RE: [AlpacaTalk] Buying alpaca fiber?
Hi Heather,
Yes, I saw your post, very graceful.and a good idea.
Yes, most of us package our animals and do all that or expect a commission
to someone else who will do it for us. I don't think JP is charging more
than others.or he would not be able to stay in business. But we don't'
often break out the cost of the extras we package with our animals.and he's
making a business out of doing it for those who cannot do it for
themselves.so he has to place a price on it.
I'm about the same as you are and throw in the mentoring as "fertilizer" to
grow new customers and repeat customers.whatever one calls it.it does have a
value, though I have not quantified it.
Since I'm agisting (4 years now) our overhead is quite high as it is.and I
can't pass most of it through. But I've developed some good bloodlines and
some good animals.and I manage to compete.
When we finally get to our own place, our overhead will drop and we'll be
better placed on the market to make a bigger profit and stay in
business.meanwhile, it is all about earning a decent reputation..
I usually call 'em like I see 'em.and that means I occasionally mix it up
with someone else.
Let us hope that we can discuss both the aspects of brokering and the issue
of unbreedable males.at this site. It certainly needs our best minds put on
these problems if our industry can expect to ever solve them.
By the way, I'm broke or "alpaca rich and cash poor".if I had the $$...your
sale girl is pretty! If I were richer, I'd take her. I'm trying to get our
animals back down to 25 or less as we have some crias yet due this year.
The market is very quiet and I wish for both of us that it were not!
Allison
From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
Behalf Of Heather Zeleny
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 10:52 AM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Buying alpaca fiber?
Hi Alison,
I have apologized for the information that I passed on. I won't say who
gave me that figure, but it was a reliable breeder.
As I said, we also offer all of those services, time, breedings, we
handle alpacas for our friends and clients in shows, we offer free
breedbacks. We offer free agisting for up to 6 months on sales. I have
a substantial new buyer package that I offer. And the free transport on
major purchases.
Brokering an animal used to command a 10% commission. The broker of
course did all the advertising, everything one does to make a sale. If
the broker had the animal on their farm, the commission was raised to
15% to cover the cost of care and feeding.
So it looks like semantics to me.
I want $15,000 for lovely alpaca X. I offer two free breedings (at
least $1000 value, each), I pay transport to buyer's farm ($500 value,
easy), I offer 6 months free agisting (180 days x $2.50 = $450 value),
I take her to shows and handle her if buyers desire. There are
"professional" show handlers who charge $50 per class. I don't charge
that. The new owner/buyer does need to pay their entry and portion of
stalling at the show, though. We don't charge to transport their animal
to the show, either. That's just part of the service and support that
we offer.
According to one person's logic, I've actually made less than $12,000
on the sale of this alpaca after I deduct all of those freebies I
include. Oh, right, consulting, mentoring, farm visits, education, herd
health instruction, how much do I deduct for those services? You see,
it's just part of the business. We do it because it's the right thing
to do. True, it's maybe not too common anymore. But we do it and have
always done it. But according to some, my profit has gone down to next
to nothing!
I don't see it that way. As I said, it's semantics.
Heather
Heather Zeleny
White Lotus Alpacas
(formerly West Wind Alpacas)
Eugene, OR
541.895.0964
Holistic Farm and Elite Fleece
http://www.alpacana
http://tech.
On Aug 1, 2008, at 9:59 AM, Allison Moss-Fritch wrote:
> Hi Heather,
>
> I don't think your info on Jim Patrick is accurate.and I should know
> as I
> have discussed selling some of mine through Jim if I had what he
> needed.
> While there is a difference between list and sale prices.it is always
> the
> meeting of minds between two motivated folks who know industry prices.
> Perhaps you are not aware of Jim's costs either. I was not given
> prices
> that included any 50% fees.I set my own prices I wanted for my animals
> wholesale. If Jim then feeds, shows, advertises and packages with
> breedbacks.as well as all the other services and mentoring and
> general value
> added that he does.then what he can realize for his "values added"
> are what
> the market will bear.and that is not likely to be more than a regular
> brokering fee we'd pay anywhere.
>
> I think it would be a good idea if we limited our discussions of Jim
> to a
> site where he's a member, in all fairness. I don't think he's a member
> here, so far as I know. I know Jim well and I've never seen him other
> than
> honorable and ethical.
>
> So in sum I think we should return to a discussion of the real issues
> presented by our industry. We need to be talking about the 50 % of
> our cria
> crop that is male.and the 40% of our cria crop which is never going
> to be
> breeders.we owe them some fairness in their lives and some safe
> places to be
> an alpaca. So I think we owe Jim an apology and our public and buyers
> some
> education.
>
> Allison Moss-Fritch
>
> New Moon Alpacas
>
> Santa Clara, CA
>
> http://www.newmoona
>
> From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
[mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
> On
> Behalf Of Heather Zeleny
> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 9:20 AM
> To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
> Subject: Re: [AlpacaTalk] Buying alpaca fiber?
>
> I guess I missed most of the discussion regarding these pet male
> sales.
> Do we know for a fact that Fantasy Farm Tx is buying pet males from
> other breeders? Or are they their own pet males? They do have a large
> farm, over 45 females for sale, so I'm sure they get plenty of pet
> boys
> born every year!
>
> As for Jim Patrick, well, I don't care much for his scheme, either.
> Buying your animals at $.50 on the dollar and then he makes the
> profit... To me that says greed, the usual 10-15% brokerage fee isn't
> enough, he requires 50%.
>
> I just wish we had people queuing up to give US $1000 each for our pet
> boys!
>
> I absolutely agree about not selling alpacas at farmer's markets and
> livestock auction houses. And I just can't shake the bad feeling I
> have
> about that alpaca auction "house" in Nebraska... No online info, no
> catalog of lots for sale... I have the feeling it's run like one of
> those livestock auctions. I have heard too many stores about people
> buying animals there and then asking "What do they eat?" And I have
> even heard about people buying unweaned crias as pets, so they can
> bond
> with them.
>
> We get calls for mentoring and after sale support- from other people's
> clients! Of course we answer any question and offer our knowledge and
> experience, but hey people! We have good alpacas too, many ribbon
> winners! Good blood lines!
>
> Heather
>
> On Aug 1, 2008, at 8:58 AM, Allison Moss-Fritch wrote:
>
> > One of the questions I've been asking myself..as I gather that this
> > farm is
> > getting large shipments of very young weanling males.is which big
> > breeders
> > elsewhere are willing to take a $100 or so per baby and then ship
> > them off
> > to this sales farm that takes such poor care of them.
> >
> > That is a question that you also should ask: What are their sources
> of
> > registered pure blood alpaca males with fancy schmancy names.which
> > are truly
> > only fiber herd material and should never be sold through such
> venues
> > as
> > farmer's markets and livestock auctions.to the unsuspecting and
> > uneducated
> > public.
> >
> > Allison Moss-Fritch
> >
> > New Moon Alpacas
> >
> > Santa Clara, CA
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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