
> Warmly, Janice
> PS Since I have never had a baby be so fearful of humans before
> what is
> the recommendation? Spend more hands on time - or less? I am torn
> between wanting one that is easier to handle than the ones I bought as
> adults and clearly were never handled vs wanting to respect their
> space
> and desire to be left alone. I am wondering if the skittishness is
> because there were no humans around for the first several hours of her
> life? Usually I am right there, handling the baby immediately as I
> usually have to stimulate and rub down with a towel to dry off and get
> off the rest of the placenta adhering to various parts. This was
> clean,
> dry and up and running by the time she was discovered. And the
> placenta
> was much smaller than I am used to seeing. Do they shrink up as the
> hours go by? Oh, also what do you all do with your placentas? Being an
> organic gardener my first thought was to bury it in the garden. But
> after the first baby years ago my vet said not to do that, that there
> was no way to bury it deep enough to not attract coyotes; he also said
> to get it out of the pasture asap for the same reason. So I have just
> been bagging and putting in the truck (covered) to take to the dump
> with
> the rest of my trash. Seems like such a waste?
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