[AlpacaTalk] Re: ARI, Names and diacritical markings
Hello Bruce, Denise, et al,
I have registered animals on ARI with an apostrophe just this
spring. Unfortunately, that beautiful female cria died just four
months later, however, I had no particular difficulty in using the
afore mentioned apostrophe. In point of reference, as a coding geek
many, many years ago, an apostrophe hasn't ever really been
designated as a special character. Perhaps there were names too
similar in structure to allow the name you proposed. It's a thought.
Mary Meacher
Walnut Valley Alpacas
Ballston Lake, NY
518.878.1061
--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
>
> Denise,
>
> The new software was rolled out in April 2007.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/24/2008 10:10:10 P.M. Mountain Standard
Time,
> D.Mossfritch@
>
> No Allison. It is not that the system is not âwell defined. It
is that the
> system has changed. Both Twist and Dancer, along with
Remingtonâs Last
> Hurrah! were registered using a different, older online system.
>
>
>
> Bruce, when did the registration system software change?
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Denise
>
>
>
> Denise L. Moss-Fritch
>
> New Moon Alpacas
>
> Santa Clara, CA
>
>
>
> (The âother halfâ)
>
>
>
> From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
[mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
> Behalf Of Allison Moss-Fritch
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 8:28 PM
> To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
> Subject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] ARI, Names and diacritical markings
>
>
>
> Hi List,
>
> I can think of an example: We own a suri herdsire named: Bruxo's
Twist &
> Shout....Literally that is how it appears on the certificate,
complete with
> the apostrophe and the ampersand. I just pulled the certificate.
> We also own Condor's Fire Dancer....another apostrophe. So the
times the
> naming protocols of the ARI database will or won't accept the
apostrophe are
> not well defined, come to think of it!
>
> I used to breed dogs...we had a dog named "L'il Blax Tux'am'Beaux"
> (pronounced as Little Black (Tux) Sambo's)...now that would
confuse the name
> guardians! Somebody else named him, I could not have put that
tongue twister
> together!
>
> Allison Moss-Fritch
> New Moon Alpacas
> Santa Clara, CA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
40yahoogroups.
> [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
40yahoogroups.
> On
> Behalf Of Heather Zeleny
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 7:31 PM
> To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
40yahoogroups.
> Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
>
> Well I will have to set aside some time to find specific names
for you,
> but how about <Breeder ID> Hemingway's <Offspring Name>, or
<Breeder
> ID> Avatar's <Offspring Name>, or just Avatar's <Offspring Name>
for
> starters...
>
> There is no end to that sort of naming convention and as an owner
of
> herdsires I'd like to see get some recognition, I don't oppose
this
> sort of naming. But to say that an apostrophe isn't allowed is
just
> ludicrous.
>
> Heather
>
> On Nov 24, 2008, at 6:20 PM, bbeatty656@.
> <mailto:bbeatty656%
>
> > Heather,
> >
> > Find me a specific example and I'll check it out.
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 11/24/2008 7:15:58 P.M. Mountain Standard
Time,
> > alpacatalk@.
> writes:
> >
> > Well, wait a minute. I have seen many many many [<Breeder ID>
Famous
> > Sire's Offspring Name] registered. That apostrophe after the
dam or
> > sire's name is right in there in the animal name. What about
that?
> >
> > Heather
> >
> > On Nov 24, 2008, at 6:01 PM, bbeatty656@.
> <mailto:bbeatty656%
> >
> > > Denise,
> > >
> > > Why did I KNOW you would get me? :-)
> > >
> > > Excellent point for me to ask Darby about our system
concerning the
> > > "English" special characters vs "other languages".
> > >
> > > I do believe we had to tell the system which character to
disallow.
> > >
> > > VERRRRYYYYY interesting as Sgt. Schultz used to say.
> > >
> > > Bruce
> > > ARI Board
> > >
> > > PS: is their a herd ID in one of the Guns and Roses name?
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 11/24/2008 6:54:59 P.M. Mountain Standard
Time,
> > > D.Mossfritch@
> > >
> > > Evening Bruce,
> > >
> > > Yup, so ARI has a rule that excludes âspecial characters
and
> > symbolsâ.
> > > However, why is that rule in place? Software design typically
> > excludes
> > > âspecial charactersâ. For example, a typical listing
might be
> > > invalidList =
> > > ",<.>?;:'@#~
an
> > > electronic
> > > (Acrobat) source. Different programming languages or database
> > > development
> > > systems will have slightly different lists.
> > >
> > > In the case of LâEtoille we are dealing with a non-English
language,
> > > French.
> > > Probably good that Allison didnât try for a German name
with an
> > > umlaut. My
> > > comment was just that, a comment, describing but another
limitation
> > > all of
> > > us currently find when dealing with computer systems. Part of
that
> > > limitation is built into the software and part is the
programming.
> > >
> > > As for the âline in the sandâ, I can only laugh. A year
ago when at
> > a
> > > west
> > > coast show I heard that Guns and Roses had just taken first
place.
> > > However,
> > > that was a Huacaya in the two plus age group. Our Guns and
Roses is
> > a
> > > Suri
> > > and was in the juvenile class.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Denise
> > >
> > > Denise L. Moss-Fritch
> > >
> > > New Moon Alpacas
> > >
> > > Santa Clara, CA
> > >
> > > (A Walden University doctoral student in Information Systems
> > > Management)
> > >
> > > From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
40yahoogroups.
> > [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
40yahoogroups.
> > > On
> > > Behalf Of bbeatty656@.
> > > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 4:18 PM
> > > To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
40yahoogroups.
> > > Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
> > >
> > > Denise,
> > >
> > > I hate to bust your balloon but it really is a rule in ARI
Policies
> > > and
> > > Procedures 04-04 "Alpaca Names"
> > >
> > > PROCEDURE
> > > Alpaca names must begin with a letter or digit and must have
35 or
> > > fewer
> > > characters including punctuation, breeder identifiers and
spaces.
> > > Special
> > > characters and symbols will not be allowed.
> > > It is NOT poorly designed software. Naming of alpacas
continues to
> > be
> > > a
> > > challenge in this industry but the naming rules are pretty
clear and
> > > defined
> > > for
> > > all to see.
> > >
> > > Personally, I don't think you would be happy if ARI allowed
me to
> > > take one
> > > of your registered animals names and insert an apostrophe or
dash in
> > > the
> > > name
> > > somewhere and then accept it as valid for one of my animals.
That
> > > would be a
> > >
> > > very slippery slope, once started.
> > >
> > > Where would YOU draw that line in the sand?
> > >
> > > Bruce Beatty, President
> > > ARI Board
> > >
> > > In a message dated 11/23/2008 9:34:37 P.M. Mountain Standard
Time,
> > > D.Mossfritch@
> <mailto:D.Mossfritc
> > >
> > > Heather,
> > >
> > > I doubt lack of accepting an apostrophe is an ARI rule as
much as
> > > poorly
> > > designed software. The error message I received said I had
used and
> > > illegal
> > > character, the apostrophe, when identifying L'Etoille's name.
> > >
> > > For example, software design problems I frequently see is
with a
> > > hyphenated
> > > married name. Insurance agencies, credit cards, even various
levels
> > of
> > > government use software that is not designed to accept a
hyphen in a
> > > surname. Another example is gender (or sex). Most software,
even on
> > > printed
> > > forms, identify only two genders - female and male. The
software
> > > designed by
> > > the medical device company where I work (radiation treatment
for
> > > cancer)
> > > identifies six genders, including "unknown" and "not
identified". A
> > > couple
> > > of years ago we heard a lot about Y2K, yet a two digit vs.
four
> > digit
> > > date
> > > is minor compared to some software limits I see today.
> > >
> > > What concerns me is if the alpaca industry is to use EDPs, the
> > > information
> > > needed to make decision must be recordable. If we do not have
> > database
> > > software that will accept the data we wish to use to make
decisions,
> > > how
> > > will we be able to make informed decisions?
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Denise
> > >
> > > Denise L. Moss-Fritch
> > >
> > > New Moon Alpacas
> > >
> > > Santa Clara, CA
> > >
> > > From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
40yahoogroups.
> > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
40yahoogroups.
>
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > On
> > > Behalf Of Heather Zeleny
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 7:19 PM
> > > To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
40yahoogroups.
> > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
> > >
> > > That's aggravating.
> > >
> > > You know, I think they're making up rules as they go, and
enforcing
> > > them as they interpret them at any given time.
> > >
> > > Margaret Brewster, a Canadian breeder, has long registered
her
> > animals
> > > as "Name" Brew, with Brew being her herd ID. Someone else
wanted to
> > > use
> > > that sort of naming convention, and it was rejected by ARI.
Only
> > after
> > > long back and forth and heated arguments did this other
breeder
> > > prevail.
> > >
> > > I had a problem with my old farm name of "West Wind." Another
farm
> > > reserved "West Winds" before I reserved "West Wind."
Regardless of
> > the
> > > fact that I had reserved "westwindalpacas.
AOBA
> > member
> > > using the name of West Wind Alpacas since 2001. Everything
was fine
> > > for
> > > years, until one day they discovered the similarity and
revoked my
> > use
> > > of "West Wind" therefore prompting the changing of my farm
name.
> > They
> > > did allow me to reserve West Wind Ltd, however.
> > >
> > > People using the same farm name as someone else really annoys
me.
> > >
> > > Heather
> > >
> > > Heather Zeleny
> > > White Lotus Alpacas
> > > Creswell, OR
> > >
> > > 541.895.0964
> > >
> > > Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
> > > http://www.whitelot
> > > http://tech.
> > >
> > > On Nov 23, 2008, at 7:05 PM, Denise L. Moss-Fritch wrote:
> > >
> > > > One additional element to L'Etoille's name. The software
used by
> > ARI
> > > > does
> > > > not accept an apostrophe in an alpaca's name. (You can use
an
> > > > apostrophe in
> > > > the three letter breeder name when used as part of an
alpaca's
> > name,
> > > > but not
> > > > in the alpaca's name.) I called and spoke with an ARI
> > representative
> > > > when
> > > > registering L'Etolle. The best she could recommend was
to "drop"
> > the
> > > > apostrophe in the registered name (from L'Etolle to L
Etolle) so
> > the
> > > > system
> > > > would accept the name. So, while his name is L'Etolle, the
ARI
> > > > registered
> > > > name is L Etolle.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > >
> > > > Denise
> > > >
> > > > Denise L. Moss-Fritch
> > > >
> > > > New Moon Alpacas
> > > >
> > > > Santa Clara, CA
> > > >
> > > > From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
40yahoogroups.
>
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
40yahoogroups.
>
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > > On
> > > > Behalf Of Allison Moss-Fritch
> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:13 PM
> > > > To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
40yahoogroups.
> > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > > Subject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
> > > >
> > > > Hi Folks,
> > > >
> > > > I've also been working at cria naming.it was not easy. I
like
> > > strong,
> > > > one
> > > > word names that are memorable and imbued with positive
> > > > characteristics.
> > > > After a while it is hard to come up with something fresh.
> > > >
> > > > So, I bridged the language gap back to French, my first
language
> > and
> > > > we have
> > > > a new little shining suri boy (our 12th in a row males)
named,
> > > > "L'Etoille"
> > > > which means, loosely translated, "The Star" or "The
Showman"..as
> > in
> > > > "movie
> > > > star", etc.
> > > >
> > > > So when, a few week later, this past Thursday we finally
had a
> > very
> > > > similar
> > > > little suri girl in bright white curls.I was at a loss.but
a very
> > > > happy loss
> > > > after 12 boys in a row.a GIRL, and healthy at that.
> > > >
> > > > She is, after much looking into mythology and through both
> > Christian
> > > > and
> > > > Wiccan name books for something which embodies her life
> > > > position.."Ismene"
> > > > which means among other things."Loyal Ruler" or "Named for
Peace"
> > > The
> > > > name
> > > > has a long history, it appears in the cycle of Greek Plays
called
> > > > Antigone.
> > > > Ismene is also a mythological daughter of a river god noted
for
> > her
> > > > courageous actions.
> > > >
> > > > For a male and one black as night.I'd be tempted to name
him
> > "Night
> > > > Trax".for the footprints left on a dark road on a moonless
night.
> > > That
> > > > means he's got a path to leave for others to follow. Which
is a
> > good
> > > > visual
> > > > for a leader
> > > >
> > > > Just a thought for when you are having a hard time coming
up with
> > > > something
> > > > different!
> > > >
> > > > Allison Moss-Fritch
> > > >
> > > > New Moon Alpacas
> > > >
> > > > Santa Clara, CA
> > > >
> > > > From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
40yahoogroups.
>
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > > [mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > > On
> > > > Behalf Of Wendy Edwards
> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 4:20 PM
> > > > To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
40yahoogroups.
> > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > > Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
> > > >
> > > > hi Flossie - great minds must think alike eh? to me, the
name
> > > > DreamWeaver
> > > > embodies so many of my feelings around my alpacas.
> > > > I also like the name of your farm - it sounds so peaceful
> > > >
> > > > Wendy
> > > > DreamWeaver Alpacas
> > > > BC
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Flossie Carmichael
> > > > To: alpacatalk@yahoogro
40yahoogroups.
> > <mailto:alpacatalk%
> > > <mailto:alpacatalk%
> > > <mailto:alpacatalk%
> > > > <mailto:alpacatalk%
> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 2:07 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
> > > >
> > > > Wendy, I just looked at your farm name. I also have a male
named
> > > Dream
> > > > Weaver. We call him Weaver.
> > > > Flossie
> > > > Flossie and Joe Carmichael GentleGrangeAlpacas Jamison,Pa.
> > > > Home-215-918-
> > > > Cell-267-614-
http://www.alpacana
> > > >
> > > > To: AlpacaTalk@.
> <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > > <mailto:AlpacaTalk%
> > > > : wendy.edwards@
> <mailto:wendy.
> > > <mailto:wendy.
> > > <mailto:wendy.
> > > > <mailto:wendy.
> > > > Nov 2008 11:23:50 -0800Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] cria name
> > > >
> > > > My black cria is called "Raven's Royal Flush" after his
sire Wild
> > > > Rose Royal
> > > > Flush, a very classy male, who passed away before Raven was
> > > > born.WendyDreamWeav
From:
> > > > Flossie
> > > > Carmichael To: alpacatalk@yahoogro
> <mailto:alpacatalk%
> > > <mailto:alpacatalk%
> > > <mailto:alpacatalk%
> > > > <mailto:alpacatalk%
> > > > <mailto:alpacatalk%
November 23,
> > > 2008
> > > > 6:28
> > > > AMSubject: RE: [AlpacaTalk] cria nameI had a true black
little
> > girl,
> > > > my
> > > > first after 3 years of all boys, born on the same exact
day. I
> > named
> > > > her
> > > > Raven because of her color and if you could see her pronk,
she
> > > > practically
> > > > flys! Black Magic? or something with Lucky in the name
because you
> > > > sure are
> > > > lucky to have a black male. Flossie Flossie and Joe
Carmichael
> > > > GentleGrangeAlpacas Jamison,Pa. Home-215-918-
> > Cell-267-614-
> > > > http://www.alpacana
> > AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
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