Re: [AlpacaTalk] ARI, Names and diacritical markings
to another thread, so here they are again (with a few more)!
MSA Hemingway's Tequila
MSA Hemingway's Bronson
MTF Haldane's Zebediah
Rusty Hemingway's Pride
Tequila Victor's Light
Via Hemingway's Comet
Northcoast Paulo's Pablo
Northcoast Hemingway's Victory
FNA Hemingway's Admiral
AMB Del Reino's Mr Mayday
Vaccoyo's Linden
Alianza Luisa's Marigold
Tell Vaccoyo's Secret
Avatar's Avalance
And, yes, there was Silver.com So sorry you lost him, Michelle!
It does seem as though the rules are being interpreted differently that
they used to be.
Heather
On Nov 25, 2008, at 8:11 AM, bbeatty656@aol.com wrote:
> Denise,
>
> The new software was rolled out in April 2007.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/24/2008 10:10:10 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
> D.Mossfritch@comcast.net writes:
>
> No Allison. It is not that the system is not "well defined. It is
> that the
> system has changed. Both Twist and Dancer, along with Remington's Last
> Hurrah! were registered using a different, older online system.
>
> Bruce, when did the registration system software change?
>
> Best,
>
> Denise
>
> Denise L. Moss-Fritch
>
> New Moon Alpacas
>
> Santa Clara, CA
>
> (The "other half")
>
> From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com]
> On
> Behalf Of Allison Moss-Fritch
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 8:28 PM
> To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] ARI, Names and diacritical markings
>
> Hi List,
>
> I can think of an example: We own a suri herdsire named: Bruxo's
> Twist &
> Shout....Literally that is how it appears on the certificate,
> complete with
> the apostrophe and the ampersand. I just pulled the certificate.
> We also own Condor's Fire Dancer....another apostrophe. So the times
> the
> naming protocols of the ARI database will or won't accept the
> apostrophe are
> not well defined, come to think of it!
>
> I used to breed dogs...we had a dog named "L'il Blax Tux'am'Beaux"
> (pronounced as Little Black (Tux) Sambo's)...now that would confuse
> the name
> guardians! Somebody else named him, I could not have put that tongue
> twister
> together!
>
> Allison Moss-Fritch
> New Moon Alpacas
> Santa Clara, CA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> On
> Behalf Of Heather Zeleny
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 7:31 PM
> To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
>
> Well I will have to set aside some time to find specific names for
> you,
> but how about <Breeder ID> Hemingway's <Offspring Name>, or <Breeder
> ID> Avatar's <Offspring Name>, or just Avatar's <Offspring Name> for
> starters...
>
> There is no end to that sort of naming convention and as an owner of
> herdsires I'd like to see get some recognition, I don't oppose this
> sort of naming. But to say that an apostrophe isn't allowed is just
> ludicrous.
>
> Heather
>
> On Nov 24, 2008, at 6:20 PM, bbeatty656@aol.com
> <mailto:bbeatty656%40aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Heather,
> >
> > Find me a specific example and I'll check it out.
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 11/24/2008 7:15:58 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
> > alpacatalk@westwindalpacas.com
> <mailto:alpacatalk%40westwindalpacas.com>
> writes:
> >
> > Well, wait a minute. I have seen many many many [<Breeder ID> Famous
> > Sire's Offspring Name] registered. That apostrophe after the dam or
> > sire's name is right in there in the animal name. What about that?
> >
> > Heather
> >
> > On Nov 24, 2008, at 6:01 PM, bbeatty656@aol.com
> <mailto:bbeatty656%40aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Denise,
> > >
> > > Why did I KNOW you would get me? :-)
> > >
> > > Excellent point for me to ask Darby about our system concerning
> the
> > > "English" special characters vs "other languages".
> > >
> > > I do believe we had to tell the system which character to
> disallow.
> > >
> > > VERRRRYYYYY interesting as Sgt. Schultz used to say.
> > >
> > > Bruce
> > > ARI Board
> > >
> > > PS: is their a herd ID in one of the Guns and Roses name?
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 11/24/2008 6:54:59 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
> > > D.Mossfritch@comcast.net <mailto:D.Mossfritch%40comcast.net>
> writes:
> > >
> > > Evening Bruce,
> > >
> > > Yup, so ARI has a rule that excludes "special characters and
> > symbols".
> > > However, why is that rule in place? Software design typically
> > excludes
> > > "special characters". For example, a typical listing might be
> > > invalidList =
> > > ",<.>?;:'@#~]}[{=+)(*&^%$£!`¬| -_" that I just pulled from an
> > > electronic
> > > (Acrobat) source. Different programming languages or database
> > > development
> > > systems will have slightly different lists.
> > >
> > > In the case of L'Etoille we are dealing with a non-English
> language,
> > > French.
> > > Probably good that Allison didn't try for a German name with an
> > > umlaut. My
> > > comment was just that, a comment, describing but another
> limitation
> > > all of
> > > us currently find when dealing with computer systems. Part of that
> > > limitation is built into the software and part is the programming.
> > >
> > > As for the "line in the sand", I can only laugh. A year ago when
> at
> > a
> > > west
> > > coast show I heard that Guns and Roses had just taken first place.
> > > However,
> > > that was a Huacaya in the two plus age group. Our Guns and Roses
> is
> > a
> > > Suri
> > > and was in the juvenile class.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Denise
> > >
> > > Denise L. Moss-Fritch
> > >
> > > New Moon Alpacas
> > >
> > > Santa Clara, CA
> > >
> > > (A Walden University doctoral student in Information Systems
> > > Management)
> > >
> > > From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > > On
> > > Behalf Of bbeatty656@aol.com <mailto:bbeatty656%40aol.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 4:18 PM
> > > To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
> > >
> > > Denise,
> > >
> > > I hate to bust your balloon but it really is a rule in ARI
> Policies
> > > and
> > > Procedures 04-04 "Alpaca Names"
> > >
> > > PROCEDURE
> > > Alpaca names must begin with a letter or digit and must have 35 or
> > > fewer
> > > characters including punctuation, breeder identifiers and spaces.
> > > Special
> > > characters and symbols will not be allowed.
> > > It is NOT poorly designed software. Naming of alpacas continues to
> > be
> > > a
> > > challenge in this industry but the naming rules are pretty clear
> and
> > > defined
> > > for
> > > all to see.
> > >
> > > Personally, I don't think you would be happy if ARI allowed me to
> > > take one
> > > of your registered animals names and insert an apostrophe or dash
> in
> > > the
> > > name
> > > somewhere and then accept it as valid for one of my animals. That
> > > would be a
> > >
> > > very slippery slope, once started.
> > >
> > > Where would YOU draw that line in the sand?
> > >
> > > Bruce Beatty, President
> > > ARI Board
> > >
> > > In a message dated 11/23/2008 9:34:37 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
> > > D.Mossfritch@comcast.net <mailto:D.Mossfritch%40comcast.net>
> <mailto:D.Mossfritch%40comcast.net> writes:
> > >
> > > Heather,
> > >
> > > I doubt lack of accepting an apostrophe is an ARI rule as much as
> > > poorly
> > > designed software. The error message I received said I had used
> and
> > > illegal
> > > character, the apostrophe, when identifying L'Etoille's name.
> > >
> > > For example, software design problems I frequently see is with a
> > > hyphenated
> > > married name. Insurance agencies, credit cards, even various
> levels
> > of
> > > government use software that is not designed to accept a hyphen
> in a
> > > surname. Another example is gender (or sex). Most software, even
> on
> > > printed
> > > forms, identify only two genders - female and male. The software
> > > designed by
> > > the medical device company where I work (radiation treatment for
> > > cancer)
> > > identifies six genders, including "unknown" and "not identified".
> A
> > > couple
> > > of years ago we heard a lot about Y2K, yet a two digit vs. four
> > digit
> > > date
> > > is minor compared to some software limits I see today.
> > >
> > > What concerns me is if the alpaca industry is to use EDPs, the
> > > information
> > > needed to make decision must be recordable. If we do not have
> > database
> > > software that will accept the data we wish to use to make
> decisions,
> > > how
> > > will we be able to make informed decisions?
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Denise
> > >
> > > Denise L. Moss-Fritch
> > >
> > > New Moon Alpacas
> > >
> > > Santa Clara, CA
> > >
> > > From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > > On
> > > Behalf Of Heather Zeleny
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 7:19 PM
> > > To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
> > >
> > > That's aggravating.
> > >
> > > You know, I think they're making up rules as they go, and
> enforcing
> > > them as they interpret them at any given time.
> > >
> > > Margaret Brewster, a Canadian breeder, has long registered her
> > animals
> > > as "Name" Brew, with Brew being her herd ID. Someone else wanted
> to
> > > use
> > > that sort of naming convention, and it was rejected by ARI. Only
> > after
> > > long back and forth and heated arguments did this other breeder
> > > prevail.
> > >
> > > I had a problem with my old farm name of "West Wind." Another farm
> > > reserved "West Winds" before I reserved "West Wind." Regardless of
> > the
> > > fact that I had reserved "westwindalpacas.com" and was an AOBA
> > member
> > > using the name of West Wind Alpacas since 2001. Everything was
> fine
> > > for
> > > years, until one day they discovered the similarity and revoked my
> > use
> > > of "West Wind" therefore prompting the changing of my farm name.
> > They
> > > did allow me to reserve West Wind Ltd, however.
> > >
> > > People using the same farm name as someone else really annoys me.
> > >
> > > Heather
> > >
> > > Heather Zeleny
> > > White Lotus Alpacas
> > > Creswell, OR
> > >
> > > 541.895.0964
> > >
> > > Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
> > > http://www.whitelotusalpacas.com
> > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlpacaTalk/join
> > >
> > > On Nov 23, 2008, at 7:05 PM, Denise L. Moss-Fritch wrote:
> > >
> > > > One additional element to L'Etoille's name. The software used by
> > ARI
> > > > does
> > > > not accept an apostrophe in an alpaca's name. (You can use an
> > > > apostrophe in
> > > > the three letter breeder name when used as part of an alpaca's
> > name,
> > > > but not
> > > > in the alpaca's name.) I called and spoke with an ARI
> > representative
> > > > when
> > > > registering L'Etolle. The best she could recommend was to "drop"
> > the
> > > > apostrophe in the registered name (from L'Etolle to L Etolle) so
> > the
> > > > system
> > > > would accept the name. So, while his name is L'Etolle, the ARI
> > > > registered
> > > > name is L Etolle.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > >
> > > > Denise
> > > >
> > > > Denise L. Moss-Fritch
> > > >
> > > > New Moon Alpacas
> > > >
> > > > Santa Clara, CA
> > > >
> > > > From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > > > On
> > > > Behalf Of Allison Moss-Fritch
> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:13 PM
> > > > To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Subject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
> > > >
> > > > Hi Folks,
> > > >
> > > > I've also been working at cria naming.it was not easy. I like
> > > strong,
> > > > one
> > > > word names that are memorable and imbued with positive
> > > > characteristics.
> > > > After a while it is hard to come up with something fresh.
> > > >
> > > > So, I bridged the language gap back to French, my first language
> > and
> > > > we have
> > > > a new little shining suri boy (our 12th in a row males) named,
> > > > "L'Etoille"
> > > > which means, loosely translated, "The Star" or "The Showman"..as
> > in
> > > > "movie
> > > > star", etc.
> > > >
> > > > So when, a few week later, this past Thursday we finally had a
> > very
> > > > similar
> > > > little suri girl in bright white curls.I was at a loss.but a
> very
> > > > happy loss
> > > > after 12 boys in a row.a GIRL, and healthy at that.
> > > >
> > > > She is, after much looking into mythology and through both
> > Christian
> > > > and
> > > > Wiccan name books for something which embodies her life
> > > > position.."Ismene"
> > > > which means among other things."Loyal Ruler" or "Named for
> Peace"
> > > The
> > > > name
> > > > has a long history, it appears in the cycle of Greek Plays
> called
> > > > Antigone.
> > > > Ismene is also a mythological daughter of a river god noted for
> > her
> > > > courageous actions.
> > > >
> > > > For a male and one black as night.I'd be tempted to name him
> > "Night
> > > > Trax".for the footprints left on a dark road on a moonless
> night.
> > > That
> > > > means he's got a path to leave for others to follow. Which is a
> > good
> > > > visual
> > > > for a leader
> > > >
> > > > Just a thought for when you are having a hard time coming up
> with
> > > > something
> > > > different!
> > > >
> > > > Allison Moss-Fritch
> > > >
> > > > New Moon Alpacas
> > > >
> > > > Santa Clara, CA
> > > >
> > > > From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > > > On
> > > > Behalf Of Wendy Edwards
> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 4:20 PM
> > > > To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
> > > >
> > > > hi Flossie - great minds must think alike eh? to me, the name
> > > > DreamWeaver
> > > > embodies so many of my feelings around my alpacas.
> > > > I also like the name of your farm - it sounds so peaceful
> > > >
> > > > Wendy
> > > > DreamWeaver Alpacas
> > > > BC
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Flossie Carmichael
> > > > To: alpacatalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:alpacatalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:alpacatalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:alpacatalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:alpacatalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:alpacatalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 2:07 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
> > > >
> > > > Wendy, I just looked at your farm name. I also have a male named
> > > Dream
> > > > Weaver. We call him Weaver.
> > > > Flossie
> > > > Flossie and Joe Carmichael GentleGrangeAlpacas Jamison,Pa.
> > > > Home-215-918-0339
> > > > Cell-267-614-9620 http://www.alpacanation.com/gentlegrange.asp
> > > >
> > > > To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogroups.comFrom
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.comFrom>
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.comFrom>
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.comFrom>
> > > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.comFrom>
> > > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%40yahoogroups.comFrom>
> > > > : wendy.edwards@shaw.caDate
> <mailto:wendy.edwards%40shaw.caDate>
> <mailto:wendy.edwards%40shaw.caDate>
> > > <mailto:wendy.edwards%40shaw.caDate>
> > > <mailto:wendy.edwards%40shaw.caDate>
> > > > <mailto:wendy.edwards%40shaw.caDate> : Sun, 23
> > > > Nov 2008 11:23:50 -0800Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
> > > >
> > > > My black cria is called "Raven's Royal Flush" after his sire
> Wild
> > > > Rose Royal
> > > > Flush, a very classy male, who passed away before Raven was
> > > > born.WendyDreamWeaver AlpacasBC----- Original Message -----
> From:
> > > > Flossie
> > > > Carmichael To: alpacatalk@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:alpacatalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:alpacatalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:alpacatalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:alpacatalk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:alpacatalk%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 23,
> > > 2008
> > > > 6:28
> > > > AMSubject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] cria nameI had a true black little
> > girl,
> > > > my
> > > > first after 3 years of all boys, born on the same exact day. I
> > named
> > > > her
> > > > Raven because of her color and if you could see her pronk, she
> > > > practically
> > > > flys! Black Magic? or something with Lucky in the name because
> you
> > > > sure are
> > > > lucky to have a black male. Flossie Flossie and Joe Carmichael
> > > > GentleGrangeAlpacas Jamison,Pa. Home-215-918-0339
> > Cell-267-614-9620
> > > > http://www.alpacanation.com/gentlegrange.aspTo:
> > AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
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> Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not
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> purpose
> of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be
> aired.
> It is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others
> with
> respect and civility.Yahoo! Groups Links
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> Message posts are the opinion of individuals posting and are not
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> purpose
> of this discussion group is to ensure that all points of view can be
> aired. It
> is the responsbilty of all individuals who post to treat others with
> respect
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>
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posted by Chaddo at 9:04 AM
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