[AlpacaTalk] Re: alpaca down/can't rise - Dr Steve
<<<When did Dr. Anderson tell you this (to not give injected ivermectin
every month)? I think you are using advice that is way, way too old.
In the absence of monthly ivermectin shots, I would strongly suspect M
worm in your area. Get the Evans book and IMMEDIATELY start the
treatment for M worm.
If you don't know the treatment, then tell us and someone will get it
for you. Basically it is massive doses of oral fenbendazole
(Safeguard).
Start now.
Steve
Dr. Steve Hull>>>
Several years ago; saying that ivermec resistance is more problematic in the big picture than m-worm. He felt there were only 2 peak seasons for m-worm and I do not recall exactly - Jan/Feb and Sept/Oct I believe and that giving the monthly injections was creating ivermec resistance, and that in fact it is now a useless wormer in camelids..
I have to say I have done no more research on the matter since that time.
I do have Dr Evans book....but honestly that book is SO hard to find anything in. I just cannot believe he does not have an index in such a valuable resource. Very difficult when one is already distraught and trying to find info. But anyway, just always my gripe about that manual. I have been remarkedly problem free (as far as the alpacas go) for many years and have forgotten most of what I used to know from studying his book way too much (used to have one issue after the other with my alpacas) when it seemed I was pouring over it weekly.
I believe he put out a newer edition several years ago that was too pricey for me.
I had his first one that was for llamas and alpacas, then when he put out an edition just for alpacas I got that one as well.
But it sounds as the treatment protocol for m-worm has changed drastically from years ago, so without looking my guess would be that probably the one I have is out of date....at least for m-worm treatment info.
I did speak with him directly when my stud contracted what I felt sure was m-worm about 10 yrs ago (and my farm vet was treating the limping/dragging rear legs as a sprain.....so much for the vet care I have available to me around here) and he gave me the same treatment protocol Dr Pugh did - massive doses of ivermec and Safeguard...for 5 days I believe it was.
I did find the treatment protocol for m-worm last night on the internet and saw that it is now massive doses of Safeguard.....and I have plenty here - I buy the large bottle of liquid; and that ivermec is NOT effective as a treatment, just as preventative. I gave the ivermec injection when this first started, as I immediately suspected m-worm. But like I've said, after observation and thinking it thru, her symptoms just did not seem to line up with m-worm. So I gave no more until I could get a handle on what the real problem likely was. I try to first do no harm.
****So even tho it is a moot point at this time (if you didn't see my previous post, she passed at 5AM this morning), I do want to make sure I understand for future.
Wouldn't m-worm present in the rear legs first?
Wouldn't I have seen a gradual stiffening of the rear legs before she started going down in her front legs?
And the most important question at this point is - what should I do, if anything, for the rest of them? No one else having any problems at this time. If her symptoms are indicative of m-worm should I do the treatment for them anyway? It is about time for the fall Safeguard treatment anyway.....I'm not sure what the difference is in the usual 5 day course of Safeguard vs m-worm treatment. Amount, I would guess?.
One of the things I read last night on one of the many links I chased was that going down in the front legs is actually quite common and for the people who had the money to go to University and have lots and lots test run, no one ever came up with a dx or could find anything wrong thru blood test, titers, x-rays (for trauma), exams, etc. Most, at least the ones I was reading last night, just gradually got better over about a 3 wk period - some with no treatment, some with lots and lots of various blind treatments.
Even tho Allie is gone it is important to me to try to figure out what happened, so if I see it again I will know what to do. Hence the questions about m-worm symptoms....and why you immediately suspect that...even tho there was no rear leg involvement?
I read so much last night it is all a blur; but many suggest that a thiamin injection is the first thing they do when anything goes wrong. Should I have done that? I don't have any on hand, but can get a bottle from my horse vet (who will sell me meds if I ask for them) if you feel that would be an important to have on hand. Some suggested penicillian, also something I do not keep on hand. I do not know what the shelf life is and I have never needed it, but if I did I guess it would be good to have at the ready? Perhaps I should have taken her 103 temp as more serious, but going by Dr Evans book - "normal temp - 99 - 102.5", 103 didn't seem that startling to me. Perhaps a penicillan shot would have saved her? So many questions, so many doubts. What actually did her in when she did not appear sick at all?
Snake bite? She was lying in a bed of biting ants last evening. When I put my hands under her chest to lift her up they were biting me and really burned. She didn't seem to even notice. We brushed some off her, but she was not biting at them or herself, or rubbing like she itched. Did ant bites kill her? Push her over the edge? Just so many questions; so much sadness at not being able to save her.
I always keep banamine and ivermectin and Safeguard on hand.
What else would you recommend I always have on hand?
Thanks for your support and time. It is really appreciated.
Janice in NW GA
posted by Chaddo at 3:12 PM
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