Re: [AlpacaTalk] Re: Beet Pulp/Molasses
I'll add that we do not give CD&T. WE don't feed grain. Our pellets
have a small amount of organic, human grade wheat, oats, and barley
(end of run from Grain Miller's in Eugene, OR) solely to act as binder
to keep in pellet form.
While we don't need to give CD&T shots, we do need to give tetanus
only, available from your vet or some online livestock supply
retailers.
Here's my reading regarding entrotoxemia/
> From The Alpaca Book by Eric Hoffman and E. Murray Fowler, DVM:
>
> Pages 212-213
> Five types of Clostridium perfringens are known to affect animals. ...
> Alpacas are known to be susceptible to types A, C, and D. ... Type A
> enterotoxemia will be emphasized because it is a serious problem in
> South America and there is evidence that it has also occurred in North
> America.
> ...
>
> Prevention
> ... Vaccination for Type C & D is commonly available in North America,
> but, in the case of the alpaca, there is no confirmation that
> protection has been obtained. No suitable vaccine against Type A
> toxin is available.
>
> Type A enterotoxemia
> Type A enterotoxemia is the most serious disease of neonate alpacas in
> Peru. ... (***See above!)
>
> Type C enterotoxemia
> ...
> Experience with Type C enterotoxin in North American alpacas and
> llamas is of a different nature. No outbreaks have been reported;
> rather sporadic cases here and there. Infection is usually observed in
> the neonate of less than two weeks of age that is nursing a mother
> with high milk production.
>
> Type D enterotoxemia
> Type D enterotoxemia (overeating disease) has not been diagnosed in
> alpacas in Peru, and only sporadic cases have been reported in North
> America. Type D enterotoxemia is a serious disease of feedlot cattle
> and sheep, or in animals on lush pastures, or those being overfed with
> grains.
>
> http://www.vetmed.
> Vaccinations Commonly Used in Camelids
> CD/T
> ▪ Clostridium perfringens type C, D, and C. tetani
> ▪ A commonly used vaccine. C. perfringens has been implicated in
> diarrhea and sudden deaths in crias and occasionally adults. All
> animals are at risk for tetanus following infection primarily through
> wounds, castrations, etc.
> ▪ One common vaccination schedule is vaccination of adults yearly;
> pregnant females 4-6 weeks prior to parturition; crias at 3-4 months
> old and again 4 weeks later then yearly thereafter.1 Other protocols
> are also used and can be tailored to suit individual farm situations.
>
> This is new info since I last visited their site:
> Clostridium perfringens Type A Toxoid
> ▪ Recently developed vaccine for use in cattle.
> ▪ Evaluated at WSU VTH on alpacas
> 1. No vaccine site reactions were seen.
> 2. This product was NOT evaluated on pregnant animals.
> 3. Titers were measured and results indicated an immune response
> occurred but the degree of protection provided is unknown at this
> time.
>
>
> Jan Davis of Derwydd Alpacas says she does not give CD&T vaccines,
> last time I saw her respond to the CD&T question, probably for the
> reasons given above. I, for one, respect her wisdom, and since we
> don't feed grain, we have a very low risk of enterotoxemia.
>
>
> If you're mainly concerned about tetanus, which we all should be, it
> is available as a single vaccine through your vet or some online
> mail-order retailers:
> http://www.jeffersl
> CID=2&mscssid=
>
> And they also sell rabies vaccine:
> http://www.jeffersl
> CID=2&mscssid=
> I don't know if your state requires livestock to be vaccinated for
> rabies by a vet, but if not, this is the place to get your vaccine!
>
>
> By the way, Botulism protection IS NOT obtained through CD&T vaccine.
> How many times do I have to go through this? Botulism is Clostridium
> Botulinum, NOT Clostridium perfringens type anything, or even
> Clostridium tetani. Totally different strain of Clostridium
> altogether. Wikipedia gives a very nice tutorial on them all, look it
> up. There is no vaccine for Botulism. It is treated after diagnosis.
>
> NO protection to botulism is given through CD&T vaccines. The C in
> CD&T is for clostridium perfringens type C. Type C. The D is for
> clostridium perfringens type D. The T is for clostridium tetani.
> That's it, and that all it will ever be. The C is not for all types of
> clostridium, for the love of pete.
>
Heather
On Nov 14, 2008, at 8:10 AM, dreamwoodalpacas wrote:
> Janice,
>
> As nice as it would be to be 100% natural, there are 3 things that
> you CANNOT protect your animals from without a vaccine/anthalemic-
> Rabies, 2. Tetnus and 3. Meningeal Worm. Even if you skip the regular
> childhood vaccines for your kids, I'd still do tetnus, especially
> working on a farm. Just read some of Dr. Ruthann's posts on
> Alpacasite about how positively horrible and heart-rendering a case
> of tetnus can be and you'll understand. A bottle of CDT that is good
> for 50-100 doses is only $7 from PBS
> (http://www.pbsanima
> local/SoftCart.
> L+scstore+wbxt1534f
> initial shots (1cc, then 2cc a month later). And if your animals
> don't get the rabies shot (in most states it has to be a vet that
> does it) and there is even a possiblility of exposure, animal control
> will destroy your animals--it just isn't worth the +/-$45/yr. As for
> meningeal, I know you've heard plenty on that already.
>
> Cheers,
> Morgen
> Dreamwood Farm
> Claverack, NY
>
> --- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
> >
> > Thanks for sharing what you do June. I am so glad I asked this
> > questions and so glad for all the responses. It is great to hear
> what
> > everyone is doing and to learn. Obviously there is no one "right"
> way
> > to feed our guys. I have learned so much here and am fine tuning
> what I
> > have been doing.
> >
> > I too had 2 very scary choke incidents many years ago. Thank
> goodness I
> > did not lose either of them. That must have been just awful for
> you. I
> > am impressed that you can tube your guys. I have't had the guts to
> > tackle that. I love that you are vaccine free. I too run a
> natural
> > farm and homestead. We skipped vaccines this year....simply due to
> > being too busy and time getting away from me. But it has occurred
> to me
> > many times that I do not vaccinate my kids and I am often
> questioning
> > myself asto why I am vaccinating my livestock. The alpacas are
> cheap
> > enough, but doggone they charge a LOT for those horse
> > vaccines....
> Nile
> > without a vet precription.
> >
> > What do you do that helps you feel comfortable with not
> vaccinating? I
> > understand natural deworming, but don't know anything about vaccine
> > alternatives. For my kids I know I am comfortable with not
> vaccinating
> > because we homeschool and they don't go to day care or anywhere
> where
> > they are exposed to large groups of children. When we go to a
> class of
> > some sort I immediately use hand sanitizer on us all as we are
> leaving
> > the group! So maybe having a closed herd is all the protection you
> feel
> > is needed? But what about things that are carried in by wild
> life? I
> > would love to go vaccine free "on purpose" :-).
> >
> > At the time of my choke incidents I was feeding a llama pellet
> which was
> > the only thing available around here. And even for that I was
> having to
> > drive to the next town over....about 40 min one way....to Southern
> > States to get that, which I still have to do. Every feed store I
> would
> > go to around here I would ask what do the llama owners around here
> feed?
> > Sweet Feed was always the answer :-(. At least I knew better
> than
> > that. But llama pellets were long. After my 2nd choke incident I
> > started running the feed thru the blender before feeding. Very
> labor
> > and time intensive. But I wasn't going to go thru *that* again.
> It was
> > horrifying. I remember in Dr Evans manual he states that he thinks
> the
> > risk of choke is overstated and that he has never seen a loss from
> that.
> > After witnessing it twice I was NOT going to take a chance.
> >
> > Finally, after much asking, I got the Southern States coop to look
> into
> > getting alpaca feed. Dr Evans had told me that SS had purchased
> the
> > formula from him and they were making, but the one here didn't seem
> to
> > know anything about it. It took about a year, but finally we got
> on a
> > regular ordering schedule and I have used it ever since....about 3-
> 4 yrs
> > now. The pellets are much much smaller and I have had no problems.
> > They order it in especially for me as I am the only one around here
> > requesting it. The only problem I have encountered is they will
> not eat
> > their minerals. When I was grinding their feed up I was mixing the
> > minerals in and they were eating it all up; but with the pellets
> they
> > let the minerals fall to the bottom of the tray and don't touch.
> Now
> > mixing them in with the beet pulp they are once again, after all
> this
> > time, getting their minerals. I am thrilled.
> >
> > Thanks for sharing!
> > Warmly, Janice, jealous of your operation and all your various
> herds!
> > My dream :-)
> >
>
>
>
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posted by Chaddo at 9:17 AM
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