RE: [AlpacaTalk] Re: BBB and the Alpaca industry
We have since figured this out, a lesson well learn. When we purchased these animals on a two year finance agreement, we brought the animals home, no ARI certs because we were still paying for them. After one year we paid the animals off. It stated in our contract " Upon payment in full, delivery to Buyers by Sellers of the ARI Registration Certificate, properly executed of effectuate a transfer of ownership ot Buyers in accordance with rules and regulations of the ARI, and delivery of possession of the animal to the Buyer, then title to pass to Buyers." The farm did not have these animals titled in their name, the animals were still registered to the original farms, I contacted the original farms and was told they could not release the certiciates because the animals were still financed. Eventually, we were able to get the certificates thanks to the origianl owners.
Allison Moss-Fritch <aemoss17@comcast.
If a farm sells you animals it does not own, then it is a CRIMINAL as well
as civil matter.
It can be confusing because we normally think of registration and ownership
being the same, but they are two separate things legally.
If you mean it sold you animals for which it had not gotten the right to own
the registration papers, that is a different matter. That would be a matter
for ARI to help you with.
Are the animals on your farm (possession)
Do you have a bill of sale? (ownership)
Did they own (have physical possession and right of ownership) when they
sold?
Were the animals registered to someone else when you bought? Was the seller
NOT the registered owner? Then the registered owners have also been
defrauded.
I would contact the people who hold the registration papers.(registered
owners" ) if they are not the sellers.they can reregister the animals to
you.(cutting out the middlemen sellers) as you have proof that you paid the
purchase price. They cannot seek to have you repay them for the animals as
you are what is known as a "bona fide third party purchaser for value
without notice" . The law protects you from them.
But, now those "registered owners" would have a right to recover the monies
you paid to the "sellers" for themselves from those sellers. Because, if
the sellers sold animals registered to a third party as if they were in fact
registered owners.it is the prior, registered owners who have been defrauded
of monies which should have been theirs for the registrations. You, in
turn, have been defrauded out of the registration you should have had for
the payment of those animals.
Both of you have been defrauded by sellers.if that is the case. In that
situation, the fraud is a major felony given the cost of the animals. If
you can show to the DA that this has been a pattern of conduct which this
farm has perpetrated on several farms, including your own, then the DA may
want to criminally prosecute these folks for their stupidity and criminal
conduct.
Best Regards,
Allison
From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
Behalf Of Konnie
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 9:47 AM
To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
Subject: [AlpacaTalk] Re: BBB and the Alpaca industry
Thnak you for your response Allison,
We did eventually have to involve a lawyer, the issues we had with the
farm is that they sold us animals in which they did not own. It stated
in our contract that once the animals were paid in full we would receive
the certificates, we paid the animals in full and could not get the
certificates in a timely fashion, it took us almost a year of trying
before we contacted a lawyer. I went through ARI and AOBA to no avail.
We felt we could not go to our local alpaca orginaztion because this
farm is involved with some of the committees and they have made false
claims to the care in which I give my animals, which I have in writing,
I also have in writing the recommedation of a vet and other farms that
have been to our farm and seen our animals. But to fight a big farm is
like asking for a death sentence. It would be nice to have an neutral
party to help owners.
Konnie Miller
Kozy Kountry Alpacas
135 Dillon Road
Milton, TN
615-273-3019
www.kozykountryalpa
--- In AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
"Allison Moss-Fritch" <aemoss17@..
wrote:
>
> Hello RK Dreamin,
>
>
>
> First off, nice to meet you. Second, if you put a tagline and
name/address
> on your posts, we can address you more politely and also have an idea
of
> your locale, which is sometimes important in helping you or discussing
your
> circumstances. I don't know which state's laws apply here and that
might
> just be important.
>
>
>
> I don't know what area of the country you hale from. In some areas,
the
> local chapters of the AOBA will have an area wide group.(Like Calpaca,
for
> instance) The officers of those can sometimes give some assistance in
> getting you through a difficult time when there is a rough deal
between
> persons who are members. It would be private and informal, but it
might
> help.
>
>
>
> I'm a retired attorney and I'd be going to the courts if I could not
get
> someone to stand behind a contract. But not without first trying to
> negotiate some resolution short of suit. BBB in your area might just
be a
> good resource, so might be some of the granges, depending on whether
the
> farm which is being difficult is a member of any of those
organizations.
>
>
>
> AOBA as such does not presently have some investigative and
enforcement
> authority function set up for its members. Some breed associations
(ARI)
> (AKC) for instance, do have investigative and enforcement functions.
> Perhaps we need to work through AOBA to establish such functions.
>
>
>
> However, if none of that will help, you do have the right to enforce
your
> contract in court. Just as we have seen with AOBA's suit; if the party
who
> brings the suit wins, they usually get court costs awarded to them to
defray
> their own expense. As you may imagine, should they lose, they end up
paying
> those costs to the prevailing party, in many instances. So there are
some
> risks. Getting to a livestock industry savvy attorney and consulting
with
> her is a good start. Many attorneys offer FREE consultation
appointments.
> it is worth looking into.
>
>
>
> You are not very specific in saying what type of problem you are
having and
> what if any response the farm you purchased from has made. More
details
> would be appropriate in these areas.
>
>
>
> Also, I'd be writing a "position letter" which lays out my problem and
what
> I have attempted as a solution, asks them to take the step you need
from
> them and then lays out what will happen if they do not respond. You
don't
> have to send it by certified mail or get it notarized.just send it
first
> class, properly and completely addressed. Of course, keep a copy of
all
> correspondence, and the face of the envelope as well.
>
>
>
> I can show you how to word the letter so that if they fail to respond
you
> can make their inaction a trigger to the consequences that will happen
to
> them for their inaction. There are some tricks to the trade that one
picks
> up over the years. I can't be your attorney.I'm RETIRED.which means no
> legal advice or true legal work.law of the State Bar. However, I do
try to
> explain legal stuff for folks in this industry when they ask and
sometimes I
> can make generally useful type suggestions without crossing that line.
>
>
>
> Best of luck working out your problem, whatever it may be!
>
>
>
> Allison E. Moss-Fritch
>
> New Moon Alpacas
>
> Santa Clara, CA
>
> 408/248-3581
>
> http://www.newmoona
>
>
>
> From: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
[mailto:AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
On
> Behalf Of rk_dreamin
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 8:24 AM
> To: AlpacaTalk@yahoogro
> Subject: [AlpacaTalk] BBB and the Alpaca industry
>
>
>
> I have just recently read where a new alpaca owner purchased some
> alpaca and the selling farm is not standing behind their contract.
This
> upsets me for we had the same issues of breach of contract. It was a
> year long ordeal. Since our ordeal another new farm went through an
> unpleasant experience with the same farm. These farms and their ethics
> are not good for the industry and very discouraging for new farms. We
> did our homework and bought our animals from what we thought was
> reputable farm only to find out that was not so. Is there a BBB for
the
> Alpaca farms?
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Konnie Miller
Kozy Kountry Alpacas
135 Dillon Road
Milton, TN 37118
615-273-3019
www.kozykountryalpa
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posted by Chaddo at 10:23 AM
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